Jan animations shut down by hasbro/C&D

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

All I'm saying is I agree with you when you say the law sucks. We don't know what Hasbro does behind the scenes, so anything we can say about what they do is pure speculation. I'm sorry if my posts looked like they were attacking you. We're both part of the same fandom, we shouldn't be arguing like this. But I just don't see how Hasbro can be wrong for doing what they did. Using their characters is all they needed to have justification for sending a C&D. If someone made a fully animated movie that happened to have Spongebob, in even so much as a quick cameo appearance, and they didn't get permission from Nickelodeon, they would likely sue them for thousands, or more. Hasbro knows the law is unjust and they don't like to alienate their fans, which is why they always use C&D as their first option, if they feel a fan work is a big enough threat to their IP. You can be sure that most fan works are safe, because they aren't made with anywhere near the same quality as their episodes, or they're just comics, fanfics, or random clips used for a YouTube Poop or tribute video. Hasbro is on the fans side, but they still have to protect their IP. They are a business first afterall.

We agree on the fact that Hasbro has a legal right. What we DON'T agree on, is "Should they have made use of this right?" Does that sound right to you?

 

Regardless of this being right or not, let me put it this way: I didn't think that you are attacking me. You are attacking my argument which is what you should do if you disagree with me. In no moment I thought you were being disrespectful to me intentionally. And in no moment I thought that you are in some sort of "enemy field" because you are saying that Hasbro has the right to prosecute whoever they want to. Again... I agree that they have the right to do so, I just don't think that it was necessary.

 

Now, I don't even think that Hasbro (I'm speaking as if it was a single entity, which it really isn't, but a body of different departments that may not be really in touch with what is happening elsewhere) has the concept of "alienating the fans" and "issuing C&D letters" in the same train of thought. In the same note, whenever they decide that something needs to go down, any excuse is good enough if it satisfies the legal system regardless if it is fair or not. And by the way, I am sure that Hasbro is not the only one that does this.

 

But this is not important. My main point is that I don't think that Jan Animations was in any way a threat to their ownership of the IP. Something set off alarms and spinning red lights that set off their legal department (or contractors, as Fhaolan says might be the case) and now Button Mash is dead. Or in the least, put on hold indefinitely. 

 

You seem to believe that yes, Jan Animation was a threat because they used models from the show and because of it's quality. This is actually another problem, that is inherent to the law (which Hasbro uses to bully others into submission, even if it is with the intention of protecting something they think they'll lose). The problem is: who says what is permissible and what is not? As the situation stands, IP owner can point fingers screaming incoherent garbage known as legalese and them the whole universe is supposed to bow to their will.

 

And this is why I made my gun analogy: if someone gets shot, I don't blame the gun, or fact that guns exist; I blame the shooter.

 

Of course, if you believe that Hasbro is justified and that they would lose their IP because of Jan Animations' work and other fans, like in the other cases, Then that is your opinion and I don't hate you for that and I'll keep talking to you in other threads and agree with you if I agree with your opinion. I just think that you fell for their scare tactics and you are free to think what you will of me when I start using a animated gif I just found for my signature.

[Adachi 772]

We agree on the fact that Hasbro has a legal right. What we DON'T agree on, is "Should they have made use of this right?" Does that sound right to you?

 

Regardless of this being right or not, let me put it this way: I didn't think that you are attacking me. You are attacking my argument which is what you should do if you disagree with me. In no moment I thought you were being disrespectful to me intentionally. And in no moment I thought that you are in some sort of "enemy field" because you are saying that Hasbro has the right to prosecute whoever they want to. Again... I agree that they have the right to do so, I just don't think that it was necessary.

 

Now, I don't even think that Hasbro (I'm speaking as if it was a single entity, which it really isn't, but a body of different departments that may not be really in touch with what is happening elsewhere) has the concept of "alienating the fans" and "issuing C&D letters" in the same train of thought. In the same note, whenever they decide that something needs to go down, any excuse is good enough if it satisfies the legal system regardless if it is fair or not. And by the way, I am sure that Hasbro is not the only one that does this.

 

But this is not important. My main point is that I don't think that Jan Animations was in any way a threat to their ownership of the IP. Something set off alarms and spinning red lights that set off their legal department (or contractors, as Fhaolan says might be the case) and now Button Mash is dead. Or in the least, put on hold indefinitely. 

 

You seem to believe that yes, Jan Animation was a threat because they used models from the show and because of it's quality. This is actually another problem, that is inherent to the law (which Hasbro uses to bully others into submission, even if it is with the intention of protecting something they think they'll lose). The problem is: who says what is permissible and what is not? As the situation stands, IP owner can point fingers screaming incoherent garbage known as legalese and them the whole universe is supposed to bow to their will.

 

And this is why I made my gun analogy: if someone gets shot, I don't blame the gun, or fact that guns exist; I blame the shooter.

 

Of course, if you believe that Hasbro is justified and that they would lose their IP because of Jan Animations' work and other fans, like in the other cases, Then that is your opinion and I don't hate you for that and I'll keep talking to you in other threads and agree with you if I agree with your opinion. I just think that you fell for their scare tactics and you are free to think what you will of me when I start using a animated gif I just found for my signature.

I do think it was necessary for them to send the C&D though. It wasn't about flexing their legal guns to intimidate others. It was purely about protecting their rights to their property. If they don't use those rights, they'll lose them, so they have to go after breaches of their IP rights whenever they find them.

 

I see what you're getting at. You believe that Hasbro doesn't have to go after every quality animation that uses their IP I'm guessing, that it's not as big of a threat as it seems. I'm no expert on law, but the general consensus is that yes, they do have to flex their legal guns once in a while to tell those who use too many elements of their IP "look, I enjoy and respect your work, but please, back off". That's basically what they did with Jan Animations. They admitted that they were impressed by their work, but they politely asked them to stop, because their work was too similar to their own. In a perfect world, they would've let it slide, maybe even hired the creators into the company or licensed their IP to make a spinoff or something.

 

Valve uses a lot of gamer created content, but I believe that they have a whole different kind of copyright. Hasbro wants to be the only ones authorized to make shows with their characters and lore. They paid specifically for that right. For them to change their mind is going against the contract they made with the US Patent Office. Everything in life is ruled by contracts, whether we like it or not. If they don't seek out those who breach their IP, then they lose rights to their content. Valve on the other hand uses a more open contract (going into the realm of speculation here). They even made the engine for Half Life and other games freely available to developers to develop games, on the condition that any such works be released only on Steam.

 

The difference between Hasbro and Valve is Hasbro makes money selling toys to kids. Valve makes money by providing a top notch gaming experience. Hasbro wants full control over how their products are advertised. I think that's fair enough, and as long as they C&D evenly, going after all who use too much of their IP, then I don't see anything morally wrong with that. It's unfortunate, because some great works were lost like Fighting is Magic (it was revived and "finished", but never got the full 17 character roster) and Button. I don't think any great media should ever be wiped off the internet like that. And I do agree that maybe Hasbro could've come up with a compromise that would allow them to protect their IP, and keep the fans happy. So in a way, I do agree with what you're saying. What they did wasn't the best choice to make, but they made it so we all have to deal with it, but nothing is stopping us from writing to Hasbro and suggesting win win solutions that make everyone happy.

 

Edit: And there's one upside to Fighting is Magic being C&D'd. Lauren Faust herself is designing characters for a new project game. It's not gonna be ponies, but this game has her direct blessing and she is providing her own original characters, lore, etc, so the Mane 6 team no longer have to worry about legalese, because they're using the IP of Lauren Faust, who is working and collaborating directly with them. Maybe Hasbro could learn something from Faust

I'm beginning to think it's just me who thinks that using a character without permission is wrong!

There's fan art of everything. Most companies just deal with it. Do you think it's wrong for someone who likes to play Street Fighter 2 to make a fan drawing of Chun-Li, then post it on the internet? What about Pokemon fan art, fan fiction, etc. I think most fan art is harmless, as long as they give full credit to the company that inspired said fan art.

 

I could make a painting inspired by the Mona Lisa. Does that mean that people will appreciate the original any less? No, they'll see it as a modern tribute to a great classic.

 

Another thing, musicians borrow heavily from each other. But usually, there isn't any lawsuits, because most musicians believe in the freedom of expression. There was a rapper who used a theme from a video game or a cartoon or something as the intro for a rap song, but he never got sued. Hollywood is guilty of using the content of others as well. How many rehashes of classic movies are there now? One particular example comes to mind. The modern Willy Wonka movie. It made a lot of money, but almost everyone prefers the original over the rehash (although mostly because Gene Wilder is a comedic genius).

Edited March 23, 2014 by Ryudo

[Flake 6]

This thread in a nutshell.

 

Every darn humanbeing are thinking about money money money money money money..fking sore my a**.

 

If these things go on for like 20 more years. A revolution will start.

War and no cute little ponies and beauitful colour will exist anymore.

[Adachi 772]

This thread in a nutshell.

 

Every darn humanbeing are thinking about money money money money money money..fking sore my a**.

 

If these things go on for like 20 more years. A revolution will start.

War and no cute little ponies and beauitful colour will exist anymore.

There will always be room for cute little ponies with beautiful colors. Even if the rioters take out Hasbro, I feel that if there's a revolution, copyright as we know it will cease to exist. It will either be rebuilt from the ground up, or done away with, either way, someone will make a new MLP. The fandom is just too great to die, it can survive even a world crisis. And if Lauren Faust makes it through the revolution, maybe with the new copyright laws, she would have the legal right to do a reboot of the series, but done her way, the way it should've been (I feel the reason she quit production is due to creative differences with Hasbro, they probably kept replacing stuff from her original lore). Just like how the original creators of TMNT (or some other entity at least) did a reboot of TMNT that stayed closer to the original lore.

 

And if there is nobody who is able/willing to keep the series going, or start a similar series, it will always exist in the hearts of us fans. We have the power to keep the dream alive.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Ryudo

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

 

 

The fandom is just too great to die, it can survive even a world crisis.

 

Now I'm thinking about a Vault filled with bronies. Sounds like an experiment that Vault-Tec would do. 

[Adorkable 2,737]

I checked the C&D letter of Hasbro again, and something caught my eyes. Scootaloo was spelled as 'Scootalo', so I guess it maybe just an anti-brony troll breaching the love and tolerate law of bronies? But who knows?

 

It's actually a common mistake for Hasbro to misspell "Scootaloo". On the episode "Flight to the Finish", in the episode description her name is spelled wrong, I forgot how bad off it was, but it was noticeably wrong, lol.

 

Surely somebody has downloaded his videos and will reupload them to another site like DailyMotion. 

 

People have been re-uploading his videos in many places, earlier today on Twitter he was talking about how someone was using his name and putting his videos back on YouTube. That's definitely something you shouldn't do in one of these situations, especially using his name.

[lomk 20,663]

 

 

People have been re-uploading his videos in many places, earlier today on Twitter he was talking about how someone was using his name and putting his videos back on YouTube. That's definitely something you shouldn't do in one of these situations, especially using his name.

 

Oh I know it's wrong and I never said I agreed with reuploading someone else's video. I was just saying I'm pretty sure they can be found elsewhere. Using his name on the reuploaded videos is the worst thing someone can do, definitely. Especially with Shadyvox saying that Jan aspires to be a part of the MLP animation team one day. Definitely won't look good on Jan. 

[Adorkable 2,737]

Oh I know it's wrong and I never said I agreed with reuploading someone else's video.

 

I never said you did, sorry if it sounded that way. ^^"

[irondefender 57]

Copyright laws are crazy these days.

[Adorkable 2,737]

Copyright laws are crazy these days.

 

I know!

 

I've said it before, but I don't think they would have done it unless there wasn't any other way.

 

I'm more than sure that Hasbro knew that Bronies loved Jan and his wonderful animations.

 

So they probably knew it would rustle some jimmies if they sent the C&D.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think they would have done it unless they had to, like I said before.

 

Hasbro loves their fandom, just like we love the content they give us.

[lomk 20,663]

I never said you did, sorry if it sounded that way. ^^"

 

Nah it's cool lol no need to apologize

[cuteycindyhoney 13,306]

But that doesn't make much sense. If ''Hasbro'' has the legal right over everything that is MLP, then they also have the right to chose what can and can not be posted by fans.

There is no "IF" about it. Hasbro does own ALL legal rights to MLP:FIM. They invested millions in the creation of a cartoon and toy line. They DO have the right to chose what can and can not be posted by fans. That is why they sent Jan the C&D order. They decided Jan's fan animations were an infringement. It's that simple. They have every legal right to make that decision.

1)I have never meant someone that mistook fanwork for the real thing outside of maybe anon romhacks and really good PHYSICAL bootlegs. 

 

2)It's not not acting like spoiled babies to point out that copyright law is extremely outdated now that we're in the digital age and anyone can publish content. Consider many people have started doing fan projects and moved on to real careers from there(such as MandoPony doing music for the show and TheLivingTombstone being signed to a contract) we need to expand fair use to protect non-profit fanwork because doing so would encourage creativity by allowing people to safely play around with their favorite characters and works to hone their skills, as well as allow fans access to more content than the parent company could ever produce. 

 

3)Morally and ethically there's a huge difference between a labor of love created for free to entertain people and work being sold for money.

 

4)No one I've debated this with has ever been able to give me direct proof of fanworks hurting profits. I'd say the opposite is true because it's very discouraging to fans when you shit all over them after over three years being like "okay, we're cool with it" by turning around and stabbing them in the back via doing a 180 on that attitude.  

No one has to offer you proof. Hasbro owns ALL LEGAL RIGHTS to MLP:FIM. Like I've said before, they've invested millions of dollars to create an animated program and an extensive toy line tie-in. Because we're in the digital age and anyone can publish content, Hasbro is supposed to just abandon their legal rights? I stand by my comment of some fans acting like cry-babies over it. Hasbro pulled off something great, and everyone and his cousin has decided to jump on the bandwagon. Hasbro has every right to control this, and decide which they will allow, and which they'll send a C&D to. Hasbro is being far more tolerant to fan produced works than most other companies would. For years, FOX actively hunted down the author of every "X-Files" fanfic they could track down. They didn't just sent C&D's, they threatened to outright sue. Paramount was the same way with the Star Trek franchise for a long time. Both are finally easing up.

 

To sum up...Yes, it is childish to say "I like it MLP:FIM, so I HAVE THE RIGHT to do anything I want with it! Hasbro is just being mean and evil!" when infringing on Hasbro's copyrights. You DON'T have the right. Hasbro has all the rights to MLP:FIM. The neigh-Sayers have to get over their self important claims that they can just horn in on it any way they chose.

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

There is no "IF" about it. Hasbro does own ALL legal rights to MLP:FIM. They invested millions in the creation of a cartoon and toy line. They DO have the right to chose what can and can not be posted by fans. That is why they sent Jan the C&D order. They decided Jan's fan animations were an infringement. It's that simple. They have every legal right to make that decision.

No one has to offer you proof. Hasbro owns ALL LEGAL RIGHTS to MLP:FIM. Like I've said before, they've invested millions of dollars to create an animated program and an extensive toy line tie-in. Because we're in the digital age and anyone can publish content, Hasbro is supposed to just abandon their legal rights? I stand by my comment of some fans acting like cry-babies over it. Hasbro pulled off something great, and everyone and his cousin has decided to jump on the bandwagon. Hasbro has every right to control this, and decide which they will allow, and which they'll send a C&D to. Hasbro is being far more tolerant to fan produced works than most other companies would. For years, FOX actively hunted down the author of every "X-Files" fanfic they could track down. They didn't just sent C&D's, they threatened to outright sue. Paramount was the same way with the Star Trek franchise for a long time. Both are finally easing up.

 

To sum up...Yes, it is childish to say "I like it MLP:FIM, so I HAVE THE RIGHT to do anything I want with it! Hasbro is just being mean and evil!" when infringing on Hasbro's copyrights. You DON'T have the right. Hasbro has all the rights to MLP:FIM. The neigh-Sayers have to get over their self important claims that they can just horn in on it any way they chose.

 

I'm said multiple times, I'm aware they're in the LEGAL right. The issue I'm addressing here is that US copyright law is completely screwed and in desperate need of reform. I never said rights should be abandoned, I just said fanwork that's not for profit(or for very small profit such as commissions) should be protected because it encourages creativity and people to discover their talents.  

Edited March 24, 2014 by Shoboni

[Solid 1,327]

Use the power of disclaimers, just say that you don't own the original characters, they're property of Hasbro, blablabla things like that and 80% of the time you'd be fine.

[cuteycindyhoney 13,306]

I'm said multiple times, I'm aware they're in the LEGAL right. The issue I'm addressing here is that US copyright law is completely screwed and in desperate need of reform. I never said rights should be abandoned, I just said fanwork that's not for profit(or for very small profit such as commissions) should be protected because it encourages creativity and people to discover their talents.  

Just a question. How is STEALING another artist's styles and character designs encouraging or expressing creativity? Last I heard, that's called plagiarizing.

 

When you said "I'm aware they're in the LEGAL right.", that's pretty much the logical end of the conversation. You just acknowledged and admitted that you know Hasbro is legally correct in what they are doing. The fans producing the content Hasbro doesn't want, are legally WRONG. The C&D's are justified. If you don't like a law, you call your congressman and try to have him change it. You don't just totally ignore the law and hope for the best. 

 

I'll be honest. I'm nearly finished a ten part MLP:FIM epic clop parody. If Hasbro sends me a C&D, (Highly unlikely for a text story) I'll take it right down, no arguments or questions asked. I know they have the legal right to shut it down. Just as I know I would be furious if someone stole one of my many TOTALLY ORIGINAL stories or characters. I don't count any one of my THREE fanfics as me being creative. They're just for fun. That honor goes to the nearly one hundred totally original stories, situations, and characters I have created in my short stories (erotic literature, mostly) over the past ten years.

[Cimarronboy 248]

SLAGGIN HOOFERS! Why are they taking all the good stuff. Anpyony know if there are any petitions both for this and molestia? How dumb can hasbro be. All these parodies and sod are making them money by introducing more non brony friendly pony stuff.

[Jack Spades 162]

I say that we go on a strike. We keep taking this BS from Hasbro. They don't understand that plushies, fan animations, and ask Tumblrs are actually good and free marketing for the show. It's like we're sponsors for the show. It's dumb that they do this. They have made the same mistake as Nintendo has and look where they are now. They really have to look at how Jeb has handled the Minecraft fan videos and let's-plays. (And I hope someone stops Digibrony. He's really gone down the gutter with his reviews)

[PoniesPlease 365]

I don't really see what Hasbro has to gain from shutting these works down. 

 

If they're not making any kind of profits, then surely it's a good thing to allow them to continue what they're doing, seeing as no one really loses?

[Blackened 512]

I think it's worth noting (although it may have been mentioned previously) that in the C&D message, the word Scootaloo is misspelled.

[Technicolor_Pony 34]

wait... the Don't mine at night people?!

"what am I gonna do? "

[Adorkable 2,737]

SLAGGIN HOOFERS! Why are they taking all the good stuff.

 

 

I say that we go on a strike. We keep taking this BS from Hasbro. They don't understand that plushies, fan animations, and ask Tumblrs are actually good and free marketing for the show. It's like we're sponsors for the show. It's dumb that they do this. They have made the same mistake as Nintendo has and look where they are now. They really have to look at how Jeb has handled the Minecraft fan videos and let's-plays. (And I hope someone stops Digibrony. He's really gone down the gutter with his reviews)

 

 

I don't really see what Hasbro has to gain from shutting these works down. 

 

If they're not making any kind of profits, then surely it's a good thing to allow them to continue what they're doing, seeing as no one really loses?

 

I'm gonna try to multitask and tell you all at once. ^^

 

In a nutshell, if you looked a little further into the situation and legal facts, you'll find that if Hasbro didn't send Jan the C&D, then they seriously could have had a very strong chance of losing their copyright to MLP.

 

Know what that means?

 

No. More. MLP.

 

Know the worst part?

 

No more Twilight Sparkle </////////////////3

 

If Hasbro didn't do this, they would have been screwed.

 

I honestly don't think they would have done it if there was another way.

 

Hasbro loves the Bronies, and they wouldn't hurt us like this unless that absolutely had to.

 

Seriously.

 

I hope that helped clear up a few things. ^^

 

I think it's worth noting (although it may have been mentioned previously) that in the C&D message, the word Scootaloo is misspelled.

 

Hasbro misspells "Scootaloo" literally all the time.

 

In the episode "Flight to the Finish", they spelled her name wrong in the description.

 

They're silly. xD

[Nomadic 210]

@@Adorkable

 

Sorry not to sound rude, but it's not the copyright that they actually risk losing rather it's the trademark. They are two different things. Copyright is valid until the period of time which it is valid elapses. Trademark on the other does revert back to the public if it is proven that adequate steps have not been taken to protect the Trademark.

[Adorkable 2,737]

@@Adorkable

 

Sorry not to sound rude, but it's not the copyright that they actually risk losing rather it's the trademark. They are two different things. Copyright is valid until the period of time which it is valid elapses. Trademark on the other does revert back to the public if it is proven that adequate steps have not been taken to protect the Trademark.

 

I didn't understand a lot of that.

 

But okay. ^^ (\

[Adachi 772]

SLAGGIN HOOFERS! Why are they taking all the good stuff. Anpyony know if there are any petitions both for this and molestia? How dumb can hasbro be. All these parodies and sod are making them money by introducing more non brony friendly pony stuff.

Molestia perverted the image of MLP, I'm glad it was taken down, despite how humorous it was to some people.

[FluffyGoat13 375]

 

While I am not up-in-arms about Hasbro protecting their IP. 

y u no up in arms!?!? violence only way now! i go destroy copyright laws now!! they shall burn!!!