Who is stronger: Princess Luna or Princess Celestia?

[SBaby 660]

 

 

Or it could be the site's choice and not because the comics and show are in two different universes as you're saying.

 

The site split the two, because they ARE in two universes, AU (Animated Universe), and CU (Comic Universe).  If they were in the same universe, the events of both would be portrayed in each medium.  If you can show me where every instance in the comics is covered in the cartoon, then you will have proven your point.  Otherwise, you have no case.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

The site split the two, because they ARE in two universes, AU (Animated Universe), and CU (Comic Universe).  If they were in the same universe, the events of both would be portrayed in each medium.  If you can show me where every instance in the comics is covered in the cartoon, then you will have proven your point.  Otherwise, you have no case.

 

1. The op of this post never said only use show stuff so anything that is considered canon can be used.

 

2. Andy Price himself had Hasbro's word that the comics are canon

 

3. The comics and other licensed material are the b canon to the show's a canon apparently. As such they have no obligation to directly mention each other for business and story sake (You don't want to have to burden your a canon writers to learning stuff from the b canon that only certain members of the audience are going to know.)

 

4. I have shown that the show mentioned the ocs of Andy Price and Katie Cook in a MLP episode.

 

5. You still have no evidence to anything you have postured such as Luna having this hidden power that we've seen nothing to indicate it to be true while there's plenty of evidence in the Nightmare Rarity arc to indicate Luna received a major powerboost from the Nightmare Forces. Since you love to throw this 'use the show to be canon', how about you actually use it to prove your point instead as I've done my homework, now it's time you do yours instead of relying on a headcanon.

 

6. The Journal of the two sisters have shown that Celestia has studied harder and learned more magic than Luna who on the other hated to learn magic if it were difficult. She's likely a better flier too considering Celestia loved to fly.

 

Honestly this has been disappointing for me because no matter how many times I've shown and proven my point while you have said nothing for your case while attacking me ineffectually, you refuse to acknowledge that perhaps your favorite princess is not so powerful as it's apparent that you're motivated by this desire to see Luna rise above all the princesses simply because you wish to fulfill it, even to the point of ignoring all the canon material stating as such.

[SBaby 660]

attacking me ineffectually

 

Nobody's attacking you.  I just asked you to show where certain events in the comics happen in the show, and you haven't done that.   Instead, you're referencing the same things, which amount to coincidences and hearsay, and playing the victim whenever someone mentions something that you have no answer to.

 

Where in the show is the supposed 'entity' that you mentioned that possessed Luna?

 

When did the CMCs get captured by Chrysalis in the show?

 

And when did Rarity become Nightmare Rarity in the show?

 

If you can show me episodes names, and when in the episodes they happen, then you will have more/less proven your point.  Otherwise, you have no case other than hearsay from a writer for the comics.  Hearsay, because as I have mentioned numerous times, staff members have been contradicted too many times to take everything they say as law.

 

 

 

 

The Journal of the two sisters have shown that Celestia has studied harder and learned more magic than Luna who on the other hated to learn magic if it were difficult. She's likely a better flier too considering Celestia loved to fly.

 

 

I question the canonicity of this too, especially with what we learned in the Season 6 premiere.  It may have been written by one of the staff members who work on the show, but it's likely that this is a prototype concept that was never really implemented.

 

Of course, if it's brought up in the cartoon, it does mean Celestia is currently more powerful than Luna because she studied magic more seriously than Luna did.  But in a way, it's also an admission that had Luna studied magic as intensely as Celestia did, she would have been a force to be reckoned with (and would have potentially been more powerful than Celestia).  However, it hasn't shown up in the cartoon, so it's a moot point.

 

 

And honestly, it is pointless to even argue about all this, specifically for that reason.  Almost nothing you have mentioned has shown up in the cartoon, so it isn't canon to the show.

Edited April 3, 2016 by SBaby

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Nobody's attacking you.  I just asked you to show where certain events in the comics happen in the show, and you haven't done that.   Instead, you're referencing the same things, which amount to coincidences and hearsay, and playing the victim whenever someone mentions something that you have no answer to.

 

Where in the show is the supposed 'entity' that you mentioned that possessed Luna?

 

When did the CMCs get captured by Chrysalis in the show?

 

And when did Rarity become Nightmare Rarity in the show?

 

If you can show me episodes names, and when in the episodes they happen, then you will have more/less proven your point.  Otherwise, you have no case other than hearsay from a writer for the comics.  Hearsay, because as I have mentioned numerous times, staff members have been contradicted too many times to take everything they say as law.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I question the canonicity of this too, especially with what we learned in the Season 6 premiere.  It may have been written by one of the staff members who work on the show, but it's likely that this is a prototype concept that was never really implemented.

 

Of course, if it's brought up in the cartoon, it does mean Celestia is currently more powerful than Luna because she studied magic more seriously than Luna did.  But in a way, it's also an admission that had Luna studied magic as intensely as Celestia did, she would have been a force to be reckoned with (and would have potentially been more powerful than Celestia).  However, it hasn't shown up in the cartoon, so it's a moot point.

 

 

And honestly, it is pointless to even argue about all this, specifically for that reason.  Almost nothing you have mentioned has shown up in the cartoon, so it isn't canon to the show.

 

You're attacking my points here. Playing the victim because you still have utterly nothing to prove your case while I have plenty here but yet you're still insisting I have nothing. It's the equivalent of you saying you're winning despite launching no effective offense against your foe.

 

You're forgetting one thing but let me say it again the op never said comics weren't  allowed. Whether you like it or not, the comics are b canon so thus I can use them as I please here. Until you're the op himself, you can't change the rules here as you like because of your cherry picking antics.

 

They're all mentioned and done in the comics. Okay I'm getting tired of your incessant attempts at disproving this point of how the show doesn't mention despite how:

 

A. The comics themselves don't mention every episode that happens in the show. Why aren't you complaining about that too.

 

B. They operate separately in the timeline so as to not bother them with each other and to keep things in cohesion together to ensure the canon is at least stable. Also it helps to ensure writers aren't too overburden with learning both sources in writing an issue or episode for their respective media.

 

C. The comics are 'b canon'. That means it exists so long as the show makes no contradictions to the issue. The show does not need to make mention of the material nor vice versa in order for it to be canon.

 

D. A major comic book artist said that 'Hasbro' the company that monitors and determines everything both the show and comics have considers it canon. This is what drives me up the wall with your denial as you're denying word of a creator from a major employee that the comics are canon. As I have said before, Hasbros word >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a fan's wanton wish. There is definite proof the comics are canon by Hasbro. Their view is the only thing that matters whether you like it or not. You can try and deny it all you want but I'd take the word of a major comic book artist who has worked with Hasbro over a fan.

 

E. Equestria Girls exists too and we even have a character in Flash Sentry being shown in a S4 episode yet the show has done nothing to make any direct mention to them. Why aren't you attacking Equestria Girls in the same manner or is it because it would actually validate the point that the comics operate in their own separate timeline much like how Eqg does the same too.

 

F. A little tidbit to add. Remember how Babs Seed got her scissor cutie mark that was mentioned in the show? That was first established in the comics. So here's a direct reference the show made from the comics if the pony ocs of the major comic book artists aren't enough for you.

 

 

The only thing that is question in canon with the Journal of the Two Sisters is whether the Alicorn sisters were born alicorns. The rest is fine. This was explained over in EQD where Amy had to be dragged in to explain it: http://www.equestriadaily.com/2016/03/amy-keating-rogers-explains-her-ideas.html

 

As for Josh Haber, he was being coy and is letting fans decide for his own amusement about the whole thing and considering how it's worded. It could be argued it didn't removed it from canon as it can be explained they have no idea how to create an alicorn baby naturally. After all they were just babies so the fact the sisters have no idea can be explained that getting an Alicorn baby conceived takes some special circumstances to get it done.

 

Also in the S4 episode Castle-mania, it was shown that Twilight was busily reading a book called 'the Journal of the Two Sisters'. Thus it's still very much canon as the show itself mentioned it's existence.

 

Yet Luna didn't so thus whose fault is it that decided to be lazy with studying magic while her sister was busting her flank off trying to learn as much magic as she could?

 

You're just throwing antagonizing statements at my case and yet you have none of your own to really prove. Here's the thing, in a debate, it doesn't matter how many points you can prove or disprove on my end, if you have no case of your own to prove your points, all of your attacks and conjectures means nothing. Until you can actually have a case at how Luna is more powerful than Celestia that does not depend on some faulty and not similar analogy, I don't see any reason to agree with anything you have written against me.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Nuke87654

[Swifty 249]

Luna. She IS best princess.

I mean, just look at how powerful she looks here.

 

More powerful.

Not a serious comment, i just wanted to reply with a picture for fun.

Gosh, i have to write so much before i'm able to post. :0

[SBaby 660]

The comics themselves don't mention every episode that happens in the show. Why aren't you complaining about that too.

And frankly, I am getting tired of it. 

 

I'm not complaining about anything they do or don't show.  I'm simply saying that if it isn't shown in one medium or the other, it's because they are separate continuities.  That's not a complaint.  That's a fact.  You can't have two things be in the same continuity when major events don't exist in one or the other.

 

 

 

Until you can actually have a case at how Luna is more powerful than Celestia that does not depend on some faulty and not similar analogy, I don't see any reason to agree with anything you have written against me.

 

All you have shown so far is hearsay and coincidences.  Not one time have you shown anything that conclusively proves that the comics or any other non-cartoon medium is directly in continuity with the show.  

 

Let's put it another way.  If you have a DA who is trying to convict a suspect of murder because someone disappeared, and there is no body or weapon to show that a murder has occurred and only hearsay and coincidences, do you honestly expect that a Jury would convict them, or that a Judge would even allow it to go to trial?  Obviously, the answer is no (and if they do, they're not only incompetent, but any guilty verdict would be instantly overturned on appeal).

 

You haven't shown one piece of conclusive evidence that the two mediums are connected, yet you expect people to just lay down and take what you say as law, based on hearsay and coincidences.  It doesn't work that way, and you aren't helping your argument by repeating the same straw man arguments you've been making over and over again.

Edited April 3, 2016 by SBaby

[Guest]

I would wager Celestia is stronger simply by the fact that it's made clear that she is older and Luna has been banished for such a long time. I mean 1,000 years is a long time to hone your abilities on Celestia's half. As far as we know, Luna was imprisoned in a non physical form on the moon. Like sort of like being stuck in a stasis for 1,000 years. I mean already being older and more skilled then you throw in 1,000 years to practice and hone one's skills? I mean logically Celestia would have to be honing her skills over her rule because otherwise how could she keep Equestria safe?

 

So I think based upon that, I would say that Luna is substantially weaker.

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

I would wager Celestia is stronger simply by the fact that it's made clear that she is older and Luna has been banished for such a long time. I mean 1,000 years is a long time to hone your abilities on Celestia's half. As far as we know, Luna was imprisoned in a non physical form on the moon. Like sort of like being stuck in a stasis for 1,000 years. I mean already being older and more skilled then you throw in 1,000 years to practice and hone one's skills? I mean logically Celestia would have to be honing her skills over her rule because otherwise how could she keep Equestria safe?

 

So I think based upon that, I would say that Luna is substantially weaker.

 

That doesn't really hold water considering that Luna (as Nightmare Moon) dispensed with Celestia immediately upon her return to Equestria with seemingly little difficulty (given that nobody even noticed that Celestia had gone missing, so clearly there wasn't enough of a battle to attract any attention).

[Guest]

That doesn't really hold water considering that Luna (as Nightmare Moon) dispensed with Celestia immediately upon her return to Equestria with seemingly little difficulty (given that nobody even noticed that Celestia had gone missing, so clearly there wasn't enough of a battle to attract any attention).

We're talking about Luna, not Nightmare Moon. It was made pretty clear that Nightmare Moon was power given to her, so not her natural abilities.

 

Also we never actually "saw" her dispense Celestia. Actually, Celestia shows up literally at the end of the episode just walking in the door, so for all we know, Celestia just hid because she wanted the 6 of them to unite to defeat Nightmare Moon because she knew the elements were the only thing that could dispense the evil. She just magicks her way into the room via a light orb. She even goes on a monologue about how she "knew" that their unity was the only thing that could defeat Nightmare Moon.

 

So really it holds a lot of water because there is nothing that even confirms Celestia was dispensed, and more evidence pointing to the idea that Celestia hid so that the cast would unite and use the elements.

 

There was no evidence of a battle at all. No evidence that she was banished, for all we know Nightmare Moon showed up and Celestia disappeared and Nightmare Moon in her arrogance just claimed she had something to do with it because she is an egomaniac.

 

I would say this is a pretty sound argument. There is just as much evidence supporting it as there is supporting your theory would you not agree?

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

We're talking about Luna, not Nightmare Moon. It was made pretty clear that Nightmare Moon was power given to her, so not her natural abilities.

 

Nightmare Moon is an alter ego of Luna, if Superman can beat Zod in a fight then so can Clark Kent.  I have already made my points about the whole Nightmare Rarity arc in the comics so I'm not going to repeat them here, and I stand by my earlier position until somebody can prove otherwise.

 

Also we never actually "saw" her dispense Celestia. Actually, Celestia shows up literally at the end of the episode just walking in the door, so for all we know, Celestia just hid because she wanted the 6 of them to unite to defeat Nightmare Moon because she knew the elements were the only thing that could dispense the evil.

 

It's a fair point, but also a bit of a stretch to imagine that Celestia would simply abandon Equestria to its fate based on the hope that Twilight, who was entirely untested at this point (unlike during later crises), would rise to the challenge.  I guess we'll never know for sure.

 

 

 

So really it holds a lot of water because there is nothing that even confirms Celestia was dispensed, and more evidence pointing to the idea that Celestia hid so that the cast would unite and use the elements.

 

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that she just hid.  I fact, there is no evidence that anything happened to her at all barring her disappearance.  She simply disappeared when Nightmare Moon appeared, and then reappeared when Nightmare Moon reverted to Princess Luna, heck, if it wasn't for Luna's appearance then I'd suspect that they were both the same pony all along.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Concerned Bystander

[Guest]

 

 

Nightmare Moon is an alter ego of Luna,

 

Really? Because to me it looks like she was consumed by some black stuff and became Nightmare Moon. That's ignoring the comics which state that Nightmare Moon was created via an entity that existed...

 

 

 

if Superman can beat Zod in a fight then so can Clark Kent.  I have already made my points about the whole Nightmare Rarity arc in the comics so I'm not going to repeat them here, and I stand by my earlier position until somebody can prove otherwise.

 

Ignoring the comic, you have no evidence that Nightmare Moon is an alter ego. So you are standing by that which has no evidence.

 

 

 

It's a fair point, but also a bit of a stretch to imagine that Celestia would simply abandon Equestria to its fate based on the hope that Twilight, who was entirely untested at this point (unlike during later crises), would rise to the challenge.  I guess we'll never know for sure.

 

Sometimes risks must be taken, and that is part of being a ruler. I wouldn't say that's much of a stretch considering stranger things have happened. And while you state we won't know for sure, you stand by your unproven theory and assert that you will hold it until someone can prove otherwise, even though I just proposed a plausible explanation and pointed out you have little evidence supporting your own theory.

 

Face it, both of our theories are equally likely.

 

 

 

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that she just hid.  I fact, there is no evidence that anything happened to her at all barring her disappearance.  She simply disappeared when Nightmare Moon appeared, and then reappeared when Nightmare Moon reverted to Princess Luna, heck, if it wasn't for Luna's appearance then I'd suspect that they were both the same pony all along.

 

And likewise there is no evidence that she was dispensed either. So to claim my theory is wrong or even a stretch would in turn invalidate your own theory or also make it a stretch.

 

I would say that this discussion is at an impasse where neither side and prove their point any further, would you agree?

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

 

 

Really? Because to me it looks like she was consumed by some black stuff and became Nightmare Moon.

 

"but the bitterness in the young one's heart had transformed her into a wicked mare of darkness, Nightmare Moon."

 

That is a direct quote from the cartoon, and that to me says pretty clearly that the transformation came from within herself.

 

 

 

I would say that this discussion is at an impasse where neither side and prove their point any further, would you agree?

 

By and large yes, it is at an impasse.  I consider that the quote above, in conjunction with the complete omission of the Nightmare Rarity story, or any mention of external nightmare forces from both 'Luna Eclipsed' and 'Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep' is fairly conclusive that, in the cartoon continuity, Luna and Nightmare Moon are one and the same.  But clearly that isn't enough to convince you, and I have nothing additional to add to further strengthen my position.

[Guest]

 

 

That is a direct quote from the cartoon, and that to me says pretty clearly that the transformation came from within herself.

 

Or that it allowed her to be transformed. It's up for interpretation.

 

 

 

By and large yes, it is at an impasse.  I consider that the quote above, in conjunction with the complete omission of the Nightmare Rarity story, or any mention of external nightmare forces from both 'Luna Eclipsed' and 'Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep' is fairly conclusive that, in the cartoon continuity, Luna and Nightmare Moon are one and the same.  But clearly that isn't enough to convince you, and I have nothing additional to add to further strengthen my position.

 

But those episodes also made it clear that Nightmare Moon is created by an entity that lives inside Luna, therefore it is highly possible that it is not a part of her, but merely something that is housed inside of her, free to leave whenever it desires.

 

So no, it is not conclusive. Luna even refers to Nightmare Moon as a separate entity as she refers to it in third person.

 

That being said, it is not a matter of not "convincing" me it is a matter of your evidence can easily be refuted and interpreted in a different manner that is unfavorable to your argument and you have nothing that can prevent such interpretations.

 

My theory is just as "right" as yours, and you lack any "conclusive" evidence.

[weesh 690]

The fact that Celestia was able to defeat Nightmare Moon is potentially not conclusive TO ME because Nightmare Moon was blinded with rage, and Celestia used magic items to tip the balance, implying that they may have otherwise been equally matched.

 

But for the original question:

Physically, magically....or emotionally?

 

If I had to guess which were most likely to triumph over a random foe, I'd give the edge to Celestia, because she maintains her focus and ability while angry.  She is less likely to be emotionally compromised.  That could give her a huge edge.  In a future hypothetical fight between the two, emotional stability would absolutely be a factor.  

Edited April 3, 2016 by weesh

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

My theory is just as "right" as yours, and you lack any "conclusive" evidence.

 

The key word there being 'theory', whereas what I have stated is direct observation of the cartoon.  And your 'theory', has nothing within the cartoon to support it.

 

 

 

But those episodes also made it clear that Nightmare Moon is created by an entity that lives inside Luna

 

If you could point those bits out for me that would be great.  I can only find her blaming herself in the first person, even Twilight said nothing to absolve her of responsibility, saying only that she's not the same pony now.

 

It seems to me an insurmountable omission to not mention, when trying to console someone about their past crimes, that they were under the control of a malevolent external entity at the time of committing them.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Concerned Bystander

[Nuke87654 1,849]

And frankly, I am getting tired of it. 

 

I'm not complaining about anything they do or don't show.  I'm simply saying that if it isn't shown in one medium or the other, it's because they are separate continuities.  That's not a complaint.  That's a fact.  You can't have two things be in the same continuity when major events don't exist in one or the other.

 

 

 

 

All you have shown so far is hearsay and coincidences.  Not one time have you shown anything that conclusively proves that the comics or any other non-cartoon medium is directly in continuity with the show.  

 

Let's put it another way.  If you have a DA who is trying to convict a suspect of murder because someone disappeared, and there is no body or weapon to show that a murder has occurred and only hearsay and coincidences, do you honestly expect that a Jury would convict them, or that a Judge would even allow it to go to trial?  Obviously, the answer is no (and if they do, they're not only incompetent, but any guilty verdict would be instantly overturned on appeal).

 

You haven't shown one piece of conclusive evidence that the two mediums are connected, yet you expect people to just lay down and take what you say as law, based on hearsay and coincidences.  It doesn't work that way, and you aren't helping your argument by repeating the same straw man arguments you've been making over and over again.

 

Except again you're not presenting a case but attacking my points. Also your DA analogy is wrong as my evidences are the equivalent of presenting irrefutable photo evidence but yet folks don't want  to believe that is actually what is shown here because it didn't happened on video. You claim hearsay but yet I presented photographic evidence of the claim.

 

Connected, is Babs Seed's scissors cutie mark the show as mentioned in the episode Bloom and Gloom and actually shown in Made in Manehattan:

 

 

This was foreshadowed first in the comic Friends Forever issue #13:

 

 

If you want to question it, the comic came first as it was released in January last year compared to Bloom and Gloom being released in April of last year. Now answer me this, is this not the proof that the comics are canon to the show's timeline that you're looking for? The show has made a direct reference to a comic story with Babs Seed in that issue liking cool haircuts which resulted in Babs Seed being mentioned and shown in the show getting her scissors cutie mark.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Nuke87654

[Guest]

 

 

The key word there being 'theory', whereas what I have stated is direct observation of the cartoon.  And your 'theory', has nothing within the cartoon to support it.

 

You observed things and composed a theory based upon said observations, but those observations could be interpreted differently as I just pointed out.

 

 

 

If you could point those bits out for me that would be great.

 

She at times has referred to it as Nightmare Moon, or "when I was Nightmare Moon" not simply as "me" or "myself" strictly. Which means she is conflicted on if the entity is purely her or not.

 

 

 

I can only find her blaming herself in the first person,

 

Could easily be explained as conflict of one's self. When you become something so terrible you question if it was because you were controlled or if because it was who you always were.

 

 

 

even Twilight said nothing to absolve her of responsibility, saying only that she's not the same pony now.

 

Twilight is not inside Luna's head, so to say she doesn't fully understand the concept is not a stretch.

 

 

 

It seems to me an insurmountable omission to not mention, when trying to console someone about their past crimes, that they were under the control of a malevolent external entity at the time of committing them.

 

At the time, Twilight may not have fully understood what Nightmare Moon was or how it worked.

 

 

Once again: everything you have stated for your theory can be explained away as your interpretation of events. I'm not saying your theory is wrong, but to please stop asserting it as more correct than others when in reality you really have no strong concrete evidence to support it either way. Everything you've brought forward can be refuted in some capacity and all I am asking is to admit the idea that there is a possibility that you are incorrect and that it is not a minor possibility but an equal possibility.

[SBaby 660]

Except again you're not presenting a case but attacking my points. Also your DA analogy is wrong as my evidences are the equivalent of presenting irrefutable photo evidence but yet folks don't want  to believe that is actually what is shown here because it didn't happened on video. You claim hearsay but yet I presented photographic evidence of the claim.

 

You've presented a few select instances in the show where things have coincided with things in the comics, probably for aesthetic reasons.  Babs' Cutie Mark was likely something that the writers of the comics had advanced knowledge of, and wanted to get right, so the character's design wouldn't be different from her portrayal in the show.

 

But you're talking about the comics as if every single thing that happens in them is in continuity with the show because one or two things match up, and this simply is not the case.  You have shown a few instances where things have coincided with the comics, but that hardly proves the two are in the same universe, any more than having Batman and Superman in both the Prime and DCAU universes proves those two happen in the same universe.

 

That's what a multiverse is.  You have the same major characters, and you're free to do different things with them in one universe that would never happen in another, as long as the overall concept of the characters is relatively unchanged.  The mane six still act the same (or mostly the same) in the comics as they do in the show, but that doesn't mean they take place in the same universe (it certainly doesn't prove they take place in the same universe).  The rules don't magically change, just because it's My Little Pony we're talking about.

Edited April 3, 2016 by SBaby

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

 

 

Twilight is not inside Luna's head, so to say she doesn't fully understand the concept is not a stretch.

 

 

 

At the time, Twilight may not have fully understood what Nightmare Moon was or how it worked.

 

So despite fighting the nightmare forces in the comic, and seeing her friend possessed by the same, she has no idea of how it works?  How likely does that seem to you given what we know about Twilight?

 

 

 

Everything you've brought forward can be refuted in some capacity and all I am asking is to admit the idea that there is a possibility that you are incorrect and that it is not a minor possibility but an equal possibility.

 

I will quite happily admit the possibility if anyone can present any evidence for it that makes sense and is not either directly, or by omission, contradicted by the cartoon.  And so far, I have seen nothing that comes even close to convincing me.

 

Until a plot point in the cartoon directly relates to a commensurate point within the comics, then the only logical conclusion is that the two media represent different continuity streams.  Where the two are not directly linked, but do not conflict then it is perfectly right to accept the comic as a secondary canon source.  But when a storyline in the cartoon that not only could, but should have addressed a commensurate point in the comic, fails to do so, then it represents a clear intention on the part of the writers to keep the two separate.

 

When it come to the comics (and the EQG films incidentally) there is a clear assumption that the reader/viewer is familiar with the cartoon, as both of those examples rely on prior knowledge to fully make sense of the plot.  On the other hand, the cartoon makes no assumption at all that the viewer is familiar with either of the other media, to the extent where even relevant references, that would make an impact on the plot, are omitted entirely, changing the entire premise.

 

The bottom line is that within we comics we know that Nightmare Moon is a separate conscious entity that exists external to, and independent of, Luna, and in the cartoon we know that it was Luna's own temperament, and negative emotions that resulted in her transformation into Nightmare Moon.  Unless a subsequent episode of the cartoon reconciles this conflict then we must assume that these two media are not so intimately intertwined that they can be considered to be one one unified continuity.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

You've presented a few select instances in the show where things have coincided with things in the comics, probably for aesthetic reasons.  Babs' Cutie Mark was likely something that the writers of the comics had advanced knowledge of, and wanted to get right, so the character's design wouldn't be different from her portrayal in the show.

 

But you're talking about the comics as if every single thing that happens in them is in continuity with the show because one or two things match up, and this simply is not the case.  You have shown a few instances where things have coincided with the comics, but that hardly proves the two are in the same universe, any more than having Batman and Superman in both the Prime and DCAU universes proves those two happen in the same universe.

 

That's what a multiverse is.  You have the same major characters, and you're free to do different things with them in one universe that would never happen in another, as long as the overall concept of the characters is relatively unchanged.  The mane six still act the same (or mostly the same) in the comics as they do in the show, but that doesn't mean they take place in the same universe (it certainly doesn't prove they take place in the same universe).  The rules don't magically change, just because it's My Little Pony we're talking about.

 

Now that I actually pinned your argument for the a comics story never being mentioned in the show down, now you're switching to 'they exist in a multiverse,' as a crutch now despite you admitting that the show and comics writers have interacted on which to present or not? You're essentially admitting that I was right while still clinging to your belief that is somehow concrete despite you admitting that I was correct and can't refute it.

 

Really this is funny to me seeing that post.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Nuke87654

[SBaby 660]

Now that I actually pinned your argument for the a comics story never being mentioned in the show down, now you're switching to 'they exist in a multiverse,' as a crutch now despite you admitting that the show and comics writers have interacted on which to present or not? You're essentially admitting that I was right while still clinging to your belief that is somehow concrete despite you admitting that I was correct and can't refute it.

 

It's not a crutch.  It's a fundamental fact that has existed in franchises for decades, even before FiM existed.  Multiverses are a way for writers and artists to take characters and put them in situations that may differ from the situations presented to the audience in mainstream material.  Those universes are separate from the main universe of said franchises, unless there are instances where the two cross over (which only goes to confirm that they are different universes).  It has always been this way, and no amount of headcanon will change this.

 

Also, I never said there weren't subtle references in the show.  Not once.  What I said, is it doesn't matter if there are a few instances or coincidences where things look similar or are the same, because they are still separate universes.  I've explained the reasons why this is fact, and you refuse to address them.

 

Why don't you respond to my comment about the supposed 'entity' that possessed Luna and Rarity?  Oh, that's right.  Because it isn't in the show, so there's no answer to it, other than hearsay and baseless speculation.  Why don't you respond to my comment about Chrysalis kidnapping the CMCs?  Because it isn't in the show.  Why don't you address Nightmare Rarity?  Because that isn't in the show.  

 

Honestly, what dooms your argument is your failure to address three of the biggest events in the comics not appearing in the show, and instead your decision to use hearsay and coincidences as evidence, even though they don't amount to anything other than straw man arguments.  

 

I don't care about hearsay and coincidences when there are major world-shattering events that have happened in the comics that aren't covered in the show.  If they were in the same universe, these events would be there.  They would not be something that could be ignored.  It's as simple as that.

Edited April 3, 2016 by SBaby

[Nuke87654 1,849]

It's not a crutch.  It's a fundamental fact that has existed in franchises for decades, even before FiM existed.  Multiverses are a way for writers and artists to take characters and put them in situations that may differ from the situations presented to the audience in mainstream material.  Those universes are separate from the main universe of said franchises.  It has always been this way, and no amount of headcanon will change this.

 

Anyway, I never said there weren't subtle references in the show.  Not once.  What I said, is it doesn't matter if there are a few instances or coincidences where things look similar or are the same, because they are still separate universes.  I've explained the reasons why this is fact, and you refuse to address them.

 

Why don't you respond to my comment about the supposed 'entity' that possessed Luna and Rarity?  Oh, that's right.  Because it isn't in the show, so there's no answer to it, other than hearsay and baseless speculation.  Why don't you respond to my comment about Chrysalis kidnapping the CMCs?  Because it isn't in the show.  Why don't you address Nightmare Rarity?  Because it isn't in the show.  And it would be inconvenient for you to talk about them.

 

However, your failure to address three of the biggest events in the comics not appearing in the show, and instead choose to use hearsay and coincidences, is proof that they are separate universes, as far as the show is concerned.  

 

Except all of that is nothing but conjecture with no basis on your part. I actually went and dug up evidences to prove my point. You on the other hand are just throwing headcanons and theories around and acting as if they hold higher precedence than:

 

A. Direct photographic evidence of a major comic book artist stating Hasbro considers it canon.

 

B. A direct link of a comic story being referenced in the show.

 

C. A major show writer writing a canon journal out.

 

D. OCs of the comic artists from the comics being shown in the show.

 

E. The fact we have the EQG series coinciding with the show too so why can't the canon b comics work?

 

Frankly I'm busy with other stuff meanwhile and I grow tired of arguing with someone who clearly is set in their mind that they're right and no amount of convincing will say otherwise. Really, what's the point in arguing with you anymore.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Nuke87654

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

 

 

It's a fundamental fact that has existed in franchises for decades, even before FiM existed. Multiverses are a way for writers and artists to take characters and put them in situations that may differ from the situations presented to the audience in mainstream material. Those universes are separate from the main universe of said franchises, unless there are instances where the two cross over (which only goes to confirm that they are different universes). It has always been this way, and no amount of headcanon will change this.

 

It is exactly this sort of thing that prompted DC Comics to run the 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' story arc, because the multiple continuities had got so out of hand and muddled that they had to do something to try and restore some semblance of order to the multiverse by culling some of the threads through major character deaths and so on.

[SBaby 660]

Frankly I'm busy with other stuff meanwhile and I grow tired of arguing with someone who clearly is set in their mind that they're right and no amount of convincing will say otherwise. Really, what's the point in arguing with you anymore.

 

You want to convince me I'm wrong?  Alright.  I'll tell you how to.  It's really quite simple.

 

All you have to do is show me where in the show they directly battle the supposed 'entity', where in the show Chrysalis captures the CMCs, and where in the show they have to stop Nightmare Rarity.  

 

You do that, and I'll be convinced.

Edited April 3, 2016 by SBaby

[Nuke87654 1,849]

You want to convince me I'm wrong?  Alright.  I'll tell you how to.

 

It's simple.  All you have to do is show me where in the show they directly battle the supposed 'entity', and where in the show they have to stop Nightmare Rarity.

 

No hearsay.  No coincidences.  Nothing else.  Show me those two things, and that'll convince me.

 

In other words you want me to show a direct link that does not exist in the show. Okay, let me tell you why that is a bogus statement:

 

A. There's other evidences to support comics being canon to the show yet you want me to find one direct reference to a certain controversial storyline in the show to be convinced.

 

B. This is you cherry picking and moving goalposts around.

 

 

 

 

Frankly it's rather distasteful that I continue because you're refusing to listen to anything I say due to being very biased for Luna as you don't want your headcanon disproven. I feel you cannot be reasoned with no matter what I say and I do not wish to argue with someone who does not wish to learn anything that contradicts their viewpoints.