Are Celestia and Luna natural alicorns?

[Zekromic 1,054]

It seems like the royal sisters are most likely born alicorns and not immortal but simply highly magical beings that age slowly. What I would like to know is where alicorns even originate from and why they were made princesses in the first place. They weren't mentioned in hearth's warming eve with the other ponies or given much back story.

 

The name of the chapter book is 'Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell'. I haven't actually read it but I have skimmed some of the information from it on different sites.

 

You say there are more alicorns? Does the journal give any details about Celestia's and Luna's parents? Or indication where the other alicorns are? I haven't been able to get a copy myself you see and finding any valid, canonical information on this subject can be difficult.

Unfortunately, no other information apart of a simple mention of other alicorns existence is in the book. No parents, not what became of them, etc 

 

 

Oh wow. ^^

 

Sources please? If you don't mind.

 

Well, Faust wrote that a long time ago, and I don't exactly follow twitters. Anyway, the Journal of the Two Sisters, as already mentioned, also mentions Celly and Luna are alicorn-born. Not only that, it mentions the presence of other ones, but doesn't mention what became of them 

Edited November 18, 2014 by Zekromic

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,161]

Unfortunately, no other information apart of a simple mention of other alicorns existence is in the book. No parents, not what became of them, etc 

 

 

 

Well, Faust wrote that a long time ago, and I don't exactly follow twitters. Anyway, the Journal of the Two Sisters, as already mentioned, also mentions Celly and Luna are alicorn-born. Not only that, it mentions the presence of other ones, but doesn't mention what became of them 

 

Bolding that last part for emphasis. As was mentioned it definitely states or at least alludes to both Celestia and Luna being natural-born alicorns, and it also alludes to there being more of their kind.

 

Cadence & Twilight are just examples of non-alicorns who have ascended into that state of being that transcends their original purpose.

[Zekromic 1,054]

Bolding that last part for emphasis. As was mentioned it definitely states or at least alludes to both Celestia and Luna being natural-born alicorns, and it also alludes to there being more of their kind.

 

Cadence & Twilight are just examples of non-alicorns who have ascended into that state of being that transcends their original purpose.

I suspect that the reason they hold up information about those other alicorns in that book is because they might be planning to introduce more of them in season 5. I mean, that and the fact that two new alicorn dolls have been released. I know it's no guarantee they will show up in the show, like Skyla (so far at least), but Twilycorn and Rainbow Power did, so, it can't be ruled out either

[ShadowPhoenix 153]

I have this stinging headcanon that tells me Celestia and Luna were born Earth Ponies but their longevity is due to their connections with cosmic entities such as the Sun and Moon and because they were the first Alicorns.

 

I believe Cadance was originally a pegasus.

[Celli 4,338]

According to the Journal of the Two Sisters, they were indeed born Alicorns, and they age slower than other ponies. 

[lee4pony 0]

yet in series 6 Celesia herself   said that Flurry Heart was the first born alicorn. just sayin'

[cmarston1 5,959]

I could go either way with this.

I like to believe that they could be ascended alicorns who were around during the time of Starswirl the Bearded or before that who were originally unicorns who were tasked in raising and lowering the sun and moon as Heartswarming Even said that teams of unicorns used to do so.

But because of being so good at controlling the sun and moon they were able to perfect that type of magic and ascended to alicorns.

The reason that they lived for over thousands of years would because their magic lies in controlling celestial bodies.

But I am pretty sure that it was confirmed a while back that they were born alicorns or something like that.

[user1342342 143]

lol, this is a mess. If the two sisters we not born alicorns, then how can they live for thousands of years?

 

If they can live that long, Twilight will most certainly outlive her friends. They literally made Twilight into a pony god, and people wonder why that stirred up a river of shit. 

[Swifty 249]

After 5,5 seasons i guess we will never fully know. As long as nothing has been told in the tv series itself, the word of McCarthy, the comics or anyone/anything else are meaningless.

You have to understand that there is no time for such trivial things like that. Discord, Chrysalis, Spike, Sea Ponies and new characters like Starlight Glimmer are more important to work with.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Swifty

[ph00tbag 108]

Word of God, as well as the Journal of the Two Sisters, do indeed both suggest that Luna and Celestia were born as Alicorns. However, their origins are made unclear by actual main show events. Celestia says, of Flurry Heart's birth, "The birth of an Alicorn is something Equestria has never seen!" This is in direct reply to Rarity musing that Alicornhood must be earned. Luna adds, "It is beyond even our understanding." Given the context, it would take some semantic gymnastics to fit in an interpretation that they were born as Alicorns. So while a lot of secondary material has explicitly stated that they are Alicorns by birth, primary material heavily implies that they, like Cadence and Twilight, earned their status, rather than it being a birthright.

 

As it stands, primary material trumps secondary. Thereby, Celestia and Luna were not born as Alicorns. As to their longevity, I have a feeling Alicorns have, to a certain extent, the ability to choose the time of their passing. Celestia chose to live until her sister returned, but perhaps she and her sister may move on, which would explain why she groomed two new Princesses to take their place. In that event, Flurry Heart's birth would be something of a wrinkle in her plan. But this is all veering headlong into the realm of headcanon, by this point, so it might not be pertinent at all.

[forgottenprincess 0]

honestly, i am also pretty sure they were born alicorns, because they have been around for thousands of years and in the Flurry Heart episode,  they said this was beyond their understanding, but maybe their the same as humans... don't remember their birth hood. so they can't understand what she was... or how... I am pretty much sure they were born alicorns. Or at least that's what I would like to believe.  

[heavens-champion 1,905]

After 5,5 seasons i guess we will never fully know. As long as nothing has been told in the tv series itself, the word of McCarthy, the comics or anyone/anything else are meaningless.

You have to understand that there is no time for such trivial things like that. Discord, Chrysalis, Spike, Sea Ponies and new characters like Starlight Glimmer are more important to work with.

You saying Celestia and Luna aren't important?

[LyricaDreamy 43]

yet in series 6 Celesia herself   said that Flurry Heart was the first born alicorn. just sayin'

The first born alicorn in Equestria damnit. its not like Celestia is going to tell about her story

Word of God, as well as the Journal of the Two Sisters, do indeed both suggest that Luna and Celestia were born as Alicorns. However, their origins are made unclear by actual main show events. Celestia says, of Flurry Heart's birth, "The birth of an Alicorn is something Equestria has never seen!" This is in direct reply to Rarity musing that Alicornhood must be earned. Luna adds, "It is beyond even our understanding." Given the context, it would take some semantic gymnastics to fit in an interpretation that they were born as Alicorns. So while a lot of secondary material has explicitly stated that they are Alicorns by birth, primary material heavily implies that they, like Cadence and Twilight, earned their status, rather than it being a birthright.

 

As it stands, primary material trumps secondary. Thereby, Celestia and Luna were not born as Alicorns. As to their longevity, I have a feeling Alicorns have, to a certain extent, the ability to choose the time of their passing. Celestia chose to live until her sister returned, but perhaps she and her sister may move on, which would explain why she groomed two new Princesses to take their place. In that event, Flurry Heart's birth would be something of a wrinkle in her plan. But this is all veering headlong into the realm of headcanon, by this point, so it might not be pertinent at all.

Thats what Rarity says. she didnt know about alicorns. The Alicorn race are probally extinct .they didnt expect Flurry Heart to be born since Cadence was originally a pegasus ( but Shining armor is a unicorn? if they fuse you will get an alicorn right? though it probally has a small chance), Also Celestia cant choose her passing that would either make her a god or just totally perfect pony

[NeonCobalt 256]

Although I used to personally believe otherwise, as of the season 6 premiere, I'd say no. While you could make the argument that they were not born in Equestria, justifying the line Celestia says about Equestria never seeing one, I don't think that she would say "It is beyond even our understanding" if she herself were natural born. I find it extremely hard to believe that in the 1000+ years she's lived, she wouldn't have figured out how natural born alicorns work if she herself were one.

Edited September 5, 2016 by NeonCobalt

[MiniJinouw 0]

I think Luna and Celestia are not born Alicorns (i have not read the book or anithing else i juste see the show) i think that an alicorns age slowly and gain at firts ther wing horn or strengh then at some point the gain their Horseshoe and their colar necklace with their CM on it and slowly their mane and tail change

 

on the other hand we have the longevitie i don't think  that twilight will outlive here friende because the main 6 have all the power of friendship (the power of the alicorn Twilight) and i don't think normal pony live are short in the episode "Party Pooped" the list of planned birthday party for pinky family there a 500 year of party planned and that not shoking for the main 6 they just think that pinky have planned for a prety long time with juste taht i think a pony can at least live for century then luna and celestia who have lived for 1000 year have juste doubled their lifespan (it's not prty long ^^)

 

PS: I am not very sur of my English i think i have at least worst for the half of my word but i hope that my post make sence

Edited September 26, 2016 by MiniJinouw

[LyricaDreamy 43]

I think Luna and Celestia are not born Alicorns (i have not read the book or anithing else i juste see the show) i think that an alicorns age slowly and gain at firts ther wing horn or strengh then at some point the gain their Horseshoe and their colar necklace with their CM on it and slowly their mane and tail change

 

on the other hand we have the longevitie i don't think  that twilight will outlive here friende because the main 6 have all the power of friendship (the power of the alicorn Twilight) and i don't think normal pony live are short in the episode "Party Pooped" the list of planned birthday party for pinky family there a 500 year of party planned and that not shoking for the main 6 they just think that pinky have planned for a prety long time with juste taht i think a pony can at least live for century then luna and celestia who have lived for 1000 year have juste doubled their lifespan (it's not prty long ^^)

 

PS: I am not very sur of my English i think i have at least worst for the half of my word but i hope that my post make sence

"Horseshoe and necklace" what? lol i think they gain those sometime when they were crowned princesses

[KatonRyu 1,033]

I'm fairly sure they're naturally born alicorns. They said in The Crystalling that no alicorns have ever been born in Equestria, but that means nothing considering they founded Equestria and thus predate it. I still the The Journal Of Two Sisters as canon, so unless they definitively state otherwise, I'll continue to believe they were born alicorns.

[Disc0rded 1]

On 8/27/2014 at 5:09 PM, UnshapenConch51 said:

Were Celestia and Luna born Alicorns? (I would like to think so) or were they made similar to Twilight and Cadance.

 

Lauren Faust says they were born but the series isn't following her original ideas. Meghan McCarthy says Twilight won't outlive the other ponies, could this mean they may become alicorns or their life span increased? or are Luna and celestia natural born which is why they have a very long life span? 

 

I have my own opinions I just would like to know some others

In "The Crystalling part 1" Celestia admits that Equestria's never seen a naturally born alicorn before. I think that almost confirms they were born unicorns. Also, to the post immediately above that I don't know how to also add in since this sentence is an edit, Celestia and Luna did not found Equestria. We don't know when Equestria was founded, but from some language that's been used in other finales and premieres, specifically S2 and S4 premieres, I believe that Equestria was founded before either of them were born.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Disc0rded

[Orenda 127]

i'm a year late but idfc

Celeste and Luna are most likely not from Equestria, and cannot see their own birth.

I suggest you all watch this theory video

 

[Moony the Cat 3,702]

I dont know much about the Show or the lore, but i think Twilight said, that you have to earn the status of an Alicorn, meaning that you cant be born as one, but if that is the case, i have no Idea why Celestia and Luna are seemingly immortal, when the Staff says, Twilight wont outlive her Friends, that doesnt make much sense. Or one of these three things might happen, maybe she wont outlive her Friends because 1. All her other Friends will become Alicorns for their special talents as well, 2. They will finish the Show and they simply meant with not outliving her friends, that they wont show it and that the series will end before any of that could happen or 3., that Twilight might have to give up her Alicorn Powers, for a super emotional scene at the end or something. Or maybe she dies, thats also an Option. XD

Edited February 11, 2018 by Dune_Gosbil

[Tenebrae 14]

While it is never explicitly stated, the show pretty much tells us that no pony had ever been born an Alicorn prior to Flurry Heart. Rarity states that Alicornhood is something that must be earned (which Megan McCarthy also confirms).

Besides the Journal of the Two Sister is no longer canon. "Shadow Play" shows us that the show designers are perfectly okay with retconning several elements written in the book, hence I do not believe it is a valide source of information anymore.

To answer the question: NO

[Castle Bleck 19,350]

6 minutes ago, Tenebrae said:

Besides the Journal of the Two Sister is no longer canon. "Shadow Play" shows us that the show designers are perfectly okay with retconning several elements written in the book, hence I do not believe it is a valide source of information anymore.

 

All that Shadow Play retconned from The Journal was the Tree Of Harmony's origin.

 

Furthermore, Horse Play revealed that The Journal's "Before Celestia and Luna, Star Swirl and these other guys moved the sun and the moon" part is still canon.

[Tenebrae 14]

2 minutes ago, A.V. said:

 

All that Shadow Play retconned from The Journal was the Tree Of Harmony's origin.

 

Furthermore, Horse Play revealed that The Journal's "Before Celestia and Luna, Star Swirl and these other guys moved the sun and the moon" part is still canon.

The very fact that something that big was retconned makes the canonicity of the rest of the Journal of secondary value.

Horse Play does indeed use elements from the book (which I enjoyed). Though they did change one aspect in that it is specifically mentioned that it was only Starswirl and 5 other Unicorns while in the Journal it was Starswirl + a dozen unicorns (correct me if I am wrong). I am aware this sounds like nitpicking though.
The show creators can still make use of it as reference material for future episodes (as they have just done) but we also know that they can and will change the events to their liking.

[Senko 459]

My personal headcannon has always been Luna and Celestia were born humans and turned into Alicorns when they came to Equestria. They didn't transform like Twliight and Cadence they always were one or the other but they weren't born Alicorns either. As for why they stayed if the price of magic, flight and the apparent flexability of Gumby is turning into an Alicorn I'd take it too. In fact I'd be strongly tempted by etiher Pegasi or Unicorns and if I knew I was going to this particular world I'd even be tempted by an offer that involved being turned into a blank flanked earth filly in the cutie mark crusaders year during season 1. Its just such a brighter world than ours. Of course I feel all the pony races are descended from humans who fell through a wardrobe somewhere so long ago they've forgotten they every were anything else due to the sheer amount of human touches in their culture. Like referring to things as hoof stiched when they use their mouths or magic. Still that's another topic.

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

I dunno... hey @Alexshy can you come over here? I need to see if that horn is glued on or not... what?

Anyway, this is one of those questions I am assuming the show will never fully answer and we will just have to rely on supplemental information and the bits and pieces we have been back and forth fed over the seasons to make sense of. The whole Flurryheart thing throws a wrench in a lot of it, and it is up to the fans to decide if written word has any bearing on the cartoon.