Is improving or removing a character's flaws really a good thing?

[Cwanky 17,755]

Well this got me thinking. I know a lot of people, myself included, can often be critical of the characters in the show, especially the Mane 6, but not just them. There always seems to  be a push to try and make a character better and remove the bad parts we don't like from characters. Examples include but are not limited to:

 

Rainbow Dash being too cocky, shallow and a bully

Fluttershy being a pushover and unreasonable at times

Pinkie Pie being insensitive and lacking the respect of others

Spike being selfish and a jerk

Rarity being shallow, greedy and neglecting her sister

Applejack being overprotective and stubborn in general

Twilight obsessed with being "the hero," not knowing her priorities, and overthinking things

 

The list goes on.

 

Now notice I'm not pointing out plot flaws that affect characters, like Mary Sue, or poor representation of a character. Regardless of poor writing, these traits are all often deliberately built into the Mane 6 and others, regardless of disagreeable we may find them.

 

There's been the issue of "lesson" episodes notably found in Season 4, where characters learn their lessons and return to their true selves, but this is different. The elements we know already exist within each character. Think Fili Vanilli, Applebuck Season or Lesson Zero and numerous others. All aim at fixing these flaws within each character.

 

But is this what we really want? Sure it'd be nice to see a more modest Rainbow and a more understanding Pinkie, and villains and other plot devices could fill the gap left behind. But without some inherent flaws, where would our characters find their struggles and interact with others? Frodo didn't learn to trust his friends when he needed them overnight, and Walter White didn't conquer his inner demons overnight and become a successful drug lord.

 

After all, isn't it the flaws that make these characters more than just namby pamby ponies?

[Buck Testa 5,505]

That is an interesting point: How do you show character development without removing what makes them an interesting character?

 

The answer is what flutters calls "baby steps." No one gets over their flaws entirely and sometimes we slip no matter how much we learned about ourself, but its the acceptance of these flaws and the active persuit to better yourself that shows true growth.

 

In my opinion the show captures this concept pretty well.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,879]

Rarity being shallow, greedy and neglecting her sister

 

That's not really a flaw because Sweetie Belle puts just as much into it as Rarity does, except when Powell writes the episode - but that shouldn't count, because Powell has proven time and time again she can't portray any of these characters inline with canon and past behavior for shit

 

It's just sibling bickering, like most siblings do.. I don't really see how that's a flaw, or neglection, really

 

 

And no. Taking out these flaws would make them bland, lifeless, flat characters who wouldn't be engaging to watch at all. It'd be like G3 - tea parties and happiness all the time without much conflict or character development. 

 

They should improve the flaws until there's no need to improve the flaws anymore, and then FiM should end at that point That's how I view it.

[Christmasy Britty 2,553]

I think the flaws are what make the ponies interesting personally, these characters are no longer blank slates but actually have personalities that make them relatable to us, we have problems and they have problems too so its nice to see that instead of there being completely happy characters there are characters that behave irrationally

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

If you remove the flaws out of the characters, you get something called a Mary Sue. Then the characters become completely perfect, lifeless, boring card board cutouts. The characters should yeah still learn lessons about their flaws, but not get their flaws completely eliminated to the point where it kind of deteriorates their character. 

[Christmasy Britty 2,553]

If you remove the flaws out of the characters, you get something called a Mary Sue. Then the characters become completely perfect, lifeless, boring card board cutouts. The characters should yeah still learn lessons about their flaws, but not get their flaws completely eliminated to the point where it kind of deteriorates their character. 

exactly what I meant chikorita no one likes a mary sue

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Most of these "flaws" are the most prevalent traits of the character. How is removing these a good thing? Also, people seem to think that traits they don't like = bad character. Uh, no. Flaws make characters real, compelling, and endearing (of course if those are the only traits, you have a problem). The people complaining about characters not being perfect should go and watch Dora or something, because you clearly can't handle actual entertainment.

[Shanks 10,817]

It depends on how far and how fast you are going to do it. If you remove all or most character flaws than they become Mary Sues but if you don't have character growth by them overcoming challenges than the show becomes stale and repetitive. There needs to be some kind of balancing act and what it is depends on the character in question and the overall direction of the story.

[SparklingSwirls 21,601]

I think that removing them altogether is a bad thing, but I think it's good to improve them in order to increase character development. So yeah, it goes both ways.

Edited September 5, 2014 by SparklingSwirls

[Jeric 46,884]

This is only a problem if the writing becomes poor and extends past all possible internal conflicts. When the Hero ends her Jouney ... the story should be done.

 

And Rarity isn't greedy

[GreyScholar 1,584]

 

That's not really a flaw because Sweetie Belle puts just as much into it as Rarity does, except when Powell writes the episode - but that shouldn't count, because Powell has proven time and time again she can't portray any of these characters inline with canon and past behavior for shit

I am going to have to disagree, at least when it comes to Inspiration Manifestation and Sleepless in Ponyville.

 

The first being the best portrayal of Spike and Rarity together I have seen since Secret of My Excess, while the second showed a sibling conflict quite well and with the writers involved offering Luna to relate with Sweetie Belle in a way that allows her to adviser the little filly.

[paradoxical 1,735]

It depends on how far and how fast you are going to do it. If you remove all or most character flaws than they become Mary Sues but if you don't have character growth by them overcoming challenges than the show becomes stale and repetitive. There needs to be some kind of balancing act and what it is depends on the character in question and the overall direction of the story.

 

The show is quite good at that balancing act (in general).

[ghostfacekiller39 23,879]

I am going to have to disagree, at least when it comes to Inspiration Manifestation and Sleepless in Ponyville.

 

The first being the best portrayal of Spike and Rarity together I have seen since Secret of My Excess, while the second showed a sibling conflict quite well and with the writers involved offering Luna to relate with Sweetie Belle in a way that allows her to adviser the little filly.

I think you mean "For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils", not "Sleepless in Ponyville"

 

Which, Dave Polsky wrote that episode, not Corey Powell "Inspiriation Manifestation" was also a dual-written episode between Powell and McCarthy, and the latter has been able to get Rarity's character down pat in the past

 

Also

 

The show is quite good at that balancing act (in general).

^This

 

The characters of MLP have a wonderful balance of flaws and amazing attributes giving them an ability to feel realistic, connect with the viewer, and remain entirely interesting Removing the flaws would be a bad thing, but improving them provides the development that keeps us attached from season to season

[Nulln 755]

I can't recall a time when Fluttershy was ever unreasonable.

 

But you can't just take out the flaws.  Then the characters would have no way of bettering themselves, and they'd be boring.  I was gonna say something else, but my mind just drew a blank o____________________o

[CubeMan123 4]

No because characters usually need flaws to appear more human and interesting.  Without flaws it's very hard to relate to them.  If you remove one flaw, you need to replace it with a new one.  

[Jeric 46,884]

 

 

If you remove one flaw, you need to replace it with a new one.

 

 

Yes replace the flaw by creating or revealing a new internal conflict or evolve the existing one somehow.

 

For example, AJ is stubborn. She learns to let other people help her in Applebuck Season. In Season 4 she again acts overprotective of both the orchard (Bats!) and her sister (Somepony to Watch Over Me). That inability to see another person's perspective is another form of stubbornness. 

 

I guess what I am trying to say is that good character growth isn't linear. 

[GreyScholar 1,584]

I think you mean "For Whom the Sweetie Belle Toils", not "Sleepless in Ponyville"

 

Which, Dave Polsky wrote that episode, not Corey Powell "Inspiriation Manifestation" was also a dual-written episode between Powell and McCarthy, and the latter has been able to get Rarity's character down pat in the past

Also

Ah, well th episode with Rainbow Dash and Scootaloo was also good I feel as it allowed bonding between the two... though Lauren Fausr did say Rainbow Dash would not have made a very good big sister so on could argi she was still out of character podsible.

 

Also as I know some have complained about it, I say nothing wrong with how Sweetie Belle and Rarity were handled in that episode.

 

I can't recall a time when Fluttershy was ever unreasonable.

Considering the development of Fluttershy throughout the show I feel unreasonably excessive in her nerves when it came to Magic Duel.

 

Yet feel the worse unreasonably show of Fluttershy's character was in Filli Vanilli. Never before has she shown stage fright to anywhere near the degree she showed in this episode. More, she is saying the number of times without issue or hesitation. More so in front of her friends and the CMC.

 

In the episode Hearth Warming Eve Fluttershy was on stage without issue and sang in front of a whole crowd. Sure, she was nervious about the idea but this was nowhere near the crippling fear she had in Filli Vanilli.

----------------)

 

 

Oh, I will say Sleepless in Ponyville did add a pretty big plothole by establishing that Luna could go into th dreams of her subjects.

 

It brings into question how she could have been so lonely and jealous of her sister as interacting with her subjects within their dreams means she actually has a way to become closer to her subjects Celestia ever could.

Edited September 5, 2014 by EquestrianScholar

[Invincible 2,092]

I think that really depends on how it's done. If it's actually about dealing and mitigating the flaws on a believable level, then maybe, but not outright ignoring them.

[Banul 3,831]

You can't keep the characters the same, or they get bland. Characters need to grow and change to be interesting. I think MLP does a good job balancing growth and keeping the flaws that make the characters interesting.

 

Example: Applejack learns that it's okay to get help from others, and that she doesn't need to do everything herself. She's still as stubborn as ever, though. Being stubborn will always be a part of her, but she can learn to change the way it affects her life.

[Megas 28,148]

Improving? Yes

Removing? Depends

 

The show has improved on a lot of flaws a character has, but they can't really remove them because in a lot of cases they might end up removing something that makes a lot of people like them, plus it might not feel natural