Am I the only one who thinks Flutters hasn't developed as a character?

[RainbowTashie 378]

So she's had episodes of her being more assertive filli vannili and putting your hoof down but then a few episodes later she goes back into being shy doormat fluttershy. We all know that nopony messes with her friends but she seems to be very repetitive overall.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

None of the characters have actually "developed". Some have changed, though in most cases they're even less mature than before.

[RainbowTashie 378]

maybe developed isn't the right word but you do at least tend to see mutiple sides to the other ponies rather than a constant fixed character .

[碇 シンジン 27,427]

You cant just stop being a doormat like that it isnnt easy to become assertive i have tried it for 10 years and i have accomplished nothing. It wouldnt be very relatable if all of a sudden flutters would become assertive.

 

I like fluttershy the way she is because i can see myself there

[Arctofire 225]

None of the characters have actually "developed". Some have changed, though in most cases they're even less mature than before.

 

Not true, Rainbow at the start was a selfish, cocky, annoying, little twat. After each of her episodes, she went down the road of learning to embrace her weaknesses and to not be too cocky; by season 3 she was supportive sisterly figure who truly was the element of loyalty.

 

Don't even get me started on Twilight Sparkle, you can debate whether her getting a grip on the qualities that made her interesting was a good thing, but she certainly has developed BIG TIME.

 

However Fluttershy is a character that, like Apple Jack, is static and not all that interesting, unless its occasional gems like Dragonshy and Hurricane Fluttershy. Unlike Apple Jack, they tried to make her change and develop, but every time they did the episode sucked and they had to make her go back a step to avoid the fans raging. This is why Fluttershy in my opinion has not seasoned very well. Apple Jack was never suppose to develop and her episodes were just throw away episodes, she was always supposed to be the straight man and voice of reason. However Fluttershy did have a clear weakness and they should have and did try to make her overcome that.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Arctofire

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Not true, Rainbow at the start was a selfish, cocky, annoying, little twat. After each of her episode's, she went down the road of learning to embrace your weaknesses and to not be too cocky; by season 3 she was supportive sisterly figure who truly was the element of loyalty.

 

Don't even get me started on Twilight Sparkle, you can debate whether her getting a grip on the qualities that made her interesting was a good thing, but she certainly has developed BIG TIME.

 

However Fluttershy is a character, that like Apple Jack, is static and not all that interesting, unless its occasional gems like Dragonshy and Hurricane Fluttershy. Unlike Apple Jack, they try to make her change and develop, but every time they do the episode sucks and they have to make her go back her step to avoid the fans raging. This is why Fluttershy in my opinion has not seasoned very well. Apple Jack was never suppose to develop and her episodes were just throw away episodes, she is suppose to be the straight man and voice of reason. However Fluttershy did have a clear weakness and they should have and did try to make her overcome that.

Season 1, Rainbow Dash spends an afternoon trying to help Apple Bloom earn her cutie mark.

Season 2, Rainbow Dash tries to get Fluttershy past her fears of flying in public, but relents without forcing her.

She's just volatile, she behaves very differently in different situations. AJ and Fluttershy are very stable, they don't. Really, the only actual difference with Dash is that she used to care about doing sweet tricks and aerial stunts and was always awesome to look at. I guess the animators just got lazy because nowadays all she does is fly fast. Similarly with Twillight, all the stuff that made her a badass is gone but nothing actually came around to replace it.

[WindShear 532]

One of the reasons I like Flutters as a character is because she seems to portrayed realistically in regards to her social anxiety.

 

If you are someone who is as introverted as Fluttershy is, you know you can't just learn a lesson and instantly become more comfortable around people. You sometimes have little victories as Fluttershy does, but those little victories usually don't have that much effect on your fears overall. 

 

That's why I like the way Fluttershy is written, because she accurately shows that getting over these kinds of fears, is a very long, very painful ordeal.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

How many times has Fluttershy learned lessons about being shy anyway? Because I'm sure it's a lot less than people imagine.

[ponylaces 1,869]

I think I understand what you're trying to say.

 

I love Fluttershy, but she tends to learn the same lesson over and over again in her episodes. In 'Putting Your Hoof Down', she learned to be assertive without being unpleasant or mean. Later in 'Trade Ya', she first acts selfless by letting Rainbow use her bird whistle to help her get the Daring Do book and is extremely supportive about it. She eventually becomes a push over when Rainbow makes her go with the Daring Do Collector to train the Orthros in Manehatten.

 

Really? Flutters already learned this lesson, she simply could've told Dash that moving to Manehatten is a big change. The fact that she would do that for Rainbow was very kind, but she was still acting like a total push over.

 

I'd like to see a lesson Fluttershy learned in an episode actually be used in another episode. Continuity, my little ponies.

[Eloquence 2,076]

Ah yes, the old "Fluttershy never changes" argument. *cracks knuckles* alright friends gather 'round.

 

Though it has never been explicitly stated on the show, Fluttershy has a disorder commonly known as Generalized Anxiety Disorder, or GAD. How can I say this with confidence when it isn't stated, you ask? Because I have the same disorder, and with my knowledge of it it is a blatantly obvious fact, let me tell you. I can see it in her as plainly as I can see it in myself.

 

Fluttershy, whether or not you choose to believe it, has developed a lot over the course of the series. She has grown from a pony who cowers when someone new approaches her to someone who, while still no social butterfly, can introduce herself to somepony else with much less trouble (think of her spending a whole day with a pony she'd only met once before in Maud Pie, notice that she's less shy there)

 

But the thing is, just because she's getting better doesn't mean the disease magically goes away. It is a brutal disorder, and some days it does take you right back to square one, and you tell yourself that you've accomplished nothing when everyone who knows you can see how much you've changed. I know, because despite the fact that I have grown and changed immensely in the last few years of my life that doesn't mean I don't still have days where I don't like being in crowds or around new people. It doesn't mean I can give a presentation as easily one day as I can the next. It doesn't mean that I don't still have panic attacks. Getting better doesn't mean you're going to just stop being shy, it just makes the high points higher and the low points less frequent. 

 

Fluttershy is never going to just learn a lesson and stop being shy. It would be unrealistic if she did, and frankly I'd be downright insulted. There are a lot of kids shows that use and have used that trope, and do you know what it does? It made me feel worthless, like I was just a dumb idiot who refused to "just get better" when I "so easily could", and it does that to every other kid who's shy or introverted or has Anxiety. I am so proud of FiM for not doing that to those children, for not doing it to me, and I would be devastated if that changed.

 

This has been your daily lesson/rant on psychological disorders and the importance of accurate media representation, brought to you by Eloquence

Edited January 17, 2015 by Eloquence

[Princess Oceangem 61]

Fluttershy's only real development to me was Filly Vanilli at the end when she says she will work on her stage fright in baby steps. And as for Flutters having GAD, that would be believable if done correctly. For example in Hurricane Fluttershy she panics when she thinks of everypony looking at her and envisions herself surrounded by eyes, if they did that sort of thing whenever her GAD went off (or whatever it does, IDK) then it would seem more explained. While they couldn't fit it into their animation budget to do those huge eyes every single time it would be nice to have something similar( like the background turning red maybe?)  

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Fluttershy's only real development to me was Filly Vanilli at the end when she says she will work on her stage fright in baby steps.

Which is kind of hilarious "pretend development" instead of real development, but what can you expect from Filler Vaniller?

[WindShear 532]

Which is kind of hilarious "pretend development" instead of real development, but what can you expect from Filler Vaniller?

 

How exactly is that pretend development? At the beginning of the episode she can't even bring herself to sing in front of her friends, and throughout the course of the episode she learns that she really does love to sing in front of people even though it is extremely difficult for her. By the end of the episode while she is still reluctant to sing in front of large crowds, she is at least willing to get out from behind the curtain and sing in front of her friends.

 

I do not see how that isn't character development.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

How exactly is that pretend development? At the beginning of the episode she can't even bring herself to sing in front of her friends, and throughout the course of the episode she learns that she really does love to sing in front of people even though it is extremely difficult for her. By the end of the episode while she is still reluctant to sing in front of large crowds, she is at least willing to get out from behind the curtain and sing in front of her friends.

 

I do not see how that isn't character development.

It makes up a problem that never existed before and then kinda solves it while explicitly telling the viewer that nothing's really changed.

 

Now that I think about it, it was almost identical to her similarly stupid comic micro.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Dulset Tarn

[Eloquence 2,076]

Fluttershy's only real development to me was Filly Vanilli at the end when she says she will work on her stage fright in baby steps. And as for Flutters having GAD, that would be believable if done correctly. For example in Hurricane Fluttershy she panics when she thinks of everypony looking at her and envisions herself surrounded by eyes, if they did that sort of thing whenever her GAD went off (or whatever it does, IDK) then it would seem more explained. While they couldn't fit it into their animation budget to do those huge eyes every single time it would be nice to have something similar( like the background turning red maybe?)  

 

Umm, is this something you also have? Because maybe it works differently for you, if it's something you have, but for me my Anxiety doesn't "go off". It isn't like a light switch, with an on or off function, it's more like a dimmer switch, it comes in varying shades and degrees, and has a variety of complicated triggers that can increase it slightly or a lot or anywhere in between. Hurricane Fluttershy provided an example of extreme distress caused by events triggering the memories of her being bullied as a child, and we rarely see her Anxiety to that degree.

 

As for Filli Vanilli, one of my absolute favorite episodes ever ever ever, I have never seen any show, much less a kids' show, handle the stage fright trope with that level of tact in all my life. The gross lie that I was shown by everything I watched in my childhood, the idea that you just have to think logically and realize there's nothing to be afraid of and then stage fright will magically go away forever, was finally nowhere to be found. Instead, Fluttershy chose to work on her stage fright on her own terms and at her own pace, and that decision was respected. It was depicted as actually being hard to deal with, but it also said that, if you really want to, you can work on getting better, and it will be hard but you can improve. Seriously, just imagine kids seeing that, instead of seeing "lol just stop being scared you freak", and giving up on themselves when they can't just magically turn off their fear.

 

This. Is. So. Important.

[WindShear 532]

It makes up a problem that never existed before and then kinda solves it while explicitly telling the viewer that nothing's really changed.

 

Now that I think about it, it was almost identical to her similarly stupid comic micro.

 

It isn't a problem that has never existed before. This episode as with many Fluttershy episodes deals with her ongoing struggle with anxiety. No, the episode doesn't completely solve the problem, and it shouldn't. What it does do is illustrate the fact that Flutters is slowly making progress in her struggle with a life-long problem.

 

You seem to think that it isn't character development unless her entire problem with anxiety is destroyed in space of a single episode. Such a solution however would be highly unrealistic, and even kinda insulting to those who suffer from anxiety.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

It isn't a problem that has never existed before. This episode as with many Fluttershy episodes deals with her ongoing struggle with anxiety. No, the episode doesn't completely solve the problem, and it shouldn't. What it does do is illustrate the fact that Flutters is slowly making progress in her struggle with a life-long problem.

 

You seem to think that it isn't character development unless her entire problem with anxiety is destroyed in space of a single episode. Such a solution however would be highly unrealistic, and even kinda insulting to those who suffer from anxiety.

That's not at all what I'm saying. It's just that if you look at the episode from a pragmatic perspective, the episode gets to claim it's development while changing and accomplishing absolutely nothing.

 

And Fluttershy has never had such a love of singing, nor has she ever been very good at it, nor has she shown particular trouble singing in front of a crowd. Watch Hearth's Warming Eve, she's nervous sure but she just does it because it's not that big a deal for her like flying in public was due to her childhood traumas.

[The Second Opinion 269]

Eh, stuff like the way she was able to step in and break up Rainbow and Twilight's argument in Testing I think works to demonstrate that she's gone from cripplingly antisocial to competent-if-timid. Stuff like Filli Vanilli is more a case of plain old personal anxieties. I will give this show credit (in spots) for more realistic development, understanding that morals and competence can grow and change, but personalities are sort of rooted at the core. 

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Here's what I want to know. Development or no development, do people really want Fluttershy to grow beyond her shyness and fears? Heck, even if they found a really good way to do it, even if it were somehow plausible, I think the show would be a lot worse off for it.

[TheMisterManGuy 344]

Fluttershy is a great character, but the reason she seems static is because of how the writers have been using her. If you pay attention to most non-Fluttershy episodes, Fluttershy is just.... kinda in the background. Doesn't really contribute much of anything, says almost nothing about her personal life, and has not once had any indication of a family. Granted it could be that the writers are planning something big with her character, hence the random moments of rage and mean-spiritedness from her. But I feel it's annoying because Fluttershy has the most backstory potential of the entire mane 6, there actually is a lot you can do with her, but the writers keep falling into the same "Time for Fluttershy to get over her shyness" stories many times, we need some new material with her.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

the writers keep falling into the same "Time for Fluttershy to get over her shyness" stories many times

Such as? Gimme a list please.

[WindShear 532]

Here's what I want to know. Development or no development, do people really want Fluttershy to grow beyond her shyness and fears? Heck, even if they found a really good way to do it, even if it were somehow plausible, I think the show would be a lot worse off for it.

 

I can kinda agree with that. I don't want her to completely grow out of it, but still I like seeing her make a little bit of progress.

 

 

The main reason I like Filli Vanilli as an episode is that regardless of whether or not there is any real character development, they did a great job of accurately portraying anxiety. As someone with an extreme amount of anxiety this episode really resonated with me.

[silvadel 1,393]

Fluttershy's only real development to me was Filly Vanilli at the end when she says she will work on her stage fright in baby steps. And as for Flutters having GAD, that would be believable if done correctly. For example in Hurricane Fluttershy she panics when she thinks of everypony looking at her and envisions herself surrounded by eyes, if they did that sort of thing whenever her GAD went off (or whatever it does, IDK) then it would seem more explained. While they couldn't fit it into their animation budget to do those huge eyes every single time it would be nice to have something similar( like the background turning red maybe?)  

 

This line of thought actually was the one that made me change my mind about Pinkie Pie in Filli Vanilli.

 

The whole episode was orchestrated by Pinkie.  She was the mastermind of the whole thing right down to provoking Big Mac into losing his voice.

 

She was way over the top the whole episode on purpose in an effort to desensitize Fluttershy, and really, by the end it worked much better than any pony would have a right to expect.

[TheMisterManGuy 344]

Such as? Gimme a list please.

Dragonshy

Putting Your Hoof Down

Filli Vanilli

Hurricane Fluttershy

 

Not bad episodes (though PYHD is debatable), but they all follow the same base of Fluttershy trying to get over a fear or shyness. And when its not that, its about her concern for animals.

[Dulset Tarn 441]

Pff

Dragonshy

Do you remember the lesson from that episode? Or like, the conclusion?