Is MLP Friendship Gardens the real G2? How would you put the timeline?

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Are people getting the order of the MLP generations wrong?

 

When people talk MLP generations, they seem to list them on a timeline of:

G1- My Little Pony n Friends

G2- My Little Pony Tales

G3- My Little Pony

G3.5- Newborn cuties

G4- My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic

 

but is that really the correct order of the generations? People seem to be leaving out Generation 2, or at least confusing My Little Pony Tales for Gen2, when it, in fact, was intended to be a continuation of Generation 1. Which would mane it G1.5.

 

The real Gen 2, though never having a tv show dedicated to it, only a shortly run toyline, was Friendship Garden Ponies, which featured Lightheart, Sundance, Ivy, Morning Glory, Sweet Berry Sky Shimmer, and Clever Clover.

 

In my opinion, the rightful timeline goes like this:

G1- My Little Pony n' Friends

G1.5- My Little Pony Tales

G2- My Little Pony Friendship Garden

G3- My Little Pony (original style/ no series)

G3.5- mY Little pony style change 2 (with toon series)

G3.8 Newborn cuties (style change 3 with toon series)

G4- MLP:FIM

 

But what do you guys think? Should Friendship Gardens have its spot as Generation 2, if the toyline wasn't popular in the U.S. and never got its own tv show? Does that change the fact that they still are the second generation of ponies in the franchise?

Edited April 29, 2016 by Nightmare Muffin

[Shanks 10,811]

Generation 2 should count at least somewhat since it had a toyline but no cartoon though as you pointed out many mistake My Little Pony Tales as G2 when it is G1 though with how different My Little Pony Tales is from My Little Pony n Friends I can understand why the misconception exists.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Generation 2 should count at least somewhat since it had a toyline but no cartoon though as you pointed out many mistake My Little Pony Tales as G2 when it is G1 though with how different My Little Pony Tales is from My Little Pony n Friends I can understand why the misconception exists.

I can understand the misconception, don't get me wrong. But I on the other hand, I have to wonder if it's really justified. Looking at Gen 3's halfway point, 3.5, the Newborn Cuties era, that had a massive style change and setting than the Gen 3 bracket. G1.5 MLP Tales is not much different, by comparison. Same style change in terms of plot and design. The only thing that's different from 3.5 is 1.5 focuses on an entirely new cast of characters, whereas 3.5 kept the focus on the same ones from g3.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Nightmare Muffin

[Shanks 10,811]

I can understand the misconception, don't get me wrong. But I on the other hand, I have to wonder if it's really justified. Looking at Gen 3's halfway point, 3.5, the Newborn Cuties era, that had a massive style change and setting than the Gen 3 bracket. G1.5 MLP Tales is not much different, by comparison.

Maybe it is because I haven't watched as much G3 or the fact that I like the original G1 cartoon but am not a fan of the G1.5 cartoon because I feel like it was a major step backward for the franchise. I have heard people say that G3.5 was worse than G3 which I can believe but I didn't like any of either of G3 or G3.5 that I saw.

[Honsou 399]

I would go with the toyline. 

I never got into the history of the MLP series of toys, as I never cared enough because let's face it, growing up a male in caucasian redneck dominated Idaho, you don't play with pony toys. 

 

I've never even heard of friendship gardens honestly, I know throughout the years they attempted to make new shows, and honestly until I watched FiM I never knew there was a difference between the ponies.

[Shanks 10,811]

I know throughout the years they attempted to make new shows, and honestly until I watched FiM I never knew there was a difference between the ponies.

As little as I knew about MLP before getting into FIM I did know that there had to be some differences between the generations though it just didn't occur to me what they were or how significant they were. I saw a little bit of the original G1 cartoon when I was a kid thanks to my pony crazy cousin so that it is what I associated ponies with though I associated them more with the toys than with the cartoons. I did get really into the original G1 cartoon after getting into FIM thanks to the surprisingly dark villains such as Tirek and Grogar.

[Honsou 399]

Yea, I remember seeing bits and pieces of the G1 ponies growing up as well. I have a few female cousins who watched it. I remember there was a zebra. For some reason that's all I can remember, is a dang zebra. 

[ManaMinori 4,143]

I would go with the toyline. 

 

I never got into the history of the MLP series of toys, as I never cared enough because let's face it, growing up a male in caucasian redneck dominated Idaho, you don't play with pony toys. 

 

I've never even heard of friendship gardens honestly, I know throughout the years they attempted to make new shows, and honestly until I watched FiM I never knew there was a difference between the ponies.

I think you might be right. The way I see it, it doesn't matter if the G2 toyline had a show, like the other gens, because the toyline always comes first, and it's the show that follows, in order to promote said toyline- correct me if I'm wrong. It doesn't work the other way around, with the show being first and toys created to promote said show.

 

 

I think a lot of people who've never watched MLP could reach that conclusion of there not being any distinct difference between the gens

[Honsou 399]

For Hasbro, about the only thing I can think of that came before the toyline was the Small Soldiers line. The movie came out, and the Toyline launched to support the movie. But for all the other shows, Transformers, and My Little Pony, the the toys came first, and then the shows came to help promote and sell the toys. Kind of like the Sonic the Hedgehog series that ran in the 90's to help support Sega. And then there was Sonic X which ran parrallel to Sonic Adventure 2. 

[Mand'alor Dash 2,224]

I think the reason people call "Tales" G2 is that there's not much point having two G1s and no G2. It makes things alot simpler, even if it's not technically correct.

[zombienixon 330]

I think the reason people call "Tales" G2 is that there's not much point having two G1s and no G2. It makes things alot simpler, even if it's not technically correct.

 

That, and they don't really know much about the older toys.

[Mand'alor Dash 2,224]

That, and they don't really know much about the older toys.

Pretty much. Not alot of point in digging into the history of something like Friendship Gardens When it didn't even have a show.

[Shanks 10,811]

Pretty much. Not alot of point in digging into the history of something like Friendship Gardens When it didn't even have a show.

True, unless you are into the toys that is but that is not what got me into ponies though I have gotten a decent plushie collection thanks to that.

[Fhaolan 4,468]

Yes, Friendship Gardens is G2. Pony Tales is sorta G1.5. Sorta because the art style or toy styles didn't really change much from G1 to G1.5. It was setting change.

 

G2 really tanked over here in North America and got discontinued pretty quick, but apparently was still reasonably popular in Europe and production continued for international sales for several years. I'm aware of a comic book series, and a couple of video games, both European, but no animated series or specials (G3 + G3.5 didn't technically have a series either, they were all specials and in-packaging add-ons for toy sets. Well except for the last little bit of G3.5, the New Born Cuities things. Those were primitive webcasts.)

 

Exactly how long each generation lasted is kinda weird, as they were discontinued at different times in different markets, with overlaps in some cases because of it.

[Xenomorphic 362]

I only know the basis of the MLP triliogy so yea it could be.

[Envy 6,000]

I think the reason people call "Tales" G2 is that there's not much point having two G1s and no G2. It makes things alot simpler, even if it's not technically correct.

 

And I really don't understand this... The whole basis of these 'generations' is the toyline, not the cartoons. The whole basis of the MLP series is the toyline!

 

I don't know why people can't accept Tales as G1.5, yet they can accept that there is a G3.5. I don't know if it is technically accurate to even call Tales G1.5 (there was no change whatsoever in the toyline for the Tales characters, IIRC), but it certainly is far better than calling it G2, since it has absolutely no relation to G2. Actually scratch all of that... because no, it is not G1.5... Just simply a second animation in G1.

 

One has got to understand what this series is about before they can claim to be a fan about it. No that doesn't mean one has to like the toys, they just have to respect that the basis of the generations, and the series as a whole is the toys, not the cartoon series'.

[Shanks 10,811]

And I really don't understand this... The whole basis of these 'generations' is the toyline, not the cartoons. The whole basis of the MLP series is the toyline!

That was the case with previous generations and while the toys will always be important it seems that may be changing with G4 with the show now being almost as well known as the toys themselves. Yes I think everyone is well aware that the purpose of the cartoons is to sell the toyline but with the increased focus on the cartoons it is a good thing even for those who are more focused on the toys because it is increasing the quality of the toys (though Hasbro still has quite a ways to go on that) and has brought in a new and unexpected fanbase which has brought even more sales in.

 

It is not that people don't recognize that MLP came from a toyline it is just that a lot of us frankly don't care so long as the cartoons are actually decent because that is kind of why most of us are actually here. Even if G4 were to make a turn for the worst or there was a G5 cartoon and it ended up being crappy there will still be a toyline and I think we all know it. I have a growing plushy collection though if I didn't actually like the characters I never would have gotten those plushies to begin with and I am sure the same can be said of many of us here who have bought plushies or figures.

 

 

I don't know why people can't accept Tales as G1.5, yet they can accept that there is a G3.5. I don't know if it is technically accurate to even call Tales G1.5 (there was no change whatsoever in the toyline for the Tales characters, IIRC), but it certainly is far better than calling it G2, since it has absolutely no relation to G2. Actually scratch all of that... because no, it is not G1.5... Just simply a second animation in G1.

It is not that people can't accept it it is just the confusion of the drastically different setting from the original G1 cartoon and the second one while with G3.5 there was a change in the show setting it was one where even those who didn't know much about it could still tell that G 3.5 was still a continuation of G3. I measure the franchise by the cartoons because frankly that is what I care about, if people want to measure it in a different manner than that is fine by me but lets please not get into one of these "who is and isn't a real fan/who can and can't call themselves a fan" bullshit argument please. 

[Envy 6,000]

That was the case with previous generations and while the toys will always be important it seems that may be changing with G4 with the show now being almost as well known as the toys themselves. Yes I think everyone is well aware that the purpose of the cartoons is to sell the toyline but with the increased focus on the cartoons it is a good thing even for those who are more focused on the toys because it is increasing the quality of the toys (though Hasbro still has quite a ways to go on that) and has brought in a new and unexpected fanbase which has brought even more sales in.

Many would beg to differ with you in terms of the quality of G4 toys. Many toy collectors are disappointed with G4 toys for very similar reasons to G3.5 toys - decreased variety (focusing mainly on the same characters), decreased quality, etc. G4 MLP brushables are so tiny, too!

 

Sorry, but the success of FiM has not done much good for the brushable line. You may be able to say something different for the plushes, but the mainline brushables are a disappointment to many MLP toy collectors. The quality of toys was very high in G3, but has fallen since, and G4 most certainly hasn't changed that.

 

It is not that people can't accept it it is just the confusion of the drastically different setting from the original G1 cartoon and the second one while with G3.5 there was a change in the show setting it was one where even those who didn't know much about it could still tell that G 3.5 was still a continuation of G3. I measure the franchise by the cartoons because frankly that is what I care about, if people want to measure it in a different manner than that is fine by me but lets please not get into one of these "who is and isn't a real fan/who can and can't call themselves a fan" bullshit argument please.

I'm not saying that you appreciating the cartoons over the toys does not make you a 'true fan'. I'm saying that the standard from which the generations are decided is already in place and has a very sound logic. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to base the generations on anything else because MLP is a toy franchise at its foundation. G5 could come along without a cartoon ever happening, but it would still be G5, would it not? Saying anything else just creates unnecessary confusion.

 

It's not much unlike if some group of new Pokemon fans came out of the middle of nowhere and suddenly tried to start using a different formula for the Pokemon generations. Like, if they wanted to start referring to that arc in the anime (Orange Islands?) as G2, even though we all know that G2 refers to Gold/Silver/Crystal. You can't just come around and start basing Pokemon the anime, now can you?

 

I know that's not completely comparable, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from. It just creates confusion where there doesn't need to be any.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

I'm not saying that you appreciating the cartoons over the toys does not make you a 'true fan'. I'm saying that the standard from which the generations are decided is already in place and has a very sound logic. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever to base the generations on anything else because MLP is a toy franchise at its foundation. G5 could come along without a cartoon ever happening, but it would still be G5, would it not? Saying anything else just creates unnecessary confusion.

 

It's not much unlike if some group of new Pokemon fans came out of the middle of nowhere and suddenly tried to start using a different formula for the Pokemon generations. Like, if they wanted to start referring to that arc in the anime (Orange Islands?) as G2, even though we all know that G2 refers to Gold/Silver/Crystal. You can't just come around and start basing Pokemon the anime, now can you?

 

I know that's not completely comparable, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from. It just creates confusion where there doesn't need to be any.

I very much like the analogy you used as example, with people referring to the Pokemon series Orange Islands as Gen2, rather than going by the games generation. Pokemon fans can recognize that the animated series is meant to promote the games which will always determine the Gen timeline, proper. So why can't MLP fans acknowledge that it's basically the same for this franchse as well, with the toyline coming first and properly determining the generation timeline, before the animated series? As much as we all love the show and would (most of us, perhaps), completely ignore the toyline for what it is, fact of the matter is, without the toyline existing, we wouldn't have the MLP series.

[Zejgar 25]

G2 - My Little Pony Friendship Gardens

Yes. By definition.

 

 

G3.5 - Newborn cuties

No.

 

G3.5 and Newborn Cuties are not the same thing. I'd like to give you the full list of G3.5 animations:

• Waiting For The Winter Wishes Festival
• Twinkle Wish Adventure
• Pinkie Pie's Ferris Wheel Adventure
• Sweetie Belle's Gumball House Surprise
• (you can probably count Wonderful Winter Song clip, too, even though 95% of it is cut from Twinkle Wish Adventure)
• Once Upon A My Little Pony Time: Over Two Rainbows
• Once Upon A My Little Pony Time: So Many Different Ways To Play

Only the last two installments are what is known as "Newborn Cuties".

 

 

3.5 kept the focus on the same ones from g3.

There is a problem with separating G3 and G3.5, because they overlap. They are entirely different things, but they overlap, giving us seven Meet The Ponies shorts and a couple more shorts that were done in G3 artstyle, but with G3.5 characters. Some of those shorts even reference the events of G3, but that's not enough for them to be the same thing.

 

There are only three G3 characters in the focus of G3.5 that came from G3: Cheerilee, Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash. All other core characters were new and never appeared in G3, safe for the aforementioned shorts. Even further, Cheerilee and Rainbow Dash were redesigned, both in appearance and personality. G3.5 Cheerilee in particular has undergone such a drastic change that she's as far from her G3 self as she is from her G4 self. One might argue that she's even closer to G4 than to G3.

 

Minty, Rarity, Wysteria, Lily Lightly and others are nowhere to be seen in G3.5 proper, except maybe in the background as easter eggs and what not. Toola Roola, Sweetie Belle, Scootaloo and others are nowhere to be seen in G3 proper.

 

It's a bizarre case, and I'm sure it gets even more bizarre if toys are brought into question.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Zejgar

[WriteCodes46 178]

To leave it clear, the generations are defined by the designs of the brushable dolls, which are the main product of the MLP franchise (the TV shows are secondary products intended mainly for marketing purposes, and they don't directly define generations).

 

-G0 or G0.5, as some call it, was the original My Pretty Pony toy, designed by Bonnie Zacherle for the Romper Room toyline. It launched in 1981, and had no TV show (unless you count Romper Room as it's TV show).

-G1 was the first design of My Little Pony dolls, starting in 1982. It encompasses the original 1985 movie, the 1986 My Little Pony 'n Friends series, and the 1992 My Little Pony Tales series.

-G2 was the first redesign of the dolls, launched in 1996. It was greatly disliked by most people and a massive commercial failure. It's only piece of media was the My Little Pony: Friendship Gardens videogame, released for Windows 95 in 1997. A Nintendo 64 version was planned but cancelled. The videogame was rated Early Childhood by the ESRB, and was sold even after Generation 3 started.

-G3 was the next redesign, created in response to the negative reception of G2, launched in 2002. Its media consisted of several Direct-to-Video releases of varying length. Originally there was a large variety of characters like in previous generations, but later Hasbro distilled the toyline to what is known as the "Core 7", and the cartoons began featuring only those characters. This is the intro of the G3 cartoons featuring the Core 7 (previous cartoons featured the same art style, but didn't have that intro).

-G3.5 was yet another redesign of the dolls. The reason it wasn't called G4 by collectors (the MLP fans of vintage) was because it featured the same set of characters, and the cartoons were also pretty much the same, although the animation style changed to match the new dolls. This is the intro of the G3.5 cartoons. Within that generation, the Newborn Cuties toyline and show were also released. This generation saw a gradual decline in popularity, and by 2009 sales had bottomed out. Hasbro intended to kill the franchise after this, but...

-G4 was created after Hasbro was approached by Lauren Faust. They decided to give the franchise one last chance, and created this generation with a different approach from previous gens, by allowing Faust to help them create the main characters and the TV show simultaneously (instead of the classic approach where Hasbro's Toy R&D department would create the new dolls, and then a show would be made based on those dolls). The "Mane 6" dolls were launched in early 2010 and initially saw little success, but then the show started in October 2010, and you know how the rest goes...

 

And that's the history of how MLP Forums was made.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,152]

@@Nightmare Muffin

 

Moving as requested. Enjoy the new section.