Twilight Sparkle?

[UnknownFry 169]

I don't think Twilight works even half as hard as her friends, let alone AJ.

 

When it comes to studying and hitting the books there is no comparison in who does puts forth the most effort concerning self improvement, and she had done quite a fair bit of the heavy lifting in some of those two part specials.

 

mary sue.

 

That term has been abused and misused so many times it has lost any meaning it used to have. Just another meaningless buzz word. Running a simple checklist though Twilight still is quite flawed, still has to work for whatever rewards she earns, and things tend to go against her way quite often. I would hardly call her a Mary Sue. If she has been privileged she has certainly made the most out of her opportunities.

 

However you or anyone else are free to disagree.

[Prince Firemane 309]

Well, as much as people don't agree with it, it doesn't change the fact that Twilight gets the most attention because she is the main character of the show. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but this is and always has been Twilight's story.

 

I really don't like it when people quote Equestria Girls as an example of over-favoring Twilight. I didn't think it took a knowledge of theoretical, metaphysical and inter-dimensional quantum physics to get this, but here it is.

Even though Twilight was the only one to step through the mirror, the other mane five are still present. Applejack in Equestria may differ in biology from Canterlot High Applejack and they may have been shaped a bit differently due to the structures of their home universes, but they are the same person. Their traits and characteristics are still the same, especially their Honesty; they just came about it a bit differently. People also like to quote Equestria Girls as an example of Twilight's superiority. Yes, Twilight was instrumental in the defeat of Sunset Shimmer. But in Rainbow Rocks, Twilight was barely present. That was Sunset Shimmer's  story and I imagine that future EQG productions will continue to be Sunset Shimmer's stories.

[user1342342 143]

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 3:25 AM, UnknownFry said:

Twilight still is quite flawed

 

 

No, she's not. Her flaws have always been Trivial.

 

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 3:25 AM, UnknownFry said:

That term has been abused and misused so many times it has lost any meaning it used to have

 

 

I define mary sue as any character that's unrealistically perfect/gifted/praised. Twilight fits that.

 

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 3:25 AM, UnknownFry said:

If she has been privileged she has certainly made the most out of her opportunities.

 

 

She's way overly privileged, and it's annoying. 

 

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 3:55 AM, Prince Firemane said:

Twilight gets the most attention because she is the main character of the show. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but this is and always has been Twilight's story.

 

I know, and that's stupid imo. Maybe I wouldn't have a problem with that if she wasn't such a badly thought of character.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 3:55 AM, Prince Firemane said:

Well, as much as people don't agree with it, it doesn't change the fact that Twilight gets the most attention because she is the main character of the show. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but this is and always has been Twilight's story.

 

I've never had an issue with her being the main character. The issue I have is with her being the only important character. Or that the mane five are simply the means by which Twilight continuously gets showered with gifts and rewards that they'll never receive even a fraction of because they aren't "destined to win" like she is. 

 

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 3:55 AM, Prince Firemane said:

Even though Twilight was the only one to step through the mirror, the other mane five are still present.

 

 

No, they're not. The humane five are present, and they have proven themselves to be utterly shitty replacements for them. Furthermore, there's also the implication that this entire time, the Element of Magic has been the only "required" Element to produce the rainbow friendship laser, and not only do the other Elements not need to be present, but their original bearers do not need to be present either. As a matter of fact, that actually might be the number one reason why I would like to consider the Equestria Girls films non-canon. 

[Prince Firemane 309]

  On 2015-05-18 at 4:31 AM, Cleverclover said:

No, they're not. The humane five are present, and they have proven themselves to be utterly shitty replacements for them. Furthermore, there's also the implication that this entire time, the Element of Magic has been the only "required" Element to produce the rainbow friendship laser, and not only do the other Elements not need to be present, but their original bearers do not need to be present either. As a matter of fact, that actually might be the number one reason why I would like to consider the Equestria Girls films non-canon. 

Yes, they are; because the humane five are the mane five. Trivial circumstances aside, they are still the same characters. As was shown in the very first episode, the Element of Magic is the catalyst that allows the other five to work. The five of them are the various core aspects in the magic of friendship while Magic adds the spark that holds them together. Just because the solid, literal Elements of Harmony don't exist at Canterlot High, doesn't mean that their virtues and magic don't; it just takes that spark to bring them out.

[UnknownFry 169]

I know, and that's stupid imo. 

 

She may be the principal main character, but there are five other main ones as well.

 

 Twilight fits that.

 

Except she isn't perfect, and Rainbow Rocks kind of hammers that point down big time. Looking at the few episodes in Season 5 she seems to be far from perfect especially in Castle Sweet Castle.

 

I've never had an issue with her being the main character. The issue I have is with her being the only important character. Or that the mane five are simply the means by which Twilight continuously gets showered with gifts and rewards that they'll never receive even a fraction of because they aren't "destined to win" like she is. 

 

Except the show keeps reinforcing the point that she can't do it without her friends.

 

Why should the others be rewarded on the same level as Twilight when they have not put in the same amount of effort or have done the same amount of work to begin with?  Let them earn their rewards on their own merits rather than just give them as such because Twilight got it. It may not be an equal treatment, but it is a fair one as why should they rewarded from things they never earned.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2015 by UnknownFry

[user1342342 143]

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 4:59 PM, UnknownFry said:

Except she isn't perfect

 

I never said Twi was absolutely perfect, she obviously isn't.

 

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 4:59 PM, UnknownFry said:

Looking at the few episodes in Season 5

 

I can't really say anything about season five, I haven't watched it yet.

 

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 4:59 PM, UnknownFry said:

I've never had an issue with her being the main character. The issue I have is with her being the only important character.

 

 

This ^^ 

 

She's way more important/special than she needs to be. 

 

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 4:59 PM, UnknownFry said:

Why should the others be rewarded on the same level as Twilight when they have not put in the same amount of effort or have done the same amount of work to begin with?  Let them earn their rewards on their own merits rather than just give them as such because Twilight got it. It may not be an equal treatment, but it is a fair one as why should they rewarded from things they never earned.

 

The others work harder than Twilight, and she's been given more opportunity and support than any other character on the show.

[UnknownFry 169]

The others work harder than Twilight.

 

Debatable, but the others were never Celestia's hoove picked personal proteges either so they simply did not do work equivalent to what Twilight did and as such they should not be rewarded on the same level as Twilight because they did not do the equivalent work. 

 

Fact of the matter is they also have seats in Twilight's Castle, and they have depicted on stained glassed mirrors as well so they have been adequately rewarded for their labors, and they have been recognized in ceremonies in the past.

 

The others have also been rewarded appropriately within their own fields and have achieved recognition in the show on their own terms by doing the appropriate work for their related fields, so I don't see the reason why people keep trying to bring the concept of  Twilight keeps getting rewarded and the other's don't. This is simply not the case.

 

I can't really say anything about season five, I haven't watched it yet.

 

Fair enough.

 

She's way more important/special than she needs to be. 

 

She may be the main character, but the she is not the only character of importance. Fact of the matter is that the show keeps reinforcing this concept to the point of directly saying similar messages within the context of these major episodes.

 

Fact of the matter the show has actually emphasized the other characters a lot more in the later seasons within the vast majority of the episodes in comparison to whatever they do with Twilight.

Edited May 18, 2015 by UnknownFry

[Suukorak 354]

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 5:37 PM, UnknownFry said:

Debatable, but the others were never Celestia's hoove picked personal proteges either so they simply did not do work equivalent to what Twilight did as such they should not be rewarded on the same level as Twilight because they did not do such work.

 That's unfair. Four of them can't even do magic. None of them lived in Canterlot either.

I would have to say I think Applejack and Rarity work the hardest (from what we've seen). Frankly, though, I don't think the others really want to be alicorns. Not even Rainbow, she would certainly dislike the responsibility. It is true, though, that Twilight has gotten the most rewards by far, and not necessarily in proportion to her work. This is shown especially true since apparently no one knows the Mane 6 (despite their depiction - twice! - in stained-glass windows), but once Twilight's a princess everyone stampedes her.

So yes, Twilight has been unfairly rewarded. And, as far as I could tell, for learning the lesson she learned in episode 1, rather than any subsequent achievement.

[user1342342 143]

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 5:37 PM, UnknownFry said:

Debatable, but the others were never Celestia's hoove picked personal proteges either

 

 

That's partly what I mean about the whole "given more opportunity and support than any other character on the show." He role is a bit unfair if you ask me.

 

This isn't even the main problem I have with Twi. It's the way her character is written/portrayed and how the world treats her that annoys me. 

[UnknownFry 169]

That's unfair. Four of them can't even do magic. None of them lived in Canterlot either.

 

Life is not always fair, and not all ponies are created equal as far as talent and potential is concerned. What is important though is to make the most the most of the hand that circumstance has dealt to the individual. Admittedly Twilight's background has afforded her opportunities that might not have been available to her had things been slightly different.

 

On the other hand the other five have talents and skills that surpass Twilight in other areas and the other five use what they have to pursue their own interests and desires, and they seem pretty happy about their lots in life even if they are still working towards some major goals in the process.

 

It is true, though, that Twilight has gotten the most rewards by far, and not necessarily in proportion to her work.

 

Let's not pretend whatever rewards Twilight has earned has not come without additional responsibilities and pressures as well. The title and castle seem nice perks but they both came with a price that Twilight had to pay to earn them in the process, and she will still be paying the price for quite some time.

 

 This is shown especially true since apparently no one knows the Mane 6 (despite their depiction - twice! - in stained-glass windows), but once Twilight's a princess everyone stampedes her.
 

Hardly anybody recognized Twilight as a Princess in Season 4 aside from a few episodes so it is not like she was stampeded by everyone in Season 4. Admittedly so far in Season 5 she does seem to have greater recognition though. However the other mane 5 do seem to be recognized as being the best or having strong reputations in their respective fields in other episodes as well. Recognition does not seem like too much of an issue all things considered, and I would say rewards and recognition have been awarded accordingly appropriately to the proper merits of their respective characters.

 

One last point of concession is that those stained glass windows are kind of tucked away inside the castle at Canterlot so it is not surprisingly that the majority of ponies would be unaware of the windows in the first place.

 

It's the way her character is written/portrayed and how the world treats her that annoys me

 

Fair enough, and I don't expect I will change your mind concerning the matter at this point, you have your reasons and I have mine.

 

That's partly what I mean about the whole "given more opportunity and support than any other character on the show.

 

Perhaps, but is it one of those earlier core concepts established in the early days of the show that I find  particularly relevant to these discussions. All of the main characters come from different backgrounds and all have had different opportunities to prove themselves. It is not surprising that the outcomes had been different for each of the respective characters in question here.

Edited May 18, 2015 by UnknownFry

[user1342342 143]

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 6:08 PM, UnknownFry said:

Life is not always fair, and not all ponies are created equal as far as talent and potential is concerned.

 

 

They all have different talents, and the show isn't real life. They are equal in the sense that no one life is worth more than another, regardless of what you're talented at. This doesn't change Twilight being a ridiculously overpowered/over-glorified sue.

 

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 6:08 PM, UnknownFry said:

All of the main characters come from different backgrounds and all have had different opportunities to prove themselves

 

Didn't I go over this? 

[UnknownFry 169]

They all have different talents, and the show isn't real life.

 

True, but the show is modeled to teach lessons applicable for real life as far as the concept of friendships is concerned. So the idea of individuals having varying levels and different backgrounds  is very much a relevant concept that pertains to the core of the show. As such pony life just like real life is not going to be flat out equal for everyone, and not everyone is going to have the same shots or opportunities as others may get.

 

Life might not be fair in either instance, but there still are opportunities for the characters to prove themselves and earn rewards accordingly to their merits.

 

You have not seen Season 5 yet, but The Cutie Map tackles a similar theme pertaining to some possible issues that concerns the ideals of this concept

 

 This doesn't change Twilight being a ridiculously overpowered/over-glorified sue.

 

Not for you, but it helps put things back into perspective of the proper context concerning such things as far as some arguments go. As I said earlier I don't expect to change your mind at this point.

 

Didn't I go over this? 

 

You might have, but the point is these differences don't make the other characters less important nor does it make Twilight any more important than what she actually she is as far as the show is concerned. 

Edited May 18, 2015 by UnknownFry

[Prince Firemane 309]

  On 2015-05-18 at 6:34 PM, 1CJB said:

They all have different talents, and the show isn't real life. They are equal in the sense that no one life is worth more than another, regardless of what you're talented at. This doesn't change Twilight being a ridiculously overpowered/over-glorified sue.

But that's just it, no one is worth more than the others, Twilight certainly isn't worth more than her friends, nor they more than her. It has been shown that Twilight is the linchpin to their friendship and that they're lost without her. But Twilight's Kingdom explicitly showed that she is completely useless without them and their friendship. Twilight had the power of four Alicorns on her side, she was the closest thing to a true goddess this show has ever had. Even with all that power on her side, she was still unable to defeat Tirek. Why? Because she acted alone. Only when her friends came into play was Tirek able to be defeated.

[user1342342 143]

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 7:29 PM, Prince Firemane said:

But that's just it, no one is worth more than the others, Twilight certainly isn't worth more than her friends, nor they more than her.

 

 

Exactly. So why is Twilight treated unfairly compared to the others?

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 7:29 PM, Prince Firemane said:

But Twilight's Kingdom explicitly showed that she is completely useless without them and their friendship.

 

True, she does need them to defeat the big baddies, but it's still mainly her doing it, and her getting most of the praise/rewards. The others are just there until she needs to use the elements. Her element is literally friendship (magic), so why would she even need the other elements? I thought positive traits are what make friendship possible. Another reason I think Twi is a poorly thought of character.

[Prince Firemane 309]

  On 2015-05-18 at 7:42 PM, 1CJB said:

Exactly. So why is Twilight treated unfairly compared to the others?

In what exact ways do you consider Twilight to be unfairly glorified over her friends? By becoming a Princess? That has been Celestia's endgame for a long time; possibly because her cutie mark is at the center of the Tree of Harmony. But to directly quote Celestia; what is the Princess of Friendship without her friends? The mane five all have their parts to play in their friendship, they bring in their own unique flaws and strengths; their equal involvement is directly shown by each one of them having their own thrones in the castle. Just because they're not Alicorns does not mean they're any less important.

 

  Quote

 

 

True, she does need them to defeat the big baddies, but it's still mainly her doing it, and her getting most of the praise/rewards. The others are just there until she needs to use the elements.

Friendship's core traits are Generosity, Honesty, Laughter, Kindness and Loyalty. Magic is the catalyst that keeps them all bound together; yet Magic is useless without them. Twilight wasn't able to fix everything by herself when Discord returned; she needed to help her friends realize what their friendship meant to each one of them before anything could be done about Discord himself. It seemed that the Element of Magic worked alone in Equestria Girls, but the human mane five already embodied their own elements. Magic was just needed to catalyze them and bring them out. Watch the first two episodes and then the first movie; all the parallels are there.

 

  Quote

 

Her element is literally friendship (magic), so why would she even need the other elements? I thought positive traits are what make friendship possible.

You literally just answered your own question.

[Sintanan 151]

  On 2015-05-15 at 7:22 PM, 1CJB said:

I stopped caring about Twilight's character before the whole alicorn transformation. I still don't believe that she deserved to become one. 

 

Hasbro had to come up with some way to sell more toys.  That's why Cadance got wings - they needed to sell that backlog of pink-bodied Celestias.

[user1342342 143]

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 7:25 PM, UnknownFry said:

As such pony life just like real life is not going to be flat out equal for everyone, and not everyone is going to have the same shots or opportunities as others may get.

 

 

That's true, but I still think Twi is unrealistically perfect, overly gifted, praised far to often, absurdly powerful, given far more support and opportunities than any character on the show. 

 

Another thing, real life is nothing like pony land, I wouldn't really compare the two. We don't see nearly as much suffering/poverty like we do irl, I can expect the little ponies to have more opportunities.

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 7:58 PM, Prince Firemane said:

You literally just answered your own question

 

How? I just think it's a stupid plot-hole that Twi's element is basically the whole instead of a piece. 

[Wicked Funky 2,955]

 

Well, Just like they have shown and explained in the show, She is what holds the mane 6 togheter. Without her they drift apart

 

And I belive alot of people like her since they can realate to her

[Steve Piranha 29,443]

  On 2015-05-15 at 8:38 AM, 1CJB said:

So can anyone explain to me the appeal of this character? Why do people like her? I personally think that she's a boring character, I've never really liked her. Twilight, the archmage, scientist, historian, who's talented in magic like no other and is also the element of magic, is overly gifted. Her personality is also near perfect, with her flaws being minor and overcame rather quickly. She outshines pretty much every character on the show, and we're reminded frequently of how "special" she is. 

You started watching the show recently? Twily was far from your description at the start of the show, she was more relatable and funny, no, she barely exhibit flaws and she's been out of focus lately

[user1342342 143]

  On 2015-05-19 at 12:16 AM, Steve Piranha said:

You started watching the show recently? Twily was far from your description at the start of the show, she was more relatable and funny, no, she barely exhibit flaws and she's been out of focus lately

 

I've been watching for about two in a half years now. She did have her moments, but overall I still find her to be a sue, even in the first season.

[UnknownFry 169]

Another thing, real life is nothing like pony land, I wouldn't really compare the two.

 

Yeah one tends to run into problems depending on the comparison being made.

 

We don't see nearly as much suffering/poverty like we do irl, I can expect the little ponies to have more opportunities.

 

Fair enough.

Edited May 19, 2015 by UnknownFry

[Trine 665]

Because she re shelves the cozy old dusty books that is full of information. Its cozy and nice to imagine how nice it feels to dream to a place far away. Twilight is a cozy friendly pony ^^

[IJoinedForPonies 126]

 

 

  On 2015-05-18 at 8:18 PM, 1CJB said:

Another thing, real life is nothing like pony land, I wouldn't really compare the two. We don't see nearly as much suffering/poverty like we do irl, I can expect the little ponies to have more opportunities.

 

We barely see any suffering and poverty because Celestia and Luna are doing a good job at preventing that. But, attacks on settlements are frequent for ponies compared to us IRL. 

[They call me Loyalty 1,948]

Twilight pretty much outshines every single pony, on every possible way. I'm gonna be honest, she's my favourite character ever. As it should be yours too. Why?

Well... despite she being blatantly better.

Twilight is way more spontaneous than rainbow dash, more honest and reliable than applejack, she's also more charismatic than pinkie pie, way more sensitive and caring than fluttershy. She's the very avatar of creativity, way beyond rarity. And her purplish color is prettier than Spike's.

Not only that, she's got bigger wings, and a crown too!

She's pretty special, isn't she?

 

Sorry Just tried to give an answer, reflecting an attitude similar to yours.

 

I believe the problem might be related with you, rather than twilight. This being the reason why I made up a somehow opposite perspective to yours.

 

This is the "feeling" of your question. How does it feel?

 

Edited May 19, 2015 by They call me Loyalty