Luna's self punishment, lessons, and Alicon headcanon

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Sorry the title isn't specific. After watching "do princesses dream of magic sheep?" My mind is still reeling in "wtf" mode....

 

So anyway, on to the topic. Sweet Luna, where do I even start? Ok, I feel like I need to ask whether or not this recent episode killed the headcanons of Alicorns for some people...I know that so many tend to visualise Alicorns like Sunbutt and Luna as these all powerful, undefeatable, immortal Goddesses, and this episode, to me, flipped that on its head, with how Luna struggled to create the same dream for every pony in town. That shows that she, even as an alicorn, isn't all-powerful, and that her magic is infinite or unlimited in its ability. Nor, as seen in the episodes with Chrysalis- is Sunbutt's, who couldn't take her on horn to horn in a magic duel.

 

Next, what are you guys thoughts on Luna creating the Tantabus in order to give her the same nightmare every night, in order to punish herself as Nightmare Moon? To me, this seems like a harsh punishment, even after Sunbutt had claimed to forgive her, I episode 2 of season 1. What's more surprising is Luna opting to punish herself, when the situation of her becoming Nightmare moon, to me at least, was more Sunbutt's fault, for overshadowig Luna to that extent, and not noticing or caring, or addressing how Luna might've felt, before she let her jealousy take over.

 

Does anyone suppose that Sunbutt also creates magic things to punish herself, for not being there for Luna, in her greif and anger, like Luna created the Tantabus, for herself?

 

What are you your thoughts on 1,000+ year old ponies having to address these kinds of lessons, like learning to let go of your past and not punish yourself for things you've been forgiven for (which you'd think they wouldn't have to be taught at this point in their lives)?

[Daring_Do 552]

What are you your thoughts on 1,000+ year old ponies having to address these kinds of lessons, like learning to let go of your past and not punish yourself for things you've been forgiven for (which you'd think they wouldn't have to be taught at this point in their lives)?

Well, to be fair, if I'm right in my thinking that their ages are only a little over 1000... Luna didn't exactly have much chance for learning during most of those 1000+ years.

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

Even from Lunar Eclipsed it's apparent that Princess Luna has more of a strict character and people like that (the non-hypocritical kind) do not spare themselves from their own standards. In fact, with Princess Luna being a princess and all, it's not all that unlikely that she holds herself to a higher standard than common ponies (she does seem to take her duties and responsibilities as a princess very seriously, doesn't she?).

 

Extreme? Yes -- but very much in her character.

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Well, to be fair, if I'm right in my thinking that their ages are only a little over 1000... Luna didn't exactly have much chance for learning during most of those 1000+ years.

granted, she spent 1k years on the moon, but before she was banished, she was very clearly an adult, around the same height and age as Sunbutt, and at least a couple hundred years old, if anything. Seems rather questionable that she wouldn't have learned such a lesson during that time. Or are we to assume that Luna is such a perfectionist that she has never made a mistake in all her years, that she just never had to opportunity to blame herself for her actions, until the NMM incident- which, again, wasn't even entirely her own fault?

[Daring_Do 552]

granted, she spent 1k years on the moon, but before she was banished, she was very clearly an adult, around the same height and age as Sunbutt, and at least a couple hundred years old, if anything. Seems rather questionable that she wouldn't have learned such a lesson during that time. Or are we to assume that Luna is such a perfectionist that she has never made a mistake in all her years, that she just never had to opportunity to blame herself for her actions, until the NMM incident- which, again, wasn't even entirely her own fault?

Not even a couple hundred years old by my thinking. I see them as having been fillies at the start of Journal of the Two Sisters, and considering Starswirl was alive then and still alive after Luna's banishment...

[Nyan Neon 50]

I don't really like Luna that much (mainly because she's overrated), but this episode made her fans more tolerable to me, since I have to admit that she is indeed a good character  :comeatus:

[Prince Firemane 309]

This didn't really do anything to my Alicorn headcanon, I always figured there were limits to their power. Though I can't help but wonder if Celestia would've had more power and would've been able to hold up the collective dream better. But since Celestia doesn't have any dream magic, I suppose that point is moot.

 

Luna's punishment for herself was indeed harsh, but not out of character. As Spike learned, everyone else's forgiveness doesn't mean a damn thing if you don't forgive yourself. She felt so bad for her time as Nightmare Moon and so fearful that she would give into temptation again that she felt it was necessary. It was tragic, no doubt about it. But it showed tremendous growth for Luna, especially when she was finally able to let go of her guilt and forgive herself.

 

You also bring up an interesting point, I have no doubt that Celestia has some self-loathing for her own actions. However, I think if she does mentally punish herself like Luna did, it would be secondary. I believe her primary "punishment" was being forced to go through the Summer Sun Celebration with a smile. After all, all the Celebration was to her was just a terrible reminder that she had to banish her own sister.

 

I like the idea of the Princesses learning lessons like this. It just proves that even though Luna and Celestia are 1000+ years old, they're still fallible and it proves that no one, not even the Alicorns, stops learning.

[KillerKingBakudan 702]

You seem to be triviliazing a behavioral problem that's common for 85% of our own population. Luna's self-esteem was low. Not even authority figures are immune to it. She probably felt like she didn't deserve her title or her powers, and she's been hiding it, or simply hasn't realized it herself in all those years. No matter what others tell you, forgiving yourself can be hard, especially when you know that your actions caused something terrible to happen.

 

That would also explain why she had a hard time keeping everyone in Ponyville in the same dream. You can only do so much if your confidence and sense of self-worth are inadequate.

[cider float 2,538]

They didn't bring out the lesson properly here but a good one could of been Luna should of talked about it or something and tried to compensate for it by being more active in gaining the trust of her subjects to make herself feel better.

 

Because what has she done so far that had her say that she's sorry to the folks? If she attempted a way to say she's going to try and gain their trust again she might have done away with her guilt or lessened it at least.

Edited July 11, 2015 by cider float

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

I was crying when Luna was expressing guilt over what happened and stating that she punishes herself for what she did as Nightmare Moon, I definitely think now Luna can move on from her past and the mistakes made.

[cider float 2,538]

She could just ask Celestia to give her a spanking. Can't just deal with this the traditional way.

[darkwingmare 1,321]

To be honest, I think this is a really relatable episode for many. What she was doing, was basically self-harming, in the "magical" way she did. Many people self-harm to punish themselves or feel "better" for a while, for what they've done or for how bad they feel.

This episode showed that self-harm only leads to worse matters, it only grows more within you the more you hurt yourself as punishment. Trust others that trust in you, but most importantly, trust in yourself.

 

I can relate to this, I have self-harmed before because I wanted to punish myself for nothing I really had to punish myself for... It was back when it was really chaotic in my family and I had to act up as the responsible one for my mother.. Because she had literally lost it. I always did it to punish myself because I thought I didn't do good enough for my family. It was stupid and I regret doing that to myself even up 'til today. I learned to trust my mother(since she got better eventually) and my surroundings and promised my loved ones to never do it again, and I never did. Luna put too much responsibility on her shoulders and her pressure only grew on her, I can relate so much to her.

 

I can also relate to her in a way that she has so many nightmares. I constantly have nightmares too, and I cannot get rid of them, unlike her. I still know how it must have felt for her to punish herself that way every night. We all know nightmares, they are horrible and to constantly have them gives you a fear of falling asleep. No wonder she constantly liked to visit other ponies dream, helping them out instead of focusing to sleep herself. She is really such a precious Princess. <333

 

Now I really opened up in this post, however, yes, this was an amazing episode. It tackled things not many other shows have done, in a good way. It was hilarious and also very touchy-feely. And not to mention how very relatable it was to some people. 

 

Oh and to respond to the "Celestia maybe punishes herself too" question, I don't think she does. She may feel guilt over things, much like probably Cadance and Twilight does too. But they are different kind of Princesses. Luna never really learned how to be accepted, trusted and loved like the other Princesses always have known, except for Twilight. But she has her friends to constantly remind her how much they trust in her. Luna has herself and Celestia most of the time, she hasn't understood quite until now, how free she really is from her past. It was a great episode, it really was. PRAISE!

[ManaMinori 4,145]

She could just ask Celestia to give her a spanking. Can't just deal with this the traditional way.

yeah, that wouldn't be awkward at all.....

I was crying when Luna was expressing guilt over what happened and stating that she punishes herself for what she did as Nightmare Moon, I definitely think now Luna can move on from her past and the mistakes made.

I, personally, didn't think it was anything worth crying over, but I'm not much of a cryer.. (stressful emotional breakdowns and the SUPER RARE anime/ movie/ tv show excluded) but don't get me wrong, Luna putting herself in that situation IS sad, espesially when it's your favorite character doing so. Sunbutt needs t take the blame, though, not Luna. So she shouldn't have had to punish herself like that

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

yeah, that wouldn't be awkward at all.....

I, personally, didn't think it was anything worth crying over, but I'm not much of a cryer.. (stressful emotional breakdowns and the SUPER RARE anime/ movie/ tv show excluded) but don't get me wrong, Luna putting herself in that situation IS sad, espesially when it's your favorite character doing so. Sunbutt needs t take the blame, though, not Luna. So she shouldn't have had to punish herself like that

I was mainly crying because I'm an emotional person and in my opinion it was an emotional scene, plus Luna is my favorite princess so seeing her upset and punishing herself was hard to watch.

[GuyNamedEarl 1,332]

She could just ask Celestia to give her a spanking. Can't just deal with this the traditional way.

That's how most of Celstia x Luna fan fics start

[manic 121]

That's how most of Celstia x Luna fan fics start

 

Your avatar is extremely appropriate for this comment

 

But on the main topic, this marks the first appearance of a MALE Alicorn! Even if it was just a dream. Still...

 

[Grepper 3,192]

It's surprising that they were able to put a moral that alluded to self-harm in this show. I also wonder if this moral is even relevent to the show's target audience.