S05:E25+26 - The Cutie Re-Mark

[Varrack 1,080]

Honestly I didn't want to see Starlight redeemed in this one beforehand, but they pulled it off so well that I'm actually glad she was. It took her realizing that friendships often don't go wrong (like her friendship with Sunburst did) and that Twilight's friends were very important to the fate of Equestria.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

It makes sense that she joins their circle because she's not a manipulative jerk by nature, like Discord was. She's a pony who's been hurt, and was trying to change the world around her so she, and others, don't have to experience that hurt again.

 

And that makes everything she did to them excusable? That makes her worthy of their trust and their friendship right away?

 

I don't give a damn how hurt Starlight was, there is absolutely nothing that justified her actions towards them and there's no reason whatsoever as to why they shouldn't hold it against her. 

[cider float 2,537]

When Starlight brought them to her past and saw her village, I was getting ready to get hit with the feels.

 

Instead I just got hit with the meh.

[Karma Lightwing 245]

I see what a lot of people think about the episode and that made me think, the reason some of us cant really feel that the redemption or identify with that turn on the end is cause we never had the time to get to know any of Starlight Glimmers past beside that. Why did she end up as far as making the village and how did she learn that magic, was that lonelyness the only reason or was there something more behind it? I always imagined from the first episode that she would come back and we would see a big behind the scenes plot that was meant to overthrow Equestria... no instead she was just a lonely pony that had justified it all with equality being the only possibility of her being happy. I get kinda what they were doing, but I think that the overall story of this season from the first two episodes and the finale just didn't overlap too well.
 

[NavelColt 22,879]

'We're going to LIKE her, aren't we...'

 

I had a feeling Starbutt was going to join Team Friendship, but just how they went about doing it was more epic than any of the cynical ideas I had in mind, for sure - of which I am obviously very happy about. That said I'm not quite sure which finale is my favorite anymore, but I have to say this one gives Tirek's a run for its money. Where S4F had a bad-ass new villain, Discord and DBZ fighting, S5F has villain domination timelines, Zecora vs Chrysalis and quite possibly the largest supply of GIF image material of any finale yet.

 

What to say. Well, I loved this finale. The time travel concept was displayed in a mysterious, powerful yet elusive way, and it allowed ten million fanfics and fan arts to be born (and many more confirmed) as we got to see six alternate timelines of villain victories, three of which got heavy elaboration.

 

Furthermore, it's amazing to see Sombra and Chrysalis again. Both of them have been in the comics since their show debuts, but we've all been waiting to see a comeback in the show. While maybe not the same kind of comeback as we've been hoping for, I think everyone can attest to say that it's equally bad-ass to see an entire alternate timeline where these villains actually won the first time around. Sombra's Crystal War and the Resistance Extermination under the Changelings was dark and epic.

 

* Sombra has been waiting for a chance to show off the bad-assness we were waiting for, but never got in the S3 Premiere

 

* Chrysalis got another chance to be her typical downright evil bitch-face self, and to have a show-off with Zecora

 

* Nightmare Moon's world was cool as well - it probably has the best gif of all the timelines

 

That moment when you're a Class Level D villain, and you get obliterated by a Class Level A villain like no sweat

 

As for Starlight, I found it interesting that it took five full seasons for a unicorn to figure out they can levitate themselves in order to fly...but I enjoyed her through the entire thing. Her backstory does feel rather basic for how invested and dedicated she was to her schemes, but then again, Starlight's entire character, and this finale, was based around the idea that one little thing can change the future an incredible amount. So in that respect, I honor what the writers were trying to do with her character.

 

Last note, Starlight is like a mix between Sombra and Diamond Tiara. Twilight reforming Starlight is so very akin to the Crusaders reforming Diamond that I'm continuing to draw contrasts even now. Truly a well-done finale.

[Prince Firemane 309]

To be honest, I never really cared for Starlight Glimmer, even from the premiere. The only thing that I liked about her was that she didn't back down from her visions because of a simple friendship speech. Which, as we all know, got completely ignored in these episodes. When we were given the obligitory flashback to her past, we were supposed to feel bad for poor Starlight. I don't. In fact, her flashback and the poor excuse for a Freudian reason for her actions annoyed me more than anything else in these episodes.

 

I mean, Sunburst didn't even treat her badly in the flashback. The only "crime" he committed was getting his cutie mark and acting accordingly. That's it. She got hurt because of her perceptions. She didn't even try to continue a friendship with him. From what we were supposed to feel, you'd think a filly never had to deal with a friend getting a cutie mark before them. Well, it's happened and it's turned out just fine much more often than it hasn't. She needed to suck it up and move on. If Sunburst's actions were as cruel as she believed them to be, then obviously he wouldn't have been that good a friend to begin with. But let's just put a pin in all that and ask another question: why the hell didn't she try to make friends after she gained her own cutie mark, when her fears would no longer be justified? Or more importantly, why the hell didn't she try to get back in contact with Sunburst? I mean, she obviously studied something to get her God-mode skills, she could've walked the same path with him and kept a meaningful, lifelong friend instead of just dumping him over something that was all in her head to begin with. The lack of rationality that was suddenly thrust upon her really irritates me.

 

It seems so dumb and unwarrented to me that this was the crux of her motivations to erase cutie marks; which wasn't even relavent to these episodes. Nothing in these episodes had anything to do with Starlight's desires to usher equality by erasing cutie marks. It was all about her desire to get revenge on Twilight and Twilight alone. Which I also don't get. Wasn't it mainly Fluttershy who exposed her and ruined her village? I mean, I guess I get that since Twilight is the Princess of Friendship and Starlight thinking Twilight's version of friendship is bullshit would make her a prime target. But Starlight's motivations were personal, she had a vendetta against Twilight specifically and we don't know why.

 

But all that adds to the absurd levels of Twilight-centralism in these episodes. Now, anyone here who has witnessed or participated in a debate with me knows that I love Twilight; but this was just too much. For me, Twilight's Kingdom was the top of Twilight-centralism that I'd care for, mainly because there was an actual reason ((contrived though it may be)) for the rest of the main six not to participate for the majority of the story. Here, there was no reason at all why they didn't participate. They just simply weren't there.

[Mesme Rize 15,683]

I see what a lot of people think about the episode and that made me think, the reason some of us cant really feel that the redemption or identify with that turn on the end is cause we never had the time to get to know any of Starlight Glimmers past beside that. Why did she end up as far as making the village and how did she learn that magic, was that lonelyness the only reason or was there something more behind it? I always imagined from the first episode that she would come back and we would see a big behind the scenes plot that was meant to overthrow Equestria... no instead she was just a lonely pony that had justified it all with equality being the only possibility of her being happy. I get kinda what they were doing, but I think that the overall story of this season from the first two episodes and the finale just didn't overlap too well.

 

 

Regardless of if you liked her redemption or not. But would it have been really better, if she was out to ruling all of Equestria? It's something that pretty much every villain had on their mind before Starlight.

 

I am actually glad that she wasn't an overblown villain like Tirek, who just said "oooooh, i am evil." And that it was just a normal pony, who obviously was very thin skinned in her childhood and a trait she never really got rid off and she pretty much had very childlike traits until now.

[Karma Lightwing 245]

Regardless of if you liked her redemption or not. But would it have been really better, if she was out to ruling all of Equestria? It's something that pretty much every villain had on their mind before Starlight.

 

I am actually glad that she wasn't an overblown villain like Tirek, who just said "oooooh, i am evil." And that it was just a normal pony, who obviously was very thin skinned in her childhood and a trait she never really got rid off and she pretty much had very childlike traits until now.

its not the whole redemption thing I didnt really take at heart, it was more the fact that as a character we just didn't have that much time to consider her reasons for doing it.

I am more let down by the fact that they didn't give us more time to really feel what she was and could have been. the ending just felt really sudden after that decision and it didn't really come as a surprise really.

 

I ain't saying it was a bad two parter there is just a few things I am fuzzing over that made the  episode feel like it is just  hanging on something good.

 

Overall it was a good episode, It just didn't live up to any of the expectations I personally had built through this season. At least there is enough room to build on a lot of nice story in the next season now and I think that leaving some questions aren't such a bad idea.

[Mesme Rize 15,683]

its not the whole redemption thing I didnt really take at heart, it was more the fact that as a character we just didn't have that much time to consider her reasons for doing it.

I am more let down by the fact that they didn't give us more time to really feel what she was and could have been. the ending just felt really sudden after that decision and it didn't really come as a surprise really.

 

I ain't saying it was a bad two parter there is just a few things I am fuzzing over that made the  episode feel like it is just  hanging on something good.

 

Overall it was a good episode, It just didn't live up to any of the expectations I personally had built through this season. At least there is enough room to build on a lot of nice story in the next season now and I think that leaving some questions aren't such a bad idea.

 

I can see your point of view. I guess it just didn't rub me off as much a you, because i am sure we see more of Starlight in the next season, probably even in the premiere.

 

I think the part of the episode where i groaned a bit, was the story of Sombra and the war. I was never that big of a fan of MLP having any big wars, with technological warfare and ponies with scars in their faces. It just felt off to me. But that's me.

[Karma Lightwing 245]

I can see your point of view. I guess it just didn't rub me off as much a you, because i am sure we see more of Starlight in the next season, probably even in the premiere.

 

I think the part of the episode where i groaned a bit, was the story of Sombra and the war. I was never that big of a fan of MLP having any big wars, with technological warfare and ponies with scars in their faces. It just felt off to me. But that's me.

Yeah that WW2 American themed war against Sombra took me by surprise. I really liked the Commando dash thought as we finally got some partially canon answer on what might happen if a pegasi where to loose or damage their wing beyond repair. Thought I don't think that technology may exist in equestria as of now, Also how did they defeat the other villains like discord and nightmare moon in that world remains a mystery.

[Luffyiscool 397]

The first future's Rainbow Dash was pretty dang hardcore. 

False wing, eye scar, missing a chunk of ear, etc. She was so messed up. 

Kinda surprised the show was allowed to display so much injury.

 

 

Looking back on it, the second future is pretty hardcore in its own right too.

 

Fluttershy and Pinkie would have seriously tried to spear and murder Twilight if not for Zecora.

It gives me extra chills because we know of the existence of friendly & free thinking changelings like the one at Cranky's wedding. 

This version of Fluttershy would still slit his throat in cold blood, and that's a scary thought .__.

[Jangocoolguy 433]

The Good:

 

- Villain-tastic! Villains! Villains EVERYWHERE!!

 

All the weirdoes/in the world/are here right now/in Neigh York City!

All the crazy boys and girls/peacocks! Posers! Show no pity!

 

- Epic, hardcore action!

 

- Filly Fluttershy is just SO adorable! (I think I need an insulin shot)

 

- Dash watching Starlight and Twilight battle (and her "Aww" when Twilight left) 

 

The Bad:

 

- Starlight getting off easy. Like, the easiest any antagonist has gotten off.That should've taken several episodes, not a song where redemption was handed to her on a silver platter...

 

- Her backstory. It's been speculated that something happened to make her hate cutie marks, but...that was pathetic. Sunburst didn't even DO anything, let alone wrong. She just gave up on friendship all together over something that shouldn't have mattered!

 

- Tried not to listen or think about it, but a voice in my head kept saying "Nightmare Moon should be the only alternate universe...".

 

So yeah, not the best Finale. But certainly entertaining and enjoyable!   

[Steve Piranha 29,419]

Well that was pretty good. Though I have to say, this felt more like a series finale than a season finale. I would have been satisfied if they had ended it here as this season really had a sense of finality to it. The Cutie Mark Crusaders have their marks, the Mane 6 have accomplished their goals, Luna, Discord and Starlight Glimmer have been fully reformed. I'm not opposed to more Seasons of FiM but it really makes me wonder what they'll do for Season 6. Really, the only loose end the series has left is Equestria Girls. Everything will be wrapped up once Sunset Shimmer goes home. Where can they go from here?

I thought I was the only one who felt like it was a series finale . I would've been left pretty satisfied if that were the case, I wonder if I would've cried if I didn't had knowledge of more poneh like I did in S3 finale. Then again, I hope next season brings a great finale like this one, which, against all odds (Last finale had A FREAKING DBZ ESQUE FIGHT FOR STARTERS). If this was the last I've ever see in FiM, it would've been a worthy goodbye

[Cloud Strife 928]

And that makes everything she did to them excusable? That makes her worthy of their trust and their friendship right away?

 

I don't give a damn how hurt Starlight was, there is absolutely nothing that justified her actions towards them and there's no reason whatsoever as to why they shouldn't hold it against her. 

 

I don't see why they should if she's genuinely changed for the better. They can choose not to forgive her if they want to, you have a point on that, but if they want to forgive her then I can see why.

 

I never said what she did was excusable. It's forgivable. As long as she becomes a better pony from it, in my opinion, there is no need to hold her to that standard. As far as I've seen, she's learned from it; she genuinely apologized and halted her plot, and if I was in that position, that would be enough for me.

 

Maybe it wouldn't be for you. Maybe you could never forgive someone like that. That's okay. You are allowed not to, because if someone wrongs you like that it is only your judgment of whether or not they deserve forgiveness that matters. Not anyone else's. But the Mane Six themselves think she is deserving of it and since they're the ones she's wronged, then they're the ones whose judgment I will back up.

 

Who is worthy of forgiveness and who isn't differs from person to person. Everyone has their own individual limits. Starlight Glimmer, to the Mane Six, has not crossed them.

 

EDIT: I'm sorry if this post is bad in any way or harsh or something by the way. I'm not really feeling particularly well for reasons that are unrelated to this discussion.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Lady Bow

[Lexamena 391]

Well I, for one, am not going to tear this episode apart to fact check, compare storyline, or use it for future prediction. I am going to take it at its face value, a good episode that thankfully used two parts to tell the whole story.

 

I enjoyed the episode, the buildup was great, but I agree with others that this recurring theme is soooooo stale. We get it, friendship is THE great redeemer. How bout instead of taking the easy way out at the end, the writers actually come up with original content that has substance. Also, I felt the animation for the time travel parts resembled Zelda Twilight Princess' graphics some.

 

OK that's all I have to rant about. Other than the rushed tired ending, I enjoyed all the little quirks, visual tricks, and overall story. Tho I couldn't help roll my eyes at how they took the time to actually explain out the butterfly effect. Duh it's common sense but I guess I have to remember the target audience is children. I felt the whole thing was a huge BTTF reference, and expected them to see their past selves, tho that didn't happen, thank Celestia.

 

Oh and seems no pony has mentioned the Danny Elfman-esque music during the Tim Burton-esque apple canning conveyer scene.

[Justin_Case001 4,881]

So, I'm curious how do you think Rainbow Dash will act in S6 after having learned the entire fate of Equestria rested on her?

Oh, ho, ho, have I got an answer for THAT!  What I got from the episode, or rather, what I already knew to be a basic law of sci-fi time travel, is that every single action, every single decision ever made, no matter how big or how small, can affect the fate of the entire world, the entire universe, even.  The particular event that was altered in this case was the rainboom, but Starlight could just as easily have prevented Pinkie from...like...baking a single cupcake or something, and it may have destroyed the world, too.  Every pony is equally important, and everything they do is equally important.  The rainboom was no more or less important than anything else.  But given Rainbow's reaction at the end, you may have a point.  I wonder if it will go to her head.  What she'll need to realize is that everything that everypony has ever done is just as important to the timeline.

 

Btw, two things I forgot in my main review.

 

1.)  HOLY FREAKING CRAP.  THE FOAL WASN'T BORN YET!  SWEET CELESTIA, MIND BLOWN!  I thought for sure that it was going to be shoehorned into the end of the finale, which would have kinda sucked.  But instead, they actually left it for the next season!  This is great for two reasons--it would have been rushed in this season, and also, it means that there's still hope for some much needed character development from Shadance.  (Sure, I'll call them that.  Why the hell not.)  I'm betting, and hoping, that the two-part S6 premiere will center around this story, and not another Equestrian calamity.  Back to back calamities are way to convenient and predicable, after all.  I hope the premiere is low key and just focuses on a great story with the two of them and the birth of the foal.

 

Side note--you know, I keep expecting bad decisions, and then the FIM blows my mind with awesomeness.  I ought to start having more faith in them, I guess.  I think I was just worried that it was going to go downhill, but S5 has been the best yet.  Woot.

 

2.)  One other little thing I didn't like about the episode--it's a small thing, but I thought it was really dumb.  I'm referring to the use of the blaooga horn when Twilight first spotted Starlight in Cloudsdale.  Why?  Why?!  At least it wasn't very loud, and it was the only slapsticky thing, but it was a bad move.  What possessed them to use a blaooga horn, I don't know.  Waaay to looney toons.  It really was the best two-parter, though.

[Cloud Strife 928]

Oh, ho, ho, have I got an answer for THAT!  What I got from the episode, or rather, what I already knew to be a basic law of sci-fi time travel, is that every single action, every single decision ever made, no matter how big or how small, can affect the fate of the entire world, the entire universe, even.  The particular event that was altered in this case was the rainboom, but Starlight could just as easily have prevented Pinkie from...like...baking a single cupcake or something, and it may have destroyed the world, too.  Every pony is equally important, and everything they do is equally important.  The rainboom was no more or less important than anything else.  But given Rainbow's reaction at the end, you may have a point.  I wonder if it will go to her head.  What she'll need to realize is that everything that everypony has ever done is just as important to the timeline.

 

I don't know, given that everyone's gotten tired of Boastful Rainbow episodes, I doubt they're going to have a retread of the same lesson. She might low-key feel good about it (and perhaps bring it up in the occasional conversation), but it doesn't seem like she'd boast about it like she used to in the previous seasons. Besides, Rainbow is the kind of pony who does actually recognize other ponies' accomplishments and values all of her friends equally. (see: this hot minute) She may be the kind of pony to see herself as the best at what she does, but she thinks her friends are the best at what they do.

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

People might say that Starlight's motives were weak but... I think that's missing the bigger picture.

 

Doesn't anyone find it at all weird that Starlight at such a tender age seemed to have absolutely nopony to turn to? Did she truly grow up feeling alone and rejected? I mean, doesn't she have, I don't know, something called a family? Either her family was too out of touch for her to confide in or she didn't even have one. Either way, it's pretty disturbing. 

 

No wonder she's off her rocker.

[cybershocker455 324]

I liked the episode. I didn't love it as much as season 4's finale, I thought it had some good ideas and executed them well for the most part. I knew Starlight was gonna reform but honestly it could've been done better. I think they should've gone more into detail with Starlight's backstory, I hope the upcoming book fixes it. Overall a good season finale and I can't wait to see what kind of role Starlight Glimmer will have in the future.

[Nikola Xerdav 88]

um... okay, considering it's Josh Haber, and there is no indication that Mitch and Meghan held his hand this time around, at least according to the credits... this was pretty good... but... plot holes, plot holes everywhere. one plot hole is tied to a previous plot hole dealing with Chrysalis, but i guess they gave up the hypocritical notion that changlings feed on love, since they half-ass their job at being sneaky, and you would think that they would be more like that one siren chick from Rainbow rocks about obtaining their food source.

 

anyway, i don't feel like opening that can of worms, i'm sure Antony C on youtube grilled way more out of A Canterlot Wedding than i could ever think to nit pick about, so moving on...

 

a lot of what happens is kind of partially justified with how the time paradox was explained, yet not thoroughly; i will need to rewatch to recall everything, but first of all, if Fluttershy needed that race to get her to visit the ground (well, falling to her near death technically) then how come she is well integrated in nature, in every instance of her in the altered present? not to mention, if AJ never was inspired to go back home to work on the farm, then why was she there the first time back?

 

why did the scroll disappear into the time portal after they resolved things with Starlight?

 

complaints aside, this was a really badass episode, and it wasn't like "dumb badass" like the Tirek episode, where it's just some 2 bit bad guy you would find in a NES game. though it felt a bit bent over the aesop, it wasn't too contrived. the various scenarios that occurred, though a bit questionable in terms of consistent backplot, were fun and interesting surreal realities.

 

though one forced situation that bugged me is, Twilight has fought Tirek, granted, with the powers of like 3 other alicorns, but even so, she can't face 2 timber wolves? she really needed to lure Nightmare Moon to help her with that? and run the risk that her immense power, the power that overthrew Celestial herself, would have maybe screwed her over? yeah, that was a little pointless, just to give us fan service of like "this is what it would be like if Nightmare Moon won" scenario.

 

i rather would have seen more Discord, that was shorted. and it's funny that the only thing Tirek apparently wanted to do was run around shooting lasers at stuff, like really? he has the mind of a 15 year old boy who got Battlefield Bad Company 2 to play multiplayer just so he could blow up and level all the buildings.

 

i also was bothered by Twilight saying "each future was worst than the last", but the last one was just the Flim Flam brothers industrializing the land, i mean, that isn't that bad, maybe it's a shitty monopoly or something, who knows, but i'm pretty sure that, idk, Tirek destroying the world to oblivion, or eternal night under a Korean dictator like Nightmare Moon, or even being enslaved by Sombra, or eaten by changelings would be worse than "industrial age Ponyville".

 

but yeah, this was a cool episode despite it's flaws and questionable plot themes.

[BlackWater627 700]

People might say that Starlight's motives were weak but... I think that's missing the bigger picture.

 

Doesn't anyone find it at all weird that Starlight at such a tender age seemed to have absolutely nopony to turn to? Did she truly grow up feeling alone and rejected? I mean, doesn't she have, I don't know, something called a family? Either her family was too out of touch for her to confide in or she didn't even have one. Either way, it's pretty disturbing. 

 

No wonder she's off her rocker.

 

Glad I'm not the only one thinking that. It's easy to underestimate what effect seemingly small events can have in the lives and minds of those younger than us. Especially if you're an adult and the other person is a child. I remember some of my own past as a kid. Looking back, I definitely can say there were some things that happened to me when I was six that formed how I thought of others and looked at life. I don't necessarily mean bad things either. Small things to an adult can be very big to a child. If there were problems with Starlight's family life or other relationships went badly then that only complicates the issue. 

 

I would say that it's actually this mentality of "oh that was petty" that makes otherwise insignificant issues into big ones. Conflict comes easy when people stop caring about each other. 

[Luffyiscool 397]

I feel like people aren't appreciating all of the subtlety and nuance to Starlight's redemption, keen to over simplify it and gloss over it because they don't like the decision to reform her. If you actually look over the dialogue again, it's incredibly deep and one of the best back and forth speeches i've seen. This whole episode is full of depth and obvious love that some fans are too jaded to appreciate anymore.

"villuns is villuns, gimme more dbz lasers rawr"
"good guy now? sux"
"DERP, WHAT IS THE THEME OF THIS SHOW AGAIN? DERPITY DERP"

Seriously, ffs.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

Every time. Every . . . . single . . . time! They just keep TOPPING themselves! 

 

EVERY TIME!

 

 

Okay more constructively:

 

-The alternate timelines went places in a "blink and you'll miss it" fashion that I didn't believe they would go and by themselves felt fully fleshed out for however briefly we see them.

 

-The tone has been dark and serious before, but this was almost Crisis on Infinite Earths levels of apocalyptic!

 

-The time loop fight was something straight out of parable sci-fi and epic myth. Not in visual as much as in concept.

 

"Be we two immortals locked in an epic battle that will go on till Judgment Day and trumpets sound?"

 

"Or you could surrender."

 

AND SHE DOES!

 

-On that note, Starlight reforms but not in the "blast with happy feels to make you better" sense, but in a believable dialogue. It reminded me of a Star Trek or fittingly Doctor Who resolution to the problem.

 

-Reminding us of why Nightmare Moon had to be stopped before she was a threat.

 

-The designs. Really they did a fantastic job on making each timeline seem distinct in it's evil with a color wash for each villain. Sombra = Dark, almost blood red. Chrysallis = sickly green. Nightmare Moon = sapphire blue

 

I only have one critique . . . . The Flim Flam brothers? Really? Why stop there? Why not have an alternate universe where Diamond Tiara doesn't turn around and ends up buying all of Ponyville or something? (Half-joking)

Edited November 30, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Luffyiscool 397]

This week's mini PMV, the lyrics of which are meant to be sang from Starlight to Twilight.

[The Nth Doctor 661]

Thinking about it, I realized...

 

It's all one timeline

 

Every time Twilight goes back after Starlight sabotages Dash, the future turns more and more bleak until it's nothing but an ashen Wasteland