spoiler So...Celestia and Luna weren't born alicorns?

[Silver Stream. 708]

Mind you, I'm still watching the episode. But it seems they weren't knowledgeable about alicorns by birth.

 

 

Also, I really like Sunburt's design and color palette. Starlight's new mane style and I love the obvious joke at the beginning "the castle looked so much smaller from the outside". Good one.....(just had to get that out my system.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I know, I found that weird myself :/
Maybe they'll just ignore that in the future and have it be just a flub of dialogue, but I thought celestia and Luna were born alicorns too :/

[Overlord0909 479]

I guess not.  I don't understand why or why not persay, but I guess it clears up some beliefs.

I mean, Twi is one because of her great achievement, so why not with Celestia and Luna? Candace has already been said to have achieved hers as well, so in all cases it actually seems more odd if they didn't as well. Besides, they did have parents right? They are sisters, and so the history can maybe stretch back even further than what even Celestia knows

[INACTIVE USERNAME 383]

They never said they weren't born Alicorns though? I thought I remember them claiming: "Alicorn birth has always been a mystery" That doesn't mean they weren't born Alicorns. Or perhaps it was just explained poorly. Such as if their parents were both Alicorns (If they even had parents) it wouldn't be a surprise that your offspring would be an Alicorn too. But in this case, one was a unicorn and the other was a Pegasus turned into an Alicorn. Since Cadance was turned into an Alicorn and not one by birth, perhaps the mystery is why an Alicorn was given birth by a Pegasus.

Though, they could've just broke all the lore and have something new in mind.

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Considering that the Journal of the Two sisters had stated that they were born Alicorns but the show itself has all be declared they're not born Alicorns, this is a good case for folks to take. When we see a direct contradiction like this happens the show canon takes priority over it. Meaning that the Journal of the Two Sisters point that Celestia and Luna are born Alicorns has been retconned and replaced by the show's take that they weren't born Alicorns.

[Dark Qiviut 22,173]

@@Silver Stream., @@Unlikeable Pony, @@Overlord0909, @@Silver Staff, @@Nuke87654, Actually, Simon caught a little loophole in what Celestia stated.

 

Loophole on that, their exact words this episode were that it was an event "Equestria had not seen" and according to the journal of the two sisters they were born before Equestria being founded, so it's just not something that has happened since them

In other words, naturally-born alicorns existed, may still exist outside Equestria, or may live in secret in Equestria. The Journal canon of Luna and Celestia being naturally-born alicorns remains intact.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Dark Qiviut

[Cleverclover 1,525]

In other words, naturally-born alicorns existed, may still exist outside Equestria, or may live in secret in Equestria. The Journal canon of Luna and Celestia being naturally-born alicorns remains intact.

 

I like that. 

 

But honestly, is there any reason why Flurry Heart being born an alicorn apparently has nothing to do with her own DNA? I mean, seriously...

[Nuke87654 1,849]

@@Silver Stream., @@Unlikeable Pony, @@Overlord0909, @@Silver Staff, @@Nuke87654, Actually, Simon caught a little loophole in what Celestia stated.

 

In other words, naturally-born alicorns existed, may still exist outside Equestria, or may live in secret in Equestria. The Journal canon of Luna and Celestia being naturally-born alicorns remains intact.

Applejack: Yeah. How can you just be born with 'em?

 

Princess Celestia: The birth of an Alicorn is something Equestria has never seen!

 

Princess Luna: It is beyond even our understanding.

 

I don't know, that quote seems pretty telling that they were shocked such a thing happened. Sure we can assume that perhaps they aren't sure how such a thing can work (ala sexy times not producing Alicorns), but I'm more convinced with the wording that Luna and Celestia aren't born Alicorns according to show canon.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Applejack: Yeah. How can you just be born with 'em?

 

Princess Celestia: The birth of an Alicorn is something Equestria has never seen!

 

Princess Luna: It is beyond even our understanding.

 

I don't know, that quote seems pretty telling that they were shocked such a thing happened. Sure we can assume that perhaps they aren't sure how such a thing can work (ala sexy times not producing Alicorns), but I'm more convinced with the wording that Luna and Celestia aren't born Alicorns according to show canon.

 

 

Its possible that Alicorns existed in another realm before coming to equestria, and that something in that realm made alicorn birth's possible, but that it was lost long ago?

[Nuke87654 1,849]

Its possible that Alicorns existed in another realm before coming to equestria, and that something in that realm made alicorn birth's possible, but that it was lost long ago?

 

Perhaps, still that would mean that giving birth to an Alicorn is something that is naturally concieved by what the ponies know. This would mean also for what would cause Flurry Heart to be concieved as such outside of Hasbro wanting an Alicorn baby.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Applejack: Yeah. How can you just be born with 'em?

 

Princess Celestia: The birth of an Alicorn is something Equestria has never seen!

 

Princess Luna: It is beyond even our understanding.

 

I don't know, that quote seems pretty telling that they were shocked such a thing happened. Sure we can assume that perhaps they aren't sure how such a thing can work (ala sexy times not producing Alicorns), but I'm more convinced with the wording that Luna and Celestia aren't born Alicorns according to show canon.

bear in mind Cadance wasn't originally an aliorn. So for an ascended alicorn- who was formerly a pegasus- to birth an alicorn would obviously be beyond the naturally born alicorn's understanding

[Nuke87654 1,849]

bear in mind Cadance wasn't originally an aliorn. So for an ascended alicorn- who was formerly a pegasus- to birth an alicorn would obviously be beyond the naturally born alicorn's understanding

 

It's a possibility now that I've seen this topic. It would possibly be another answer that perhaps concieving an Alicorn without ascension realm is probably even the two Natural born Alicorns lack the knowledge to and have lost the means to learn how it can be possible.

[BlackWater627 700]

 

 

I don't know, that quote seems pretty telling that they were shocked such a thing happened. Sure we can assume that perhaps they aren't sure how such a thing can work (ala sexy times not producing Alicorns), but I'm more convinced with the wording that Luna and Celestia aren't born Alicorns according to show canon.

That would leave a host of other questions too. If they weren't born alicorns then when did they become so? And how? Did an alicorn before them give them transformation? It's all backstory on the sisters that I'm pessimistic we'll ever know. I still want a Tia/Luna episode... :grin2:  

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

 Did an alicorn before them give them transformation?

 

I know you didn't mean it in this way (Your post probably is meaning if they were ascended in the way that Celestia transformed Twilight into an alicorn), but it'd be interesting if a character could become an alicorn by one dying and bequeathing it's alicorn status unto another pony.

[Will Guide 21,325]

Wether born or made Alicorns, it was still awesome to see the Royal Sisters do something to buy our heroes time to stop the crisis!

[INACTIVE USERNAME 383]

I believe Megan McCarthy once answered a question that was along the lines of: "Will Twilight Sparkle outlive her friends now that she's an Alicorn" Later on Megan McCarthy confirmed that would NOT be the case. From my understanding there would be two different types of Alicorns. Alicorns that are born, and Alicorns who have earned their wings/horn. Now from what I'm getting, Alicorns that are born seem to live for thousands of years and have a greater purpose than the ones that earned their place. 

 

"A birth of an Alicorn is something Equestria has never seen."

 

I would say it's more likely Luna and Celestia were not born in the land of Equestria.

[BlackWater627 700]

I know you didn't mean it in this way (Your post probably is meaning if they were ascended in the way that Celestia transformed Twilight into an alicorn), but it'd be interesting if a character could become an alicorn by one dying and bequeathing it's alicorn status unto another pony.

That would be really dark. Not that there haven't been some dark things so far... 

Interesting idea. 

[Nuke87654 1,849]

That would leave a host of other questions too. If they weren't born alicorns then when did they become so? And how? Did an alicorn before them give them transformation? It's all backstory on the sisters that I'm pessimistic we'll ever know. I still want a Tia/Luna episode... :grin2:  

 

True. This topic can lead to a bunch of different possibilities and headcanons for how can either case can be.

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

My theory of Celestia and Luna being magically conceived still stands.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

That would be really dark. Not that there haven't been some dark things so far... 

Interesting idea. 

it's not really dark. It's kinda been canonized, back in season 4, actually. Not so much transfer of status, but Sunbutt said, just before giving the other alicorn magic to Twi, that a ponies' magic can't just vanish.

So where does the magic of departed ponies go, if it can't just be snuffed out of existence?

[Snake 515]

I do not think they were born alicorns, at least, I hope they weren't. Faust said that she planned on them not being born alicorns, so i'm hoping they stick with that.
Idk, I think they meant it in the way that it's never happened before. Ever.

[immblueversion 331]

We know according to The Journal of the Two Sisters that alicorn-kind predates Equestria, just like every other pony race. But when Celestia and Luna said that the birth of an alicorn in Equestria (a key phrase) was beyond their understanding, I'm inclined to believe that natural-born alicorn-kind not only predates Equestria, but may not even be of their world.

 

On another note, yes, I acknowledge Rarity's belief that alicorns are only born when an ordinary pony accomplishes a princess-like task and earns their wings. But do you know what else she said? She said that she'd never heard of such a thing before in "Magical Mystery Cure". Clearly she was unfamiliar with Cadance's backstory, which as some of you already know, is present in the book Twilight Sparkle and the Crystal Heart Spell, and saw her earn her horn, not her wings. And if you find the canonicity of this story questionable, note that the show's staff directed a questioner at an SDCC panel to this very book when asked about Cadance's origins. So it's safe to say the show accepts this as canon. With all this in mind, I don't think we can count Rarity as a reliable source in the area of alicorn knowledge, as awesome as she is.

 

So fret not: there is nothing in the show to decisively disprove Celestia and Luna as natural-born alicorns, or completely overturn current alicorn lore, for that matter.

I do not think they were born alicorns, at least, I hope they weren't. Faust said that she planned on them not being born alicorns, so i'm hoping they stick with that.
Idk, I think they meant it in the way that it's never happened before. Ever.

 

All Faust said was she only ever planned there to be two alicorns, period. Unless I'm mistaken, she never said a word about how they became alicorns. That point was rendered moot since Season 2, as well as any other plans and intents she had after she left the show, sadly.

Edited March 26, 2016 by immblueversion

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

That would be really dark. Not that there haven't been some dark things so far... 

Interesting idea. 

Not really; you can have a character pass on in a manner that's not horribly grimdark. Such as an old character feeling that their time is coming (like master oogway from Kung fu panda) or just having them exhaust their magical life force doing something.

 

Have them choose someone else as a successor and then magically fade away in some manner.

[Snake 515]

All Faust said was she only ever planned there to be two alicorns, period. Unless I'm mistaken, she never said a word about how they became alicorns. That point was rendered moot since Season 2, as well as any other plans and intents she had after she left the show, sadly.

I believe she did say it on her deviantart at one point, correct me if i'm wrong! Maybe I can find it?

 

OH well actually, I looked it up and it turns out I was 100% wrong, she actually DID see them as born alicorns. I'm all over the place today.

[BlackWater627 700]

Not really; you can have a character pass on in a manner that's not horribly grimdark. Such as an old character feeling that their time is coming (like master oogway from Kung fu panda) or just having them exhaust their magical life force doing something.

 

Have them choose someone else as a successor and then magically fade away in some manner.

Yeah, that makes sense. In a less dark way I mean. And you had to mention the master from Kung Fu Panda. That scene made me so sad. 

 

We need some kind of epic movie that addresses the princesses' backstory.  :grin2:

Edited March 26, 2016 by BlackWater627