S06:E21 - Every Little Thing She Does

[Thrond 3,263]

Increasingly I'm thinking the episode's main issue is that it doesn't confront Starlight's actions more directly. It clearly shows what she did as wrong, and yet it seems more interested in the insecurities behind that. Usually, I'd be fine with that, but to an extent the episode calls her out a lot more than Twilight in, say, "Lesson Zero," and her tendency to do questionable things without considering the consequences is a recurring trend with her which I'm pretty sure is intended to be a major part of her character arc.

 

Considering that, then, why exactly does the episode focus more on her failure to understand the importance of friendship than on her tenuous grasp on ethics? My best guess is that the writers consider that lack of understanding of friendship to be the reason for those actions, and while I can understand that - it's easy to care about how your actions effect others when you've learned to care about others - I just don't think the episode takes the most satisfying approach to that development. I'm happy it's committed to that, and I have every reason to believe she'll be better in the finale... but it's hard to care about her anxiety when she clearly has bigger issues, and the fact that we even got to this point indicates that guilt really isn't all that productive for her. 

 

I do appreciate the line about forgiving her and allowing her to make up for her mistakes. That, I believe, probably is more productive than punishing her or just leaving her to feel guilty about it, but the way the episode shows it without directly acknowledging what's up with Starlight makes it, for me at least, not really the most satisfying way the show could have gone around it. I don't think more significant consequences and a greater acknowledgment of Starlight's current issues would be at all incompatible with the show's messages of acceptance and forgiveness, and I think the main theme of being allowed a second chance would resonate even better if there was more here than covering Starlight's specific motivation and having her learn a bit more about friendship. Something a bit harder hitting, even just by way of introspection, would have worked nicely here. 

[Trixie Heartstrings 434]

A random comment on the hangover thing around the end of the episode. I was actually thinking the Saddle Row Review was going to be a pony version of the Hangover movie based on what little I saw of it, I'm not kidding. It looks like they had a reference to hangovers in general, but in a later episode.

[Castle Bleck 19,351]

I liked Starlight a whole lot more than I disliked her in this, BTW.

[Vlazamal 338]

This is my favorite episode of the season! ^.^

[Sonic5421 423]

Remember kids, using mind control on your friends to do your bidding is bad.

 

My sentiments exactly. Starlight has got to stop relying on her magic so much.

 

[weesh 690]

Increasingly I'm thinking the episode's main issue is that it doesn't confront Starlight's actions more directly. It clearly shows what she did as wrong, and yet it seems more interested in the insecurities behind that. 

 

Generally, I'd be with you on this were they remiss, but rainbow dash called it out explicitly and with yelling:

"Well, here's a friendship lesson for ya — don't cast spells on your friends!"

 

Then Starlight specifically responded to that criticism:  

"Believe me, I know. What I did was wrong, a-and I can't take it back. You're right to be upset, and I hope one day I can make it up to you. But all I can say is... I'm sorry."

 

How much more directly could it have been addressed?  What would you have liked someone to do?

[Music Chart Fan 819]

Judging from the synopsis and preview of this episode, I expected not to like this episode, and that was what happened. While the moral of the episode focuses more on Starlight's insecurities about and misunderstanding of her friendship lessons, I think it fails to adequately address how Starlight again demonstrates an alarming lack of moral development which isn't taken seriously by the other characters. As she did in "No Second Prances", except on an even bigger scale, Starlight magically forces the Mane Five (other than Twilight) to do her will, and again needs to be told that doing that is bad, not having realized it herself. However, after briefly being told not to do that, Starlight says she's sorry, and has to clean up the mess she made (with the rest of the Mane Six even helping her), but that's it. Twilight, as Starlight's teacher/mentor, doesn't seem to take this particularly seriously. And it's never shown in the episode how (or if) Starlight understands why magically forcing others to do her bidding is immoral, and what will be done (if anything) to seriously stop her from doing so yet again in the future. Plus, even setting that aside, I don't think that watching Starlight slowly lose control of the mind-controlled Mane Five is entertaining, nor did I find most of the attempted humor funny.

 

To start with the big issue of the episode, Starlight tries to do all her friendship lessons with the Mane Five in a single day, and when there start to be a few inconvenient logistical issues, Starlight casts a spell to mind-control the Mane Five to do as she commands, in order to get those troublesome friendship lessons out of the way. And after doing that backfires (in part because of Starlight's own stupidity, but more on that later), Starlight is seen talking to herself trying to determine what went wrong with the combo spell she cast. So, rather than considering why mind-controlling others violates moral principles, or empathizing with how the mind-controlled Mane Five have to deal with the spell she cast, she's figuring out how she could have cast the spell better to avoid having to deal with the consequences. It's up to Twilight and Spike to tell Starlight that she's "missing the point" and that casting a spell on her friends to do her bidding is "really bad" and not "even remotely a good idea".

 

I would ask whether this incident is going to get Twilight to take Starlight's lack of moral development seriously, but then immediately after Twilight says the above things, Twilight says that she's not mad, but she's disappointed, and that Starlight has been "doing so well". What exactly has Starlight been "doing so well"? If it's her magic lessons, then shouldn't magic lessons and friendship lessons be considered separetely? Twilight's saying that she's disappointed implies that she expected better from Starlight, but on what basis? Twilight says at the beginning of the episode that Starlight hasn't completed any friendship lessons since meeting Trixie, and that's backed up by the fact that her current uncompleted friendship lessons are doing super-basic things with the Mane Five. There's also the other time we saw Starlight magically force Big Mac to talk against his will in "No Second Prances". Was there any discussion about that or attempt to teach her why that is immoral and unacceptable? If so, it must not have had any significant effect, since Starlight takes those actions even further here. There doesn't seem to be much, if any, basis for believing that Starlight is "doing well" with making friends or even developing standard morals, and yet Twilight, after a short outburst, doesn't seem to treat Starlight's actions in this episode with any particular seriousness or urgency.

 

And after Starlight goes and says she's sorry to the Mane Five (since Twilight told her to), it's unbelievable to me that the mind-controlled Mane Five say that Starlight gave "a pretty good apology" and that it "seems like she feels pretty bad", and they seemingly think nothing more of it. Rainbow angrily tells Starlight "Don't cast spells on your friends!", but then Rainbow is the first one to say "That was a pretty good apology". Also, while Pinkie is one of the most visibly angry about the situation, she's angry because she burned some cakes. And far from being funny, I think that can be seen as an insult to anyone in the audience who thinks that Starlight's mind-controlling is a serious moral failing. With that, the episode seems to be saying that Starlight's magically forcing ponies to do her will is so trivial that Pinkie is more angry about some cakes being ruined.

 

If I were in the mind-controlled Mane Five's place, I wouldn't be convinced so easily. How do they know that Starlight's apology means that she's learned why she shouldn't magically force others to do her will, rather than just being sorry that the spell didn't work like she thought it would, and sorry that she got yelled at and has a big mess to clean up now? Basically, what reason do the Mane Five have to trust her? Starlight has so little of a relationship with them that she apparently hasn't even completed her first friendship tasks with them. From what we've seen, a lot, if not most, of what the Mane Five (and even we in the audience) actually know about Starlight is her past as a villain and her actions in "No Second Prances", which included her magically forcing Big Mac to talk against his will. So it doesn't seem like Starlight has built up anywhere near enough goodwill to just be given the benefit of the doubt, as the Mane Five seem to do here.

 

Starlight tells the mind-controlled Mane Five that "all I can say is...I'm sorry", but I can think of something else she could say - why she knows what she did was wrong, and what's going to happen to make sure that she doesn't do it again. I think if I were in the mind-controlled Mane Five's place, those are the first things I would ask. And yet I don't think those questions are answered, which I believe is one of the biggest issues with the episode. Instead, the response to Starlight's gross moral violation is to have her say she's sorry and clean up the mess she made, which seems more appropriate for, say, a kid who was running around indoors and caused someone to spill something on the floor. And the mind-controlled Mane Five ultimately don't even leave Starlight to her meager penance of cleaning up after her own mess. Some posters have said that Starlight shouldn't be punished more because that wouldn't help anything, but that leads me back to these central questions. How do we know that Starlight has learned why forcing ponies to do her will is immoral? And is anything more going to happen to make sure that Starlight doesn't do something like that again? Do the Mane Six, the residents of Ponyville, and anyone else who interacts with Starlight just have to live with the distinct possibility that Starlight might mind-control them if they inconvenience her for some reason? How many times should they have to deal with Starlight magically forcing them to do things because, well, Starlight's "learning" not to do that and just hasn't quite gotten there yet?

 

Even setting aside all the moral issues with Starlight's mind-controlling the Mane Five and how the aftermath of that was handled, I don't think watching the slow-motion trainwreck of Starlight's spell is entertaining on its own terms. There's not much point in going through all of the stupid things that Starlight did or didn't instruct the mind-controlled Mane Six to do. But she ought to have caught on pretty quickly that they do literally what she says and only what she says after the first couple of times, and then given very clear instructions in the future, and thought back to make sure that the instructions she gave couldn't have been taken the wrong way. Instead she just continues to blunder around, giving careless orders even after she's obviously seen what the problem with that should be.

 

Part of the problem, though, is that it's not even clear how the spell works. For example, I'm not sure how Pinkie was able to make so many cakes in Twilight's kitchen. It's hard to believe that Twilight would have all of the ingredients, dishes, etc. in her kitchen for Pinkie to make tens of cakes out of the cookbook. So did Starlight's ordering Pinkie to "just keep following the instructions in the book until I get back" authorize Pinkie to leave and buy/find/steal the necessary ingredients, dishes, etc.? I wouldn't think that would be the case, but then, we don't really know how the spell works. Also, there are some cases where Starlight's orders aren't taken literally. For example, if Starlight's orders were for Pinkie to "just keep following the instructions in the book until I get back", shouldn't Pinkie stop as soon as Starlight comes back? Another confusing part was after Pinkie tells Starlight that the cakes are burning. Starlight is magically holding Pinkie and looking at/talking to her when Starlight says "We need water!", but Rainbow flies by and interprets that as a command to her to bring in storm clouds. So Starlight doesn't have to be specifically addressing a mind-controlled pony for that pony to carry out orders that pony hears? That would seem like a flaw in the mechanics of the spell.

 

Now for a couple of other points. First, why is Twilight teaching/practicing advanced magic with Starlight, to the point that Twilight is preparing "a full day of spells" with Starlight? Is that really a priority right now, considering Starlight's demonstrated problems with making friends and with a lack of moral development? Plus, shouldn't there be at least a little concern about Starlight's magical abilities outpacing the ability of others to stop her, given how Twilight struggled to do that in "The Cutie Re-Mark" and given Starlight's previous uses of magic for immoral purposes?

 

Finally, near the beginning of the episode, Starlight demonstrates a spell that allows her to be in two places at once, but then that never goes anywhere and is never brought up for the rest of the episode. I think Starlight's trying to use that spell to do multiple friendship tasks at once could have made for a better episode. Then she would be casting a spell on herself, rather than magically mind-controlling others, with the particular moral issues that brings. And Starlight could still end up learning a similar lesson about not trying to skip or shortcut friendship lessons with magic by having that duplication spell not work for her for some reason.

 

Now for some other miscellaneous observations:

 

When Starlight is supposed to "try to keep up" with Twilight teleporting to multiple locations, how does Starlight know where Twilight is teleporting to?

 

Starlight used an "Accelero" spell to re-shelve all the books she knocked down, but did she actually know the correct order in which to re-shelve them? Or will Twilight have to actually organize them later?

 

Starlight had apparently thrown her friendship lesson instructions in the garbage. So what, was she so sure that she would get away with not doing any friendship lessons that she threw them away? It might have been a while ago, too, if they're at the bottom of the garbage can.

 

I wouldn't think that a cake baking in the oven would start smoking immediately after the end of its recommended baking time, let alone producing enough smoke to fill the foyer in the space of less than a minute. I'm also not sure that storm clouds would be able to flood the castle in a matter of seconds. But I know, this is just slapstick that I didn't find funny.

 

As Twilight walks in and says that she finally untangled Starlight's spell and got everyone home, she gives a smug smile and says "They're gonna feel that in the morning". That seems a little incongruous with Twilight's "real talk" with Starlight just afterward.

 

Starlight says that she thought if she just kept wowing Twilight with her magical abilities, Twilight might just not notice that Starlight wasn't doing her friendship lessons. But couldn't it be argued that Starlight's revenge plot in "The Cutie Re-Mark" was forgiven, and she was accepted as a "friend" to the Mane Six, on the condition that she make friends and learn about friendship? I don't see how, in the long run, Starlight could think she could continue to get away with that.

 

If the mind-controlled Mane Five are feeling so bad the next day, why did they all gather together to sit and moan at tables at some cafe? Why aren't they at home in bed or something? They aren't accomplishing anything sitting there anyway.

 

I'm a little surprised by Fluttershy and Starlight "returning" the spiders to spider webs in the castle. At least some of those spiders don't belong there, and even if some were there already, do Twilight and Spike really want them in the castle? It seems that Spike, at least, doesn't want the spiders there. Maybe if Fluttershy cares about the spiders so much, she should have them live in her cottage.

[Thrond 3,263]

Generally, I'd be with you on this were they remiss, but rainbow dash called it out explicitly and with yelling:

"Well, here's a friendship lesson for ya — don't cast spells on your friends!"

 

Then Starlight specifically responded to that criticism:

"Believe me, I know. What I did was wrong, a-and I can't take it back. You're right to be upset, and I hope one day I can make it up to you. But all I can say is... I'm sorry."

 

How much more directly could it have been addressed? What would you have liked someone to do?

Perhaps this is just me, but Starlight seems to have a significant issue with considering the consequences of her actions, and I'm not sure the episode really dives into that. It would be more challenging to confront that, but simply bringing it up would suffice. Just make the scene of the mane six angry at Starlight a little longer. Devote a little more time to confronting Starlight's bad habits. Because she didn't even consider she did something wrong until after being told.

 

And as I've said, the guilt clearly isn't productive for her. Perhaps if this were the first time any of this had happened, it might have been satisfying, but at this point, I have no reason to believe she's learned anything. As much as I think Starlight's moral development is implied, the simple fact that she has to be confronted about this AGAIN makes it seem inadequate.

 

All I would really need is slightly more time spent on the mane six being angry at Starlight. The episode does so much to build up continuity in Starlight's bad habits, but it feels like nothing new is being done to address that. While I'm sure learning about friendship will help, it's not satisfying and doesn't feel sufficient, and that makes it more challenging for me to sympathize with the character.

 

It just feels frustrating and confusing that the writers so clearly establish Starlight's actions as wrong, then almost seem to shrug them off. This is the second time she's been told she did something wrong, but prior evidence suggests that she'll probably do it again. She just doesn't think about how others will be effected by her actions.

Edited September 27, 2016 by AlexanderThrond

[BastementSparkle 20,326]

 

 

Perhaps this is just me, but Starlight seems to have a significant issue with considering the consequences of her actions, and I'm not sure the episode really dives into that.

 

 It's not just you, it's been there since the season 5 finale. Starlight basically sent Equestria into a bunch of dark futures, eventually ending up with a post-apocalyptic barren wasteland, and Starlight seemed genuinely shocked by this. She really didn't seem to understand the negative consequences of breaking up Twilight and her friends.

 

 Now, Starlight isn't dumb, and she's been spying on Twilight way before the finale. So, even if she doesn't have the full story, she should know at least a bit of how important Twilight and her friends are, so you think she'd realize that her revenge plan might screw up and do way more damage, but she doesn't. It continues in No Second Prances with her little spell on Big Mac, which she just cast without realizing how that might scare him.

 

 A lot of people seem to be attributing this to some sort of maliciousness for some reason, but I don't see that. When Twilight points out how bad her actions are, she legitimately seems sorry for it. Even when she was evil, it was partially the destroyed future of Equestria that convinced her to stop.

 

 The most recent episode kind of deals with this. I think she's got the point about mind control, and forcing spells onto ponies in general now, but that's still not the full problem, and I kind of hope if there's a season 7, this is addressed with her.

[Thrond 3,263]

 It's not just you, it's been there since the season 5 finale. Starlight basically sent Equestria into a bunch of dark futures, eventually ending up with a post-apocalyptic barren wasteland, and Starlight seemed genuinely shocked by this. She really didn't seem to understand the negative consequences of breaking up Twilight and her friends.

 

 Now, Starlight isn't dumb, and she's been spying on Twilight way before the finale. So, even if she doesn't have the full story, she should know at least a bit of how important Twilight and her friends are, so you think she'd realize that her revenge plan might screw up and do way more damage, but she doesn't. It continues in No Second Prances with her little spell on Big Mac, which she just cast without realizing how that might scare him.

 

 A lot of people seem to be attributing this to some sort of maliciousness for some reason, but I don't see that. When Twilight points out how bad her actions are, she legitimately seems sorry for it. Even when she was evil, it was partially the destroyed future of Equestria that convinced her to stop.

 

 The most recent episode kind of deals with this. I think she's got the point about mind control, and forcing spells onto ponies in general now, but that's still not the full problem, and I kind of hope if there's a season 7, this is addressed with her.

Indeed; she'll stop with mind control and perhaps even casting spells on others, and probably move on to some other sort of misguided activity. I hope that this is a major point in the finale, or at least in season 7. It goes deeper than the show seems to acknowledge. 

[BastementSparkle 20,326]

 

 

Indeed; she'll stop with mind control and perhaps even casting spells on others, and probably move on to some other sort of misguided activity. I hope that this is a major point in the finale, or at least in season 7. It goes deeper than the show seems to acknowledge. 

 

 Thinking about it, I think this could be a good chance for Spike to shine some more. Perhaps Twilight notices Starlight's larger problem, and while she tries to help her deal with it, she could assign Spike as Starlight's "Temporary assistant" to keep an eye on her. He could serve as her voice of reason often, like he has for Twilight in the past. Keeping her on the right path by forcing her to think about what she's doing before doing it.

 

 That's just one solution though, they could deal with it a lot of different ways. But I enjoyed Spike and Starlight's interactions in the premiere and so did others, so this might be a good way to go about it. 

[KatonRyu 1,033]

The episode gets points just for having Starlight in it, who is easily my favorite character this season. I gotta say I figured she'd go the Too Many Pinkies route by using her cloning technique to split herself into five, but the mind rape is also rather in character for her. She actually reminded me a lot of Twilight in the older seasons, which is probably why I like her so much since Twilight has always been one of my favorite ponies.

 

I did have a small moment of 'the pot calling the kettle black' with Twilight asking Starlight why she thought mind rape was a good idea, while Twilight herself did the exact same thing once, but it was still a lot of fun to watch. I'm slowly getting hope again for this season, considering the previous episode and this one were both very good.

[PoisonClaw 8,164]

I wanted to give this episode a chance after what hopes I had for this episode were dashed by the teaser, but even then I can't get over Starlight mind controlling the Mane 5. And this wasn't an accident like I was led to believe, no, no, no. The very first things she did after being unable to control Twilight's friends was to go hunt down mind manipulation spells to just outright control them. It was implied that these spells would only resulting in minor convincing and a strong will could avoid it, except when Starlight had the "brilliant" idea of combining them. And when she discovered she had done this, she ran with it instead of trying to fix it. Oh yeah, I'm sure Twilight will just be ecstatic you stripped her friends of their free will and made them into your puppet. I'm reminded of the comic where something similar happened, and I hated that issue just as much for the fact there was no reason mind control had to involved period. At least here they call Starlight out on it rather than brush it off in the comic, but still...

 

But that's not the only part. When Starlight first showed up in The Cutie Map, she was shown to be a power magic user, but Twilight still outclassed her since she was clearly pissed off Twilight mastered her shield spell after only seeing it once. Then, when she showed up again in The Cutie Re-Mark, she seemed to have taken several levels in arcane, given that not only was she able to utterly rewrite Star Swirl's Time Travel spell in order to screw with the space-time continuum, and went head-to-head with Twilight, who should be leagues more powerful. Back then, I didn't mind her sudden power-up, given that she wouldn't have been a challenge otherwise.

 

However, now she's straight up shown to be superior to Twilight at magic in every way possible, not only matching her spell for spell, but doing it better and casting spells that unicorn Twilight would have had problem doing. Even if you argue Twilight's holding back, or she only good this good because of Twilight, Starlight is moving further and further into Mary Sue territory.

 

And to add on to all that, the mind controlled Mane 5 are beyond creepy! Their soulless eyes, their monotone way of speaking, and especially Pinkie Pie contorting herself to grab ingredient after ingredient, net never moving her head and her thousand yard stare.

 

So, yeah, this episode was terrible and a massive black mark on any progress Starlight had made up until this point.

 

Oh, one more thing... never use the word "chillax". EVER. I was cringing so very hard every single time someone uttered it, to the point I almost gave up then and there.

Edited September 28, 2016 by PoisonClaw

[Ruthborn 55]

I think I like Starlight a bit more after watching this episode.

 

She uses her spells (eg her talents) to solve perceived problems. In this case, the problem of no one co-operating (as she perceives it) to get everything done as effectively and efficiently as possible. I imagine those that work management positions can relate a lot with her situation here and appreciate her solution.

 

Of course, the pitfalls of working with automatons with no sense of independence are also showcased here (as are the pitfalls of working with a group of independents who are all focused on their own things). Very interesting episode.

[Thrond 3,263]

However, now she's straight up shown to be superior to Twilight at magic in every way possible, not only matching her spell for spell, but doing it better and casting spells that unicorn Twilight would have had problem doing. Even if you argue Twilight's holding back, or she only good this good because of Twilight, Starlight is moving further and further into Mary Sue territory.

 

Don't see how a character who clearly has significant bad habits and psychological issues can be a Mary Sue, especially when the show doesn't condone her actions. Don't think I'll ever understand why people complain so much about power levels.

[Ruthborn 55]

Don't see how a character who clearly has significant bad habits and psychological issues can be a Mary Sue, especially when the show doesn't condone her actions. Don't think I'll ever understand why people complain so much about power levels.

 

Apparently any character that is more powerful or more skilled in a certain area than the main character is considered a "Mary Sue" now.

Apparently "Over Powered" means "Mary Sue" now.

 

English.....

[Aurora Storm 83]

Spike and AJ had some good lines in this episode. AJ's various movie quotes made me chuckle as did her mention of the Cider Squeazy 6000.  I actually liked Starlight's regression into mind control even though it makes her seem like she hasn't learned anything from the mistakes she has made in the past. When someone struggles with a certain mind set, it can be really hard to overcome, especially when you don't have ill intent. I found it very credible. Starlight is very flawed but she tries to improve and I find her to actually be one of the most believable characters at this point, which is interesting since I did not like her at all in the beginning when I learned how weak (in my opinion) her back story was.  Also, not to go off on a tangent about it, but I do keep finding it strange that Starlight has the same skill in magic as Prince Twilight, element of magic and was "traumatized" because her childhood friend was so gifted in magic he was taken away from her. She's clearly a prodigy and those little details don't really make sense to me. I'm nitpicking though, because as I said, I do like her character and really enjoyed this episode.

This was an interesting episode and fairly entertaining overall, but I can't help but feel it would have fit better earlier in the season in terms of Starlight's friendship lessons.  I don't love Starlight Glimmer, but I wasn't opposed to her joining the Mane cast, provided it was done well. IMHO, it hasn't been done well the majority of the time.  In fact, aside from Twilight and Spike, I don't really know how any of the Mane girls feel about Starlight or vice versa. Sure that could be because she doesn't appear in episodes unless in the starring role, but heck, Discord appears even less and we still get to see more distinct relationships between him and the ponies.

 

Starlight, on the other hand, appears to be only Twilight's friend (although "friend" might be pushing it, as she's really more of a student).  In this episode, we see that she feels uncomfortable hanging  out with Twilight's friends without Twi, so much so that she has to brain wash them to avoid looking bad at their chosen hobbies. And throughout the season, Starlight has been excluded from every single Ponyville activity (ie: she didn't attend Rainbow's first Wonderbolt showcase, she didn't help Rarity move into the Manehatten Boutique, she didn't accompany the Mane Six to where ever they went in "Dungeons and Discords," didn't show up for the Applewood Derby, didn't try out for Buck Ball and wasn't even present when the whole town showed up to prank Rainbow Dash!) And really, I don't expect her to have a ton of lines, but just showing up in the background in slice-of-life episodes would have made her presence in episodes like this one a lot less jarring.

 

Could it be that the rest of the Mane Six don't like Starlight, or at the very least, don't consider her a friend? If so, I really, really wish the show would actually address this, like it did/does with Discord. Heck, this could have been a great opportunity to develop distinct roles for each pony and further develop their characters. For instance, maybe Applejack is hesitant to trust her, while Pinkie welcomes her with open hooves. Maybe Rainbow finds her annoying but wants to take her under her wing and teach her how to "chillax."  Maybe Rarity forgives her for the whole "Our Town" thing, but their personalities clash. Maybe Fluttershy feels intimidated by her. Who knows! As far as I'm concerned, that ship has, sadly, pretty much sailed.  

 

If this episode had taken place earlier, it could have served as a set-up for Starlight to acknowledge that she feels uncomfortable around the Mane Five and they could have worked on building relationships from there. As it is, it seems exceptionally strange that Starlight's entire purpose this season is learning about friendship and yet she has no relationship to speak of with her mentor's closest friends.

 

 

Just because she may not feel as close to the mane six as Twilight does doesn't mean they're not friends. She's just a bit socially awkward or uncomfortable around those she doesn't have much in common with, that's why she connected more with Trixie. You can be friendly with others without being close friends.

[Regent 77]

All I could think about at the conclusion of this episode... (Look at the comments on that clip, I'm not the only one.)

 

 

Which is fine. That makes her interesting.

[Truffles 2,033]

Twilight's saying that she's disappointed implies that she expected better from Starlight, but on what basis? Twilight says at the beginning of the episode that Starlight hasn't completed any friendship lessons since meeting Trixie, and that's backed up by the fact that her current uncompleted friendship lessons are doing super-basic things with the Mane Five.

 

I think there's a gaffe in Twilight's dialogue there - I thought the events of "The Times are a Changeling" were treated as an "unexpected friendship lesson" for Starlight, so I would think Twilight would remember that and count it as one that happened after Trixie returned. But I suppose it's another case of writers not necessarily knowing what's happening in other episodes in the same season since they're usually written in parallel.

 

 

With that, the episode seems to be saying that Starlight's magically forcing ponies to do her will is so trivial that Pinkie is more angry about some cakes being ruined.

 

Seeing how Pinkie reacted kind of makes me think that in a world where magic is real, getting spells cast on you happens so often that as long as there's no permanent harm done many of the inhabitants simply roll with it and let it go. (AJ sure didn't like what he did to Big Mac, but AJ and other "earthier" Earth Ponies have always had a distaste for using magic to solve problems, so it might still be plausible.

 

 

And the mind-controlled Mane Five ultimately don't even leave Starlight to her meager penance of cleaning up after her own mess. Some posters have said that Starlight shouldn't be punished more because that wouldn't help anything, but that leads me back to these central questions. How do we know that Starlight has learned why forcing ponies to do her will is immoral?

 

You've caused me to rethink my original thoughts on that. While it does seem like she feels really bad for what happened, I have to admit when you take a really hard look at it it's not clear she's really feeling sorry for using mind control again or that her spells simply didn't function the way she intended!

 

 

First, why is Twilight teaching/practicing advanced magic with Starlight, to the point that Twilight is preparing "a full day of spells" with Starlight? Is that really a priority right now, considering Starlight's demonstrated problems with making friends and with a lack of moral development?

 

I still believe Twilight feels a bit of envy over Starlight's ability, especially since Twilight always saw herself as the ultimate expert on magic and magical abilities due to her cutie mark. But now here comes a pony who's cutie mark isn't exactly clear what it signifies, and yet she's just as good as alicorn Twilight (if not better) at casting spells and even writing spells. So this envy might be manifesting itself in this scene with Twilight saying Starlight needs to practice her magic, but what it's really about is Twilight competing with Starlight to see who really is better as magic.

 

 

Starlight used an "Accelero" spell to re-shelve all the books she knocked down, but did she actually know the correct order in which to re-shelve them? Or will Twilight have to actually organize them later?

 

More likely Spike will have to help with that if they're not in order - past episodes have indicated he knows more about how all the books are ordered than Twilight does. Though it's true she's always trying new ordering schemes to try and make finding the right book more efficient, so I guess it depends on whether Twilight wants to reshelve them again with a new layout or go back to the way they were, in which case Spike will probably get stuck with most of the work.

 

No wonder he was so snarky in this episode!

Edited September 30, 2016 by Truffles

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

I didn't dislike this episode, but I feel it could have been better, I did enjoy Starlight in this episode and can see that when faced with situations she usually goes the extreme route to solve her problems. I did like the mane 5 this episode and loved Applejack's lines the most especially when she mentioned the Super Speedy Cider Squeezy. I feel Twilight was a little too forgiving of Starlight's actions in this episode, but it makes sense considering she's different from Celestia in terms of teaching. A 8/10 episode!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Truffles 2,033]

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This still reminded me that I had to pause the video when the episode was on live to make sure there weren't any seaponies in that scene! Too bad they didn't - it would have made for some interesting foreshadowing of things to come!

[Music Chart Fan 819]

Seeing how Pinkie reacted kind of makes me think that in a world where magic is real, getting spells cast on you happens so often that as long as there's no permanent harm done many of the inhabitants simply roll with it and let it go. (AJ sure didn't like what he did to Big Mac, but AJ and other "earthier" Earth Ponies have always had a distaste for using magic to solve problems, so it might still be plausible.

 

Yeah, I suppose this might be a case where I'm just unable to see things from a different perspective. Perhaps another similar example in the show is Luna's ability/duty to enter and alter ponies' dreams and give them advice, which we've seen also includes Luna's seeing ponies' innermost thoughts and even sharing information which Luna and the dreamer weren't present to see (the flashback in "For Whom The Sweetie Belle Toils"). I've been uncomfortable with this whole concept ever since it was introduced. I can't help seeing it as a potential rights violation and invasion of privacy (if, say, some don't want Luna entering their dreams or sharing private information without their permission), and furthermore, one that, as far as we know, can't be guarded against. How could anyone who doesn't want Luna entering their dreams or sharing private information with others stop her from doing so? I can't help feeling that such power could easily be abused, or could cause significant harm, even when used with good intentions. And yet the residents of Equestria seem basically fine with Luna having and using this ability. I guess they just trust Luna to use that power wisely and beneficently, whereas my instinct is not to trust political authority figures with such power. I feel like I just can't see Luna's powers from a perspective that doesn't include those concerns.

 

And so, similarly, I think I can't help seeing Starlight's use of mind-control spells to force other ponies to do her will as a severe rights violation, with downright scary potential for abuse and harm, even without actively evil intentions, and seemingly no way to guard against it or stop it. And these feelings are magnified by the fact that I don't think we've seen sufficient reason to trust Starlight to take sentient beings' rights to control of their minds and bodies seriously, and to take that potential for abuse and harm seriously. And yet, as you say, maybe the residents of Equestria living around unicorn magic just let the casting of magic spells on others go if it seems no lasting harm was done. Maybe that could be the case, but if so, I feel like I just couldn't see Starlight's mind-control spells from that kind of perspective.

[Truffles 2,033]

Perhaps another similar example in the show is Luna's ability/duty to enter and alter ponies' dreams and give them advice, which we've seen also includes Luna's seeing ponies' innermost thoughts and even sharing information which Luna and the dreamer weren't present to see (the flashback in "For Whom The Sweetie Belle Toils"). I've been uncomfortable with this whole concept ever since it was introduced. I can't help seeing it as a potential rights violation and invasion of privacy (if, say, some don't want Luna entering their dreams or sharing private information without their permission), and furthermore, one that, as far as we know, can't be guarded against. How could anyone who doesn't want Luna entering their dreams or sharing private information with others stop her from doing so?

 

That - is a very good point. I had forgotten about the moral ramifications of Luna's dream mastery and whether her sharing the information she finds with others demonstrates a significant invasion of privacy. "FWTSBT" is the perfect example of such a privacy invasion. Even the shared dream in "Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep" could be considered an invasion of privacy since everypony around could see every other pony's innermost hopes and desires on full display. While they mostly were positive desires that would not be embarrassing, Filthy Rich being in that house at night with Rainbowshine was probably not something he wanted others to know about...

 

It actually brings to mind a few other uses of magic that would raise moral issues in our world but apparently not in theirs - the creation of animal life from plants, or turning animals into plants, or even ending the lives of countless clones. Speaking of which, was Starlight's duplicate her "own pony" or was she just a reflection of the original, unable to do anything other than what the original was doing at any moment? Like you said, because the episode never followed up on that spell we don't really know. Having a duplicate that can only mimic exactly what you're doing doesn't seem that useful.

[Missklang 1,053]

I found some pics about the episode! Enjoy! 

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[Grtxkkyz 388]

Decent, not bad, but still pretty much a rehash of Lesson Zero. Would've been nice to see Twilight using a Canterlot voice of her own. And it's great to see more character development for Starlight, who seemingly still has trouble leaving behind her villainous past.