S07:E25+E26 - Shadow Play

[FirestormDangerDash 10]

All hail, Zalgo!

 

All I thought when I seen creepy ink tentacle eyes pop up. Totally a huge highlight!

[heavens-champion 1,905]

17 hours ago, KH7672 said:

Well that's more falling into the stigma that she was right all along and every other character was wrong. Which at that point she was right. Not releasing the pillars wouldn't have changed anything. As for saving the day, that you are correct she did not save the day. If they completely ignored her and went on with the banishing plan, Equestria would still be saved, they just would have lost Stygian and the Elements. She helped to achieve the better ending but the day would have been saved either way. Still that again leads to that idea that of couse Starlight is written in to give the best ending to every character, that the episode can't end happily without her and then the dislike feels justified again. I personally see it as contributing to the group dynamic, giving her a place in the final outcome.

I suppose it can't be helped. On the bright side, she never murdered anyone (for obvious reasons).

[gingerninja666 487]

I know this is an old thread. I just wanted to pop in and give my two cents on certain things about the finale.

So, my read on the Twilight/Starlight situation was that Starlight at no point tries to take control away from Twilight and be the hero. At the end her role was to insist to Stygian that Twilight is good at what she does. For me, Star spends most of the finale realising that Twilight isn't quite acting herself. She's focused at first by her adoration for Starswirl then her desire to make it up to him for her past mistake. It blinds her to things. Starlight noticed this. When Starswirl dresses Twilight down and she sulks off, Starlight notices that Twilight is going off, and follows her to try to cheer her up. It's there that she brings up the whole "Maybe we can talk to the PoS" thing. Most of her big moments and lines come from her trying to point out that Twilight should be better than this, to try and get Twilight to act like the hero she knows Twi is. Starlight's characterization isn't always perfect, I admit this as a fan. She isn't the MOST consistent character on the show, but generally, Star can actually read people well.  It's how she executes things and how she panics or gets wrapped up in her emotional baggage that gets her into trouble, but she can look at a person and generally read them well. She could see that something was wrong and Twilight was somehow acting more like her. Yeah, when Starswirl starts giving her crap it clearly becomes a bit more personal, but for the most part she's trying to get through to Twilight.

Starlight Glimmer: I'm all for pushing the envelope, obviously, but this is pretty out there for you, Twilight.

There isn't much precedent set for reforming villains who are currently at large. Discord was beaten and contained before Tia tried to reform him. Starlight was an act of necessity, Twilight couldn't beat her with force. If she could've she would've. But from Star's perspective, that's a natural thing to do, because that's how SHE was stopped. She tried to reach Chrysalis as well in TWABA.

The Pillars not trying to talk to Stygian made more sense to me when I considered the sequence of events as they happened. In a fit of percieved betrayal most definitely led by Starswirl (as we know what HE'S like), Stygian is cast out. However, they then immediately tell the cast that they were fully expecting him to return and seek forgiveness. You'd think that if all he needed to do was explain himself, Stygian could've come back, said sorry, THEN explained what was going on. Instead he returned and tried to murder them all. In that situation, I could definitely see that affirming your belief that he was the OTHER kind of 'PoS', especially if you lived through it happening.

[Steel Accord 6,660]

@gingerninja666 I don't think anypony was giving Starswirl a hard time for his reasoning, as reforming doesn't seem to be an approach he was familiar with back in the day at all. You're right that, to his perspective, his approach was totally justified. I think the conflict was more that Twilight wasn't pushing for a strategy she knows has worked in the past because she was starstruck, no pun intended. Whereas Starlight, who was once on the other end of the spectrum, is more willing to opt for mercy because it's what somepony in her situation needed and got.

[Nye 1,652]

That. Was. AWESOME! The legendary ponies became real once more. Giving Equestria a new amount of protection. Not only that, the Elements of Harmony were returned to the Mane Six! This easily hits up high on my list of favorite episodes! So high that I have used exclamation points more than periods in this comment!  Overall, an outstanding way to end a season.

My big thought now is: where and when and how will I watch the new movie? I still have 2 days to figure that out.  

Edited February 15, 2018 by Nye

[grotesque_figure 6]

How did no pony realize that bringing them back would also bring back the shadow pony? -.-

[Hierok 11,831]

19 hours ago, grotesque_figure said:

How did no pony realize that bringing them back would also bring back the shadow pony? -.-

Because reasons man... 

Jokes aside, I think they just overlooked that part and were not thinking clear. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Hierok, Scoffer of Music

[Soren Peregrine 4,606]

I watched this finale a while back, but I still can't get it out of my head. I think it was one of the better finales. But it does bring up a question...

What is going to happen to the ponies that were brought back from limbo? Are they going to be celebrities? Are they going to fade into the background? What will their role in the show be?

(I know this might be a bit old but I haven't seen any of Season 8 yet.)

[Steel Accord 6,660]

5 hours ago, Soren Peregrinator said:

I watched this finale a while back, but I still can't get it out of my head. I think it was one of the better finales. But it does bring up a question...

What is going to happen to the ponies that were brought back from limbo? Are they going to be celebrities? Are they going to fade into the background? What will their role in the show be?

(I know this might be a bit old but I haven't seen any of Season 8 yet.)

It is a good question. It might be different for different pillars. Although I don’t think it will be like Luna all over again. They didn’t seem to have as much trouble with the world as is. They even seemed grateful for it being less dark.

[FizzyGreen 909]

Thoughts while watching:
 

Spoiler

Yes... you are bringing back the most legendary ponies from the prison they trapped each other in with the pony of shadows....  ...but also the pony of shadows.
Though, seriously, after that much time they must've learnt to get along. ...wait. Time doesn't pass for them. Meaning between trapping each other and returning would, to them, seem like an instant. Meaning nothing changed if they return... horsecrap...

Also, i was right
How can smart ponies be so stupid?

O.O

Wow.

So... ...

Wow. that's heavy.

The fact that the legends co-exist now is kind of... hm... i'm not sure. Time travel would've been more appropriate.
Aside from the breaking of the principle of the old ancient pony legends and the not-thinking-ahead-properly of everpony i really can't say too much about this!

This was pretty great! Of course, as always pretty rushed but wow! That episde had alot of content any maybe even had the most important lesson of the show, and the biggest one. That friendship is an incredible thing! Yeah, here i maybe felt it more than anywhere else. Except maybe Rainbow Rocks/EqG but... eh. This was strong. The pony of shadows was simple and cool i also liked his design. The characters that were brought back had a really fitting character... nothing in that episode really seemed out of place... the explaination of the EoH was good... it was an incredible episode!

Just...

WOW

 

5/5 absolutely stunning!

[Allen 1,387]

Best episode of the season when the Pillars of Equestria are back that it's been a thousand years! I will say this is a great episode! 

The unicorn pony in the name of Stygian was betrayed by Star Swirl the Bearded for doing something at the Pillars' Stonehenge that he was not supposed to, and he wants revenge against them because that was trouble for him and he was the Pony of Shadows by that time, and he was trapped in limbo by the Pillars for a thousand years. After a thousand-year period, the Mane 6 ponies but not Princess Twilight Sparkle with Star Swirl's book have to find the Pillars' artifacts that was found and located in different locations around Equestria, and they found it to get the Pillars back from limbo but they send the Pony of Shadows back as well, which means they have to find a way to stop him but free Stygian for his betrayal with Star Swirl.

The Mane 6 ponies got their cutie marks flashing again in this episode at the second part, knowing that it is another Cutie Map mission for them for their objective along with Star Swirl and the Pillars altogether.

That flashback was: I know those 3 sirens who makes ponies fight against each other in a village just like in Rainbow Rocks when they make them fight in Battle of the Bands, and Stygian suspected this activity and he tells Star Swirl and the rest of the Pillars to stop those sirens by distracting them and vanish them in a portal to the other world.

The Elements of Harmony was back for the Mane 6 ponies since the fourth season premiere at the Tree of Harmony to give up the elements by themselves! They can use the Elements of Harmony to stop the villains once again in Equestria!

When confronting the Pony of Shadows, they were able to stop the Pony of Shadows but free Stygian from there since his betrayal with Star Swirl and he is kind now. When the Mane 6 ponies' cutie marks flashes again, their mission is successful for stopping the Pony the Shadows and freed Stygian from there!

At the epilogue part, Star Swirl, along with the Pillars, reunites with Princess Celestia and Princess Luna once again that it's been a thousand years! 

[EchoOfCanada95 22]

Does anyone know what happened to the pillars after this episode?

[Sonic5421 423]

20 hours ago, EchoOfCanada95 said:

Does anyone know what happened to the pillars after this episode?

I hear tell that Rockhoof and Star Swirl will be making a return appearance in a couple of Season 8 episodes.

[The Blueberry Writer 278]

THIS WAS EPIC.  I love this season final, in fact, overall season 7 might be my fav, though the other seasons might have my most fav individual episodes.  I would like to point out two things.  1st I noticed Sytgain looks like a Dark Alicorn and he shared lots of elements in common with Nightmare Moon and Nightmare Rarity.  I think from all we have seen with Luna and the back story with Nightmare Moon and an incident with Celestia in the "Elements of Harmony" source book that Alicorns are prone to possession via Dark Magic, Dark Alicorn Magic, possibley some Demonic force that is made before or during times an Alicorn uses Alicorn Magic while influenced by dark emotions, or flat out using Dark Magic or Dark Alicorn Magic.

 

  I think most the Alicorns are gone because they fell because of this inherited curse.  One of these things, just like Nightmare Moon, was roaming around when it fell upon Stygian, taking him over like an evil parasite.  I think this also might be one reason why we don't see Luna go all out in combat, because she could, in acts of anger while using magic, could become Nightmare Moon again or become something else bad.  In the book I mentioned above, Celestia was trying to get the "Crystal Heart" from a Dragon, and in an act of anger, she changed into something resembling Daybreaker, but she doesn't remember the incident.  I think this is why Celestia is about spreading the magic of friendship, to stop / prevent, these things from coming into being or just taking over other ponies.

 

2nd thing, I would like to point out in the Gameloft MLP game, it is a different universe, BUT, they have messed with the fabric of space-time, Fluttershy now is the one that took the place of the Legend of Equestria that stopped the Sphinx.  Some ruptures have also caused some of the other Legends to pop in with some of the creatures they fight as well, from their lands.  Time will tell how this effects the game version of the events of this show episode.  I can't wait too see what happens.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

Do you think Twilight would live it down if she didn't reform Stygian?

[CypherHoof 26,483]

Just now, heavens-champion said:

Do you think Twilight would live it down if she didn't reform Stygian?

I thought the whole point was that she didn't have to - the pillars (well, mostly Starswirl) had caused the situation themselves by lack of trust for the pony who had brought them together; what was needed was an apology, not a reformation.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

1 minute ago, CypherHoof said:

I thought the whole point was that she didn't have to - the pillars (well, mostly Starswirl) had caused the situation themselves by lack of trust for the pony who had brought them together; what was needed was an apology, not a reformation.

I meant would Starlight let her live it down if she sealed Stygian away.

[CypherHoof 26,483]

2 minutes ago, heavens-champion said:

I meant would Starlight let her live it down if she sealed Stygian away.

I think Starlight did a pretty good job in in the Finale - which no doubt will upset the haters. She was the voice of reason much of the way though, first cautioning Twi not to rush into undoing Starswirl's spell (after all, it had been a thousand years - a few more weeks wouldn't have hurt) and then in insisting it was a Friendship problem, when Twi was blindly following Starswirl's lead due to her somewhat misplaced hero worship.

But it was Twi that took the initiative and dove in to rescue Stygian, in the end.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

1 minute ago, CypherHoof said:

I think Starlight did a pretty good job in in the Finale - which no doubt will upset the haters. She was the voice of reason much of the way though, first cautioning Twi not to rush into undoing Starswirl's spell (after all, it had been a thousand years - a few more weeks wouldn't have hurt) and then in insisting it was a Friendship problem, when Twi was blindly following Starswirl's lead due to her somewhat misplaced hero worship.

But it was Twi that took the initiative and dove in to rescue Stygian, in the end.

I'm aware of that, but if it DIDN'T happen?

[CypherHoof 26,483]

1 minute ago, heavens-champion said:

I'm aware of that, but if it DIDN'T happen?

Then I think Starlight would have kept on at Twi to break the spell a second time, once Starswirl took off on his wanders and Twi was more reasonable.

I can't imagine Starlight letting it lie though.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

Remember when Applejack said that there were Apple relatives living in Hollow Shades, and the whole place being abandoned? Am I the only one here worried that the Pony of Shadows might have murdered ponies offscreen? 

Edited June 3, 2018 by heavens-champion

[Cash In 22,306]

Good finale. Loved the premise and the implementation of the Pillars. Only complaint is that the encounter with the Pony of Shadows felt half-baked. Other than that, loved it.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Cash_In

[Senko 459]

Hmmm I think my biggest gripe with this episode is the pony of shadow's saying Twilight is ALMOST as strong as Starswirl. I'm sorry but what? A unicorn aged wizard or not should not be more powerful than an Alicorn given how they're shown in the past. If we'd come in on that I could sort of see it an Alicorn gets the gifts of all 3 races but her/his strength in each area flight/earth heart/magic is not necessarily greater than any other individual. That is its 1 + 1 + 1 not (1 + 1 + 1) * X. Still that aside some interesting things here . . .

Starswirls an arrogrant jerk who dismisesses the opinions and suggestions of others without even considering them because he know's best.

Twilight has adorable expressions when dealing with her idols.

The legends were surprisingly . . . young.

The darkness, ah yes another throw away villain I'm sure. Still there is definately some very nice possibilities here for a subtle villain. But first I think I will take a moment to deal with this comment.

On 5/17/2018 at 10:43 AM, The Blueberry Writer said:

THIS WAS EPIC.  I love this season final, in fact, overall season 7 might be my fav, though the other seasons might have my most fav individual episodes.  I would like to point out two things.  1st I noticed Sytgain looks like a Dark Alicorn and he shared lots of elements in common with Nightmare Moon and Nightmare Rarity.  I think from all we have seen with Luna and the back story with Nightmare Moon and an incident with Celestia in the "Elements of Harmony" source book that Alicorns are prone to possession via Dark Magic, Dark Alicorn Magic, possibley some Demonic force that is made before or during times an Alicorn uses Alicorn Magic while influenced by dark emotions, or flat out using Dark Magic or Dark Alicorn Magic.

I think most the Alicorns are gone because they fell because of this inherited curse.  One of these things, just like Nightmare Moon, was roaming around when it fell upon Stygian, taking him over like an evil parasite.  I think this also might be one reason why we don't see Luna go all out in combat, because she could, in acts of anger while using magic, could become Nightmare Moon again or become something else bad.  In the book I mentioned above, Celestia was trying to get the "Crystal Heart" from a Dragon, and in an act of anger, she changed into something resembling Daybreaker, but she doesn't remember the incident.  I think this is why Celestia is about spreading the magic of friendship, to stop / prevent, these things from coming into being or just taking over other ponies.

I've actually noticed a similar theme in a lot of these villains Nightmare Moon, Chrysalis, Pony Of Shadows. all of these are appearance wise corrupted Alicorns or a Corrupted Alicorn. I can easily see in Chrysalis a dark version of Cadence (feeding on love, manipulating her children a sort of inverse of the power of love). So for me I'm starting to see this darkness as a corrupting evil force perhaps sealed away perhaps just patient and working to destroy Equestria from the shadows. Reaching out to Stygian to turn him against his former friends who betrayed him removing some of Equestria's greatest heroes. Reaching out to Chrysalis to corrupt the changelings and create a threat that feeds on Equestrias greatest strength love and friendship. Reaching out to NMM to shatter the bond of two sisters and leave pony's dreams open to its manipulation. Reaching out to Sombra to turn a bastion of love into a desolate wasteland. Depending on the time frame it could all be a sequence of events.

Corrupt Stygian and remove the greatest heroes of Equestria leaving their students and fellow ponies vulnerable, reach out to luna and leave ponies dreams vulnerable with her banishment, reach out sombra and destroy the crystal empire now it can work through his dreams. If it succeeds great, if it fails it simply withdraws and bides its time afterall as long as its enemies don't even realize its there it can just keep trying over and over again since even its own victims after its first few more obvious attempts believe its their own darkness and desires not an outside force acting on them. Seeking out the lost, the broken the seduceable to create an enemy and a pawn in one until eventually it achieves it's goal (destroyed equestria, freedom, who know's?). That briefly glimpsed hooded figure in the two sisters old castle could be another of its victims.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Senko

[The Blueberry Writer 278]

On 6/21/2018 at 5:13 AM, Senko said:

Hmmm I think my biggest gripe with this episode is the pony of shadow's saying Twilight is ALMOST as strong as Starswirl. I'm sorry but what? A unicorn aged wizard or not should not be more powerful than an Alicorn given how they're shown in the past. If we'd come in on that I could sort of see it an Alicorn gets the gifts of all 3 races but her/his strength in each area flight/earth heart/magic is not necessarily greater than any other individual. That is its 1 + 1 + 1 not (1 + 1 + 1) * X. Still that aside some interesting things here . . .

Starswirls an arrogrant jerk who dismisesses the opinions and suggestions of others without even considering them because he know's best.

Twilight has adorable expressions when dealing with her idols.

The legends were surprisingly . . . young.

The darkness, ah yes another throw away villain I'm sure. Still there is definately some very nice possibilities here for a subtle villain. But first I think I will take a moment to deal with this comment.

I've actually noticed a similar theme in a lot of these villains Nightmare Moon, Chrysalis, Pony Of Shadows. all of these are appearance wise corrupted Alicorns or a Corrupted Alicorn. I can easily see in Chrysalis a dark version of Cadence (feeding on love, manipulating her children a sort of inverse of the power of love). So for me I'm starting to see this darkness as a corrupting evil force perhaps sealed away perhaps just patient and working to destroy Equestria from the shadows. Reaching out to Stygian to turn him against his former friends who betrayed him removing some of Equestria's greatest heroes. Reaching out to Chrysalis to corrupt the changelings and create a threat that feeds on Equestrias greatest strength love and friendship. Reaching out to NMM to shatter the bond of two sisters and leave pony's dreams open to its manipulation. Reaching out to Sombra to turn a bastion of love into a desolate wasteland. Depending on the time frame it could all be a sequence of events.

Corrupt Stygian and remove the greatest heroes of Equestria leaving their students and fellow ponies vulnerable, reach out to luna and leave ponies dreams vulnerable with her banishment, reach out sombra and destroy the crystal empire now it can work through his dreams. If it succeeds great, if it fails it simply withdraws and bides its time afterall as long as its enemies don't even realize its there it can just keep trying over and over again since even its own victims after its first few more obvious attempts believe its their own darkness and desires not an outside force acting on them. Seeking out the lost, the broken the seduceable to create an enemy and a pawn in one until eventually it achieves it's goal (destroyed equestria, freedom, who know's?). That briefly glimpsed hooded figure in the two sisters old castle could be another of its victims.

 

  I am ok with Twilight not being as powerful as Star Swirl, she appears to only be epic powered when using the Magic of Friendship.  Also excluding that specific magic, she appears to be lesser teir than Luna, Tia, and Candence, even the raw power of Flurry Heart seems greater, or at least her magic lasers are.

  I could be wrong, but I see the Magic used to make artifical Alicorns being similar too the process used to make Zoa Lords in Guyver, doing so weakens the original every time they make a new one, and they make them as powerful as needed, weaker Zoa Lords take less from the orignal, while making really powerful new zoa lords uses a lot of power from the original.

  Going off the books, Luna and Tia will live forever and get more powerful as time goes on, ONLY, if they continue to move the Sun or the Moon.  I think Tia takes her time to make new Alicorns so she can regain her power by moving the Sun.   I think she doesn't have to give much to make Tia or Candence because they were linked to diffrent types of magic that is way more powerful than Alicorn or Unicorn Magic, that being the Magic of Friendship and the Magic of Love.

 

  I agree with what you are saying about the Darkness, I think the end goal, at least for the one that made Stygian, is to kill off all life, since he was going to make it perfectly dark and he is hyper hostile.  Nightmare Moon would have inadveratnaly killed off all life is she did keep it Night time forever, unless she used some sort of magic that prevented such a thing from happening.

 

 

[Senko 459]

2 hours ago, The Blueberry Writer said:

 

  I am ok with Twilight not being as powerful as Star Swirl, she appears to only be epic powered when using the Magic of Friendship.  Also excluding that specific magic, she appears to be lesser teir than Luna, Tia, and Candence, even the raw power of Flurry Heart seems greater, or at least her magic lasers are.

  I could be wrong, but I see the Magic used to make artifical Alicorns being similar too the process used to make Zoa Lords in Guyver, doing so weakens the original every time they make a new one, and they make them as powerful as needed, weaker Zoa Lords take less from the orignal, while making really powerful new zoa lords uses a lot of power from the original.

  Going off the books, Luna and Tia will live forever and get more powerful as time goes on, ONLY, if they continue to move the Sun or the Moon.  I think Tia takes her time to make new Alicorns so she can regain her power by moving the Sun.   I think she doesn't have to give much to make Tia or Candence because they were linked to diffrent types of magic that is way more powerful than Alicorn or Unicorn Magic, that being the Magic of Friendship and the Magic of Love.

 

  I agree with what you are saying about the Darkness, I think the end goal, at least for the one that made Stygian, is to kill off all life, since he was going to make it perfectly dark and he is hyper hostile.  Nightmare Moon would have inadveratnaly killed off all life is she did keep it Night time forever, unless she used some sort of magic that prevented such a thing from happening.

 

 

Interesting theory on Alicorn though I can't really comment on it as I didn't realise there were books. I'll need to look into that, right now like I said I'm leaning towards the theory what makes an Alicorn special is they have the gifts of all 3 races and a certain social cachet because looking back they've not really done anything especially powerful. Celestia and Luna's sun/moon link is their cutie mark talent, Twilight's big battles have used either the power of friendship or when all the Alicorn combined their powers in her. Aside from the Tiax fight (4 Alicorn vs ? absorbed pony's + discord and even here we don't know how much Tiax could use of the stolen power) there's not been a lot of huge ability use. Yes cadence shielded the crystal empire for a time but shining armour did the same for canterlot while actively being drained and the princesses do keep getting captured. It would make a fair amount of sense if we go with the idea their power is generally impressive because their strong unicorns but what makes them special is they also have pegasus and earth pony gifts. Flurry Heart could just be an insanely powerful unicorn she did have an easier time stacking those other babies than Sweetie Bell did using the broom.

I do like the theories about the darkness working in the background to kill off all life would explain that barren world Twilight saw in the alternate universes episode, an enemy she doesn't even know exists won there. Also going by what we see what Luna really wants is the same respect/admiration as her big sister. She went for nighttime to force the other ponies to be active in her part of the clock but if she's the only ruler she's actually happy to rule the day.