Josh Haber on Starlight’s Parents

[Hierok 11,829]

Just now, Jeric said:

I understand that some may require that information dump. I refer you to my prior points in multiple posts in this thread as evidence that I don't require such explicit acknowledgement to come to the conclusion I did. 

You mean that I don't take the comics as canon? I do. At least some. If they are truly serious and good written they are canon in my book.

[Jeric 46,836]

1 minute ago, Truffles said:

Yeah, reading over the quote again it does seem he was a bit flippant in his response, and that does make the statement less credible since it's not as clear if he's being serious or not, even if it makes sense logically.

I mostly said that because I already thought it was likely that Starlight (and probably many other kids in the show) were more independent. As a fan of the direction they have taken this character, this may come off as odd, but I still can't agree that less parental supervision excuses the underwhelming explanation of her motives. Not the psychology mind you, but how it was presented. 

 

5 minutes ago, Hierok said:

You mean that I don't take the comics as canon? I do. At least some. If they are truly serious and good written they are canon in my book.

No. I was just reinforcing the idea that good story doesn't need everything plainly stated. Unless I say something like, "Starlight is a pegasus" ... it's pretty near impossible to suggest another interpretation is completely bunk. Though I do like to point out other possibilities that further enhance a character and fit within a deeper theme, or suggest that an idea is poorly presented, in the end ... it's a function of how I look at the mythos of the show that is all my own. 

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

11 minutes ago, Hierok said:

You mean that I don't take the comics as canon? I do. At least some. If they are truly serious and good written they are canon in my book.

The comics can be a bit inconsistent in that regard, the slice of life stories can generally slot in anywhere without causing a problem but there has been occasions where some of the big story arcs have stepped on the cartoon's toes.  Don't get me wrong, I love the comics, probably even more than the cartoon and especially those same big story arcs, and where the consistencies arise it isn't exactly difficult to keep the two separate.

[Thrond 3,257]

11 hours ago, Truffles said:

I suppose we can imply from how powerful she was that the other ponies (both adults and children) thought she was this "weird, spooky unicorn with uncanny amounts of power" and decided it best to stay clear of her. Maybe she was prone to the same kind of outbursts that she exhibits as an adult and that helped drive away any support that could have come from her neighbors?

I still find the "power" thing kinda weird; she didn't seem all that magically adept in the flashbacks, so I assumed she picked up those skills over time, but I guess she could just as likely be some Flurry Heart type. Still, I would think there's a reason that Sunburst went to the fancy magic school and not her. 

As for the "outbursts," I suppose that's possible, especially if she had some sort of latent power like Flurry Heart and Twilight appear to. On the other hand, Starlight's inability to properly cope with social challenges seems like something which would be more expected at that much younger age, so who knows? 

[Jeric 46,836]

5 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I still find the "power" thing kinda weird; she didn't seem all that magically adept in the flashbacks, so I assumed she picked up those skills over time, but I guess she could just as likely be some Flurry Heart type. Still, I would think there's a reason that Sunburst went to the fancy magic school and not her. 

Ding ding ding. 

This is actually the one big thing I've tried to reconcile myself, and it stands as a little oddity to her whole back story. I have my own suspicions that her feelings of rejection fueled some of her passion and helped to unlock her potential, but ... man you have to draw the dots and then connect them.

I don't need things spelled out for me, but there is almost nothing that even hints at how she achieved that level of skill after Sunburst bolts and before she runs into Maud. There is one line about how emotions help focus her magic that can connect to that interpretation ... so maybe more of that. 

14 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

On the other hand, Starlight's inability to properly cope with social challenges seems like something which would be more expected at that much younger age, so who knows? 

This part I personally like because I've known my fair share decent leaders and public speakers who suck at interpersonal communication -- almost as if they are somehow not able to grasp the nuances of one-on-one interactions and are stunted when they aren't able to address a group dynamic. 

She was a capable public figure insofar as she convinced a group to do some crazy shit, but was really behind the curve on relationships. 

[findingbuglantis 20]

2 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I still find the "power" thing kinda weird; she didn't seem all that magically adept in the flashbacks,  

She seemed pretty powerful in that one flashback from “The Crystalling”. The one where she magically cleans an entire kitchen by herself. 

[Thrond 3,257]

3 hours ago, Jeric said:

Ding ding ding. 

This is actually the one big thing I've tried to reconcile myself, and it stands as a little oddity to her whole back story. I have my own suspicions that her feelings of rejection fueled some of her passion and helped to unlock her potential, but ... man you have to draw the dots and then connect them.

I don't need things spelled out for me, but there is almost nothing that even hints at how she achieved that level of skill after Sunburst bolts and before she runs into Maud. There is one line about how emotions help focus her magic that can connect to that interpretation ... so maybe more of that. 

Her season 5 appearances have generally implied to me that she simply learned to be a powerful Mage through intense studying, and to a degree I actually prefer that concept, but that doesn't explain Twilight, or Sunburst, or Flurry Heart...

3 hours ago, Jeric said:

This part I personally like because I've known my fair share decent leaders and public speakers who suck at interpersonal communication -- almost as if they are somehow not able to grasp the nuances of one-on-one interactions and are stunted when they aren't able to address a group dynamic. 

She was a capable public figure insofar as she convinced a group to do some crazy shit, but was really behind the curve on relationships. 

Because if that, I have to wonder how the adults around her reacted to her strange ideas and antisocial behaviour, or if they even noticed her downward spiral before it was too late.

55 minutes ago, findingbuglantis said:

She seemed pretty powerful in that one flashback from “The Crystalling”. The one where she magically cleans an entire kitchen by herself. 

And yet she didn't go to the school? 

[findingbuglantis 20]

35 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

And yet she didn't go to the school? 

Maybe her neglectful parents didn’t notice her incredible magic potential? That could be possible, especially if she shut herself away from others after Sunburst left. 

[Prospekt 10,984]

I've never felt like Sunburst getting his cutie mark and leaving is a satisfying explanation for why Starlight ended up becoming a manipulative cult leader. There had to be some other past event that was emotionally damaging to the young pony and kept her from developing the necessary skills to cope with feeling abandoned. And I think the absence of her parents could definitely have something to do with that. It doesn't matter if a child is in school or not; if they don't have some kind of parental figure who is regularly present when they are growing up, then that can be problematic. Parents or guardians have the potential to be the best teachers and mentors a child will ever have. Even if the child is not homeschooled.

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

3 minutes ago, Prospekt said:

I've never felt like Sunburst getting his cutie mark and leaving is a satisfying explanation for why Starlight ended up becoming a manipulative cult leader.

That doesn't have to be the whole reason, that may have simply been the single stone that triggered the rockslide, we know that she didn't take his departure well, what we don't know is what she did in the intervening years before she arrived in that town.  Sunburst was her only friend and without his company it's entirely feasible that her resentment festered for a long time and she may have blown it way out of proportion, maybe she did try to make other friends but came across as creepy and controlling because she didn't want them to leave her like Sunburst did.

You can fill in that time gap in a plethora of different ways, and you can quite easily bring her to the state we found her in, that of being a manipulative cult leader.

[SaburoDaimando 1,196]

Something I need to throw in.  I had a chat with Josh Haber on the idea of Starlight being bullied as a filly.  If this does turn out to be true, I would like for them to explore the idea of Starlight being bullied as a filly with the following

a: Sunburst was helping Starlight out when it came to those bullies

b: When Sunburst left the village, Starlight was bullied even more

c: The bullying went even further when Starlight got her cutie mark.  It caused her to run away from home.

d: And as it turns out, both Starlight and Sunburst have been keeping this a secret from Twilight Sparkle out of fear of confronting the bullies.

[Photon Jet 5,489]

All the information shown here does explain why Starlight Glimmer went down the dark path. Poor Starlight...Being bullied...alone...neglected...and heartbroken when Sunburst left her. Ponies shouldn't be treated this way as these scenarios can leave bad influences to a character.

I'm so glad Twilight Sparkle reformed her and made her one of my best ponies. What would the Mane Six do without her?

 

Edited November 9, 2017 by Photon Jet

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

8 hours ago, Jeric said:

Ding ding ding. 

This is actually the one big thing I've tried to reconcile myself, and it stands as a little oddity to her whole back story. I have my own suspicions that her feelings of rejection fueled some of her passion and helped to unlock her potential, but ... man you have to draw the dots and then connect them.

I don't need things spelled out for me, but there is almost nothing that even hints at how she achieved that level of skill after Sunburst bolts and before she runs into Maud. There is one line about how emotions help focus her magic that can connect to that interpretation ... so maybe more of that. 

It’s also possible she didn’t think she was good enough. I know that sounds crazy, but keep in mind this is Starlight. One of the core values of her ideology is that Cutie marks make you feel superior to others, and when Sunburst got his, he went off to a special school and she didn’t get to go. He left without saying goodbye and never tried to contact her again. In her mind, as soon as he got his Cutie mark, she wasn’t worth being friends with anymore. It had to have been a big blow to her self-esteem. 

In The Cutie Remark, Starlight said that she thought Sunburst and her were the same, but they turned out different. But, how were they different? 

We saw in The Crystalling that Starlight put Sunburst on a pedestal, he was always the knowledgeable one, and she expected him to be someone great and powerful. To her, Sunburst was the big, important pony, with the big important destiny, and she was just the second place loser who got left behind.

One of the oddest parts about the Cutie Remark is where Starlight said rewriting Starswirl’s spell was easy. Uhh, was it really, or is she clueless about her own magical ability compared to others?

[Goat-kun 2,500]

People should stop writesplaining on social media. Yes, origin stories usually do burn an episode but since they are to be abiding by the show standards this shouldn't be a problem. My scrying was awry. Starlight isn't Haber's true waifu, Happy Merchant is. A most fickle and treacherous waifu indeed, but a better one nonetheless.

 

Parents in pony works are something that is to be waved away by the writer nine times out of ten so it is only natural to invoke their influence or lack thereof as a plot saving crutch or late season theme inspiration. I shall find this global application of family groundbreaking, stunning, and immersive.

[Victoria Sponge 1,014]

It explains a lot, if her parents weren't around and Sunburst was her only friend then that means Sunburst was her only form of company. This would explain why losing him messed her up so bad, she suddenly had nobody again and to make matters worse she had nobody to talk to about it, nobody to comfort her or to help her find a new friend and so she ended up being alone and angry and it all snowballed into the Starlight that almost destroyed equestria. Her lack of real compassion throughout her life would also explain why she has trouble understanding the concept of friendship and why she makes so many mistakes with regards to other ponies (like the whole mind control thing), she really just doesn't know any better and has never had any kind of guidance before. Now Twilight is giving her what she needed all these years, care and guidance, and its turning her into a much nicer pony who actually has friends and knows how to solve friendship issues.

[Truffles 2,033]

On 11/8/2017 at 9:25 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

I still find the "power" thing kinda weird; she didn't seem all that magically adept in the flashbacks, so I assumed she picked up those skills over time, but I guess she could just as likely be some Flurry Heart type. Still, I would think there's a reason that Sunburst went to the fancy magic school and not her. 

As for the "outbursts," I suppose that's possible, especially if she had some sort of latent power like Flurry Heart and Twilight appear to. On the other hand, Starlight's inability to properly cope with social challenges seems like something which would be more expected at that much younger age, so who knows? 

I happened to be rewatching "The Crystaling" for unrelated reasons just before finding this topic (looking for evidence Spike has spooky 4th wall-breaking powers like Pinkie and Discord) and it's like what @findingbuglantis said - there are subtle hints in that particular flashback that she was crazy powerful but she lacked the spell/incantation knowledge to apply her power effectively. In all of those scenes, you see Sunburst demonstrating what the spell should do. Then after she sees the spell, she does an extreme version of it.

Sunburst went because he had caring parents to help get him into Celestia's school, and I guess his one demonstration of powerful magic when his friend was in danger was enough to get him in. Certainly he could pass all of the written tests since knowledge was his thing. As for the practical tests, that's a good question. Is he younger or older than Twilight and did he take the same test before or after her? If it was after, then presumably they don't have any more dragon eggs lying around to test him with, lol. Whatever the test is, I would presume that just like with Twilight the hatching test was meant as a test of character and failing to do so would not exclude any unicorn from being accepted.

Heh, that's brings up an interesting scenario - if he did do that test before Twilight, then it would have been fun to listen to Spike and Sunburst having a conversation about how he'd be his assistant if he'd been able to hatch his egg! XD

As for Starlight, I guess her parents didn't care and/or notice how talented she was. Yikes. <_<  o_o

The nebulous part for me is after Sunburst left, what did she do? I guess I can assume she took up the learning part of it on her own and unlike him maybe she didn't have any qualms about working on the less-than-safe spells - which would definitely cause other ponies to grow fearful of her.

On 11/8/2017 at 9:25 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

As for the "outbursts," I suppose that's possible, especially if she had some sort of latent power like Flurry Heart and Twilight appear to.

When I mentioned outbursts, I was thinking more in terms of emotional outbursts, like the one she had at Twilight near the end of "The Cutie Re-Mark." Though if she had powerful magic, such emotion might cause her to do all sorts of scary things that would  be even more effective at driving neighbors away.

On 11/9/2017 at 6:34 AM, Battenberg said:

It explains a lot, if her parents weren't around and Sunburst was her only friend then that means Sunburst was her only form of company. This would explain why losing him messed her up so bad, she suddenly had nobody again and to make matters worse she had nobody to talk to about it, nobody to comfort her or to help her find a new friend and so she ended up being alone and angry and it all snowballed into the Starlight that almost destroyed equestria.

It seems like the map should be sending the ponies to fix parenting problems just as much as friendship problems - to avoid this exact scenario in the future. Goodness knows Starlight, Twilight, Sunset, and Tempest won't be the last powerful unicorns to be born into modern Equestria.

Edited November 10, 2017 by Truffles

[Lucartini 104]

So they're the reason why Glimmer shattered the timestream like a rank amateur! Six times!

 

[Singe 2,109]

Spoiler

Maybe this would also apply to Tempest Shadow. She just leaves her village.

 

[CypherHoof 26,479]

On 09/11/2017 at 6:46 AM, AlexanderThrond said:

And yet she didn't go to the school? 

Maybe it isn't free, and her parents couldn't afford it?

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

4 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

Maybe it isn't free, and her parents couldn't afford it?

Or their jobs kept them from being able to move to Canterlot, and they didn’t want to send her to live in another city by herself.

[Thrond 3,257]

2 hours ago, CypherHoof said:

Maybe it isn't free, and her parents couldn't afford it?

I guess? It'd fit her whole deal of lacking proper support, but it's also verging on headcanon territory. 

[Jeric 46,836]

On 11/8/2017 at 10:25 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

Still, I would think there's a reason that Sunburst went to the fancy magic school and not her. 

Bah! 

That magic school may have an issue with turning out strong magic users. We know of Twilight and Sunset who were personal pupils of a Princess ... and then just about every background unicorn from Season 1. Minuette, Lemon Hearts, and Twinkleshine don't exactly inspire me to consider that school a platform for creating talented magicians. Hell, we know two unicorns that basically became shut-ins after going there. 

Someone needs to look into revoking that school's charter.

[ShootingStar159 2,155]

On 11/20/2017 at 8:14 PM, Jeric said:

Bah! 

That magic school may have an issue with turning out strong magic users. We know of Twilight and Sunset who were personal pupils of a Princess ... and then just about every background unicorn from Season 1. Minuette, Lemon Hearts, and Twinkleshine don't exactly inspire me to consider that school a platform for creating talented magicians. Hell, we know two unicorns that basically became shut-ins after going there. 

Someone needs to look into revoking that school's charter.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the school’s name just Celestia’s School for Gifted Unicorns? It could just be that the school accepts unicorns gifted in all manner of talents, not just magic.

[Jeric 46,836]

30 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the school’s name just Celestia’s School for Gifted Unicorns? It could just be that the school accepts unicorns gifted in all manner of talents, not just magic.

Could be, but I'm going with the implication that it's a magic school. I mean, the logic about the school is broke anyway, might as well. 

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Alright! How about asking him about Spike's parents next?