Thoughts on Josh Haber regarding the show

[Plonkett 341]

Since Josh Haber was the story editor of the two seasons (6 and 8) that were considered to be objectively the worst, do you think he's the one who was responsible for the show declining in quality lately?

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

I'm sorry, but I take issue with this whole "Objective" argument. If you (or someone else) feel that the show has declined, well I disagree, but that's just an opinion, not an objective fact. 

[Rushing cash 824]

To be honest, season 8 was pretty good overall, my least favorite probably but I still enjoyed. The main problem in season 8 was the introduction of the school and students which they neither capitalize enough nor introduced the new characters as well as they could/should, many people just don't care about them. Nicole Dubac also played a huge part in it, it was her idea to introduce cozy glow and other characters. It all comes down to your taste, so opinions may vary. 

[bigbertha 410]

1. They are not objectively the worst seasons

2. Josh Haber alone is not why things went downhill. There are a variety of factors and piling the blame entirely on one person is ignorant.

[Zantetsuken 364]

I wouldn't say season 6 and 8 are objectively the worst in the show because there is no factual basis for that argument other than personal opinion, but i do agree with that opinion

my short answer to the question is Yes and no 

The story editor is basically the show runner for that season so he's basically got a hand in every script
I hated most episodes of season 6 and part of me wants to forget season 8 entirely. Very few redeeming episodes in season 8, there were like only 2 or 3.
for comparison's sake I'd say season 6 had about 5 strong redeeming episodes

He's okay when it comes to writing normal episodes and in cases like Shadow Play, downright great. But with him at the story editing helm, a lot of the episodes just seem to lack polish

Now is Josh Haber completely at fault for the show's decline? no not really. Has the show even gotten that bad? season 9 (so far) tells me no LOL

I think an equal amount of blame can and should be placed on less talented writers who are new to the show and just write TERRIBLE EPISODES. The most clear example being season 8's Non-Compete Clause written by Kim Bryer Johnson, it's clear to me she has no business (or in my opinion talent) writing pony but she's still on the writing staff... for some reason.

So in closing is Josh Haber the root cause of the decline? yes most likely. But is it just him? no I don't think so. You have to look at the pool of writers as well. 

That's my piece.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Zantetsuken

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Well here's the thing.... things got outta control ever since Meghan McCarthy left. It seemed that when she was writing for the show, there was a more subtle plan and a good balance between characters. Season 4 was pretty much the show's prime! Season 5 was alright, but not really the best mostly cause it was Spike's worst season. Season 6 fixed Spike, but made most of the Mane Six useless. Season 7 was great for the Mane Six, but they underdid Spike again, and most of the attention was brought to Starlight! Season 8 did balance the characters out but most of the episodes containing the Mane 7 were underwelming, and then the Student 6 pretty much took over. 

Now that season 9 is here, I'm not sure what's gonna happen. Will they finish the character's arcs as planned, or will they be cheated again? Meghan McCarthy shouldn've left! I'm proud that she's become Hasbro's Head of Development, but it was her departure that ruined things! She shoulda insured the show would go off smoothly

Edited April 19, 2019 by FlareGun45

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

Honestly, I think that the show has gotten better since Lauren Faust's departure in Season 2. More ambitious, more emotional. Seasons 4, 5, and 7 are the show's best. Seasons 6 and 8 aren't quite as good but are still good nonetheless.

Edited April 19, 2019 by TheAnimationFanatic

[Plonkett 341]

 

1 hour ago, Zantetsuken said:

I wouldn't say season 6 and 8 are objectively the worst in the show because there is no factual basis for that argument other than personal opinion, but i do agree with that opinion

my short answer to the question is Yes and no 

The story editor is basically the show runner for that season so he's basically got a hand in every script
I hated most episodes of season 6 and part of me wants to forget season 8 entirely. Very few redeeming episodes in season 8, there were like only 2 or 3.
for comparison's sake I'd say season 6 had about 5 strong redeeming episodes

He's okay when it comes to writing normal episodes and in cases like Shadow Play, downright great. But with him story editing helm, a lot of the episodes just seem to lack polish

Now is Josh Haber completely at fault for the show's decline? no not really. Has the show even gotten that bad? season 9 (so far) tells me no LOL

I think an equal amount of blame can and should be placed on less talented writers who are new to the show and just write TERRIBLE EPISODES. The most clear example being season 8's Non-Compete Clause written by Kim Bryer Johnson, it's clear to me she has no business (or in my opinion talent) writing pony but she's still on the writing staff... for some reason.

So in closing is Josh Haber the root cause of the decline? yes most likely. But is it just him? no I don't think so. You have to look at the pool of writers as well. 

That's my piece.

Plus the fact that most of the writers in Season 5 are no longer in the show. They could've had a bit more commitment

55 minutes ago, FlareGun45 said:

Well here's the thing.... things got outta control ever since Meghan McCarthy left. It seemed that when she was writing for the show, there was a more subtle plan and a good balance between characters. Season 4 was pretty much the show's prime! Season 5 was alright, but not really the best mostly cause it was Spike's worst season. Season 6 fixed Spike, but made most of the Mane Six useless. Season 7 was great for the Mane Six, but they underdid Spike again, and most of the attention was brought to Starlight! Season 8 did balance the characters out but most of the episodes containing the Mane 7 were underwelming, and then the Student 6 pretty much took over. 

Now that season 9 is here, I'm not sure what's gonna happen. Will they finish the character's arcs as planned, or will they be cheated again? Meghan McCarthy shouldn've left! I'm proud that she's become Hasbro's Head of Development, but it was her departure that ruined things! She shoulda insured the show would go off smoothly

Had she still been at the helm, the later seasons would've been a lot better.

42 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

Honestly, I think that the show has gotten better since Lauren Faust's departure in Season 2. More ambitious, more emotional. Seasons 4, 5, and 7 are the show's best. Seasons 6 and 8 aren't quite as good but are still good nonetheless.

Yes, but 6 and 8 would've been better if the people I mentioned were still around.

Edited April 19, 2019 by vgmaster9

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

Would they have been? Shows change hands and writers almost every season.

[Plonkett 341]

21 minutes ago, TheAnimationFanatic said:

Would they have been? Shows change hands and writers almost every season.

Most of the veteran writers have been in all of the first five seasons.

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

Just now, vgmaster9 said:

Most of the veteran writers have been in all of the first five seasons.

Meghan McCarthy is still involved.

Besides, the new writers have been doing a pretty good job themselves.

[Nsxile 25,672]

The quality of the episodes were certainly worse in season 6 and 8 than other seasons, but I'm not sure if I'd attribute that Haber, considering the worst episodes of those seasons seemed to be from new writers. Also I'm not entirely sure you could tie all of the blame to Haber for the direction of 6 and 8, considering higher management probably had more of a say in what direction the show went, considering it is owned by a toy company. Also the season 7 finale was written by Haber and that was an excellent finale. Admittedly though, he certainly should have had much better quality control of the writing of those episodes and the general ideas and details of it, rather then just seemingly approving whatever was written...

[Plonkett 341]

Just now, Nsxile said:

The quality of the episodes were certainly worse in season 6 and 8 than other seasons, but I'm not sure if I'd attribute that Haber, considering the worst episodes of those seasons seemed to be from new writers. Also I'm not entirely sure you could tie all of the blame to Haber for the direction of 6 and 8, considering higher management probably had more of a say in what direction the show went, considering it is owned by a toy company. Also the season 7 finale was written by Haber and that was an excellent finale. Admittedly though, he certainly should have had much better quality control of the writing of those episodes and the general ideas and details of it, rather then just seemingly approving whatever was written...

I personally think the new writers are just as much to blame, and the reason we had those writers in the first place was because the veteran writers jumped ship.

[Misty Shadow 7,084]

Objectively the worst? Season 3 (which I like) with only thirteen episodes and most of them having mixed responses says hi. One story editor does not make a bad season. It's like how people credit Faust for everything in regards to creating the show when there are plenty of other people on the show staff who contributed ideas as well. I know you don't like Josh Haber, but don't present it as fact that he alone is responsible for the show "going downhill".  

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

The average rating in IMDB seems that season 6 and 8 has a slightly lower rating. Not that this is the ultimate resource, but that's what I can find right now. (most of them I don't agree much) And me personally, I think season 8 was the worst season for the story, editing, directing, character depiction, big-pictured decisions.

[Nsxile 25,672]

Just now, CloudMistDragon said:

Objectively the worst? Season 3 (which I like) with only thirteen episodes and most of them having mixed responses says hi. One story editor does not make a bad season. It's like how people credit Faust for everything in regards to creating the show when there are plenty of other people on the show staff who contributed ideas as well. I know you don't like Josh Haber, but don't present it as fact that he alone is responsible for the show "going downhill".  

Season 3 was the not worst though. It might have been short but had episodes like The Crystal Empire Parts 1 and 2, Too Many Pinkie Pies, Magic Duel, Sleepless In Ponyville and Wonderbolt Academy - all top tier episodes. It only had three bad episodes imo - which were Keep Calm And Flutter On, Spike At Your Service and Magical Mystery Cure, the latter only due to the decision by Hasbro to force Twilight to become an alicorn, for toy selling purposes, and is by far an underrated season. And the show has gone downhill since then, otherwise viewership wouldn't have dropped to the level its at now and this wouldn't be the final season.

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

4 hours ago, Rushing cash said:

To be honest, season 8 was pretty good overall, my least favorite probably but I still enjoyed. The main problem in season 8 was the introduction of the school and students which they neither capitalize enough nor introduced the new characters as well as they could/should, many people just don't care about them. Nicole Dubac also played a huge part in it, it was her idea to introduce cozy glow and other characters. It all comes down to your taste, so opinions may vary. 

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the Student 6 as characters. The problem was the school itself. Equestria used to be this huge place with an adventure around every corner. The school turned that into a microcosm. It was still a good season, but potential became limited. I'm really starting to miss Ponyville.

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

Just now, Nsxile said:

Season 3 was the not worst though. It might have been short but had episodes like The Crystal Empire Parts 1 and 2, Too Many Pinkie Pies, Magic Duel, Sleepless In Ponyville and Wonderbolt Academy - all top tier episodes. It only had three bad episodes imo - which were Keep Calm And Flutter On, Spike At Your Service and Magical Mystery Cure, the latter only due to the decision by Hasbro to force Twilight to become an alicorn, for toy selling purposes, and is by far an underrated season. And the show has gone downhill since then, otherwise viewership wouldn't have dropped to the level its at now and this wouldn't be the final season.

Agree. It has just half of the episodes, but I think it could be considered equal classics that has the charm of early MLP like season 1 and 2. If it had twice the episode with the same quality and didn't had the controversial ending, it would have been considered a great season.

4 minutes ago, Nsxile said:

Season 3 was the not worst though. It might have been short but had episodes like The Crystal Empire Parts 1 and 2, Too Many Pinkie Pies, Magic Duel, Sleepless In Ponyville and Wonderbolt Academy - all top tier episodes. It only had three bad episodes imo - which were Keep Calm And Flutter On, Spike At Your Service and Magical Mystery Cure, the latter only due to the decision by Hasbro to force Twilight to become an alicorn, for toy selling purposes, and is by far an underrated season. And the show has gone downhill since then, otherwise viewership wouldn't have dropped to the level its at now and this wouldn't be the final season.

Agree. It has just half of the episodes, but I think it could be considered equal classics that has the charm of early MLP like season 1 and 2. If it had twice the episode with the same quality and didn't had the controversial ending, it would have been considered a great season.

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

It is very hard for any kind of successful series of any kind of art form to maintain the quality it once had. Look at any franchises, and you will find very little made it to the end. Either it got ugly, mediocre, cut short or got cancelled. But is it OK to be that way because most of them are? No.

[Rushing cash 824]

15 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the Student 6 as characters. The problem was the school itself. Equestria used to be this huge place with an adventure around every corner. The school turned that into a microcosm. It was still a good season, but potential became limited. I'm really starting to miss Ponyville.

Well, I still feel they weren't introduced as well as they could, they are pretty significant characters for the story, yet I am not invested in them enough. I wish they focused more on characters like zecora instead, which creates a problem for people who don't like them too much. I don't hat them but I just prefer episodes not focused on them. 

Some new writers are actually good, like the one who wrote sounds of silence, some bad episodes were written by older writers like the yakity sax by the fox brothers.    

[TheAnimationFanatic 3,543]

59 minutes ago, CloudMistDragon said:

Objectively the worst? Season 3 (which I like) with only thirteen episodes and most of them having mixed responses says hi. One story editor does not make a bad season. It's like how people credit Faust for everything in regards to creating the show when there are plenty of other people on the show staff who contributed ideas as well. I know you don't like Josh Haber, but don't present it as fact that he alone is responsible for the show "going downhill".  

And even with Season 3 being the weakest, it wasn't the writers' fault. They had their 26 episodes cut down to only 13 due to the crew working on Equestria Girls.

[Plonkett 341]

1 hour ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

It is very hard for any kind of successful series of any kind of art form to maintain the quality it once had. Look at any franchises, and you will find very little made it to the end. Either it got ugly, mediocre, cut short or got cancelled. But is it OK to be that way because most of them are? No.

It didn't have to be this way though, the next few seasons after 5 still could've had the veteran writers. Megan McCarthy, M.A. Larson, Amy Keating Rogers, Natasha Levinger. Instead they get replaced by inferior writers, which is what got the show to where it is.

[Sepul-Coloratura 756]

5 minutes ago, vgmaster9 said:

It didn't have to be this way though, the next few seasons after 5 still could've had the veteran writers. Megan McCarthy, M.A. Larson, Amy Keating Rogers, Natasha Levinger. Instead they get replaced by inferior writers, which is what got the show to where it is.

Maybe not just them getting out, but why they decided to get out in a first place might be more important, I think.

[Mirage 24,135]

All I can say is that Pinkie is hardly funny anymore - and that's a big deal!!!

I have to go back to S1-S4 to get a really good breathless Pinkie laugh on.

[Plonkett 341]

23 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

Maybe not just them getting out, but why they decided to get out in a first place might be more important, I think.

Well I do know why McCarthy and Rogers got out. McCarthy moved to a higher position in Hasbro and Rogers went to work for Disney. Still, that could've happened just a few years later. It was just so sudden for it to happen right when the show was doing so well.

Edited April 19, 2019 by vgmaster9