spoiler The thing about Cozy Glow

[SBaby 660]

6 hours ago, KH7672 said:

Ah ah ah, see that's where the execution is all little off. How do you know she is being forgotten about. There is nothing said to the fact that they're locking her up forever to be forgotten. From what we saw of Tartarus it is not Hell where you are tortured and uncared for, it is literally just a maximum security prison, where most of the inmates are just bored rather than suffering. Who says they aren't just keeping her somewhere where she can't escape easier, and a simple place it's easy to visit to try and work with her? We don't know! This is the exact same poor execution the Season 5 finale had where everyone immediately jumped to the conclusion that Starlight was just part of the group permanently and nothing was going to be tackled about past consequences or decisions, she's just perfect. Well the Season 6 premiere killed that mindset (for the most part). I say wait until the Season 9 premiere to know if Cozy really is being treated as a lost cause to be forgotten or really just as the dangerous criminal she is that needs a secured place to work with her easier.

It's not easy to visit first of all.  There aren't many ways into the place.  If you watched the finale, you should know this.  Second, let's pretend for a second that it IS a maximum security prison and not Hell (even though Tartarus IS Hell).  It isn't the kind of place you send a kid to.  You send a kid to a Juvenile Detention Center with other kids, not a place where cold blooded monsters are sent.  MAYBE if it was like a Scared Straight program where other adult characters were with her, that would be one thing, but none of that happened.

Oh and here it comes.  The cries of the fans.  'Waaaaaaah it's a separate universe from Earth with different lawwwwwwwrs.'  Yeah, but it was created by writers and editors that have control over what happens in said world and they could have come up with some other way for her to repay society.

Not to mention when you think about it, other characters have done far worse than her and probably knew better.  She stole magic and a MacGuffin, so the most you could really lump on her is a Theft charge.  Other characters have twisted reality, taken away free will, messed up the spacetime continuum to the point where we don't even know if this is still the same universe or not, tried to kill everyone in Equestria, and literally mind controlled ponies, not to mention luring a monster into one of the towns in Equestria and nearly destroying it in the process (which the Princesses didn't so much as bat an eye at).  Face it, what she did is paltry in comparison.

Also I don't think she's as dangerous as people make her out to be.  She's a kid who got access to a MacGuffin that was incompetently guarded.  The adults need to take some of the responsibility for that one and properly seal those things away, otherwise this is just gonna happen again. 

And as I said, sending a child to a place like that is just not something a good person would do.

Honestly if I were writing Season 9, I'd make this a major theme of the season and I would make this decision really controversial among the populace.  That would be an interesting plotline, the people of Equestria debating the ethics of sending a child to Tartarus.

Edited October 10, 2018 by SBaby

[KH7672 1,604]

12 minutes ago, SBaby said:

It's not easy to visit first of all.  There aren't many ways into the place.  Second, let's pretend for a second that it IS a maximum security prison and not Hell (which is what Tartarus is).  It isn't the kind of place you send a kid to.  You send a kid to a Juvenile Detention Center with other kids, not a place where cold blooded monsters are sent.

Not to mention when you think about it, other characters have done far worse than her and probably knew better.  She stole magic and a MacGuffin, so the most you could really lump on her is a Theft charge.  Other characters have twisted reality, taken away free will, messed up the spacetime continuum to the point where we don't even know if this is still the same universe or not, and tried to kill everyone in Equestria.  Face it, what she did is paltry in comparison.

Also I don't think she's as dangerous as people make her out to be.  She's a kid who got access to an artifact that was incompetently guarded.  The adults need to take some of the responsibility for that one and properly seal those things away.

And as I said, sending a child to a place like that is just not something a good person would do.

Tartarus is not Hell in THIS show.  I know what Tartarus is in mythology and such but the show took liberties and to some people's dismay dumbed it down.  I'm just taking what is presented and what was presented was a maximum security prison for dangerous creatures.  And speaking of those dangerous creatures, how many of them know better (the cockatrice, the bugbear, the chimera-that one at least had a little sapience) so not knowing better is not an excuse in this show.  It's all about intention.  Starlight did not have evil intentions, just messed up ones that when communicated were understood by Twilight (not so much by the audience but that is a flaw on the execution I will admit).

And no I think you're underselling how dangerous she is.  She did not just steal artifacts. Stygian just stole artifacts, and his intentions were good.  Cozy Glow stole artifacts with the sole purpose of draining magic from the world, because tell me what has every single villain in this franchise been defeated by; Elemental Magic or Friendship.  So her sole intent was to rid one of those things to have stopped her, and plus SHE brought the Mane 6 to Tartarus.  SHE is the one who suggests it's Tirek who is stealing magic.  She was purposely getting rid and trapping the element bearers from saving the day and stopping her.  She also had to get rid of Starlight, the other character to save the day.  All of these actions had evil intentions! These weren't innocent, "Hey, what's these artifacts do? Oh no, they steal magic and trap ponies what am I going to do, I guess it's up to me to take control" Oh yeah she wanted to take control but not for the good and safety of Equestria (that was Starlight's intentions however misguided they were) but to rule it, to drain it entirely so that SHE had all the power.  For crying out loud she called herself an Empress of Friendship, she was so power hungry she created a new title for herself.

So no I completely disagree with you, she is a villain and should be treated as such.

[SBaby 660]

12 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

Tartarus is not Hell in THIS show.  I know what Tartarus is in mythology and such but the show took liberties and to some people's dismay dumbed it down.  I'm just taking what is presented and what was presented was a maximum security prison for dangerous creatures.  And speaking of those dangerous creatures, how many of them know better (the cockatrice, the bugbear, the chimera-that one at least had a little sapience) so not knowing better is not an excuse in this show.  It's all about intention.  Starlight did not have evil intentions, just messed up ones that when communicated were understood by Twilight (not so much by the audience but that is a flaw on the execution I will admit).

And no I think you're underselling how dangerous she is.  She did not just steal artifacts. Stygian just stole artifacts, and his intentions were good.  Cozy Glow stole artifacts with the sole purpose of draining magic from the world, because tell me what has every single villain in this franchise been defeated by; Elemental Magic or Friendship.  So her sole intent was to rid one of those things to have stopped her, and plus SHE brought the Mane 6 to Tartarus.  SHE is the one who suggests it's Tirek who is stealing magic.  She was purposely getting rid and trapping the element bearers from saving the day and stopping her.  She also had to get rid of Starlight, the other character to save the day.  All of these actions had evil intentions! These weren't innocent, "Hey, what's these artifacts do? Oh no, they steal magic and trap ponies what am I going to do, I guess it's up to me to take control" Oh yeah she wanted to take control but not for the good and safety of Equestria (that was Starlight's intentions however misguided they were) but to rule it, to drain it entirely so that SHE had all the power.  For crying out loud she called herself an Empress of Friendship, she was so power hungry she created a new title for herself.

So no I completely disagree with you, she is a villain and should be treated as such.

First off, Tartarus.  If the implication wasn't that it was Hell, there are hundreds of other names they could have called it.  But they specifically called it Tartarus and had Cerberus guard it.  There is no other way to take that without grasping at straws.  They knew what they were calling it.  But regardless of what you think it is, it isn't the kind of place that a good person would lock a kid up in.

Also, she's not evil.  She's a kid who never had any guidance and got into a place that was incompetently guarded.  If they don't start securing their stuff better, this is just going to happen again, possibly with someone worse.

Like I said though, this would be a pretty good plot for Season 9.  Have the decision to lock her up be really controversial among the ponies of Equestria, questioning the competence of Equestria's leaders.  That would be an interesting plotline that could be an arc for the whole season.  And it would be a pretty mature subject for the show, asking the question of 'Where does one draw the line?'.  I mean seriously, putting a kid in prison with sadistic inmates, some ponies would probably think that's kind of a sick thing to do.  And maybe, just maybe the Princess' decisions aren't always right.

Edited October 10, 2018 by SBaby

[Dark Qiviut 22,177]

20 minutes ago, SBaby said:

Also, she's not evil.

Cozy Glow is evil. She not only knew what she was doing by draining Equestria of its magic, but knowingly worked with Equestria's most dangerous enemy in order to gain instructions. And when she was confronted, she showed no remorse or empathy and was going to reenact the same plan had she escaped the school.

[SBaby 660]

10 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Cozy Glow is evil. She not only knew what she was doing by draining Equestria of its magic, but knowingly worked with Equestria's most dangerous enemy in order to gain instructions. And when she was confronted, she showed no remorse or empathy and was going to reenact the same plan had she escaped the school.

She's not evil.  She's a kid who never had anyone to set an example.  What do you expect her to be when nobody's there to guide her and the only impression she got was Twilight reaming out the only ones that even attempted to be friends with her?

Edited October 10, 2018 by SBaby

[Dark Qiviut 22,177]

1 hour ago, SBaby said:

Other characters have twisted reality, taken away free will, messed up the spacetime continuum to the point where we don't even know if this is still the same universe or not, tried to kill everyone in Equestria, and literally mind controlled ponies, not to mention luring a monster into one of the towns in Equestria and nearly destroying it in the process (which the Princesses didn't so much as bat an eye at).  Face it, what she did is paltry in comparison.

You leave out what separates her from reformed villains: the showing of remorse.

Discord: Realized his actions will break his friendship with Fluttershy. Then when he betrayed them, Tirek double-crossed him, making him realize what he had done.

Starlight: Cried for help and had Twilight at her mercy. When Twilight gave her the chance to right her wrongs, she took it.

Luna: No longer angry or jealous of her sister, reunited with her.

Stygian: The Pillars, Sunburst, and RM7 pull him out from the Pony of Shadows, detaching his bitterness towards them and healing his soul.

Changelings: Overthrew Chrysalis so they can feel love without her starving them. With Thorax as their king, the changelings become Equestrian allies.

Cozy: Doubled down on her evil plan and showed no remorse at any point.

And what Cozy did wasn't paltry at all.

1. She committed treason by working with Tirek. The last time he reigned free, he drained magic and threatened to overthrow Equestria in favor of a dictatorship.
2. She tricked the M8 into thinking Tirek is draining the magic and successfully trapped them in Tartarus.
3. She kidnapped Starlight and trapped her in a condensed sphere of magic.
4. She used the magic of friendship to manipulate others into joining her side. Despite being taught the whole curriculum, she never absorbed the lessons, instead using them as a mask to lure others. She knowingly took advantage of their trust for her.
5. By draining Equestria of its magic, unicorns, pegasi, earth ponies, and alicorns can't use their magic anymore. Meaning no ability to rotate the planet, control the weather, open or close Tartarus's door, distribute or grow crops, hornwrite, levitate, grab, etc.

Cozy Glow understood the implications. With magic destroyed, Equestrian royalty is powerless to defend and rule. By gaining friends, they can come to her during the crisis, and Cozy can use their trust for her to generate popularity and overthrow them. Her cutie mark's a rook because she's conniving. Her actions were catastrophic, and she would've repeated them if she wasn't arrested and imprisoned.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[gingerninja666 487]

7 minutes ago, SBaby said:

She's not evil.  She's a kid who never had anyone to set an example.  What do you expect her to be when nobody's there to guide her and the only impression she got was Twilight reaming out the only ones that even attempted to be friends with her?

In that same episode she also should've learned that telling the truth and owning up to your mistakes will net you praise and good things for your friends. When she got the CMC in trouble, confessing to what she'd done got the CMC diplomas from Twilight and a position as tutors. And yet she didn't learn from this AT ALL. She went on lying and didn't care. She saw first hand that honesty can be a good thing and it didn't register at all.

 

That's the thing about COzy defenders. It requires ignoring things about her or playing them down to make your point look stronger. Like really, THEFT is the only thing you think they can get her on? Manipulating minors, throwing Equestria into chaos via stealing magic, (which we learned does stuff like keeping food fresh, and we saw that abruptly turning off magic can be highly dangerous with the scene of everyone falling out of Cloudsdale). Tricking the mane 6 into locking themselves inside Tartarus with NO means of getting them back out (since magic is needed to open the  door).

[SBaby 660]

13 minutes ago, Dark Qiviut said:

You leave out what separates her from reformed villains: the showing of remorse.

Discord: Realized his actions will break his friendship with Fluttershy. Then when he betrayed them, Tirek double-crossed him, making him realize what he had done.

Starlight: Cried for help and had Twilight at her mercy. When Twilight gave her the chance to right her wrongs, she took it.

Luna: No longer angry or jealous of her sister, reunited with her.

Stygian: The Pillars, Sunburst, and RM7 pull him out from the Pony of Shadows, detaching his bitterness towards them and healing his soul.

Changelings: Overthrew Chrysalis so they can feel love without her starving them. With Thorax as their king, the changelings become Equestrian allies.

And what Cozy did wasn't paltry at all.

1. She committed treason by working with Tirek. The last time he reigned free, he drained magic and threatened to overthrow Equestria in favor of a dictatorship.
2. She tricked the M8 into thinking Tirek is draining the magic and successfully trapped them in Tartarus.
3. She kidnapped Starlight and trapped her in a condensed sphere of magic.
4. She used the magic of friendship to manipulate others into joining her side. Despite being taught the whole curriculum, she never absorbed the lessons, instead using them as a mask to lure others. She knowingly took advantage of their trust for her.
5. By draining Equestria of its magic, unicorns, pegasi, earth ponies, and alicorns can't use their magic anymore. Meaning no ability to rotate the planet, control the weather, open or close Tartarus's door, distribute or grow crops, hornwrite, levitate, grab, etc.

Cozy Glow understood the implications. With magic destroyed, Equestrian royalty is powerless to defend and rule. By gaining friends, they can come to her during the crisis, and Cozy can use their trust for her to generate popularity and overthrow them. Her cutie mark's a rook because she's conniving. Her actions were catastrophic, and she would've repeated them if she wasn't arrested and imprisoned.

I'm not going to talk about what she did and didn't do, because it's immaterial to my point.  The points you make are valid.  They just have nothing to do with my point.

The fact of the matter is she's a kid that never had any guidance, and putting a child in that kind of environment without adult supervision as a punishment is the worst thing you can do, and it isn't going to rehabilitate her at all.  It's just going to make her worse.  There are other ways they could have had her repay society.

And maybe Equestrian royalty should be powerless if they honestly think putting a child in that kind of a prison is a good thing.  They barely do anything about the problems that arise in their country anyway.

This is why it should be the theme of Season 9.  There are so many interesting points everyone could make and the thing is most of them would be perfectly valid.  This could be the Pokémon Black and White of the series if they played it right.

Edited October 10, 2018 by SBaby

[KH7672 1,604]

2 minutes ago, SBaby said:

The fact of the matter is she's a kid that never had any guidance, 

NEVER HAD GUIDANCE!?!

She went to a guidance counselor of her own volition once (twice if you count her in line in "Road to Friendship") She had the Mane 6 as teachers with enough smarts to pass tests (when she wasn't manipulating others for her own gain of trust). There is no place in Equestria that she could have been guided better. The whole point of the Student 6 is that the school does have the ability to give the proper guidance, you just have to consciously want it. Which she didn't! She blatantly ignored everything that was taught to her only retaining it to give her the trust in her teachers eyes. That's manipulation, that's an evil mindset, that no sense of "guidance" is going to change because it's no benefit to her.

[SBaby 660]

11 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

NEVER HAD GUIDANCE!?!

She went to a guidance counselor of her own volition once (twice if you count her in line in "Road to Friendship") She had the Mane 6 as teachers with enough smarts to pass tests (when she wasn't manipulating others for her own gain of trust). There is no place in Equestria that she could have been guided better. The whole point of the Student 6 is that the school does have the ability to give the proper guidance, you just have to consciously want it. Which she didn't! She blatantly ignored everything that was taught to her only retaining it to give her the trust in her teachers eyes. That's manipulation, that's an evil mindset, that no sense of "guidance" is going to change because it's no benefit to her.

And locking a child in prison with no adult supervision and the worst of Equestria is better?  Yeah, no.  That's being insane.

Make no mistake.  I really liked the finale.  I'm just saying there's some subject matter that could be explored next season, and they could easily make an arc out of it.

Edited October 10, 2018 by SBaby

[Dark Qiviut 22,177]

45 minutes ago, SBaby said:

I'm not going to talk about what she did and didn't do, because it's immaterial.

It's not immaterial at all. You claimed her actions were really small in comparison of what other villain did. Below are your words.

2 hours ago, SBaby said:

She stole magic and a MacGuffin, so the most you could really lump on her is a Theft charge.

Without magic, neither Equestria nor the planet will survive. Her actions are beyond petty thievery, but putting everyone's lives in grave danger.

45 minutes ago, SBaby said:

The fact of the matter is she's a kid that never had any guidance

You're using headcanon for this. There's no proof that she's a misguided kid. Every vile thing she did in S8 was through a clear conscience.

Marks for Effort: Framed the CMCs to Twilight, only became upset because she didn't get the outcome she wanted.

Friendship U: Stole a confidential copy of Twilight's EEA-approved curriculum and handed it to the Flim Flam brothers.

What Lies Beneath: Mocked the Student Six for being "primitive" and "needed" to study friendship.

Also, "never had any guidance" is false. She willingly went to Starlight's office twice, was the best student in Twilight's school, and was so trustworthy and helpful to Twilight that she became her friendship assistant. The Student Six wanted to learn friendship so they can grow and improve as individuals. Cozy wanted to learn friendship so she can manipulate them, gain their trust while she works with the enemy, and generate a mob for future rule, not to self-improve.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Dark Qiviut

[gingerninja666 487]

Just now, Dark Qiviut said:

It's not immaterial at all. You claimed her actions were really small in comparison of what other villain did. Below are your words.

Without magic, neither Equestria nor the planet will survive. Her actions are beyond petty thievery, but putting everyone's lives in grave danger.

You're using headcanon for this. There's no proof that she's a misguided kid. Every vile thing she did in S8 was through a clear conscience.

Marks for Effort: Framed the CMCs to Twilight, only became upset because she didn't get the outcome she wanted.

Friendship U: Stole a confidential copy of Twilight's EEA-approved curriculum and handed it to the Flim Flam brothers.

What Lies Beneath: Mocked the Student Six for being "primitive" and "needed" to study friendship.

Also, "never had any guidance" is false. She willingly went to Starlight's office twice, was the best student in Twilight's school, and was so trustworthy and helpful to Twilight that she became her friendship assistant. The Student Six wanted to learn friendship so they can grow and improve as individuals. Cozy wanted to learn friendship so she can manipulate them, gain their trust while she works with the enemy, and generate a mob for future rule, not to self-improve.

To add to this, even if someone were to say that the Mane 6 were terrible teachers. I don't agree, but let's just say that they weren't good role models for the sake of argument. The CMC definitely WERE good based on what we saw in Marks for Effort. They taught her how the elements worked. They demonstrated first hand that it's better to own up to your mistakes than lie. They taught her how to be observant and notice the problems other people are facing, and be proactive in solving them. They showed her how to be compassionate and generous, and how to have a good time in spite of messing up. They taught her explicitly that the 6th element was magic, not control.

They did everything right. At least when it comes to helping Cozy Glow. And she didn't care.

[KH7672 1,604]

36 minutes ago, SBaby said:

Make no mistake.  I really liked the finale.  I'm just saying there's some subject matter that could be explored next season, and they could easily make an arc out of it.

Wait................... Isn't that what I said originally?

8 hours ago, KH7672 said:

Who says they aren't just keeping her somewhere where she can't escape easier, and a simple place it's easy to visit to try and work with her? We don't know!.....I say wait until the Season 9 premiere to know if Cozy really is being treated as a lost cause to be forgotten or really just as the dangerous criminal she is that needs a secured place to work with her easier.

I mean the ending clearly alludes to the fact we haven't seen the last of her. I completely agree that there should some mention of Twilight or the princesses visiting her to continue to reason with her. But now I'm just confused, I thought you were objecting against Cozy's characterization as a villain, saying she wasn't as evil. Well then I guessed we've reached a momentary impasse, that will only be an issue if the series chooses to ignore the idea.

[Will Guide 21,325]

@Dark Qiviut @gingerninja666 

I quite agree with your many points against Cozy Glow. I mean, it was kinda obvious from her first episode she's a bad girl and influence, but I was shocked to discover by the Finale just how far she was selfishly willing to go for her own ends.

The trailer promo even managed to fool me into thinking she might reform when I saw her concern look as Neighsay declares he's now in control of the school. But she only looked that concerned because Neighsay was unknowingly getting in the way of her plans.

What's ironic is that in Neighsay's views, he saw the non-pony students as dangerous creatures, genuienely believing that all ponies of Equestria need to learn to defend themselves from precieved dangerous threats. It made sense he had that misguided viewpoint, since at some point, all the other races have made a a bad first impression, either by already invaded the land (Changelings), threatened to invade (Yaks, Garble if he became Dragon Lord), are shown to be uncaring and selfish (Griffons/ Dragons' reputation), or refused to help the ponies in their time of need (Hippogriffs refusing to share their magic pearl and do nothing but hide from the Storm King).

Turns out that the biggest threat that nearly destroyed all of Equestria as we know it was not a non-pony that Nieghsay feared and mistrusted, but one of their pony kind. It took being double-crossed and being saved by the "dangerous" non-pony students to realize how wrong his mindset and he changed for the better.

Cozy Glow did not and not once cared for anyone but herself. Even Diamond Tiara was unselfish enough to realize that her actions costed her her best friend Silver Spoon. If it was Cozy Glow back in DT's situation back then, Cozy would very likely feel no regret whatsoever once her best friend dumped her. That's the kind of remorseless villain she is.

[DonMaguz 1,023]

2 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Cozy Glow understood the implications. With magic destroyed, Equestrian royalty is powerless to defend and rule. By gaining friends, they can come to her during the crisis, and Cozy can use their trust for her to generate popularity and overthrow them.

And yet, she's a child... How???

I think we could all agree that the CMC have begun their teen years, but we've still seen how they sometimes behave as kids... that's perfectly fine because that's what teens do.

Then we have Cozy Glow, whose manipulation skills and immense ambition led her to make a plan to understand friendship and use it to her benefit without learning better in the process. It just doesn't make sense for her to be a child or even a young teen.

[SBaby 660]

35 minutes ago, DonMaguz said:

And yet, she's a child... How???

I think we could all agree that the CMC have begun their teen years, but we've still seen how they sometimes behave as kids... that's perfectly fine because that's what teens do.

Then we have Cozy Glow, whose manipulation skills and immense ambition led her to make a plan to understand friendship and use it to her benefit without learning better in the process. It just doesn't make sense for her to be a child or even a young teen.

That's the thing I'm worried about with Cozy Glow.  They have the potential to address the subject matter of a child in prison and how controversial that would be to the general public, and have a more mature story arc for Season 9.  But I do admit that I have a hunch that they're going to chicken out.  They have a setup that would work for it, but I don't know if they'll follow through or not.

[DonMaguz 1,023]

15 minutes ago, SBaby said:

That's the thing I'm worried about with Cozy Glow.  They have the potential to address the subject matter of a child in prison and how controversial that would be to the general public, and have a more mature story arc for Season 9.  But I do admit that I have a hunch that they're going to chicken out.  They have a setup that would work for it, but I don't know if they'll follow through or not.

Well she's caged there because she's evil and unrepentant (and because authorities are blind and absurdly dumb about what she can do side by side with Tirek). I don't have your enthusiasm for such a plot with all the things she did as evidence.

[Hierok 11,829]

On 10/7/2018 at 9:23 PM, FlareGun45 said:

For one: if she's an orphan too who has trouble fitting in, who better to relate to her?

Two: if there really is a seventh element like the Tree of Harmony plans suggest as well as Twilight's cutie mark, Spike is most certainly gonna be the one, and by extension, he could reform someone, and it might as well be her!

If he's a "main character" like the staff keeps suggesting, then his moment of glory is just about to come!

Intersting. Maybe Scoots could help too. Might make an interesting episode.

[heavens-champion 1,893]

On 10/10/2018 at 3:41 PM, Happy Yoshi said:

@Dark Qiviut @gingerninja666 

I quite agree with your many points against Cozy Glow. I mean, it was kinda obvious from her first episode she's a bad girl and influence, but I was shocked to discover by the Finale just how far she was selfishly willing to go for her own ends.

The trailer promo even managed to fool me into thinking she might reform when I saw her concern look as Neighsay declares he's now in control of the school. But she only looked that concerned because Neighsay was unknowingly getting in the way of her plans.

What's ironic is that in Neighsay's views, he saw the non-pony students as dangerous creatures, genuienely believing that all ponies of Equestria need to learn to defend themselves from precieved dangerous threats. It made sense he had that misguided viewpoint, since at some point, all the other races have made a a bad first impression, either by already invaded the land (Changelings), threatened to invade (Yaks, Garble if he became Dragon Lord), are shown to be uncaring and selfish (Griffons/ Dragons' reputation), or refused to help the ponies in their time of need (Hippogriffs refusing to share their magic pearl and do nothing but hide from the Storm King).

Turns out that the biggest threat that nearly destroyed all of Equestria as we know it was not a non-pony that Nieghsay feared and mistrusted, but one of their pony kind. It took being double-crossed and being saved by the "dangerous" non-pony students to realize how wrong his mindset and he changed for the better.

Honestly, you'd think Nightmare Moon, King Sombra, Starlight Glimmer, and Tempest Shadow would have been earlier clues for him that ponies aren't completely pure of heart, either.

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

I'm starting to even wonder if Cozy Glow is a child at this point , but yeah her actions and the fact she committed not only treason, but she also framed many, lied about failing a friendship test, stole magic from unicorns, pegasi, earth ponies and alicorns, imprisoned Starlight, and showed no remorse for what she had done, yeah she deserves to be in Tartarus, I do wonder though if after realizing it was Cozy's plan to be locked there with Tirek, will Celestia go "Oh crap!" lol

 

[cmarston1 5,952]

I never really cared that much, as I was just satisfied and thankful to see a villain in this show actually face real consequences for their actions for a change, that this never crossed my mind.

[heavens-champion 1,893]

2 hours ago, MLPFanatic34 said:

 I do wonder though if after realizing it was Cozy's plan to be locked there with Tirek, will Celestia go "Oh crap!" lol

 

Just Celestia?

1 hour ago, cmarston1 said:

I never really cared that much, as I was just satisfied and thankful to see a villain in this show actually face real consequences for their actions for a change, that this never crossed my mind.

If I had a dollar for everytime someone in the fanbase said something about not wanting to see villains get reformed, I'd be rich. Yes, I know you didn't say it outright, but you implied it.

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

22 minutes ago, heavens-champion said:

Just Celestia?

If I had a dollar for everytime someone in the fanbase said something about not wanting to see villains get reformed, I'd be rich. Yes, I know you didn't say it outright, but you implied it.

No I mean everyone would probably be saying "Oh Crap!"

[heavens-champion 1,893]

40 minutes ago, MLPFanatic34 said:

No I mean everyone would probably be saying "Oh Crap!"

In my defense, it did look like you were leaving out everyone else.

[heavens-champion 1,893]

So, by your logic, we should just lock ten-year-olds in jail.

P.S. were you angry when posting this topic?

Edited October 14, 2018 by heavens-champion