Where do Celestia and Luna come in?

[Strawberry Tart 161]

In Hearth's Warming Eve, the play didn't show when Celestia and Luna came in. And it seemed that without them, day and night came anyway. So where do they come in? Does it even matter if they're there or not, or is it just a ceremony-type thing? Are they needed at all? Because before Equestria, day and night obviously came, even though Celestia and Luna weren't around...

[None42069 520]

Unfortunately, I can only provide one explanation. Take it away, Spike!

 

[Gingerpotato 889]

Well I would have thought that they wanted to watch the three tribes of ponies unite as one before they stepped in to give their subjects the freedom to choose how they wanted to live instead of having it forced upon them straight away.

 

Then again, that doesn't explain how Discord came about if the land was so prosperous under their rule...

 

Maybe they watched the trio for a while and when disputes broke out and Discord was created, they stepped in to fight him and the group of ponies seeing that there were two beings fighting the monster immediately latched onto them as their leaders as one might do in dangerous time.

 

To be honest, I have no idea and that's just my personal opinion on what may have happened.

Edited July 8, 2012 by DiscordedPotato

[NavelColt 22,876]

Unfortunately, I can only provide one explanation. Take it away, Spike!

 

 

Would brohoof, but I've posted that myself in another thread regarding a similar topic </3

 

Glad more people than just me were thinking of this. I have no explanation other than that Hearthswarming Eve may have not been factual, but more of a story made up to teach people, especially kids, about the meaning of love over hatred. The actual story as it goes was Celestia and Luna stumbled upon the land when it was ruled by Discord, who they fought and defeated. But who knows. I think some aspects of the story would be true, even if not all of it was. Like the Wendigoes, for example, neighed at the end, so they're probably real.

[PonyEcho 1,610]

maybe they for got what to original flag looked like and thorw that on in the last minutes, what i rely want to know is when did Discord stepin and were did he come from

[None42069 520]

Would brohoof, but I've posted that myself in another thread regarding a similar topic </3

 

Well, what can I say? Strange mind think alike.

 

maybe they for got what to original flag looked like and thorw that on in the last minutes, what i rely want to know is when did Discord stepin and were did he come from

 

The first love poison incident that created H&H day included something about Chaos. I assume he started there.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Xidphel

[Half-Note 273]

The sun and moon could move because all the unicorns got together to move it. Celestia is simply the only one who can move it on her own.

[Magicon 468]

I always thought they just got the flag wrong with it. My basic thoughts on Equestrian History can be told in a small timeline:

 

1. The Three tribes unite under a different flag (which was subsequently lost in time) and prosper.

2. Chaos and Order enter the three tribes and fight for control over the ponies bringing suffering

3. Celestia and Luna arrive (either from a distant land or within Equestria itself) and side with Order and imprison Chaos

4. Order becomes too controlling for Equestria and Celestia and Luna destroy or imprison it as well.

5. Celestia and Luna rule together for some time before Luna's transformation and subsequent banishment.

 

I know it's not perfect but it's the best I can come up with that logically makes sense in my mind.

[Guest]

The three tribes united, then Discord came into the picture, and Luna and Celestia were either normal ponies or Alicorns while this happened (perhaps defeating him made them more powerful).

[murkyx 904]

There's a hint of where Discord came in in the Hearts and Hooves day episode. Where after the Prince and Princess (Not to mention, the princess in the picture is an alicorn) take the love poison, "Chaos reigns."

 

So I suspect that the timeline goes:

The three tribes unite and found Equestria, unicorns have the power to control the sun and moon

Somewhere along the line, alicorns come into the picture as royalty

Equestria is ruled by a "Prince" and "Princess" and somewhere along this line, the powers to control the sun and moon probably were bestowed upon them

The love poison allows Discord to take over

From a few to many years later, Celestia and Luna come from somewhere and take down Discord

They take up rule of Equestria from then on for at least a while

Luna rebels and becomes Nightmare Moon, is banished

1000 years later, Nightmare Moon returns, is defeated and changed back

Present day

 

Hopefully insight on the origins of the Alicorns, and where Celestia and Luna come from will be in season 3.

Edited July 8, 2012 by Brisineo

[Mindrop 412]

There's a hint of where Discord came in in the Hearts and Hooves day episode. Where after the Prince and Princess (Not to mention, the princess in the picture is an alicorn) take the love poison, "Chaos reigns."

 

So I suspect that the timeline goes:

The three tribes unite and found Equestria, unicorns have the power to control the sun and moon

Somewhere along the line, alicorns come into the picture as royalty

Equestria is ruled by a "Prince" and "Princess" and somewhere along this line, the powers to control the sun and moon probably were bestowed upon them

The love poison allows Discord to take over

From a few to many years later, Celestia and Luna come from somewhere and take down Discord

They take up rule of Equestria from then on for at least a while

Luna rebels and becomes Nightmare Moon, is banished

1000 years later, Nightmare Moon returns, is defeated and changed back

Present day

 

Hopefully insight on the origins of the Alicorns, and where Celestia and Luna come from will be in season 3.

 

Bris, your a master at putting things together. I forgot about the mention of the love potion.

[Uri 7]

I think Celestia and Luna might be already divine for their immense magic power, but not the other Alicorns. The two lived in Equestria, which at the past wasn't as big as today's, and led to drive out Discord at first. Maybe Alicorns are considered as Royal family by the tribes for their rareness and for their greater ability of magic. These are just my guesses.

[PonyPowaX1000 69]

Either a plothole or the show has more to reveal to us

[Scootalove 10,684]

I think Celestia and Luna come in after Equestria was founded, in the play we saw how Equestria was made so they probably come in later after Equestria was established. Or they were born during Discord's reign, as another theory of mine.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Scootalove

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

Like people have said, it's possible that the story told at Hearth's Warming Eve is not real, but a cautionary tale. Most likely, the author didn't think about it for more than ten seconds

 

My guess is that Luna and Celestia where born during the time Discord ruled Equestria, well after the ponies founded Equestria. I've seem people arguing that they've always existed, just hadn't presented themselves to the ponies until they really needed them and it was them that move the sun and the moon, letting the unicorns pretend they did it, so they would have something to bargain with the other tribes.

 

As much as I like the to see the second theory in the show, I think it's very unlikely. It's most probable that they were born during Discord's rule and ascended to alicorns. Why did they appear as old as they are now in the S4E01 flashback is beyond me.

 

Some people think that moving the sun and the moon would have been too taxing for even large groups of unicorns, and the two for some reason can do it on their own, and that is why they do it. Some people also say that this function is theirs ceremoniously, since they are the rulers of the land. Maybe it's a combination of both.

 

I wouldn't be too surprised if either the producers completely surprise us or don't even care enough to think two seconds about it never even touch this subject.

Edited January 2, 2014 by moonlightavenger

[Batbrony 15,994]

A number of fan works (and I think "Hearth's Warming Eve" may even mention this briefly) have suggested that before Celestia and Luna came along, the unicorns controlled the sun and moon; it was just a lot harder and took a lot more unicorns to do so before the alicorn sisters came on the scene.  Don't know if it's the canon explanation or not, but it certainly makes the most sense to me, so I generally accept that as my official head canon.

[Nature's Spell 526]

Great topic! I wrote a blog entry about this topic, so I won't repost my ideas, and you can read it if you wish. Musing on the Royal Pony Sisters The season 4 flashback did us no favors and it would have been a lot better of Luna and Celestia looked younger in that scene. This is one of many issues I hope the writers tackle, but I have a bad feeling they won't.

@brisineo I love your theory about discord, very smart.

Edited January 2, 2014 by Nature's Spell

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

@@Nature's Spell, actually, it tells us that either the producers didn't care enough to make them younger OR that they are immortals or age differently from Cadance. 

I'm gonna read your blog now...

[Nature's Spell 526]

@@Nature's Spell, actually, it tells us that either the producers didn't care enough to make them younger OR that they are immortals or age differently from Cadance.

I'm gonna read your blog now...

I'm honestly not sure I like any of those prospects. It's very clear the sisters are not gods, although they are powerful in relation to their cutie marks, and I'd rather them have earned their cutie marks and princess status saving Equestria. They were born "normal" ponies but had amazing hidden talents. I'd be OK if their parents were the Alicorns you mentioned I guess, but I also like the idea of them being ascended like Twilight and Cadence. Edited January 2, 2014 by Nature's Spell

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

@@Nature's Spell, You're right. I hadn't noticed that they already had their royal regalia during Discord's reign. Perhaps they were already crowned at the time and merely "lead the resistance" as would be expected of them?

 

We assumed that Discord was the ruler and then the two of them would have dethroned him, but it may be wrong if the flashback is to be trusted.

[Nature's Spell 526]

@@Nature's Spell, You're right. I hadn't noticed that they already had their royal regalia during Discord's reign. Perhaps they were already crowned at the time and merely "lead the resistance" as would be expected of them?

 

We assumed that Discord was the ruler and then the two of them would have dethroned him, but it may be wrong if the flashback is to be trusted.

Sadly without more material we can only guess. As Sherlock Holmes said, "how can we build on such a quicksand?" Again, the writers did us no favors.