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What if Earth Pony Magic is a Myth?


ALIS

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So Earth Ponies are said to be stronger on average then other ponies and despite this not coming up in the show in any obvious way let's pretend they are. It may be because they walk everywhere on solid earth, not fly everywhere and land on clouds, or they carry heavy things around not levitate them like unicorns, that muscle adds up over the years for sure. Bic Mac and Applejack may be strong but so are Snowflake and Rainbow Dash. Plenty of strong Pegasii and Unicorns who work out and can gain strength similar to Earth Ponies.

 

Now Earth Ponies are supposed to be attuned to nature but what if that is comfirmation bias. That Earth Ponies that farm are better farmers because they grow up in what kind of households? Farm households. Taught by experienced farm parents. For all we know Unicorn Magic may be better for farming but because it is hard and low paying they avoid it. Fluttershy also seems pretty connected to natures creatures as well, better than any Earth Pony.

 

Some talk about Pinkie Pie's powers or other Earth Ponies that do things well like Applejack's farming but what if none of that is tied to being an Earth Pony at all. They just happen to be Earth Ponies.

 

What if Earth Pony Magic is a myth made to make Earth Ponies feel better about lacking Wings and a Horn and gaining nothing in return? What if Earth Pony is just the short end of the stick?

 

That would be one hell of an episode.

Edited by ALIS
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The specifics would be complicated, but I'm pretty confident that Earth Ponies are fine. Ultimately though it will probably stay within the realm of speculation, it doesn't seem like something that would be explained, especially since we have yet to have an explanation on things like alicorns and such.

 

And I dunno, an episode about something like that could really put a blemish on the positive portrayal of Equestria in the cartoon. Most of the good morals learned in the show are learned from small scale events, slice of life if you would, if you made it seem like there's some sort of discrimination blanketing all of Equestria, you couldn't rectify that with a nice good lesson at the end of the episode, it would be a permanent stain on the canon.

 

Just my two cents.

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What if Earth Pony Magic is a myth made to make Earth Ponies feel better about lacking Wings and a Horn and gaining nothing in return? Perhaps even made purposely to keep them doing difficult physical labor instead of Unicorns who are often portrayed as the higher class. What if Earth Pony is just the short end of the stick?

OCCUPY EQUESTRIA! THE PRINCESS HAS NO CLOTHES! THE CUPCAKE WAS A LIE!

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I don't think that earth pony magic is canon even as a myth /=|

as far as I know, it just something the fandom came up with to level the playing field between the different pony types

 

No, I think it's canon with the evidence I've seen.

I'm pretty certain of the notion that most everything in Equestria is linked with magic. Heck, cutie marks just by themselves are magical.

But let's make a list...

 

- Lauren Faust straight up said that Earth ponies are stronger and closer to nature. She's not in control anymore, but this is the canon they were going with when originally developing the show (and yes they are pegasi that are strong or good with animals, but no one said there couldn't be talent crossover).

 

- Then we've got Pinkie's powers. If you want to say, "Well that's just Pinkie", fine. But it is obvious that she IS an Earth Pony and she has seemingly magic powers.

 

- Next we've got that moment in Hearth's Warming Eve, were we see the flash back of Smart Cookie. She picks up a piece of dirt and, SPROING, little plant pops out. Kind of quickly don't you think?

 

- Then we've got the Apple Family's Zap Apple Harvest rituals. Pretty obvious something magical is going on there.

 

- Then we got Zecora. Now it COULD be because she's a Zebra and maybe they're all rather magically inclined, but I kind of doubt it. She definitely has a talent with magic, and doesn't need a horn or wings. Just talent and some helpful books. But that's more helpful for my "Magic is everywhere in Equestria" belief.

 

- Then back to Heath's Warming Eve. If unicorns and pegasi were just as capable of growing food themselves, why didn't they? Sure if it was a skill learned over generations they may not be as good at it at first. But if it's just a learned ability and not something that Earth ponies are just generally gifted at, then they should have been able to figure it out.

 

- Then in Bridle Gossip, Applejack tells Twilight about the plants that grow all by themselves in the Everfree Forest, while having this horrified look on her face. Well with that I can assume that ponies are the ones in charge of helping plants grow, just like controlling the weather. But I don't think I've seen a plant (or food) based cutie mark that wasn't attached to the flank of an Earth Pony. There might be a few I didn't catch, but like I said before, who says their can't be occasional talent cross over?

 

That's what I've got for now. I'm sure we'll find more later.

Edited by ShadOBabe
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- Then we've got Pinkie's powers. If you want to say, "Well that's just Pinkie", fine. But it is obvious that she IS an Earth Pony and she has seemingly magic powers.

 

- Next we've got that moment in Hearth's Warming Eve, were we see the flash back of Smart Cookie. She picks up a piece of dirt and, SPROING, little plant pops out. Kind of quickly don't you think?

 

- Then we've got the Apple Family's Zap Apple Harvest rituals. Pretty obvious something magical is going on there.

 

That all relies on Earth Ponies being the "sole reason" that stuff happens. Forgetting the unique Pinkie if a Unicorn dropped those seeds or spent years around Zap Apple trees can you same wouldn't happen with any certainty.

 

 

- Then back to Heath's Warming Eve. If unicorns and pegasi were just as capable of growing food themselves, why didn't they? Sure if it was a skill learned over generations they may not be as good at it at first. But if it's just a learned ability and not something that Earth ponies are just generally gifted at, then they should have been able to figure it out.

 

Pegasus can shut down the weather, Unicorns can shut off the sun. Why work hard when you can threaten. You saw the awesome base camp and castle they had, don't get those plowing fields.

 

 

- Then in Bridle Gossip, Applejack tells Twilight about the plants that grow all by themselves in the Everfree Forest, while having this horrified look on her face. Well with that I can assume that ponies are the ones in charge of helping plants grow, just like controlling the weather. But I don't think I've seen a plant (or food) based cutie mark that wasn't attached to the flank of an Earth Pony. There might be a few I didn't catch, but like I said before, who says their can't be occasional talent cross over?

 

That doesn't show at all that they are naturally "better at it" because of magic, just that they do it.

 

---

 

No evidence of Earth Ponies having a unique Magic from Pegasus or Unicorns so far in the show.

Edited by ALIS
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Lauren Faust straight up said that Earth ponies are stronger and closer to nature. She's not in control anymore, but this is the canon they were going with when originally developing the show

hmm...wasn't aware she said that

 

 

 

Then we've got Pinkie's powers. If you want to say, "Well that's just Pinkie", fine. But it is obvious that she IS an Earth Pony and she has seemingly magic powers.
 

well I never said that =P I do get the feeling there's more to pinkie than the show lets on. chances are that we'll for sure when twilight or somepony else decides to study her abilities from a different angle than twilight's stubborn bias from "feeling pinkie keen"

 

 

 

Then we've got the Apple Family's Zap Apple Harvest rituals. Pretty obvious something magical is going on there.

I think that's the magic that comes with the zap apples. it could be that the apple family is just familiar with the patterns of the zap apples like the episode points out

 

 

 

Then we got Zecora. Now it COULD be because she's a Zebra and maybe they're all rather magically inclined, but I kind of doubt it. She definitely has a talent with magic, and doesn't need a horn or wings. Just talent and some helpful books. But that's more helpful for my "Magic is everywhere in Equestria" belief.

I think that magic is similar to the zap apples, something inherent to the plant itself not from the pony. it could be just plant chemistry. or plant magic. or the plant's magic chemistry. even in such a case it would require an extensive knowledge of the plants on hand

 

 

 

 

Next we've got that moment in Hearth's Warming Eve, were we see the flash back of Smart Cookie. She picks up a piece of dirt and, SPROING, little plant pops out. Kind of quickly don't you think?

 

Then back to Heath's Warming Eve. If unicorns and pegasi were just as capable of growing food themselves, why didn't they? Sure if it was a skill learned over generations they may not be as good at it at first, but if it's just a learned ability and not something that Earth ponies are just generally gifted at, then they should have been able to figure it out.

 

Then in Bridle Gossip, Applejack tells Twilight about the plants that grow all by themselves in the Everfree Forest, while having this horrified look on her face. Well with that I can assume that ponies are the ones in charge of helping plants grow, just like controlling the weather. But I don't think I've seen a plant (or food) based cutie mark that wasn't attached to the flank of an Earth Pony. There might be a few I didn't catch, but like I said before, would says their can't be occasional talent cross over?

to be honest, I don't have a counterpoint to these 

 

I still feel that earth pony magic isn't a thing within the context of the show, despite how interesting it would be if it was. should they ever actually address the topic within the show, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

if earth pony magic should be in the show, I don't think that it would an active ability like in unicorns. chances are it will be a passive ability like pegasi being able to interact with clouds

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No evidence of Earth Pony related Magic so far.

 

Sounds more like you're just a trolling instigator rather than someone actually interested in this.

I've met SOOOOO many people like that, that it wouldn't shock me in the slightest. Those are just the bells you're sounding in my head.

 

But you ignored the comment about what Lauren Faust said.

I think the Unicorns and the Pegasi were kind of bluffing when I think about it. Shutting off the weather and the sun would punish them all too.

You CAN'T ignore Pinkie. She's still an Earth Pony with powers.

 

That doesn't show at all that they are naturally "better at it" because of magic, just that they do it.

 

And why did the magical force that is the granter of cutie marks give those talents to them?

It's not something that they are forced to do. You still see Earth Ponies that DON'T have plant/food cutie marks, but so many of them still do. If Earth Ponies were being forced to stay "low class", then high class, Earth Pony families like the Orange family and their friends in Manehattan wouldn't exist.

 

if earth pony magic should be in the show, I don't think that it would an active ability like in unicorns. chances are it will be a passive ability like pegasi being able to interact with clouds

 

EXACTLY. That's exactly what I think it is.

It is magic, and I do think they have these special connections and passive powers.

Well... except maybe Pinkie. She can summon her powers at will, with the exception of Pinkie Sense.

 

As for the "patterns", I'm not sure... I know that yes, the Zap Apples are magical on their own, but hopping over watering cans in bunny suits isn't something that that species of apple can get in the Everfree Forest, but it seems to help. And that's something that was figured out in just Granny's lifetime.

Edited by ShadOBabe
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But you ignored the comment about what Lauren Faust said.

I think the Unicorns and the Pegasi were kind of bluffing when I think about it. Shutting off the weather and the sun would punish them all too.

You CAN'T ignore Pinkie. She's still an Earth Pony with powers.

 

No I didn't ignore what Faust said, I said no evidence so far in the show. Faust also said there would be 2 Alicorns, her musings are interesting but not canon.

 

As for ignoring Pinkie, I didn't ignore her powers at all. I said I see no proof that they are related solely to being an Earth Pony. This thread is about Magic because you are an Earth Pony not an Earth Pony with Magic.

 

And why did the magical force that is the granter of cutie marks give those talents to them?

It's not something that they are forced to do. You still see Earth Ponies that DON'T have plant/food cutie marks, but so many of them still do.

 

You say cutie marks are granted and this connects to being an earth pony. This hypothisis assumes your cutie mark is completely fixed and doesn't take into account nurture where the life expirences of the individual come into play in choosing the mark. A pony raised in Vanhoover in a shoe shop might have a very different cutie mark then if that pony was raised on a farm.

 

The fact that they historically come from farm families may be the catalyst, not their race. A unicorn raised working on a farm may also be more likely to get a farmer cutie mark. Since Earth Ponies had been the providers to the other two tribes it makes sense that unicorn and pegasii are just not exposed to that life and therefore don't get a mark for it.

 

Even then if Earth Ponies do naturally find talent in the profession of nature that may be a difference but it does not show they have a magical ability to be closer to nature or better using nature than a commited member of another race.

 

As for the "patterns", I'm not sure... I know that yes, the Zap Apples are magical on their own, but hopping over watering cans in bunny suits isn't something that that species of apple can get in the Everfree Forest, but it seems to help. And that's something that was figured out in just Granny's lifetime.

 

She may have figured it out but there is no shown or implied connection between figuring that out and being an earth pony. It would need to only because she is an earth pony to be earth pony magic.

Edited by ALIS
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snip

This is an interesting discussion, and I have no opinion either way. But I do want to ensure that the people discussing have their facts right. The one point of your which I can objectively disprove is your point about cutie marks. Cutie marks are not a choice. They are inherent. You do not make you special talent. You discover it. It is within you inherently, and you have no say over it. Did you pay attention during any of the episodes covering cutie marks?

 

All you can do is choose how you use that talent. But you cannot change the talent itself.

 

I understand that your point is to show that where you are raised can determine your cutie mark, and I wouldn't disagree. But whatever your cutie mark is, it is granted, not chosen. And that is my point. And it does show that Earth ponies have a kind of magic, in their special talent. All ponies are magical to an extent.

 

Though as I said,  I don't know where to stand on whether or not Earth Ponies have a magic unique to Earth Ponies alone.

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I think Earth Pony magic is not a myth because, Earth Ponies have shown that they have a strong connection to the Earth with farming and being able to discover how nature is connected to their way of life. Each race have their own interpretation in magic, in their own form of magic like Unicorns and Alicorns with magic, Pegasi with their weather control, and Earth Ponies with the Earth connection in Equestria.

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Actually no... that wouldn't be a great episode... that would be a racist episode. Also magic is not omnipotent, weather control isn't either. We saw this on the first two episodes of the season. Earth ponies might also be... magic-resistant. You'd think that a race without magic in it would have developed said abilities. But anyways... i think we've seen guards of all races occupy the royal guard and Earth ponies being extremely intelligent and in high positions. Like miss what-was-her-name that was in the Equestrian games?

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The one point of your which I can objectively disprove is your point about cutie marks. Cutie marks are not a choice. They are inherent. You do not make you special talent. You discover it. It is within you inherently, and you have no say over it. Did you pay attention during any of the episodes covering cutie marks?

 

All you can do is choose how you use that talent. But you cannot change the talent itself.

 

As far as I have seen the show only talks about discovery of the cutie mark, not that it is fixed before birth. That the cutie mark will come to you when you find what makes you unique. Since who you are is shaped by experience it makes sense that discovery of that depends on how you live. I don't remember saying you choose it directly, just that in your life you find something special and it appears?

 

I would actually like to see the quote that says that it is inherent, I.E completely fixed. I can't find the quote you refer to.

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As far as I have seen the show only talks about discovery of the cutie mark, not that it is fixed before birth. That the cutie mark will come to you when you find what makes you unique. Since who you are is shaped by experience it makes sense that discovery of that depends on how you live. I don't remember saying you choose it directly, just that in your life you find something special and it appears?

 

I would actually like to see the quote that says that it is inherent, I.E completely fixed. I can't find the quote you refer to.

I referred to no quote. I refer only to Magical Mystery Cure and the Cutie Pox, both of which support the fact that your cutie mark defines you, and not the other way around.

 

And as you state, finding your cutie mark means finding what makes you unique. It is something you have already, not something you give yourself. You just need to figure out what makes you unique. But you have no say over what that trait is.

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I referred to no quote. I refer only to Magical Mystery Cure and the Cutie Pox, both of which support the fact that your cutie mark defines you, and not the other way around.

 

And as you state, finding your cutie mark means finding what makes you unique. It is something you have already, not something you give yourself. You just need to figure out what makes you unique. But you have no say over what that trait is.

 

You didn't answer the question. Where is it stated that it is inherent. You said it is something you already have. I would like to know where in the show it states that.

 

Because:

 

The one point of your which I can objectively disprove is your point about cutie marks. Cutie marks are not a choice. They are inherent. You do not make you special talent. You discover it. It is within you inherently, and you have no say over it. Did you pay attention during any of the episodes covering cutie marks?

 

No where I can find in the episodes you mentioned, Magical Mystery Cure and Cutie Pox is it stated that you are born with your cutie mark chosen for you and that your life and how you live has no baring on your talent. All those episodes show you is that different cutie marks affect your mind, not that the cutie mark you get is inherent and not dependant on life experience.

 

If you are going to objectively disprove something I would like to see that proof. That cutie marks are chosen for you before you are born and where you live and what you do have no effect on the special talent you discover. Please show me the part of the episode I did not pay attention to that shows inherency.

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It must necessarily be inherent, because how can you find something if it is not pre-defined? If your talent could be shaped by experiences, then you talent could change, and we know for a fact that you talent can't  be changed. Hence, it must necessarily  be something unchangeable, or the fact that a cutie mark is fixed would be wrong, which we know it isn't, based on Magical Mystery Cure, and the ever repeated point that you must find your talent, hence it must already exist as a part of you.

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It must necessarily be inherent, because how can you find something if it is not pre-defined?

You are confusing find with discover. I saw that in your previous posts. Discover is used for something you don't know what it is. When Columbus discovered America he didn't know what it was... A new continent.

 

Find on the other hand is used for something you already know what it is and you are looking for it.

 

When it comes to cutie marks you "discover" your talent you don't "find" it.

 

You are confusing the message of Magical Mystery Cure. The mane 6 when they acquired their cutie marks, and in general all of ponies, believed in them so strongly that they considered it their destiny. But when their cutie marks changed they didn't get the talent of one another like switching destinies but rather changed the mentality of what they are supposed to do.

 

They still did things their own way but also tried to do what they THOUGHT each other did. One proof of this is Applejack and Rarity's cutie mark. Rarity's cutie mark is three diamonds symbolizing her ability to find gemstones which Rarity HERSELF associated with fashion. Rather than that Applejack assumed her role as fashionista... Her job... Not her cutie mark. As it did happen with the rest. Because if it didn't Rarity would have the need for spped and the ability to do a sonic Rainboom.

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It must necessarily be inherent, because how can you find something if it is not pre-defined?

 

Finding and pre-defined are not inherently linked. If you couldn't find something that wasn't pre-defined then no one would ever find anything new.

 

If your talent could be shaped by experiences, then you talent could change, and we know for a fact that you talent can't  be changed.

 

Once you're talented in something that something doesn't go away cutie mark or no cutie mark so talent could not be changed anyway.

 

When you are a blank flank you have no special talent, when you figure out something you love more than anything it is grafted to you. It doesn't however mean you can't also be talented in and enjoy something else, just that your first big talent is magically connected to you. Pinkie is a baker, Twilight is Librarian.

 

Hence, it must necessarily  be something unchangeable, or the fact that a cutie mark is fixed would be wrong, which we know it isn't, based on Magical Mystery Cure, and the ever repeated point that you must find your talent, hence it must already exist as a part of you.

 

We know that once you get your cutie mark it is fixed and finding something does not mean it was already a part of you, just that you found it.

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- Lauren Faust straight up said that Earth ponies are stronger and closer to nature. She's not in control anymore, but this is the canon they were going with when originally developing the show (and yes they are pegasi that are strong or good with animals, but no one said there couldn't be talent crossover).

Lauren Faust can say anything she likes, regardless of whether she's in control or not, and it won't be canon unless it's actually on the show. Just my opinion though.

 

 

Actually no... that wouldn't be a great episode... that would be a racist episode.

In what way? It's already plainly obvious that the races aren't equal. It would just be kind of a bummer episode for Applejack and Pinkie Pie.

 

Also, racism already exists in the show, as shown by the almost all unicorn population of Canterlot, the majority earth pony population of Ponyville, and the 100% pegasus population of cloudsdale (that's more just 'cause other ponies can't walk on clouds though). In Winter Wrap Up, Applejack even shows disdain for Twilight's use of magic even when they're clearly behind schedule and need her help.

 

 

Earth ponies might also be... magic-resistant.

You also forgot how they're flight-resistant too. (get it?) 

 

 

It must necessarily be inherent, because how can you find something if it is not pre-defined? If your talent could be shaped by experiences, then you talent could change, and we know for a fact that you talent can't  be changed. Hence, it must necessarily  be something unchangeable, or the fact that a cutie mark is fixed would be wrong, which we know it isn't, based on Magical Mystery Cure, and the ever repeated point that you must find your talent, hence it must already exist as a part of you.

Even given that, I think it's silly to assume that a pony's early life experiences have no effect on what their special talent is. If it weren't for Rarity's original interest in fashion, she never would have discovered her particular talent for finding gems. If Applejack hadn't worked on a farm her whole life, she never would have left home, and never would have discovered how important farming is to her. If Twilight hadn't enrolled to take magic lessons in Canterlot, she would never have tried to use magic to open Spike's egg.

 

Cutie marks may not change after they appear, but that's why they appear towards the ending of a pony's childhood. They need to discover what they're good at after they've developed.

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@@ALIS,

 

I concede that perhaps cutie marks aren't inherent. However, that whole discussion is irrelevant to the initial reason I butted in. And that is this statement:

 

"You say cutie marks are granted and this connects to being an earth pony. This hypothisis assumes your cutie mark is completely fixed and doesn't take into account nurture where the life expirences of the individual come into play in choosing the mark. A pony raised in Vanhoover in a shoe shop might have a very different cutie mark then if that pony was raised on a farm."

 

And my response:

 

"The one point of your which I can objectively disprove is your point about cutie marks. Cutie marks are not a choice. They are inherent. You do not make you special talent. You discover it. It is within you inherently, and you have no say over it. Did you pay attention during any of the episodes covering cutie marks?

 

All you can do is choose how you use that talent. But you cannot change the talent itself.

 

I understand that your point is to show that where you are raised can determine your cutie mark, and I wouldn't disagree. But whatever your cutie mark is, it is granted, not chosen. And that is my point. And it does show that Earth ponies have a kind of magic, in their special talent. All ponies are magical to an extent."

 

Whether or not is inherent does not change the fact that cutie marks are not a choice, and they are not changeable, both of which are claims that you make.

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I don't like using magic as an easy way out in world building. So here's my 2 cents:

 

1: The princesses select and "sterilize" (they shut down all natural processes) an area. This explains why ponies have to do so many things that happen by themselves in nature, as well as that line about the Everfree in the first episode.

 

2: Earth ponies are normal ponies, Pegasi are highly derived and only superficially resemble equines (they might not be equines at all...), Unicorns I cannot explain sufficiently though.

 

3: Earth ponies do not have any sort of "magic". They are norma ponies, they are only stronger than they other ponies because selective pressure was on them to become stronger. They have no "magical connection with the Earth", they just developed agriculture before the other ponies, and entered a symbiotic relationship with them.

Actually no... that wouldn't be a great episode... that would be a racist episode.

Equestria is racist.

 

Look at Canterlot. Only Unicorns and the occasional normal pony. I don't remember any Unicorns or pegasi in Appleoosa either.

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I don't like using magic as an easy way out in world building. So here's my 2 cents:

 

1: The princesses select and "sterilize" (they shut down all natural processes) an area. This explains why ponies have to do so many things that happen by themselves in nature, as well as that line about the Everfree in the first episode.

 

2: Earth ponies are normal ponies, Pegasi are highly derived and only superficially resemble equines (they might not be equines at all...), Unicorns I cannot explain sufficiently though.

 

3: Earth ponies do not have any sort of "magic". They are norma ponies, they are only stronger than they other ponies because selective pressure was on them to become stronger. They have no "magical connection with the Earth", they just developed agriculture before the other ponies, and entered a symbiotic relationship with them.

Equestria is racist.

 

Look at Canterlot. Only Unicorns and the occasional normal pony. I don't remember any Unicorns or pegasi in Appleoosa either.

could you imagine if a zebra walked by those ponies from sweet and elite?

 

they'd have a cow.

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  • 2 years later...

Rainbow dash is the most athletic pegasus..twilight is one of the most powerful unicorn now alicorn..so they really shouldnt count as examples

 

Also why do people assume earth ponies would get jelous of the other races?

 

Would having wings make aj a better farmer?

Would magic make pinkie pie a better party planner?

Would octavia be better at the cello?

And so on

No..they are content on who they are and wouldnt have it any other way

 

 

Plus it has been said that either earth ponies are responsible for the food or they are just better at it

 

I think that people who say earth ponies are jealous of the other races are in fact putting themselves in the scenario. They are the ones who would be jelous of the others if they were earth ponies. The earth ponies in the show love being earth ponies

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Rainbow dash is the most athletic pegasus..twilight is one of the most powerful unicorn now alicorn..so they really shouldnt count as examples

 

Also why do people assume earth ponies would get jelous of the other races?

 

Would having wings make aj a better farmer?

Would magic make pinkie pie a better party planner?

Would octavia be better at the cello?

And so on

No..they are content on who they are and wouldnt have it any other way

 

 

Plus it has been said that either earth ponies are responsible for the food or they are just better at it

 

I think that people who say earth ponies are jealous of the other races are in fact putting themselves in the scenario. They are the ones who would be jelous of the others if they were earth ponies. The earth ponies in the show love being earth ponies

 

 

Well, ask yourself this.

If you lived in a society where you had two "races" of people, ones with limited telekinesis and weak psychic powers, but SOME of the psychics were god mode level strong and its implied that psychics could train to become stronger.... don't you think the psychics would seem "superior" to the Muggles and make some muggles feel inferior?

 

Even if most psychics could only do minor telekinesis like lifting cups and other objects, the sheer fact that they had it and others didn't would still imply a degree of inferiority.

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