Jan animations shut down by hasbro/C&D

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Essentially I am noticing a pattern. Hasbro uses its rights in copyright, they are wrong just because they are a big business. I am willing to bet if like Hasbro was a single artist who is contesting people doing the exact same thing, they would think it's somehow different.

 

Essentially the mentality is: big business is bad, therefore anything they do is wrong unless I think it's not.

Yes, why would we ever distrust a large corporation, why would we ever voice concern over a large conglomerate. It's not like historically large top heavy corporations have ever done any wrong.

[Metemponychosis 1,257]

They used Sweetie Belle, and their animation is exactly like Hasbro's, if not better. Otherwise I don't see why they would have a problem. It's the same thing with Fighting is Magic. They put a ton of effort into every frame to get the sprites spot on with the show.

 

You don't see Luna Game being taken down, or Daddy Discord, or Smile HD, or the .mov series, or most of the other videos, because either they're not fully animated, they don't use actual characters from the show, or they use a completely different animation style. Button was modelled after a pony that actually appeared on the show, the whole series used the same exact style as FiM, and they used Sweetie Belle, while not a major character, still a character that appears a lot throughout the series. For any major corporation, that would normally spell 3 strikes, and most would've sued the cutie marks off of whoever was responsible. But they let the creator of Buttons off with a warning, same for the Mane 6 team. Hasbro is probably the least lawsuit happy company out of them all, and the only time they will even think of sending a C&D is if it's in danger of threatening their IP. Don't blame Hasbro, blame the FUBAR copyright laws. That's like blaming a restaurant for bad wine when there's a wine monopoly and all restaurants have to buy wine from the same company.

 

Edit: If you want a good example of how to do fan work right, just look at Turnabout Storm. Since the videos were done Phoenix Wright style, it was more like a visual novel, so they got around the whole animation thing, and the VA's did a good job at keeping the voices just different enough so that they wouldn't get C&D'd for using voices from the show. Even with different voices, it was still a smash hit and Hasbro didn't see it as a threat since they used none of Hasbro's properties, except still shots, and maybe a tiny bit of animation to move the characters mouths to make it look like they're talking.

I just answered to Fhaolan. I think that it works for your comment too.

And thank you for not being condescending. I come here to make friends, and I see that I can be dense, but I think that I'm in the right in this one.

[Neon Fire 473]

NOOO! D:  That's SO stupid.  I can understand if he were making money off it, but if not, who cares?!  He's giving more support to the show!  I think that's ridiculous...

[Fhaolan 4,483]

The best thing for high-quality animators to do is to seek permission like what Double Rainboom did. I just hope Hasbro works at making seeking permission from them more simple than what it is, by making some public information available about a simple-to-follow guideline for who to contact about projects and things. More people would do it if Hasbro showed better iniative about making that contact info public. Many people go with, 'I'll just do it and hope it doesn't catch their attention and strike them as something that may cause misidentification with their own product', rather than seeking permission, due to the fact that they're not quite so obvious in doing that, yet.

 

 

Yeah, it's really pretty hard to get ahold of them over there in Hasbro. I managed once, when I was vetting an idea I had, but it was exceedingly aggravating and took a long time to get any kind of intelligible response.

 

Just yesterday this thread was started, its amazing how many responses it has gotten. I am noticing the many users are against what Hasbro is doing, but some do agree with their actions. Some are getting into debates about this and its getting heated. I wonder how long this thread will last before it gets locked by the mods?

It might, or they might move this to the debate pit if it gets any more heated in here.

[Batbrony 16,043]

I always did wonder if Hasbro would ever do anything seeing as Button Mash technically is one of their characters, along with some of the other characters who've shown up in Jan's work (i.e. Sweetie Belle and such).  Let's just hope the same fate doesn't befall Silly Filly Studios; to this date "Snowdrop" remains one of the greatest videos in the entire fandom.  Wouldn't be surprised if they suspended their "Fall of the Empire" project after this, considering it's going to star Princess Celestia, Princess Luna, and King Sombra, all three major characters of the show.

 

That said, despite the fact that this move on Hasbro's part certainly makes sense, that doesn't change the fact that it's a tragic turn of events all the same and it certainly doesn't mean I can't be sad about it.  The quality in Jan's vids was unparalleled, simply unparalleled, and he inspired many people in this fandom I'm sure, including me myself most definitely, to pursue their own creative endeavors and aim for the highest quality possible.  If anything, I hope that Hasbro would perhaps be kind enough to make up for this legal-equivalent of an atom bomb they just dropped on Jan by perhaps offering to let him join the DHX team in some official capacity, similar to how Mandopony is now working with the studio's music team.  I know that would take some finagling, seeing as Jan lives in Italy, but I bet they could make it work.  If they don't, I wish Jan the best in his future work, and I hope that he doesn't experience a similar shutdown comparable to this one at anytime in the future.

 

In short, this whole situation's rotten, just plain rotten.  I won't go so far as to wag my finger at Hasbro, but at the same time, it's just a rotten, rotten situation that saddens me terribly. 

[Guest]

 

 

I answered exactly what needs to be changed,

 

Where? You never said what the law should be just what you think it shouldn't be. Which essentially seems to be "big business bad. Me no like."

 

 

 

just because you can break up a post and multi-quote, does not mean you are correct.

 

I only do that to organize my reply so you know exactly which parts I am specifically addressing with each statement. Where did I say it made me more correct?

 

 

 

You are nothing more than another first year college kid, who reads what their professors tells them do, and follows suit.

 

Insulting me isn't going to get you anywhere. Secondly, I graduated college.

 

 

 

The law needs to be changed, as to allow for less user defined infractions of copywrite.

 

Why? You keep saying that, but you're not giving a good reason.

 

 

 

And you yourself are quite guilty of logic jumps, "you are just giving out the idea that you can rip off ips!", which was never stated in any sort in any of the posts I made, nor did I ever insinuate that.

 

Granted, but what are you insinuating then?

 

Let's be more specific:

 

Use this current case with Jan Animations. Answer me the following questions and if you can do that to satisfactory then I think everyone will agree that you are right in that we should change the law to how you see fit:

 

1. Is Jan Animations in the wrong here?

2. How is it fair they can use Hasbro's characters without permission?

3. Why should Hasbro not have the right to take it down?

 

 

Here are my answers:

 

1. Yes, absolutely. Hasbro has a legally binding trademark on those trademarks. Just because Jan Animations may disagree with the law does not give them grounds to break it. When you disagree with the law you don't go out and break it, simple as that. You have to take it to court and contest the law. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. If we allowed people to break the laws to make a statement as to why they were wrong, well... We'd have a lot of problems, let's leave it at that. The only time you should break the law to prove it's a crappy law is when people are being oppressed to an extreme of where if people even question the law they are killed or jailed.

 

2. It isn't. Hasbro registered their trademarks because they are integral to their business. They are their creations and ideas. They bought the rights and Jan Animations didn't. Hasbro owns the IP and thus they are permitted to do whatever they like with their creation. If they feel Jan's work is a threat to their business they are entitled to file a C&D, however the law states that the court has to decide to hold it up. Jan Animations decided not to go to court. Hasbro did not "enforce" anything, they sent Jan Animations a notice saying that if they continued to use their IP they would take them to court. Jan Animations would have the right to contest it then and fight it in court. They chose not to, mostly because they know they have no case.

 

3. They should have the right. If you create something that is part of your business, any change to its image or understanding you would want control over. I wouldn't give random people the rights to use my stuff because I don't have any control over how they use it. They COULD make something cool and nice with it, or they could make something that makes my IP look bad. You don't know what they are going to do, and there are tons of factors. Extremely catering content from fanwork may hurt the official work because it could make people expect more catering content. It's giving partial control of your work to someone else who does not work for you and you are playing a game of luck and faith when you do that.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Where? You never said what the law should be just what you think it shouldn't be. Which essentially seems to be "big business bad. Me no like."

 

 

 

I only do that to organize my reply so you know exactly which parts I am specifically addressing with each statement. Where did I say it made me more correct?

 

 

 

Insulting me isn't going to get you anywhere. Secondly, I graduated college.

 

 

 

Why? You keep saying that, but you're not giving a good reason.

 

 

 

Granted, but what are you insinuating then?

 

Let's be more specific:

 

Use this current case with Jan Animations. Answer me the following questions and if you can do that to satisfactory then I think everyone will agree that you are right in that we should change the law to how you see fit:

 

1. Is Jan Animations in the wrong here?

2. How is it fair they can use Hasbro's characters without permission?

3. Why should Hasbro not have the right to take it down?

 

 

Here are my answers:

 

1. Yes, absolutely. Hasbro has a legally binding trademark on those trademarks. Just because Jan Animations may disagree with the law does not give them grounds to break it. When you disagree with the law you don't go out and break it, simple as that. You have to take it to court and contest the law. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things. If we allowed people to break the laws to make a statement as to why they were wrong, well... We'd have a lot of problems, let's leave it at that. The only time you should break the law to prove it's a crappy law is when people are being oppressed to an extreme of where if people even question the law they are killed or jailed.

 

2. It isn't. Hasbro registered their trademarks because they are integral to their business. They are their creations and ideas. They bought the rights and Jan Animations didn't. Hasbro owns the IP and thus they are permitted to do whatever they like with their creation. If they feel Jan's work is a threat to their business they are entitled to file a C&D, however the law states that the court has to decide to hold it up. Jan Animations decided not to go to court. Hasbro did not "enforce" anything, they sent Jan Animations a notice saying that if they continued to use their IP they would take them to court. Jan Animations would have the right to contest it then and fight it in court. They chose not to, mostly because they know they have no case.

 

3. They should have the right. If you create something that is part of your business, any change to its image or understanding you would want control over. I wouldn't give random people the rights to use my stuff because I don't have any control over how they use it. They COULD make something cool and nice with it, or they could make something that makes my IP look bad. You don't know what they are going to do, and there are tons of factors. Extremely catering content from fanwork may hurt the official work because it could make people expect more catering content. It's giving partial control of your work to someone else who does not work for you and you are playing a game of luck and faith when you do that.

Jesus man, took you long enough. And to think I have to start copypasting leftist replies offa /pol/ to get you to make a correct defense of a large business. Well, in the end ya did it.

[Guest]

 

 

Yes, why would we ever distrust a large corporation, why would we ever voice concern over a large conglomerate. It's not like historically large top heavy corporations have ever done any wrong.

 

Did I say they have never done wrong? No.

 

However just because they are big business does not mean you should instantly assume they are in the wrong here. That's a fallacy. Here's your argument:

 

A says B.

A is bad.

Therefore B is wrong.

 

Let's plug in the variables.

 

"Stalin says 2+2 is 4.

Stalin is bad.

Therefore 2+2 is not 4."

 

This is literally the logic you're applying. Just because big businesses have a bad reputation doesn't mean you suddenly do not have to prove shit.

[Shenron00 366]

We should sent hate mail.

Wouldn't that make us just as bad as the haters who condemn us for liking ponies. We'd be condemning Hasbro for doing something that is actually pretty reasonable, just because while we don't like the decision. Haters condemn us for doing something that they don't approve of. I get what both sides are trying to say: Hasbro doesn't want people using their property and making the character popular with HB having nothing to do with it. The fans on the other hand, are already in love with the character and don't want to have to see him change in any way, shape, or form. Fans don't like the change, and, like I said a million times, I don't like it either. Since I don't know how to put this in a way that's clear and not rude, I'll be blunt: Fucking deal with it people! It's not the end of the goshdamn world! (I don't like saying The Lord's name in vain) Edited March 23, 2014 by Shenron00

[Guest]

Jesus man, took you long enough. And to think I have to start copypasting leftist replies offa /pol/ to get you to make a correct defense of a large business. Well, in the end ya did it.

I actually was never defending big business, I was defending the right to enforce your rights. Clearly you are not paying as close attention as you seem to act.

 

Also pretending to troll when you get proven wrong is disgraceful.

[Adorkable 2,737]

they might move this to the debate pit if it gets any more heated in here.

 

I actually think there's already one there. ^^"

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Did I say they have never done wrong? No.

 

However just because they are big business does not mean you should instantly assume they are in the wrong here. That's a fallacy. Here's your argument:

 

A says B.

A is bad.

Therefore B is wrong.

 

Let's plug in the variables.

 

"Stalin says 2+2 is 4.

Stalin is bad.

Therefore 2+2 is not 4."

 

This is literally the logic you're applying. Just because big businesses have a bad reputation doesn't mean you suddenly do not have to prove shit.

Slight distrust and disapproval does not equal just auto assuming they are in the wrong. I was advocating the questioning of large corporations, not jumping the ship and saying "because they are large,they are wrong".

I actually was never defending big business, I was defending the right to enforce your rights. Clearly you are not paying as close attention as you seem to act.

 

Also pretending to troll when you get proven wrong is disgraceful.

I am not pretending to troll, I can link you the thread on /pol/ were I was litterally copypasting your replies, and using others replies and posting them here. And again, you did not prove me wrong. But whatever dude.

[Guest]

Slight distrust and disapproval does not equal just auto assuming they are in the wrong. I was advocating the questioning of large corporations, not jumping the ship and saying "because they are large,they are wrong".

I am willing to bet that if we changed Hasbro to a small tiny company and this situation was identical you'd be singing a different tune anyways.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

I am willing to bet that if we changed Hasbro to a small tiny company and this situation was identical you'd be singing a different tune anyways.

Just did the exact same thing you accused me of. Because if I say a, then of course I would also say b.

[Guest]

I am not pretending to troll, I can link you the thread on /pol/ were I was litterally copypasting your replies, and using others replies and posting them here. And again, you did not prove me wrong. But whatever dude.

 

 

How did I not prove you wrong. Please explain. You keep saying stuff along the lines of "you aren't right", "I am trolling" and "I am right" but you are doing literally nothing to prove it.

 

Please point out to me exactly what I said that was wrong. I am all ears.

Just did the exact same thing you accused me of. Because if I say a, then of course I would also say b.

I'm simply making you a wager, because it's clear you have a hatred for big business thus you want to be "the rebel" fighting for "the little guy". But if you had a good argument for why it would be different, I'd listen to it. So no, I am not doing the same thing because I am not instantly assuming you'd be wrong.

 

Also out of curiosity: since when did good trolls require having other people write their replies?

Edited March 23, 2014 by Guest

[Metemponychosis 1,257]

The best thing for high-quality animators to do is to seek permission like what Double Rainboom did. I just hope Hasbro works at making seeking permission from them more simple than what it is, by making some public information available about a simple-to-follow guideline for who to contact about projects and things. More people would do it if Hasbro showed better iniative about making that contact info public. Many people go with, 'I'll just do it and hope it doesn't catch their attention and strike them as something that may cause misidentification with their own product', rather than seeking permission, due to the fact that they're not quite so obvious in doing that, yet.

I believe that they got permission because it was signed as a student project. Falls under non-profit educational purpose. If I remember correctly, it was made as a project for college. Not many people can claim this kind of use.

[BlinkZ 1,151]

my reaction

 

What next FimFiction.net

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

How did I not prove you wrong. Please explain. You keep saying stuff along the lines of "you aren't right", "I am trolling" and "I am right" but you are doing literally nothing to prove it.

 

Please point out to me exactly what I said that was wrong. I am all ears.

 

I'm simply making you a wager, because it's clear you have a hatred for big business thus you want to be "the rebel" fighting for "the little guy". But if you had a good argument for why it would be different, I'd listen to it. So no, I am not doing the same thing because I am not instantly assuming you'd be wrong.

ok you win.

How did I not prove you wrong. Please explain. You keep saying stuff along the lines of "you aren't right", "I am trolling" and "I am right" but you are doing literally nothing to prove it.

 

Please point out to me exactly what I said that was wrong. I am all ears.

 

I'm simply making you a wager, because it's clear you have a hatred for big business thus you want to be "the rebel" fighting for "the little guy". But if you had a good argument for why it would be different, I'd listen to it. So no, I am not doing the same thing because I am not instantly assuming you'd be wrong.

 

Also out of curiosity: since when did good trolls require having other people write their replies?

You know, you beat me. Fully and truthfully. And I never said I was a good troll, just that i was using 4chan to do my work for me. You won, but you are still an ass.

[NavelColt 22,878]

I believe that they got permission because it was signed as a student project. Falls under non-profit educational purpose. If I remember correctly, it was made as a project for college. Not many people can claim this kind of use.

 

It's not the only kind of use they allow, though :3 It's not fair to assume Hasbro would approve no other fan project that isn't educational, just because the only known example we have so far was for educational purposes.

[Adorkable 2,737]

I think you guys may be going a little too deep in this. ^^"

[Red Diamond 549]

No one, I repeat no one writes a C&D over YouTube PM. Instead, they e-mail you, and send you a package. I'm pretty sure this is fake.

[Adorkable 2,737]

No one, I repeat no one writes a C&D over YouTube PM. Instead, they e-mail you, and send you a package. I'm pretty sure this is fake.

 

I remember seeing something about Jan saying he wouldn't have deleted all of those videos with the time and work he's put into them unless he knew the letter was legit.

 

Maybe Twitter?

 

EDIT: Here it is! ^^

 

I was right, it was Twitter. ^^

Edited March 23, 2014 by Adorkable

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

No one, I repeat no one writes a C&D over YouTube PM. Instead, they e-mail you, and send you a package. I'm pretty sure this is fake.

I have the email they sent Jan in the op, along with a vocaroo of Shadyvox (the VA for button mash) talking on the subject, and he confirms that they were C&D'd.

[TrunksXV 33]

Just to throw this out there. Jan Animation's stuff has already been mirrored on youtube. Go grab the content while you can. 

[Metemponychosis 1,257]

It's not the only kind of use they allow, though :3 It's not fair to assume Hasbro would approve no other fan project that isn't educational, just because the only known example we have so far was for educational purposes.

True. But it doesn't give me a lot of hope though. I guess you're right when you say that they could teach people how to contact them over stuff like this.

 

Some day some employee is going to arrive at work saying something like: "Hey! I got a new idea! Let's teach people how to ask permission and outline our directives! That way we don't have to hammer people down!"

 

Though, I believe you where right before when you said that people should educate themselves in the process instead of hoping that they won't get caught. Gotta live with the beast if we can't kill it.