Final thread on this: Saving Humanity by destroying all Humanity?

[Bendy 1,819]

Note: OK, this is my final thread on this. There will be no more Conversion Bureau threads from me here. You can shout 'yay' now.

 

Question: Saving Humanity by destroying all Humanity? That's the basic premise of many TCB stories.

 

Magic barrier going to erase everything we ever built and turning us all into pastel Ponies. With or without free minds, it still killing all Humans, bodies at least. Even with our Human minds intact.

 

So, how does saving Humanity by destroying all Humanity make sense? How is that saving Humanity?

Edited April 6, 2014 by Rush

[Harmony Cube 80]

Well, it would save humanity from many suicides because of war and judgment.

There's a down side too, there's little electronics there and would drive many mad and insane.

But that's just my opinion.

[Bendy 1,819]

Well, it would save humanity from many suicides because of war and judgment.

There's a down side too, there's little electronics there and would drive many mad and insane.

But that's just my opinion.

 

That's near the same logic of the Reapers from Mass Effect. Killing all spacefaring organics in the galaxy every 50 thousands years to save organics.

 

Surely, there's better ways to save someone by killing them all?

Edited April 6, 2014 by Rush

[Scootalove 10,684]

To answer the question, they don't really understand that destroying all humanity isn't saving humanity but they are too busy converting humanity into ponies. Frankly, it's insane in their mindset.

[Bendy 1,819]

To answer the question, they don't really understand that destroying all humanity isn't saving humanity but they are too busy converting humanity into ponies. Frankly, it's insane in their mindset.

 

TCB Ponies: "Without our intervention, Humans are doomed. We are your salvation. So killing all Humans, by turning all Humans into Ponies is the best way to save you."

 

Wat? That's the logic of many TCB stories.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Rush

[Planty 1,052]

It's giving them an illusion, saving them by removing choice means that they can never do wrong. It destroys everything about humanity ie the soul, but you keep the "physical" humanity so you save them. 

 

= HUMANITY SAVED!

 

 

 

N.B : this seems similar to God and sin, we could not be free if we could not have the choice to sin.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Happy Plant

[Scootalove 10,684]

TCB Ponies: "Without our intervention, Humans are doomed. We are your salvation. So killing all Humans, by turning all Humans into Ponies is the best way to save you."

 

Wat? That's the logic of many TCB stories.

Well, that is their blind logic. Meaning they won't accept any logic, but stick to that statement just because.

[Harmony Cube 80]

That's near the same logic of the Reapers from Mass Effect. Killing all spacefaring organics in the galaxy every 50 thousands years to save organics.

 

Surely, there's better ways to save someone by killing them all?

There is, it just depends of the person, some can't handle it and some would be more than happy to be there and would want to save the insane ones.

[Shenron00 366]

You're saving them from suffering horribly. Or maybe you're preventing over-population.

[SveciaDash 364]

You save humanity by uniting humanity.

 

and cleansing the corruption from the human race.

 

and later on galactic conquest *yay*

Edited April 8, 2014 by SveciaDash

[Bendy 1,819]

You're saving them from suffering horribly. Or maybe you're preventing over-population.

No! It's genocide! The TCB Ponies might as well be the Reapers from Mass Effect.

You save humanity by uniting humanity.

 

and cleansing the corruption from the human race.

 

and later on galactic conquest *yay*

It's evil. Might does not make right. Edited April 8, 2014 by Rush

[Shenron00 366]

No! It's genocide! The TCB Ponies might as well be the Reapers from Mass Effect.

Would you rather die or be turned into a mindless pony? I would choose destroying all humanity over letting everyone turn into mindless ponies.

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

 

 

Note: OK, this is my final thread on this. There will be no more Conversion Bureau threads from me here. You can shout 'yay' now.

 

Who is complaining? 

 

I think that this is a good question. For me the answer is simple. I don't care about "humanity". It's a gigantic group that is so many things at the same time that, in the end, it means absolutely nothing for me. I care about people. If by saving them, I'm destroying "humanity" I don't care. Specially if we are changing from on intelligent species to another, retaining our intelligence and our individual memories.

 

Since I know you like Mass Effect like I do, this is why I make a difference between the reapers and some of the "less borg-fied" ponies. It's about individuality for me.

[Gourgeist 262]

I want concentrate all swag, swagger, duck faces, and other stupidity that goes on. I'll call it a "Yolocaust"

[Ribbonfree 2,383]

I want concentrate all swag, swagger, duck faces, and other stupidity that goes on. I'll call it a "Yolocaust"

 

And here we have a perfect example of 'focusing on the wrong thing'.

 

Stupidity is not a problem in and of itself. The problem lies in close-mindedness and intolerance, and those traits exist across the spectrum of humanity's intelligences.

[Bendy 1,819]

Who is complaining?

 

I think that this is a good question. For me the answer is simple. I don't care about "humanity". It's a gigantic group that is so many things at the same time that, in the end, it means absolutely nothing for me. I care about people. If by saving them, I'm destroying "humanity" I don't care. Specially if we are changing from on intelligent species to another, retaining our intelligence and our individual memories.

 

Since I know you like Mass Effect like I do, this is why I make a difference between the reapers and some of the "less borg-fied" ponies. It's about individuality for me.

The thing is if we have free minds, most of Hunanity would turn into something like Nazi Germany. We would want revenge for them ridding us of our bodies and Equestria would burn in the flames of war. So only Newfoals will exist, former Human Ponies would kill all non Newfoals. Edited April 8, 2014 by Rush

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

The thing is if we have free minds, most of Hunanity would turn into something like Nazi Germany. We would want revenge for them ridding us of our bodies and Equestria would burn in the flames of war.

I'm not sure I follow where you are going with this argument. To be honest, I can think of a lot of people that would support Equestria even if they created the barrier with the intention of conquering Earth. That said, I don't equate wanting revenge to "something like Nazi Germany". First of all, the problem with the Nazis was the enormous mind-numbing ultra-patriotic propaganda and vilification of "The Enemy". If we are talking about about a scenario where Equestria is really trying to conquer Earth, by forcing ponification or death by Barrier, then I have no problem whatsoever with people, ponified or no, fighting back.

 

The part about revenge, well, I'd assume that this version of Celestia has been doing this for a long time. She would have a way of dealing with this sort of dissidence. In my opinion "changing the mind" of the humans would be the best way, but I assumed that this is not happening for this discussion.

 

Maybe part of the reason I don't see how humans would be such a big problem in this scenario is because I don't think that humans are inherently more powerful or something than other rational species. Unless of course this Celestia is unbelievably stupid and doesn't know what she is getting herself into.

[Bendy 1,819]

I'm not sure I follow where you are going with this argument. To be honest, I can think of a lot of people that would support Equestria even if they created the barrier with the intention of conquering Earth. That said, I don't equate wanting revenge to "something like Nazi Germany". First of all, the problem with the Nazis was the enormous mind-numbing ultra-patriotic propaganda and vilification of "The Enemy". If we are talking about about a scenario where Equestria is really trying to conquer Earth, by forcing ponification or death by Barrier, then I have no problem whatsoever with people, ponified or no, fighting back.

 

The part about revenge, well, I'd assume that this version of Celestia has been doing this for a long time. She would have a way of dealing with this sort of dissidence. In my opinion "changing the mind" of the humans would be the best way, but I assumed that this is not happening for this discussion.

 

Maybe part of the reason I don't see how humans would be such a big problem in this scenario is because I don't think that humans are inherently more powerful or something than other rational species. Unless of course this Celestia is unbelievably stupid and doesn't know what she is getting herself into.

Changing our minds is slavery, no different than Reaper indoctrination. If our minds are free, many former Human Ponies will hate the Ponies and go all 'kill all Ponies'. Edited April 8, 2014 by Rush

[XRainbowDash 17]

If you wanted to save humanity. We could just create an ultra realistic simulator which you can feel and see everything. Which happens where you can join many other universes where there are different types of fantasies you can live in many different ways.  

Edited April 8, 2014 by XRainbowDash

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

Changing our minds is slavery, no different than Reaper indoctrination. If our minds are free, many former Human Ponies will hate the Ponies and go all 'kill all Ponies'.

Yes and yes. What I'm trying to say is that I need to know the intentions behind ponification.

 

If changing the mind is necessary for my survival, then I'm okay with it. If I'm being intentionally forced into transformation, even if it doesn't even change my mind, then I'd say no. We also need to talk about what kinds of modifications to the mind are made. Suppose humans are monstrous beasts compared to ponies and the only way I can survive AND be accepted is if I'm made more peaceful. Then I'm okay with it, but only if the existence of the Barrier is natural, and not caused by the ponies. because if it is, then it was not necessary for me to be transformed. It's their fault.

 

You see, if I didn't think think that the Reapers are full of shit in ME, I might be contemplating the possibility of accepting that their indoctrination is necessary for the salvation of mankind. And even then, I think it's shady because "reaper-fied" civilizations are one single entity, with loss of individual minds to the whole. But indoctrination is just a tool. The reapers say they are trying to save humanity, but their line of reasoning is bogus. Even if they think they are in the right, they are not. Starting with the fact that they are not necessary. It's the same with the ponification. Most important thing here is "is the existence of the barrier a natural phenomenon, or was it intentionally created in this scenario?"

 

On the second point: of course people are going to be pissed. What I'm asking is "Is Celestia a stupid moron that thought everyone would be happy with being conquered?", because if she is not, then she certainly has ways of dealing with this and I don't grant that humans are going to be this unstoppable force of revenge.

[facemelt91 62]

Let me explain it to you in song.

 

You wake up one morning and your girlfriend is dead

You go downstairs; all your pets are dead.

Somebody phone's you: you parents are dead

You call your brother, but he is dead

Almost everyone is dead

 

And you've had a bad day.

Everyone's dead

Everyone's dead

Now you are the king

Everyone's dead

You've had a bad day.

[Bendy 1,819]

Yes and yes. What I'm trying to say is that I need to know the intentions behind ponification.

 

If changing the mind is necessary for my survival, then I'm okay with it

 

Nope, we're better off dying in the flames of nuclear fire.

 

Also what happens if we smash the barrier either by ourselves or Ponies helping us, what would happen?

 

We would conquer Equestria and place it under occupation under a dictatorship and not kill all the Ponies. Possible enslavement of the Ponies for hundreds of years, not that I would support enslavement, but I think some Humans would support it to be done to be non Humans.

 

That or we nuke Equestria to oblivion and leave it a baron wasteland of ash and radiation.

 

 

Suppose humans are monstrous beasts compared to ponies and the only way I can survive AND be accepted is if I'm made more peaceful. Then I'm okay with it, but only if the existence of the Barrier is natural, and not caused by the ponies. because if it is, then it was not necessary for me to be transformed. It's their fault.

 

No, it is not. Even if we are 'monsters' then we just a product of environment/universe. What business is it of theirs whether we die or not?

 

Even if we are to become The Imperium of Man, which is a galaxy-spanning interstellar human empire from Warhammer 40K, that ruthlessly commits genocides on all non Human xenos (aliens), it still does not give them right to 'save' us by turning us into Ponies. And the fact almost every other dominate sapient alien is just like Humanity in Warhammer 40K. In Warhammer 40K Humans have magic and the God Emperor of Mankind, the TCB Ponies would not stand a chance.

 

If the Ponies tried to 'save' Humanity, peaceful or not, the Humans from one of the Warhammer 40K universes, we would kill them all without negotiation or mercy. 

 

Also, there are alternate universes where Humanity (still Human) and Ponies comes together in peace and build a brighter future in a Mass Effect or Futurama crossover universe thing with Ponies and Humans, which is far better than The Conversion Bureau universes.

 

 

 

 

On the second point: of course people are going to be pissed. What I'm asking is "Is Celestia a stupid moron that thought everyone would be happy with being conquered?", because if she is not, then she certainly has ways of dealing with this and I don't grant that humans are going to be this unstoppable force of revenge.

 

 An angry mod of seven billions Humans, it's going to cause damage. Even if we can't beat overpowered Celestia, what is likely to happen is this http://www.fimfiction.net/story/13194/the-conversion-bureau-still-human

Edited April 9, 2014 by Rush

[Tetrakemy 221]

Would you rather die or be turned into a mindless pony? I would choose destroying all humanity over letting everyone turn into mindless ponies.

 

I would rather die then be turned into a slave OR a mindless puppet!

[Metemponychosis 1,236]

@, you missed the point. The important thing here is intention.

[Bendy 1,819]

@, you missed the point. The important thing here is intention.

 

Slavery, that is the intention of TCB. Some Anti TCB expand on it and make Ponies want to destroy all Humanity across the multiverse.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Rush