Im giving a speech on suicide

[Dattebayo 2,850]

I'm not one to give advice here..

 

During my middle school years, I was being bullied.

I told my dad about it, and he told me to kick the bully' s a$$.

 

So the next day, when the bullying began, I clocked him in the jaw.

Most the ensuing fight...but be never bullied me again.

Respect, I guess.

 

All throughout my ensuing school years, every time a bully seed was about to be planted in my garden, I nipped that sh*t in the bud. With violence.

I had a reputation for standing up for myself, and I pretty much became unbullyable due to the fact that I never lost a fight.

Sure, I traded that for a bunch of suspensions...but I'd do it all again. It was definitely worth it.

 

So, kids. Moral of the story is, "don't take no sh*t".

[SasQ 1,380]

im just doing my job... I'm sorry if you don't like what I'm doing, but a am doing it to protect and serve.

 

I nowhere said that I don't like what you're doing, so I don't know where did you get that from. I appreciate what you do, and that you're making some effort to prepare for your talk. This means that you actually care, and this is good sign.

 

I only said that having such great opportunity you can make a better use of it than "just doing your job", because look, there are all those teachers and authorities and politicians, and they're all "just doing their jobs", but it doesn't seem to work, so it is not enough to solve the problem. Bullying is still there, more than ever before, and no one seem to do anything about it. Explaining those kids that suicide is not much a good idea is not enough, because the problem of bullying is still there, unsolved, and it will pop out somewhere else. We can hope that this won't be suicide, but it could turn out as some shootout or other serious business. That's why I adviced you to rather focus on the root of the problem (if you can), which causes these suicides & other bad results, because then informing kids about suicides wouldn't be needed.

 

Talking with them about suicides I consider a bad idea for several reasons.

 

First off, do you know why people commit suicides? Killing oneself is not so easy. It is the option of last resort, so it could be committed only when one doesn't see any other way before him/her. It's possible only when one's perspective is so much narrowed/focused, that he sees only one solution to his problem (the ultimate one). I helped several people to avoid suicide by making them notice that their perspective is artificially narrowed and by making them see other exits. But when you talk with someone about suicide, and he never considered this option before, you actually supplying him with that choice so he can choose it now, even if it was off the table beforehand. And this is not a good idea. It's better to focus on finding other solutions and letting them forget about the suicide one by not mentioning it at all. They will never resort to suicide and won't need this option anymore if they had something else to choose.

 

Also, even when you speak about someone else committing suicide, they have to imagine it somehow to understand what you say. So you unknowingly program them for suicide, by making their subconscious minds to clearly picture the situation and then associate it with the problems they have. Then you won't have to wait long before their brains will use these associations you've just made between their neurons. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't like to have them on my conscience.

 

The last reason is known as "not thinking about the blue elephant". If you tell someone to not think about the blue elephant, he cannot help himself but to think about the blue elephant. From the same reason, if you tell them how not to commit suicide, their brains still have to picture the situation before they could negate it. Negation is done at the level of conscious mind, which is a level higher than the subconscious which makes the picturing. So they will picture the suicide stuff, react emotionally, and associate, before they even be able to negate it logically. And that's too late.

 

If I were in your position, I'd rather focus on telling them how can they deal with the bullies (which are the source of their suicidal thinking, depression and fear) and what help they can get, especially from Police and school authorities. Whom they can tell about their problems. I'd assure them that whatever their problem is, they can always count on you (and other people) to help them solve it. As @@The Late Night Shine said:

 

I think the biggest thing to help with suicide is to give any depressed person hope

 

and:

 

While this third point may only work on an interpersonal level, encouraging people to feel important and like they have worth is a big deal. Depression tends to generate feelings of worthlessness, which are difficult to defeat. Be careful, though, not to try and guilt-trip people out of suicide

 

I'd also say some shoutout to the actual bullies, because there's always a chance that some of them will be there sitting among your audience. And they have to become aware that what they do is a serious business, not just some child play. Bullying is a crime, and can be (and should be!) treated as such, and they have to be aware of the possible consequences of their actions. But scaring them is not enough. There's always some reason behind their bullying other kids, and it's usually some problems in their own houses and families (e.g. some divorce, pathology, bad parenting etc.). So they should also be aware that if they have some issues, they don't need to flush them on other kids, but they can get help instead.

 

Just make sure that all you say won't be just empty words. There's nothing worse than raise someone's hopes only to fail them afterwards.

 

And remember, i dident come up with the idea to do this, the SCHOOL itself contacted L.A.P.D.

 

I considered this when I was writing my first answer. I know that there's always a bigger fish. Most public services and government agencies are made on a structure of a pyramid, where the people on the top control the ones below, and just make orders, not telling them the whole truth. But you should also be aware that they can use you as their tool and trick you into doing something bad to these kids. Be careful to avoid such things.

 

Also, thank you for the advice on where to find info, i will use it, im shure.

 

You're welcome. As I said, if you had some problems with finding these resources, just tell me, and I'll try to find them myself and give you the direct URLs.

Edited April 29, 2014 by SasQ

[Flash Fire 386]

My daughter (age 11) has, and is a member of, an anti-bully club at her school. They meet during lunch, recesses, or after school and they discuss bullying, set up skits, make and hang posters and do demonstrations along with their teacher advisor to show how to cope with and handle bullying. They also keep an eye out, like a sort of community watch, and report any problems they see in the school. Perhaps a similar club could be suggested to the school you are helping.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Flash Fire

[SasQ 1,380]

anti-bully club at her school [...] They also keep an eye out, like a sort of community watch, and report any problems they see in the school

 

Hey, this is actually a great idea! It has several good things:

1. It shows that anyone can help the Police to watch over people's safety, and that policemen are just like us.

2. It makes people care more about each other.

3. It teaches them how to live in society.

4. It increases the safety of the whole group.

5. It increases confidence of all members of the "citizen watch".

6. It shows the bullies that they're in minority and that they won't be able to single out their victim from the crowd.

7. It makes the teachers less busy.

Edited April 29, 2014 by SasQ

[Silver Blade 56]

I was a pretty lucky kid, I was only really bullied one time.

 

When I was in 7th grade I was at a dance and I asked a boy I thought was cute to dance. I didn't know he had a girlfriend. She spent the entire night terrorizing me. I was scared out of my wits of her, and she said if I told anyone, she would get her high school friends to beat me up. I went home and cried my eyes out to my parents and Monday morning we went straight to the principals office to get it straightened out. She ended up getting suspended for three days, and nothing ever came of it afterwards.

 

About 10 years after that incident, I went to a friends going away party, and she was there. I had a chance to speak with her that night. She didn't remember me, but she wasn't surprised because she had gotten suspended a lot during middle school. She also apologized to me. By that time I was over it, but it still made me feel good. It also turned out that one of her high school friends was my neighbor that I had grown up with.

 

Honestly, the best thing that I would say is that it gets better. High school is a pretty lousy time for most people, but while it may seem like it's carrying on forever, it's over pretty quick.

 

] I think i will use parts of this if thats ok

[Troblems 5,622]

] I think i will use parts of this if thats ok

Go for it. Obviously it's not exactly what you were looking for since your talk is about suicide, but like you said there are a lot of suicides in that age range because of bullying. I particularly appreciate where you're doing it, as I grew up in Southern California.

[Silver Blade 56]

My daughter (age 11) has, and is a member of, an anti-bully club at her school. They meet during lunch, recesses, or after school and they discuss bullying, set up skits, make and hang posters and do demonstrations along with their teacher advisor to show how to cope with and handle bullying. They also keep an eye out, like a sort of community watch, and report any problems they see in the school.

That is a spectacular idea! I could talk about the topic with the principle! Thank you for the idea.

[Shanks 10,817]

I have dealt with this monster a few times in my life and still struggle with it, there are many different reasons and issues which can cause someone to become so depressed that they consider suicide and it isn't always the people you might suspect and people that are suicidal are not because they are selfish or weak but because they have tried for such a long time to be strong and to hang in their but are overwhelmed and need our help. I first began having suicidal thoughts after my grandmother died, she was 64 and I was only 12. Her death was, sudden, unexpected and shocked everyone. It was the first time I ever dealt with grief so I didn't understand why I felt the way I did, I didn't understand why I felt numb much of the time or why I had these sudden outbursts of intense anger. 

 

Flash forward to my teen years and I dealt with depression as well as serious anger issues due to bullying and many other factors but only occasional thoughts of suicide as oppose to it consuming so much of my thoughts back then. I often times let my rage get the better of me, I became a monster and threatened and even used violence against people to get my way but all if did was make the pain that much worse. I was never physically assaulted because I towered over most of my peers but bullying isn't always physical, sometimes it is talking behind your back, someone pretending they are your friend when they are really not or singling you out because you are different. I had many difficulties socializing and making friends because I am on the Autism spectrum and was often singled out because of this.

 

Flash forward to my early to mid 20's much of my Dad's side of the family left him for dead which along with other stresses pushed me to the breaking point, I wondered if I had anything to live for anymore and questioned what the point was if I couldn't even trust them and most of my mothers side of the family is either far away or has passed on making me feel very lonely. And most recently was last fall when the pressures of work, school and other problems as well as disappointment with the way my life has turned out have crippled me to the point where I couldn't focus on even the simplest of tasks. My salvation came from an unexpected source being a work related knee injury, in my case my 4th injury (but I suppose that is an issue for another time) it brought down my stress and made me for the first time in too long feel like an actual human being instead of a cog in a machine I have no future or stake in. I have decided that something needed to change, I was and still am scared and have doubts but I know that I have gone through worse and come out of it even stronger. 

[Silver Blade 56]

when I was a kid I was bullied a lot, and I did consider suicide, then i realized, that it was just because i was letting bullies get to my head.

I suppose that is why I agreed to make this "speech". Thank-you all for commenting.

I have a question for all of you as a side note.

What would you do if you saw someone being bullied? what about thinking about suicide? I wont judge what you say, just curious.

[I used to be a stranger 7,994]

"It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite. But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things, then there is much more rational and philosophic truth in the burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body, than in [William Archer's automatic suicide machines]. There is a meaning in burying the suicide apart. The man's crime is different from other crimes -- for it makes even crimes impossible."

-- G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy (1908)

 

An argument from reason against suicide probably isn't the best solution universally since suicide is inevitably emotionally rooted, but I thought it interesting to consider.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Blue

[Silver Blade 56]

I like what you said

"It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite. But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things, then there is much more rational and philosophic truth in the burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body, than in [William] Archer's suicidal automatic machines. There is a meaning in burying the suicide apart. The man's crime is different from other crimes -- for it makes even crimes impossible."

-- G.K. Chesterton, Orthodoxy (1908)

 

An argument from reason against suicide probably isn't the best solution universally since suicide is inevitably emotionally rooted, but I thought it interesting to consider.

I think I will use some parts of this. Are you okay with this?

oh, sorry, disregard what I just said, I forgot it was a quote from someone other then you...

[Dattebayo 2,850]

when I was a kid I was bullied a lot, and I did consider suicide, then i realized, that it was just because i was letting bullies get to my head.

I suppose that is why I agreed to make this "speech". Thank-you all for commenting.

I have a question for all of you as a side note.

What would you do if you saw someone being bullied? what about thinking about suicide? I wont judge what you say, just curious.

I always go to the rescue. I'm stupid and idealistic like that.

A lot of friends I've had in my life are people who were in situations being bullied that I put a stop to.

 

I've talked my fair share of people out of suicide...I would rather not talk about that, though.

[Silver Blade 56]

I always go to the rescue. I'm stupid and idealistic like that.

A lot of friends I've had in my life are people who were in situations being bullied that I put a stop to.

I've talked my fair share of people out of suicide...I would rather not talk about that, though.

Good for you, Are you in school? Because if you are you should also tell a councilor, but its your choice.

[Dattebayo 2,850]

Good for you, Are you in school? Because if you are you should also tell a councilor, but its your choice.

Nah, not anymore. It's from back when I was.

 

What people don't get is that telling an adult does f*ck-all.

It may even worsen the situation. Sure, best case scenario, the guy gets suspended for 3 days. But then he/she comes back with a vengeance.

You need to stick up for yourself. No necessarily with violence...

But you need to establish that you aren't anyone's punching bag.

[Silver Blade 56]

Good point, at my Elementary school, the teachers literally hated all boys, no joke (they are female).

[Scoots and Dash 208]

Nothing is more precious than the time we have to live. Average life expectancy being about 82.6 years is nothing. Live life to the fullest and don't let anything or anyone get you down. They have no real control of your life. If they do, seek help. You should always have the opportunity to make the choices in your life. Human emotions are so complicated, I can't begin to explain. That shouldn't ever justify you taking your own life. Even if you think you're 100% sure that it's the only thing you can do, it isn't. You're thinking is obviously shrouded by your serious emotions. It's like when you get really mad and you say you hate someone and you really don't mean it. The same thing goes with being depressed. You put yourself down and go into a spiral of emotional catastrophe. Always seek help from a friend or professional they will help to bring you out of this state. 

 

There are actual instances and organizations in this world that support "the right to die". I don't know what I think about this. What will dying do to benefit you? If you have some severely painful and un-treatable.disease or something, then there is some understanding. But it's just hard to comprehend. How do you know what you really want is death? There are always other options. That's just my opinion.  

[Dattebayo 2,850]

I got one...

 

So, I had a group of friends once. They were good kids. Stayed out of trouble. Kept their noses clean. Didn't do drugs.

Then I met a girl who had just moved from forget-where, and she had no friends.

I was running the mile for PE when I noticed her just walking the track (1st sign of trouble, right there) so I decided to be friendly and strike up a conversation.

We hit it off.

 

I introduced her to my group of friends after a few days, and within 2 god damn months, she infected every single one of my friends and they all became drug addicted scene kids who just want to get high and party.

I tried to tell them that drugs are wrong, I tried to tell them to not do them, but she even turned everyone against me, saying that I wanted to control their lives.

I didn't want.to...I just didn't want them to become f*cking druggies and ruin their lives.

And this wasn't just weed, friend. Hardcore sh*t, like PCP, ecstasy and acid.

 

For two whole years, those a$$holes kept shouting things at me from faraway and calling me names, but kept running away when I confrtonted them.

They enjoyed this. This was some sort of sick fun. You should've seen their faces, I can't describe the rush they seemed to be getting from this. I remeber one guy slobbering.

It was a bit terryfing.

 

Some people are naturally born to enjoy the misery of others. I wouldn't know why. I still don't know.

It's not something you WANT to keep thinking about...it's distrubing.

[Silver Blade 56]

Do you still know any of these people? and if so, have they changed?

This story is a good description of an abusive relationship.

[Troblems 5,622]

 

 

What would you do if you saw someone being bullied? what about thinking about suicide? I wont judge what you say, just curious.

 

Oh dear. Here comes my ugly side.

 

I used to bully my brother when we were in school. However, I wouldn't let anyone else mess with him. Because of that nobody really messed with me either, except the one time mentioned above.

 

Obviously I'm older than the average age here on the forums, so I am dealing with adults at this point, but people don't bully me because to be frank, I don't put up with that bullshit. I'm not saying that adults can't be bullies, because they absolutely can, but rather that I call people on it.

 

If I see someone being bullied, I generally just insert myself physically between both parties, which usually works. Nobody likes being told off by short people. I learned this tactic from my mother-in-law, except she generally also carries lollipops to shove into people's mouths. It becomes quite difficult to bully someone when a tiny woman sticks a lollipop in your mouth. You just look too silly. 

 

As for suicide, I generally think of it as a negative thing. However, there are times when it isn't, such as illness. This is only applicable when it's been throughly thought through when not under duress.  To be frank, high schoolers haven't experienced enough of the world, unless the above is true as well. They may be currently miserable, but as I said two posts ago, things get better. Depression is a tough thing to get through, but it is possible to get help, particularly in high school. Talk to teachers, administrators of your school, a friend, someone, just get help.

[Shanks 10,817]

An argument from reason against suicide probably isn't the best solution universally since suicide is inevitably emotionally rooted, but I thought it interesting to consider.

Judgmental statements like that quotet do far more harm than good, people who are suicidal often have extremely low self esteem so those kind of statements could make them think "I am suicidal so therefore I am worthless and deserve to die" and it stigmatizes mental illness making people less likely to go get help. No matter how eloquent sounding the language it is clear that the person who said this along with everyone else who utters the same sentiments have no idea what the hell they are actually talking about. It disturbs and enrages me how readily people are willing to take this holier than thou tone with people who are suicidal when the overwhelming majority of them have no idea what it is like to be in such despair as to believe that ending it all may be the only way to end the pain.

 

Being suicidal is a serious mental illness not some grave moral failing deserving of condemnation, that statement isn't an argument against suicide but an argument against suicidal people. We don't accuse people who are crippled or in comas of being selfish so why should it be accepted to consider someone who is suicidal as selfish. I sincerely hope you or nobody else here has to go through that kind of pain but if you do than I hope that you do not have suffering through this kind of judgment and condemnation.

Edited April 29, 2014 by EarthbendingProdigy

[Silver Blade 56]

 

Obviously I'm older than the average age here on the forums, so I am dealing with adults at this point, but people don't bully me because to be frank, I don't put up with that bullshit. I'm not saying that adults can't be bullies, because they absolutely can, but rather that I call people on it.

 

Oh, yes, adults can be bullies. when I was in training, this one guy would handcuff me because he could.... Then i filed a report, and he got kicked out! lol, #justice!

[Dattebayo 2,850]

Nothing is more precious than the time we have to live. Average life expectancy being about 82.6 years is nothing. Live life to the fullest and don't let anything or anyone get you down. They have no real control of your life. If they do, seek help. You should always have the opportunity to make the choices in your life. Human emotions are so complicated, I can't begin to explain. That shouldn't ever justify you taking your own life. Even if you think you're 100% sure that it's the only thing you can do, it isn't. You're thinking is obviously shrouded by your serious emotions. It's like when you get really mad and you say you hate someone and you really don't mean it. The same thing goes with being depressed. You put yourself down and go into a spiral of emotional catastrophe. Always seek help from a friend or professional they will help to bring you out of this state.

 

There are actual instances and organizations in this world that support "the right to die". I don't know what I think about this. What will dying do to benefit you? If you have some severely painful and un-treatable.disease or something, then there is some understanding. But it's just hard to comprehend. How do you know what you really want is death? There are always other options. That's just my opinion.

It's very easy to think like that from the outside, looking in.

 

I remember a dark time of my life, just ended last December 2012...

Me and my famnily were kicked out of our home because my mom had "different priorities" than paying bills (she enables her druggie boyfriend and smokes weed).

We had to live from crummy hotle to crummy hotel for 6 months, stuffed in a small room with 6 other people.

As the days, weeks, and months went by, the pure hatred everyone experienced towards eachother and the overwhelming, mind-numbing monotomy started taking it's toll on me. Food didn't taste the same (of course, we had to eat bologna sandwhiches for Break, KLunch, and dinner, so it didn't matter), I didn't want to hang out with friends. I didn't enjoy anything.

I hated everything. Everyone.

 

That feeling...have you ever had it? True, gnawing despair?

It wells up in the base of your throat, and stays there even while you sleep.

Soon, you stop dreaming. Sleep becomes just a cycle. You turn into a robot.

 

 

God, I just wanted it to end...I couldn't handle it anymore.

I thought about suicide many times, and came close to it a few others.

Just thinking about how a little slash of the wrists would make the despait go away, just a few more etra asprins than usual...it seemed so...romantic, kind of.

 

Until you, generally, have experienced suffering tenamount to thinking of suicde, you can't possibly comment on the act of it being "dumb".

Do you still know any of these people? and if so, have they changed?

This story is a good description of an abusive relationship.

I know OF them.

They all dropped out of school and kept doindg drugs. Their life is going nowehre.

The girl is preganat with some other druggie and is currently unemployed and homeless.

 

Just desserts, I 'spose...

[I used to be a stranger 7,994]

This post has been redacted by the author.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Blue

[Shanks 10,817]

I grant that the quote was provided without due context and would serve very poorly for any sort of explanation or discussion to people to implore them not to commit suicide, but it does well to serve a just boot into the ass of some stogy philosopher who seriously argues that more people ought to kill themselves (because unfortunately, there are many people in academia who do just that, even today).

There are far better way to do that though than a quote that people could easily take the wrong way, assuming that the quote wasn't actually intended to condemn and judge people who go through that. The argument sounds "logical" but to me it honestly sounds condescending, especially as someone who has struggle with this. I really wish people would be more careful what they say when they talk about this, people who go through this pain are listening.

[Flash Fire 386]

 It becomes quite difficult to bully someone when a tiny woman sticks a lollipop in your mouth. You just look too silly. 

 

This is fantastic! I find loud cheerful music has a similar effect.