So Hasbro is Claiming Fan-Made Videos Now. Thoughts?

[nami438 90]

But having just a 2 second clip in a review makes the content ID match, it is extremely inconvenient to reviewers, and people of the like.

I would like ContentID to only work if one exceeds a certain amount of time with it, like 5 seconds. Not sure if legal though.

 

But now I know people will try cutting an entire movie into 5 second bites, upload them all to Youtube in a playlist, monetize them all... They are why we can't have nice things.

[DonShine 6]

I would like ContentID to only work if one exceeds a certain amount of time with it, like 5 seconds. Not sure if legal though.

 

But now I know people will try cutting an entire movie into 5 second bites, upload them all to Youtube in a playlist, monetize them all... They are why we can't have nice things.

 

Dude, your an extreme of the extremes. Your 5 second, and 5 second video movie thing is way unreasonable. No one would do that, cause it would take hours upon hours just to format. Then it will take an additional week or more just to upload all the bits. No one has that kind of time to get less then 10% of advertisement earnings. Oh, and you only get said earnings when they click the add, so fat chance getting anything at all.

 

Also, like I said before, 5 seconds of review footage is enough to cause CID to attack. Which means all reviews will be hit for showing anything. It makes no sense, and is costing YouTube money in the long run.

[Kay Dreamer 884]

I don't do animations. But I am a content creator, and also developing my own IP which I will one day turn into a series of novels. So this is from the perspective of a person who creates fan art, as well the owner of a completely original IP.

 

If you create something using the IP of another person or company, it's only fair that any profit made goes to them unless you'd worked out a deal beforehand. They own the entire universe you are using to build your creation. If your work is set within their universe, sorry, but that gives them a claim over it, because they own that universe. If the IP I'm creating ever took off, I would have absolutely no issue with people creating content set within my universe... but I would have an issue with them making money off it. The very core of it is still mine.

 

It'd be like someone selling a novel filled with original characters, but set at Hogwarts using all the rules of J.K Rowling's wizarding world. Sure it's full of original content, but the core universe is still Rowling's property.

 

Personally, if I were creating fanvids, I would much prefer the profit from those fanvids to go to the IP holder than have that IP holder tell me to take my work down. Having to remove something you slaved over for weeks would be heartwrenching. The alternative to Hasbro ContentID-ing fan work is Hasbro serving C&D's to the creators of these fanvids. I'm sure we'd all rather those videos remain up for the fandom to enjoy. If that means Hasbro claiming the monetisation for them, that's only fair. They're made using Hasbro's stuff.

 

Review vids are another matter entirely, as they fall under Fair Use and it's perfectly legal for the creator to profit off those. I'm discussing things like Snowdrop and Button Mash.

[Kel_Grym 1,917]

I don't do animations. But I am a content creator, and also developing my own IP which I will one day turn into a series of novels. So this is from the perspective of a person who creates fan art, as well the owner of a completely original IP.

 

If you create something using the IP of another person or company, it's only fair that any profit made goes to them unless you'd worked out a deal beforehand. They own the entire universe you are using to build your creation. If your work is set within their universe, sorry, but that gives them a claim over it, because they own that universe. If the IP I'm creating ever took off, I would have absolutely no issue with people creating content set within my universe... but I would have an issue with them making money off it. The very core of it is still mine.

 

It'd be like someone selling a novel filled with original characters, but set at Hogwarts using all the rules of J.K Rowling's wizarding world. Sure it's full of original content, but the core universe is still Rowling's property.

 

Personally, if I were creating fanvids, I would much prefer the profit from those fanvids to go to the IP holder than have that IP holder tell me to take my work down. Having to remove something you slaved over for weeks would be heartwrenching. The alternative to Hasbro ContentID-ing fan work is Hasbro serving C&D's to the creators of these fanvids. I'm sure we'd all rather those videos remain up for the fandom to enjoy. If that means Hasbro claiming the monetisation for them, that's only fair. They're made using Hasbro's stuff.

 

Review vids are another matter entirely, as they fall under Fair Use and it's perfectly legal for the creator to profit off those. I'm discussing things like Snowdrop and Button Mash.

 

You sum up, pretty much how I feel. There isn't much of a battle to be won with the issues of Buttomash and Snowdrop, but I would feel upset if Hasbro is trying to profit off of Fanmade review videos through this contentID thing without working out some sort of deal with the creator's first.

 

However, I'm thinking this has less to do with Hasbro and more to do with Youtube's automatically controlled content-ID system.

[Sir Hugsalot 8,625]

As much as some people might see it as unfair and bad - Hasbro has right to do this. MLP is their property and there would be no fanmade content like Snowdrop if Hasbro haven't released the show in first place. In the end they are the ones who we should thank for all of this, even for this fandom. If not show they made this forum would've never existed and most of us would never get to know each other.

I agree that they are a bit too harsh, because it still is someone's hard work that is responsible for those fanmade videos exist but at the same time it's not as bad as in music industry. Hasbro goes for videos that actually include something they were and are part off. In music industry it's more and more often to flag videos that don't even have copyrighted material. So please, don't compare them, it's actually quite offensive towards Hasbro. 

[Solid 1,326]

Politics, Survival, Business, Money,

[Kel_Grym 1,917]

Politics, Survival, Business, Money,

 

Huzzah for simplification!

 

How exactly do politics come into play with all these legal copyright issues? Are there some lobbyists affecting Hasbro we should know about?

 

Survival, business and money can all tie in together, but can you argue that Hasbro is actually making a mistake in its business practice? Or an argument that it's perfectly justified?

 

I mean...we kinda already get why this stuff is the way it is, but do you have more input than that?

[Graveyard Duck 150]

I think, instead of considering Hasbro to be one single entity, this is a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. Or, to be exact, Hasbro's Youtube presence being tight-assed templars without the higher-ups in the company being aware of it.

[nami438 90]

I think, instead of considering Hasbro to be one single entity, this is a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. Or, to be exact, Hasbro's Youtube presence being tight-assed templars without the higher-ups in the company being aware of it.

Too often this is how ContentID works. It just flags the slightest bit of material in a video and sends all the money to the owner of the bit, even if the owner doesn't want this to happen. To use ContentID, they have choose to either hit honest people like this, or let them go while letting people trying to monetize entire songs they didn't make as well.

 

I maintain that someone in Hasbro is responsible for this, not ContentID alone. ContentID needs a source video to match Youtube uploads to. Assuming that the video creators have no agreement with Hasbro prior, how could Hasbro possibly have footage of a fan animation before it hits Youtube? Where can this source video come from? Either someone is manually flagging these videos, or someone is downloading them and reuploading them as source video for ContentID to catch. I just can't imagine any other way.

 

Or, ContentID is now smart enough to recognize fan made ponies?

 

As much as some people might see it as unfair and bad - Hasbro has right to do this. MLP is their property and there would be no fanmade content like Snowdrop if Hasbro haven't released the show in first place. In the end they are the ones who we should thank for all of this, even for this fandom. If not show they made this forum would've never existed and most of us would never get to know each other.

I agree that they are a bit too harsh, because it still is someone's hard work that is responsible for those fanmade videos exist but at the same time it's not as bad as in music industry. Hasbro goes for videos that actually include something they were and are part off. In music industry it's more and more often to flag videos that don't even have copyrighted material. So please, don't compare them, it's actually quite offensive towards Hasbro. 

Very true that were it not for Hasbro, none of the videos in question would exist at all. I still have a problem with Hasbro getting all of the money from them though, and I'm not sure that Hasbro being ultimately responsible for the videos' existence, necessarily grants them the right to get all of the money, under American law at least.

 

But who am I kidding, we're dealing with Google's Law here, and for once I think I may somewhat agree with it. For animations like Snowdrop, at least. The way Hasbro monetizes reviews that don't have significant copyrighted content is still a no-no for me, it's immoral, and afaik it's not quite legal either.

Edited May 22, 2014 by nami438

[Solid 1,326]

Huzzah for simplification!

 

How exactly do politics come into play with all these legal copyright issues? Are there some lobbyists affecting Hasbro we should know about?

 

Survival, business and money can all tie in together, but can you argue that Hasbro is actually making a mistake in its business practice? Or an argument that it's perfectly justified?

 

I mean...we kinda already get why this stuff is the way it is, but do you have more input than that?

 

Huzzah for simplification!

 

How exactly do politics come into play with all these legal copyright issues? Are there some lobbyists affecting Hasbro we should know about?

 

Survival, business and money can all tie in together, but can you argue that Hasbro is actually making a mistake in its business practice? Or an argument that it's perfectly justified?

 

I mean...we kinda already get why this stuff is the way it is, but do you have more input than that?

 

Politics: If you want to have some decent reputation and popularity, chances are you would have to involve in it. I don't think they need to claim those vids to get the reputation, b/c those fan vids basically advertises for them already, kind of a pointless act unless they need those few thousand bucks really badly, which I highly doubt.

 

Survival/Business/Money: I'm not really against cash hoarders, but to be honest, Hasbro got plenty of money. Unless they are trying to hoard all the cash they could get and not spend them and just sort of "have them" I don't think they really need to take this action. Besides, even if they don't claim those vids, it still promotes their products anyway. For a few thousand bucks, this is kind of pointless, or, no offense, greedy.

 

 

I'm not really into business and money-hoarding, but I know that though it's nice to have some money in reserve for emergency, if they hoard millions of dollars to the point of madness, and not spend them, those "millions of $$$" is in reality nothing more than a mountain of paper.

 

However, what Hasbro is doing is seemingly legal (I'm not an expert in law) so as far as I know we can't really do anything about this.

[LordDiscord 289]

So I'm on Youtube and looking at completely fanmade pony animations, and I see that many videos have the "More from: HasbroStudiosShorts" next to the description in the About section.

 

From what I know, this means that Hasbro is using ContentID on these videos. A favorite pony reviewer of mine says that he got hit with a Content Match from Hasbro over his review of Snowdrop. For those who don't know, Snowdrop is a completely fanmade animation, with not a second of music or animation from the show or anything related whatsoever, and his review video that got hit did not have any violating content either. I see this on other 100% original videos too, like Twilight the Unicorn and Digibro's review of Snowdrop.

 

Click below to see two videos that have the "More from: HasbroStudiosShorts" next to their descriptions. You have to go to the video's original page to see it.

 

(Disclaimer, Digibro does use content from Kyoto Animation without permission here, but to my knowledge it's Hasbro getting at least some of the money)

 

 

What this means is that Hasbro is claiming to own content that they do not and have never owned. To add insult to injury, if Hasbro is doing like many music companies do with ContentID, Hasbro is making thousands of dollars off of these animations that again, they do not own, while the actual video owners and creators get nothing.

 

So now, I'm wondering, why on Earth is Hasbro claiming videos that they don't own? And how are they using ContentID to auto-match content that they did not know even existed until it hit Youtube? I am led to believe that they are manually tag these videos as they see them get popular, or they have agreements with the videomakers beforehand (which would be a relief).

 

I would chalk this up as being like the Button Mash drama, but in that case, they didn't try to make money off of his work, they asked him to take it down because every character in the cartoons bar one violated their copyrights (and possibly trademarks). Is it legal to monetize a video and keep the entirety of the profits without consent, just because of one or two characters? I would think Hasbro would have to take the video maker to court and sue for damages first. A video violating one's copyright does not mean that they own the entire video.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Hasbro may not own the oc pony or the music, but they do own Celestia and Luna ( who both appeared in that animation) as well as the Canterlot castle and Ponyville. Hasbro has every right to claim ownership, if said product is using their content. Also them claiming it as theirs and making money off of it is far better then down right removing it.

[Adente 1,000]

What this means is that Hasbro is claiming to own content that they do not and have never owned. 

 

So now, I'm wondering, why on Earth is Hasbro claiming videos that they don't own? 

 

I fundamentally disagree with your argument because you said those two statements. Hasbro may not have made the specific fanmade animations they are claiming the rights to, but they sure as heck own the My Little Pony trademark and all characters and concepts associated with such an intellectual property. It is more than within their legal right to remove animations such as these.

 

Another thing, if you've noticed, Hasbro targets a specific breed of animation: show quality and show faithful. That is to say, if an animation looks like the show and has the same tone as the show, to the point where someone couldn't tell the difference between a Hasbro episode and a fan video, then Hasbro goes after it, since it challenges their ownership of their intellectual property. Animations that aren't show accurate animationwise (The MOV series comes to mind) or completely different in tone and totally different (Smile HD) are safe.  Hasbro is targeting a very narrow, albeit popular, breed of videos, and its perfectly legal for them to. They own the show, not those fan animators. 

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,090]

There are fangames that literally look just like their source material. Take Pokemon fangames, for example. And those aren't taken down or destroyed by anyone.

 

People can argue that they're within their legal right to take down these videos, but I will continue to argue against Hasbro because I disagree with their actions and I do not believe it hurts them at all, nor does it cost them anything when it comes to their profits, to have these fan animations floating around.

[Freewave 1,145]

Yes, there are a lot of Reviewers going and questioning youtube's new content ID system, saying that it is putting people who's lively hood is in youtube at risk. People like Angry Joe, Alex Side, exc. But I think, when concerning ponies, Hasbro is somewhere in the equation.

 

 

 

 

Actually, The Adventures of Button Mash, and Snowdrop are both parodies. So they should fall under the same legal range.

Where is the IP for Snowdrop? Where is the IP for Button? Hasbro doesn't own them, because the fans made them. (Button might be a question though, cause he was on the show.)

 

Again Button Mash was in MLP (the Love Poison episode) and Snowdrop video featured cannon characters. They also weren't parodies at all. Reviewers using clips and footage of the show are using Hasbro content. Again Hasbro is doing what's within their rights. THEY own the characters and can pursue who they want, pull videos or add ads to videos if they want.

 

 

again, Hasbro is the douche bag of the toy world, claiming everything that they see as theirs because they think they can. You know, people should really be boycotting something for the clear thievery of Hasbro. Or do something.

 

Sounds like you're knee jerking and not understanding how this whole copyright/ trademark/ fandom relationship thing works. I get really tired of people complaining when Hasbro is extremely lenient compared to many other companies. Venting frustrations with Hasbro is a lot more toxic to the community then what Hasbro actually does to gather those complaints. Let's just enjoy the show and the fandom without making ourselves miserable in a cloud of hysteria, shall we?

 

[Away 2,077]

Yeah, I think it's bullshit that they're doing this, but oh well. :/

 

To be fair, if you're going to put a work of art out into the public (in this case a TV show), then it's no longer truly yours. Other people have the right to make fan works out of it as long as they give credit to the original owner.

[nami438 90]

Yeah, I think it's bullshit that they're doing this, but oh well. :/

 

To be fair, if you're going to put a work of art out into the public (in this case a TV show), then it's no longer truly yours. Other people have the right to make fan works out of it as long as they give credit to the original owner.

Morally, perhaps, but not legally. Button Mash and Snowdrop both extensively used settings, stories, designs, etc. that belong to Hasbro, without permission to do so.

[Away 2,077]

Morally, perhaps, but not legally. Button Mash and Snowdrop both extensively used settings, stories, designs, etc. that belong to Hasbro, without permission to do so.

Yeah, that's what I meant ^^

 

Still though. That's the risk that everyone takes when they put their art out there.

[Lightning Bliss 1,674]

Well the thing is I noticed with Hasbro that allows them to get away with this 'claim' bs, is that people, even though they used their own animations, music and voice acting...they are still using characters from the show that are copyrighted by Hasbro. Even if its just background ponies that aren't the bases of the show, they are still owned by Hasbro because it was created by them.

 

Ponies like Celestia, Luna, Dr. Hooves, Derpy, etc, etc, all are still owned by Hasbro, whether they are background or not.

 

So in order to avoid this 'claim' from them, I would have to avoid using any of their characters entirely. No Octavia, no Lyra, or Bon Bon, or BlueBlood etc. It would have to be my own OCs.

 

But if Hasbro is gonna go off and claim characters that I personally created like from my profile trailer...then they are crossing the line. But so far they only thing I've been flagged on my videos are for a couple of my shows talking about episodes, when I go over a minute of showing actual footage from the episodes themselves...

Edited May 22, 2014 by Lightning Bliss

[Geek0zoid 1,467]

This IS unfair to a certain extent, but you've gotta remember that MLP belongs to Hasbro. No one can simply get away with making money off of their IP.

[DonShine 6]

Again Button Mash was in MLP (the Love Poison episode) and Snowdrop video featured cannon characters. They also weren't parodies at all. Reviewers using clips and footage of the show are using Hasbro content. Again Hasbro is doing what's within their rights. THEY own the characters and can pursue who they want, pull videos or add ads to videos if they want.

 

 

 

Sounds like you're knee jerking and not understanding how this whole copyright/ trademark/ fandom relationship thing works. I get really tired of people complaining when Hasbro is extremely lenient compared to many other companies. Venting frustrations with Hasbro is a lot more toxic to the community then what Hasbro actually does to gather those complaints. Let's just enjoy the show and the fandom without making ourselves miserable in a cloud of hysteria, shall we?

 

  Your new to the conversation aren't you? Issue was already resolved, and my opinion of Hasbro is my own, so step off.

[Venomous 18,817]

I know that Hasbro has the right to do what they're doing to these videos, but I still find it unnecessary.

[Armin 168]

My Little Pony has always belonged to Hasbro. In most cases they are using copyrighted characters or clips. Even making an OC could be considered a copyright infringement. Hasbro has every right to claim both of the videos in the O.P.

Also, Snowdrop uses Celestia and Luna, two copyrighted characters.

[Freewave 1,145]

  Your new to the conversation aren't you? Issue was already resolved, and my opinion of Hasbro is my own, so step off.

 

Well since you're acknowledging that you were wrong about the legalities at the time that's cool as ice.   No need to threaten or further escalate son.     Move on we shall.,

[Khaoios 1,970]

Don't really care. It is Hasbro's IP, they have the rights to it and they have the right to protect their copyright. If people are trying to make money while using things that belong to Hasbro in their videos, that's their fault.

 

Hasbro has to protect its copyrights. That's how it works. Don't wanna get content ID claimed? Don't use ads. Simple.

 

You know, it blows my mind that these idiots (not Hasbro, but youtubers who use ads to make money off the video).  Exact reason as you said why they are getting Content ID Claim.   Now, I for one, support Hasbro on this and they should take down videos.

[Simon 4,554]

Hasbro still has a certain amount of intellectual property in any pony fan animation, just because they're going to be lifting styles of characters from the show.  Sure, in an ideal world where fan animators had unlimited finances they could drag it out into a long court battle to determine whether fan animations fit under parody or fair use and are permissible, but that's never going to happen because you're never going to have a fan animator who doesn't make money off a project willing to dump tens of thousands of dollars into that court battle to finally give the world a clear answer.  So what we're left with is fan animators pretty much being at the will of Hasbro due to the fact that nobody, Hasbro included, really knows whether or not it's legal to make a fan animation without permission because it's untested legal waters.

 

That being said, if Hasbro can make money off of other people's videos, it makes them more likely to leave those people around.  It's a two way don't bite the hand that feeds you.  Hasbro is making money off the fan animators, so they don't want to piss off the animators and ruin a good thing.  The animators aren't getting their work taken down, and since the only impact is a small advertisement for videos for the show they love, they're not really going to complain.

 

In other words...

 

Hasbro advertising on fan vids means fan vids don't get taken down, fan vids not being taken down means more fan vids can be made, more fan vids being made means more stuff for us bronies to watch, more stuff for us to watch means happy bronies, happy bronies with tons of fan videos means we stay bronies and make hasbro even more money, bronies staying bronyful makes MLP Hasbro's most profitable franchise, it being Hasbro's most profitable franchise means they make more ponies, which means happier bronies, which means even more ponies, which means the magic of friendship will be spread throughout the world, and that obviously leads to world peace and nuclear disarmament.  So don't complain about fan videos having advertisements from Hasbro or you'll cause nuclear war.