Does anyone think Twilight Sparkle is a Mary Sue?

[Vlazamal 338]

She kind of is, but not too much. She is still a very enjoyable character, nevertheless. She has enough flaws to be human (funny thing to say) and relatable, almost in a Superman kind of way, but not to his extent even. She isn't PERFECT, but just a really good and is chosen person. Her flaws make that aspect bearable.

 

Look at Chloe from Fairly OddParents and compare her to Twilight Sparkle.

[SBaby 660]

Just because someone is successful or powerful doesn't make them a sue.

 

So wait.  You were just saying that her being powerful and successful is what makes her a Mary Sue, and now you're saying that just because someone is those things doesn't make them a Mary Sue in reference to other characters.  Well, which is it?  You can't have it both ways if you want people to consider your point valid.

 

You can't change the parameters of your own argument to make it more convenient for you.

Edited August 18, 2016 by SBaby

[user1342342 143]

 

 

So wait.  You were just saying that her being powerful and successful is what makes her a Mary Sue

 

No, I said the reasons (or lack thereof) behind her being so powerful and successful are what make her a mary sue.

[SBaby 660]

No, I said the reasons (or lack thereof) behind her being so powerful and successful are what make her a mary sue.

 

And we have no reason for Celestia and Luna being really powerful beyond age (Granny Smith is hundreds of years old too BTW, and she's pretty average).  Yet you don't call them Sues, and conveniently change the parameters of your argument to agree with your point.

 

That's a problem when you're trying to make a point.

 

 

As for Twilight, we have a reason for her power.  As a kid, she couldn't control her power, and for years she trained in order to not only control it, but also to suppress it.  And as we've seen with other characters, her kind of power isn't nearly as unique as we once thought it was.

Edited August 18, 2016 by SBaby

[user1342342 143]

And we have no reason for Celestia and Luna being really powerful beyond age (Granny Smith is hundreds of years old too BTW, and she's pretty average).  Yet you don't call them Sues, and conveniently change the parameters of your argument to agree with your point.

 

That's why it isn't valid.

 

I haven't changed anything, and I've already covered this. Granny Smith isn't an immortal goddess who's had thousands of years to practice magic and run the kingdom, she can't even use magic so great example. Twilight was nearly that powerful from the get go, when she was a filly. If that isn't op, I don't know what is. 

[Cleverclover 1,526]

Who the hell keeps bumping this thread? 

 

Honestly, if you think Twilight is a Mary Sue in the show, you really ought to take a good look at the comics. If any argument whatsoever can be made in favor of her being a Mary Sue, it's definitely within the comics. 

 

The comics treat Twilight as though she is absolutely limitless, as though there is virtually nothing that could qualify as "impossible" for her. They have given her insanely overpowered spells, including the ability to take away another unicorn's magic similar to Aang from Avatar: The Last Airbender. They have also given her other abilities related to her intelligence.

 

 

This current arc (in which she and the rest of the mane six turn evil) shows that she possesses the smarts and know-how to create a device that is capable of draining the brainpower of other ponies.

 

 

The comic writers clearly do hold the perception that she is a Mary Sue. Either that, or the comic Twilight is simply intended to be a parody of her actual self. 

 

Bottom line, there does seem to be a reason for the perception that Twilight is a Mary Sue. She's still annoyingly overpowered and possesses more abilities than any of her friends (outside of Starlight). 

[cmarston1 5,959]

At this point I am tired of people using the term as if it actually means anything.

[SBaby 660]

At this point I am tired of people using the term as if it actually means anything.

 

Same here.  Most people accusing her of being one don't even know what the term really means.  They claim to know, but it's obvious they don't know.

 

 

 

Who the hell keeps bumping this thread?

 

A better question is, why does it keep getting bumped when all the people who bump it are doing is repeating themselves?

Edited August 18, 2016 by SBaby

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,331]

No Twilight is not a Mary Sue. A lot of the fandom seem to really screw up the definition of a Mary Sue. A character being powerful is not a Mary Sue. By this logic I guess all superheros are Mary Sues. Heck, the time she did get extra powers in Twilight's Kingdom, she was't even able to overpower Tirek with it. Pretty much shooting that line of thinking for a Mary Sue in the foot.

 

Twilight has shown flaws in many episodes, especially her own episodes. She freaks out over little things (Lesson Zero, It's About Time), she has shown to have trust issues (No Second Prances, A Canterlot Wedding), and she can be arrogant at points (Feeling Pinkie Keen).

 

Honestly, Mary Sue is such an overused and misused critique, that I can't really take it seriously anymore.

[cider float 2,538]

Hmmmm not sure if she really is though. I mean I remember more of her failures than her successes. She could not convince her friends that Cadance was Chrysalis and even Twilight was unsure of it herself when they rejected her, Twilight also couldn't keep her friends from going gray and had to realize something and had times of loss, so she doesn't seem that much of a Mary Sue to me. A Mary Sue would be a character that never had loss or failures and would have been winning from the getgo, at most not be used as a main character who struggles but as a Deus Ex Machina character.

[Sombra369 3]

I feel Twi has to have Mary Sue Tendencies if Rainbow Dash(and Pinkie Pie to an extent) is allowed to have a bigger impact in episodes and more memorable scenes.

Edited September 20, 2016 by sonicsucks12

[Thrond 3,263]

Um... no. She's very magically skilled and powerful, but she faces plenty of challenges and ostensibly isn't perfect. Her arsenal of spells isn't even remotely grounds for declaring a character perfect in my book, let alone a "Mary Sue," especially when, like Twilight, they often make mistakes.

 

I do think that, around season 4, the show made her a bastion of reason way too often, like in "Rainbow Falls" when she pressured Rainbow to do the right thing. Around that point, I do feel she showed less flaws and was much less interesting. Right now? I don't agree.

[Twilight Frost 271]

A mary sue would mean that she is the best and can never fail or be upstaged at anything. Her personality is flawed just like everypony else and her magic is not the strongest in the world. 

 

If she was a mary sue she would be far more powerful than Starlight from the very first episode and would never had needed all the alicorn magic to be equals with Tirek. That would make her a Mary Sue. 

[They call me Loyalty 1,948]

Not necessarily, yet her alicorn transformation is often associated with stereotypic models which might counteract personality development. Freedom, in other words.

Reason why I find characters such as Celestia so uninteresting. So unnatural.

The model becomes a hindrance towards expression. Same as with labels.
 

[Vaddix 98]

100% yes she is a mary sue.

[Luigi 7,869]

Mary Sue: An idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities.

I wouldn't go that far if she couldn't protect herself from the Deus Ex Machina Queen Chrysalis pulled at the end of Season 6.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Any talent character with higher positions is considered a mary sue, i guess Starlight's equalization process starting make sense now, you have to be the same with everyone, dont be exceptional is a key, guys.

Twilight is definitely overpowered in term of magics, but in term of character she is the most flawed character in mane 6 group, her character flaws are what make people like her, which kinda decrease over seasons.

Twilight in Canterlot Wedding, No Second Prance, What About Discord and Amending Fences are Twilight i want to see the most. Her character flaws are so interesting that i want to see her suffering by Discord

*sarcasm turn on*

If Twilight is a Mary Sue then Chrysalis is a Mary Sue Queen because she can capture 4 Mary Sue characters (Twilight, Celestia, Cadence, Flurry Heart) OFFSCREEN then say fuck you to Starlight the mary sue unicorn and flying away without being captured by all her prisoners including Discord the male Mary Sue, yup, you get sued, bro. Lolololololololololololol

*sarcasam turn off*

 

Seriously guys...

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Lambdadelta

[Thrond 3,263]

On 2017-03-30 at 8:57 PM, Lambdadelta said:

Twilight in Canterlot Wedding, No Second Prance, What About Discord and Amending Fences are Twilight i want to see the most.

Twilight had flaws in "Amending Fences?" 

 

Honestly, that episode is exactly what I mean when I say that Twilight's flaws are vanishing. In that one, she is constantly invading Moondancer's privacy, but the sole thing the episode acknowledges her doing wrong is something she did 5 seasons ago. And even those invasions of privacy are justified by getting Moondancer to open up at the end. She does nothing wrong in that episode, and that's exactly the problem with her lately. 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

7 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Twilight had flaws in "Amending Fences?" 

Yes, she has flaws, even Pinkie had to question her "Princess of Friendship" status, she is too flaws to be called Princess of Friendship.

 

7 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

 And even those invasions of privacy are justified by getting Moondancer to open up at the end.

What do you want? I dont think character flaws has to make character look like a pathetic loser and mlp DO justified character mishap a lot in the entire show, it not even the first one, (in Canterlot Wedding, Twilight was right all along for example, she is even more obnoxious in that episode), so i have no problem with that, and Twilight's heart put in the right place in Amending Fences. Spike has present a lot of his character flaws in all his episodes but why a lot of people hate his episodes, because it make him like a pathetic loser. 

 

7 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Twilight's flaws are vanishing.

Well, i know that, Twilight is getting more like Celestia after S3, that what i love No Second Prances or What About Discord and people called Twilight out of character in those episodes so... did i do something wrong?  

7 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

She does nothing wrong in that episode, and that's exactly the problem with her lately.

Not this episode, this episode has done a good job to empathize character's strength and actually point out her character flaws in the past and make the character amend for it. In the beginning of the episode, her desire to make amend means her heart is in the in right place, whether she fail or not cant change that. Plz, dont compare this great episode to Twilight Time or anything similar...

 

Random thoughts: Perfect Twilight and Saint Sunset... Sometime i want put a chip to their brain to reset their character... Especially Sunset Shimmer.

 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

wings✓ horn ✓mary sue confirmed ✓

[Thrond 3,263]

On 2017-04-01 at 8:56 AM, Lambdadelta said:

What do you want? I dont think character flaws has to make character look like a pathetic loser and mlp DO justified character mishap a lot in the entire show, it not even the first one, (in Canterlot Wedding, Twilight was right all along for example, she is even more obnoxious in that episode), so i have no problem with that, and Twilight's heart put in the right place in Amending Fences. Spike has present a lot of his character flaws in all his episodes but why a lot of people hate his episodes, because it make him like a pathetic loser. 

I don't disagree with you about "A Canterlot Wedding," but I rather like most Spike episodes, and I've never been able to grok with Twilight's actions in "Amending Fences" being okay. Hear heart being in the right place doesn't really change that Moondancer wanted to be left alone. Basically, I want Twilight to do something wrong in a way specific to her. We haven't gotten that in way too long. 

 

On 2017-04-01 at 8:56 AM, Lambdadelta said:

Well, i know that, Twilight is getting more like Celestia after S3, that what i love No Second Prances or What About Discord and people called Twilight out of character in those episodes so... did i do something wrong?  

 

I feel like those two episodes are just not well-written. Twilight is unsympathetic in the former and kinda unhinged in the latter, but neither leads to an interesting point or much psychological complexity, and I don't find either episode funny. 

 

On 2017-04-01 at 8:56 AM, Lambdadelta said:

Not this episode, this episode has done a good job to empathize character's strength and actually point out her character flaws in the past and make the character amend for it. In the beginning of the episode, her desire to make amend means her heart is in the in right place, whether she fail or not cant change that. Plz, dont compare this great episode to Twilight Time or anything similar...

 

I find something particularly boring about Twilight needing to set right something she screwed up several seasons ago. It's way better than her in "Rainbow Falls" or "PPOV," but she learns next to nothing from the experience that she didn't already know. 

 

On 2017-04-01 at 8:56 AM, Lambdadelta said:

Random thoughts: Perfect Twilight and Saint Sunset... Sometime i want put a chip to their brain to reset their character... Especially Sunset Shimmer.

Sunset Shimmer is so boringly perfect in the latest film that she might very well be an alicorn if she ever goes back to Equestria. 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

9 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I feel like those two episodes are just not well-written. Twilight is unsympathetic in the former and kinda unhinged in the latter, but neither leads to an interesting point or much psychological complexity, and I don't find either episode funny. 

I think i can agree with you one thing about this case, these episode have FLAWS, but i still like them, i rewatched No Second Prances a dozen times to clarify my thoughts and still the same answer  ,strangely, it not the same case with A Fault in Our Cutie Marks or The Times They are a Changeling, even they dont have many "wrong" but i think they arent great as people claimed them to be... I think i can find something attractive in flawed episodes? Anyway, i dont see No Second Prances and What About Discord as "guilty pleasure" episodes, i think they ARE ACTUALLY good episodes, no doubt 

No Second Prances is the 1st episode of s6 actually made me laugh 

9 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

she learns next to nothing from the experience that she didn't already know. 

 Only thing came to my head is Twilight need to realize she is an awful teacher.  

 

It's hard to get a great Twilight episode nowaday...

Edited April 3, 2017 by Lambdadelta

[LeafFerret 3,382]

How did we go from Twilight finding a Daring Do book for Rainbow to her not being capable of letting other ponies making their own decisions and if it's correct being overconfident in things like the babysitting episode. How times change.

[mithandir91 9]

Let me share my topics about the subjet. 

As a Overall charcter, TS is a fine but clichê character, very simple on it's base, and i might say a product of their time. 

They use simple and yet usefull tools, as her panic strikes and overall nerdicity to make her relatable to a wide demografic of nerds and stressed/panic youths. 

I can't say that she is a Marysue thoug