Is there no middleground anymore?

[Mesme Rize 15,685]

i sometimes try to wrap my brain around some peoples opinions in this fandom, because some of them make no sense to me. But which really drive me wild, are the ones that either say "this is bad and there is nothing good about it" or "This is good and everything about it is perfect." I am always of the opinion that there is nothing perfect in this world. Not on TV, not in Sports, not in our day to day lives. But i am also of the opinion that not everything is bad.

 

So why do some people in this fandom, only see the bad or only see the good in this show? I sometimes have the feeling, that the word average is not used enough. Now, i don't want to say this show is average, because i love this show and i never miss an episode. But i think that there are bad episodes, that have good elements and there are good episodes, with bad elements. Same goes for all the characters of this show.

 

What do you think?

[Dark Qiviut 22,444]

No, there's definitely a middleground in this show. Plenty of episodes are somewhere in the middle.

1. Look Before You Sleep (very mediocre story with poor characterization, but fine pacing, structure, and moral)
2. Sweet & Elite (you can see the reasoning why Rarity did such terrible things to her friends and Canterlot, but it was marred by a horrid ending, evening it out)
3. Leap of Faith (the whole episode is very down the middle; he got the structure and plot, but made nothing about it unique; it's perhaps the most average episode of the show)

And characters are the same. One of the more recent is Treehugger: Although her dialogue and activity with Discord create comedy, when judging her alone, she's stereotypical and plain. Currently, she doesn't have that oomph that makes her fully-fledged, devolving her into a plot device.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[Sky Flare 66]

I have only seen the first two seasons (currently re-watching season 1, haven't watched season 2 since 2012) but I love all the episodes I have seen. Some more than others, and I'm sure each has its strengths and weaknesses, but I find that the more you try to reduce something down to simple concepts and evaluate it, the less enjoyable it will be.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Sky Flare

[Jeric 46,854]

I think at some point average started to become associated with thoughts of failure more than success. Same with meh and mediocre. None of them mean something is bad, or wholly bad.

 

And yes there are a handful of average episodes. Just as there are brilliant and poorly done ones.

[Sky Flare 66]

Not to mention that even the 'average' FiM episodes outshine 99% of other media produced today.

[guest243535531ty43 219]

There are definitely some average episodes, but remember that people have different interests and tastes. To look at some more recent episodes, while some loved "Make New Friends but Keep Discord", I found the episode enjoyable enough but nothing too great. While others may have seen "Castle Sweet Castle" as being bland and insipid (especially coming right after the epic premiere), it's one of my favorite episodes in the show and I thought the subtle, subdued emotion in the episode was very poignant and fitting. I hated "Spike at Your Service" for several reasons but I have a friend who made some reasonable points as to why he considers it one of his favorite episodes.

 

Everyone reacts to different things differently. Those who react more viscerally or strongly to an episode usually will voice their opinions more than those who found an episode to be average in quality or nothing too special, which is why you probably haven't seen that many opinions of that middleground type. I've personally found every episode engaging to some extent--most being enjoyable--but I won't really comment on why I liked or disliked an episode if the episode fell into the "middle" category. I wouldn't have much of a connection to that particular episode and so there wouldn't be much to say other than aspects I liked or disliked. But it's still important for us to recognize that not everything an episode (or almost anything really) offers is completely good or bad.

Edited June 2, 2015 by estoc

[Shanks 10,816]

Part of it is expectations if you expect something to be the greatest ever and it is not but even if it is still good it may taint your perception of it. It can also work the other way too, many of us came into MLP with low expectations and a lot of skepticism, I sure did, which is why some of us here are willing to give certain things a bit more of a pass than we may otherwise.

 

Passes which are often undeserved and based on rather shaky justifications like "it is a kids show" or worse "it is a little girls show" as if lower standards are and should be the default of media deemed acceptable for children. The irony behind this of course is that the quality of adult oriented entertainment is falling harder and faster yet nobody would take that same argument seriously if it were used to make excuses for those shows.

 

A lot of fans have high expectations of MLP because those expectations have been met in the past and it is not unreasonable to expect MLP to maintain a relatively decent albeit imperfect quality to it. There are bad episodes that had potential and could have actually have been good or even great episodes if written differently and mediocre episodes that had promise but didn't quite make the mark for whatever reason and good episodes that have  the occasional flaw or two.

 

Apple Family Reunion is my favorite episode of the entire series and yet it has a huge plot hole in it. The plot hole is the implication that it is the first Apple Family Reunion in years yet when we first see Applejack in the series premier we can clearly see that there is an Apply Family Reunion going on. We have zero explanation whatsoever for this rather glaring inconsistency aside from the possibility that this may not be the first in years but simply the largest one they had in years.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Darth Bane

[Ninja(Pinkie)Midget 180]

I pretty much agree with you.  There are good and not so good episodes, but that happens with any show. Part of the fun of watching MLP is finding those episodes that get added to my list of favorites.  last season it was Pinkie Apple Pie(among others).  There hasn't been one of those episodes this season yet for me, but I know there will be some.

[colt .45 259]

 

So why do some people in this fandom, only see the bad or only see the good in this show? I sometimes have the feeling, that the word average is not used enough. Now, i don't want to say this show is average, because i love this show and i never miss an episode. But i think that there are bad episodes, that have good elements and there are good episodes, with bad elements. Same goes for all the characters of this show.

 

What do you think?

I think that a lot of the extremes you see people posting are just due to the nature of an internet forum. My guess is that the average viewer, in real life, has more middle of the road opinions than what they post. As for why, total dedication to either loving or hateing, is easier to express anonymously. I also think that some people overly express extreme opinions in order to give their persona more dynamic. For instance, if I were to post " meh, it was ok. It had some good points and some bad points", you wouldn't really know what I'm about. However if I posted something like "OMS! That was the best ever! I love it for being so perfect" or "that sucks! The writer should be shot" then you would have a better idea where I'm coming from.

I don't think there's anything wrong with middle of the road or average opinions. Infact I think most people, if you talked to in person, probably would have more moderate opinions than what they post online.

[Shanks 10,816]

I think that a lot of the extremes you see people posting are just due to the nature of an internet forum. My guess is that the average viewer, in real life, has more middle of the road opinions than what they post.

Maybe that can be the case with some people but it can also in many cases be tone as well which can make their opinions sound more extreme. There is a big difference between saying "I don't like this episode" and "this episode sucks" or "I really hate this stupid episode". There are also some fandom controversies though that can push buttons of certain otherwise more moderate people, twilicorn is a very good example of this especially among Twilight fans. I hated twilicorn because the way it was pulled off out of nowhere in the worst episode of the entire series was an insult to a great character, but I still completely detest the season 3 finale have made enough peace with the concept to be neutral. I am still not sold yet recognize that my worst fears or her being irredeemably Mary Sued haven't come to pass yet and there is a good chance they won't.

[Lockheed 45]

I also think that it comes down to the fact that fans are very invested in their fandoms and it is easy to leap to one of the extremes. I think fans often have high personal expectations to e.g. a show or a singer and if the high expectations isn't met, it is easy to criticize. On the other side I think that many fans can get blinded by their love, and nothing can destroy that. 

[Lexamena 391]

I think the writers have to walk a fine line. It's got to be difficult coming up with original, clever, and entertaining material when a huge fandom exists where people are coming up with their own episode ideas, pony design and names, etc and potentially using up all the good concepts. The developers have got to be wary of accidentally stealing an idea from some fan site. The same with music in today's world it's all been done, said, heard, thought of, copyrighted. 

[Shanks 10,816]

I think the writers have to walk a fine line. It's got to be difficult coming up with original, clever, and entertaining material when a huge fandom exists where people are coming up with their own episode ideas, pony design and names, etc and potentially using up all the good concepts. The developers have got to be wary of accidentally stealing an idea from some fan site. The same with music in today's world it's all been done, said, heard, thought of, copyrighted. 

That is why they don't allow the show writing staff to read fanfics, because of the potential legal complications that could arise if they just so happen to create a story based on one. With that in place they have plausible deniability in the likely event that they come up with an episode idea similar to an already posted fanfic. There are so many fics out there that it is impossible for them to inadvertently come up with something similar at some point.

[EquestriaGuy 1,074]

I think one way or another, some people get completely carried away with the show or themselves. You can generally tell when someone is trying a bit too hard to see everything as awful or everything as wonderful. Herd minds are the death of discussion. 

[The Awesome One 1,315]

You people expect too much from a kid's show. There will be stereotypical characters and the plot of most of the episodes we have seen on the show have been seen in other cartoons as well. We have had 99 episodes so far and I don't expect bronies to like every single one of them but that is all personal preference. No need to criticize the show so much because it would be better if you just watched the show and enjoy it rather than worry about certain plotholes or cliches because this isn't Game of Thrones. It is a show about pastel ponies who discover the magic of friendship for god's sake.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

You people expect too much from a kid's show. There will be stereotypical characters and the plot of most of the episodes we have seen on the show have been seen in other cartoons as well. We have had 99 episodes so far and I don't expect bronies to like every single one of them but that is all personal preference. No need to criticize the show so much because it would be better if you just watched the show and enjoy it rather than worry about certain plotholes or cliches because this isn't Game of Thrones. It is a show about pastel ponies who discover the magic of friendship for god's sake.

Some viewers have high standard when enjoy any tv productions. I call them veteran viewers (enjoy finding hidden depths, analyzing stuff, bashing etc ). As an average viewer, I follow MST3K Mantra advices, stop over-analyzing everything and I really enjoy about 90% of episodes of FIM (including 100th episodes cuz I love fan pandering episodes ). The less expections you have, the more episodes you can enjoy... maybe I'm easy to be satisfied

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,302]

Tactless and excessive hyperbole, needlessly analytical and hypercritical "fans," roused defense, inevitable polarization.

 

1. I "hate" [insert pony or episode here]. >>> What's the point in hating [insert pony or episode here]? >>> My "hate" burns as hot as a thousand suns.  It is of greater value to me than all else; I shall not abandon it. >>> I "hate" you. >>> Points from a member of staff. >w<

2. [insert episode] did not live up to my ridiculously lofty expectations of objective perfection (which is totally a thing).  There were those three seconds in [insert episode] when [insert pony] said [insert dialogue] to [insert pony]; those three seconds ruined the entire show for me.  Thanks for [watching or reading] my thousandth pony-related [review video or blog].  Like and subscribe.

 

The "middle ground" could be perceived as a [noncommittal] position of weakness.

[cider float 2,538]

Your middleground could be different from other people's middleground.

 

Know what I'm saying?

[SolyWack 482]

Ive noticed the word average is a strange thing. Average means halfway, good and bad, so like 5/10, but thats failure in most things today. If you only managed to get 50% on a test, or got 2 1/2 stars on a video game review, you failed.

 

Average now is like 7.5/10, but realistically that should be above average, right? So it seems to me people need to denote something as good or bad because if its not good, its average, and thats somehow a bad thing.

 

Theres no way to reach middle ground with todays standards, your either walking on clouds, or your falling through 'em, nothing inbetween.

[Lexamena 391]

Ive noticed the word average is a strange thing. Average means halfway, good and bad, so like 5/10, but thats failure in most things today. If you only managed to get 50% on a test, or got 2 1/2 stars on a video game review, you failed.

 

Average now is like 7.5/10, but realistically that should be above average, right? So it seems to me people need to denote something as good or bad because if its not good, its average, and thats somehow a bad thing.

 

Theres no way to reach middle ground with todays standards, your either walking on clouds, or your falling through 'em, nothing inbetween.

I have noticed this as well about the word average.  How many times have we heard on tv "the average   person..., or the average whatever... " The word average does not mean "random" or "non-specific"  or "in general." Average means if everything was equal, so it's never a real illustration of what it's being used to  describe. Ugh, a real pet peeve of mine.  

[Kellie 122]

Honestly this is one of my favorite shows but I of course still have issues with it. For example, I don't like Spike, so for that episode about spike and the teen dragons? I snored the whole way through. I believe there are a lot of us middle grounders that like some aspects and dislike others, however, I don't believe us to be as vocal about it as those with extreme opinions, so you see the extremes more often.

[cider float 2,538]

The middle ground is the battle ground.