web How Can We Change the Bronalaysis Community?

[Tom Snyder 4,111]

 

I do agree some fans do attack the analyzer pretty heavily for his opinion on an episode, but that can be a good thing as it provides conversation, a means to get things humming along. Analyzers need to accept they'll get negative responses; use that to your advantage make them discuss it; so not shy away from negativity; embrace it. 

 

Avoiding it only makes it uninteresting and fans need to accept others views for what they are, opinions.

[TheJLeeTeam 914]

One thing I would change is to lower expectations for stories that are darker, and more serious and mostly expect more light hearted stories that don't need to be really deep but just good enough to deliver a moral.

 

By the way Tommy Oliver seems to have a similar situation I'm having though not as abrasive.

[Alto 437]

^ what he said

they just nitpick the most mundane things

 

i watched quite a few and the only one i liked is cannedcream

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

We can't fix it, because there is nothing to fix here.

 

You can't expect that everyone in the analysis community thinks alike, because everyone has there own unique style to analyze/review pony stuff.

 

You also can't fix how bronies react to certain things in the analysis community, because everyone reacts differently.

[ThatOneComrade 1,091]

Simple solution. Have more Canned Creams and Silver Quills.

No but really they're not that bad, If I don't care for them-- ie Tommy Oliver-- I just don't watch. They're typically very kind.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Pokekid543

[Dark Qiviut 22,201]

@@TheJLeeTeam and @@Alto, I completely disagree with you. Lowering the expectations to the level for certain shows would create implications that some family shows should have a lower standard. Don't. If you give one show a standard, apply it to all to keep it fair.

 

---

 

A few things I suggest:

 

Make the BAC more approachable. Sometimes because of how popular certain reviewers are, it's difficult to communicate. But it also puts the BAC on a separate island and, thus, help enforce its cold reputation. Even SQ was on an island for a while until he started AtF videos for the comics. Dr. Wolf and Byter are among the few to actively approach other fans.

 

Stop attacking fans. I simply don't mean just T_O's arrogance to his watchers and passersby. Mr. Enter has this problem of bashing people who use strawmen arguments, and he sometimes counterargues with strawmen of his own like his Twilight's Kingdom review and some Animated Atrocities. Less attacking the person and more attacking the argument, and make sure your argument is sound. MisAnthroPony's awful "Rant" series is a collosal failure because he cyberbullied members of the analysis community, and he's starting to regret it. FNGR (who's banned from here) attacked MAP and Rift Cafe analysts by using ableist slurs, including "autistic," under a dummy account. Jerry Peet bashed DigiBro and scapegoated the fandom. Even Josh Scorcher isn't immune, getting into a nasty argument with T_O a while back in the commentary.

 

Explain your position more. ILKPaL is considered an analyst, but it's less "reviewing" and more expositing and joking. This makes her comments feel really, really hollow. The same for people like The Voice of Reason and Mr. Enter, as their thoughts are summaries, the latter a recap with some thoughts sprinkled in. Drowning in Horseshoes, SQ, and TBBAP are pretty good at explaining, the latter more in explaining and joking among at least two people. It's one reason why I devote a ton of time writing reviews; lest I can really deeply explain something, then everyone's time is wasted. Take your time to explain.

 

Keep each other, and yourself, accountable. Sometimes the BAC can look like a clique rather than a community for reasons I don't fully know. But if there's logic you disagree, post it and explain. If the opinion is bullshit, then explain and keep other members and yourself honest. If your opinion is full of holes, expect criticism of your opinion whether they're positive or negative.

 

---

 

We can't fix it, because there is nothing to fix here.

 

You can't expect that everyone in the analysis community thinks alike, because everyone has there own unique style to analyze/review pony stuff.

 

You also can't fix how bronies react to certain things in the analysis community, because everyone reacts differently.

I can understand that. But when I'm thinking of "fixing" or "changing," I'm thinking of how to more improve the BAC as is.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[cuteycindyhoney 13,285]

Why fix something that has little or no effect? I don't need someone to give me their analysis of an episode to know if I liked it or not. If they want to analyze episodes, that's cool though. I'll just stick with my own thoughts and opinions on any given episode. 

[Alto 437]

@Dark Qiviut you're missing the point what i meant is dont expect similar content for a tv-y show with a pg 13

mlp is and always be a show for kids were just lucky that they have an excellent writing team that can cater to adults, if you want something more thought provoking watch avatar or pick up a anime title 

Edited June 8, 2015 by Alto

[TopQuark 409]

I believe that the negative reactions to contrary opinions tends to be viewed out of preportion. Negative reaction tends to be a relative minority in an echo chamber. In my experience, only the people with strong opinions comment on critique videos to either say it was good or bad. So when the critic says somthing unpopular, the few who are easily upset start yelling at one target, so it can be overwhelming. I believe the majority of these critic's fans are generally calm and open-minded people who have better things to do than rant in a YouTube comments section about how some random person's opinion doesn't line up with their own.

Edited June 8, 2015 by TopQuark

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,329]

I will agree with what DQ says on the account of making the community way more approachable. I've tried making my own analysis videos on YouTube and they feel overshadowed in a sea of other popular analysts. I would join the rift cafe but that would require me getting up to 150 subs and I only have 73.

 

Also, be reasonable with your critiques. Don't decry an episode as "terrible" because one thing didn't go your way. When you get mad at an episode, ask yourself this:

 

How much does this "flaw" affect the overall product? If it doesn't affect it at all, than it's really not something to get too worked up over. If it is something that affects the story, than get mad about it all you want.

 

Also, don't come off as condescending. This applies especially when sharing an unpopular opinion. This doesn't apply to just the BAC but other sections of the internet. Try to be as reasonable with sharing your opinions. Dr. Wolf does this decently. He shares his opinions in a more soft-spoken way without coming off as too dickish. If you come off as too elitist, chances are people will just click away due to how condescending you may come off as. It's okay for people to have differing opinions, and those people are not just "blindly praising" because what they perceive in the episode is something good. 

 

If they follow these steps, they might just get better.

[Misty Rose 3,215]

One thing that does rub me the wrong way about the analysis community is that they can't just have fun with an episode They overthink things and find certain things offensive but really they just need to lighten up and not nitpick too much. That's why I have more fun watching analysts like Silver Quill who do give criticism but also have lighthearted fun with those points

[The Coffee Pony 1,390]

We can't. Everyone has their own way of having fun and enjoying the show and honestly I don't care about nor do I see why we should change the way they see the show. Everyone has a different viewpoint, that's the way people are, there's no point in trying to change them. We can debate but we can't force someone to change their views.

 

Take Quivit, for example, (Sorry for naming you specifically, man, just need to use an example.) he takes a hard stance on the show and takes it very seriously and analyzes it in detail. That's the way he is, that's how he enjoys the show, that's how he has fun and that ain't going to change nor do I why he should. I don't agree with him but I'm not going to force my views down his throat. And on the other side of the spectrum I'll use myself as an example, I'm laid back and am pretty lax when I view a show or movie. I don't analyse the show in great detail and I really don't care about the minor inconsistancies or hiccups. As long as the episodes fun or tells a good story that's good enough for me. Even when I enjoy something I'll admit it has flaws, hell I can even enjoy stupid movies as long as they're fun. But when you make very major inconsistancies or completley butcher things, like how Star Trek Into Darkness completely disrigarded Star Trek lore or when Transformers Age of Extinction completely butchered Optimus Prime's character, then that's when I take issue and will go all out in tearing it apart. That's how I am, ain't going to change. Is my way flawed? Probably, I don't care, you don't have to agree with it nor am I going to force you to share my view point. Seriously people, have your own views! Let people enjoy a show how they want to enjoy it! It's a friggen TV Show, no need to go up in arms and hurt anyone just because they have a differing view.

 

Besides, echo chambers are boring.

Edited June 8, 2015 by The Coffee Pony

[Dark Qiviut 22,201]

@@Alto, Content rating has nothing to do with how thought-provoking a product can be. All it does is display whether something is appropriate for specific demographics. Disney classics like Hunchback and Beauty & the Beast are incredibly thought-provoking, and they're suitable for everybody. Conversely, AVATAR (a PG-13 movie) is one of the most beautiful movies ever, but the story is a ripoff of Disney's Pocahontas. The rating and demographics don't determine the quality, but the people who make them instead. For FIM, this includes Hasbro.

 

Several episodes of FIM are very thought-provoking. Suited for Success, Party of One, Lesson Zero, Magical Mystery Cure (despite being lower-tier), and The Cutie Map are several examples. People are drawn in for several degrees of views, some more personal than others. Two of them are because it's feel-good and high in quality rather than simply trapped in its mandates.

 

I would join the rift cafe but that would require me getting up to 150 subs and I only have 73.

I asked a similar question to Pink Mist, who's a mod there, by PM. If you can provide good insight and good content overall, then you may be able to make it even if you don't meet the subscription requirements.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[Tom Snyder 4,111]

They can learn from past mistakes, but what TO did was unacceptable in behavior.

[Gearbox10mm 794]

One thing that does rub me the wrong way about the analysis community is that they can't just have fun with an episode They overthink things and find certain things offensive but really they just need to lighten up and not nitpick too much. That's why I have more fun watching analysts like Silver Quill who do give criticism but also have lighthearted fun with those points

 

I'm thinking FimFlam has the right idea.

 

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

His points about the analysis community being "oversaturated" are spot-on, and one part of a reason why I don't do videos. Another being the possible price of fame. Imagine what kind of bridges Tommy Oliver may have burned by scorning his fanbase like this.

 

Following his advice, I won't post most of my thoughts here because either ToonKritic already expressed them well or others will inevitably get to something similar. I'll admit to a little bit of confirmation bias myself, and I present the reason for that as looking to people who have a talent for expressing their opinions better than I can to express my opinions for me. It's natural to gravitate towards people who share our opinions. The problem is that we should not be so dependent on these people to do our thinking for us. They're enjoyable to watch and talented people, but that doesn't mean we're any less of people than they are.

 

As for the tone I'd deliver, ToonKritic pretty much says it, and my review blogs pretty much say it. Structured, concise, with every point clearly marked. However, I'd occasionally slip a little joke into the review every now and then to keep the audience engaged, because we all know strict formatting is boring without a little flexibility.

 

I consider all possible, founded arguments. One of the negative points of many analysts is that they get too passionate about the show, intensely fanboying over it when it does good and intensely trashing it when it goes wrong. Everything right or wrong about the episode, in my style, is examined as well as its real-world implications, and suggested with a possible alternative route.

 

Finally, chief among all problems is that some have expectations too lofty for the show. Oliver's expectations of the show used to be more realistic; slice-of-life with a fantasy component. However, something changed between seasons 4 and 5. He got jaded by his viewing of anime and other cartoons like Digibro did and it led him to unfairly expect an airtight plot and continuity from this show. For me personally, I expect a great moral and message and a plot not airtight or with the complexity of a crime drama, but sound enough to support the delivery of the moral without marginalizing or contradicting it, or going back on its characters. The subtext and humor is all excellent when it's there, but it's a bonus as far as the overall structure of the show is concerned; something even the writers don't get at times.

 

Everything should be considered fairly and equally if backed up by the adequate amount of evidence. Fanboyism and experiences with other shows shouldn't pollute our vision of MLP and what it really is. Most of all, fans have a responsibility to think for themselves and not externalize their problems on figures as known as the analysts.

[Alto 437]

@Dark Qiviut

though what you say is true

i wont watch mlp the same way as cartoons catered to a more adult audience like Legend of Korra or family guy

some of this analyst guys nitpick everything cause most of them wants the show to more mature 

Edited June 8, 2015 by Alto

[Misty Rose 3,215]

I'm thinking FimFlam has the right idea.

 

 

Oh god I need to watch this, I love this guy's stuff

[TheJLeeTeam 914]

@@TheJLeeTeam and @@Alto, I completely disagree with you. Lowering the expectations to the level for certain shows would create implications that some family shows should have a lower standard. Don't. If you give one show a standard, apply it to all to keep it fair.

So I should keep my expectations the same as when I first started watching? When I first started my typical expectations were mostly a light hearted show with life lessons and some dark more serious moments every so often. And some good episodes and bad episodes like most shows. Should I just keep those expectations?

Edited June 8, 2015 by TheJLeeTeam

[Dark Qiviut 22,201]

Now that I finished watching TK's video, I'll add more to this.

 

Don't create controversy. It's a reverse standard, but hear me out. This was rather subtle from season three onward, but it's now becoming more into the limelight since he revealed how some enjoy it. It's really daft to enjoy and try to create controversy. The second you do, then your thoughts, whether they're positive or negative, no longer feel sincere. Instead, they come off as very, very forced. "Intentional controversy" lacks honesty; if you're going to say, say it, but mind what you're saying, and make them feel genuine. I want to see your thoughts and review of the work's quality be real. If you're intentionally creating controversy, you're no better than an Internet troll.

 

Quit with the fallacies. This relates to one of my earlier points about T_O's ad hominems and MrEnter's strawmen and ad hominems from earlier. Even ToonKritic had this problem with his video by using the "fanboy stereotype" voice. It's not the fact the show is perfect. Part of the reason why some bronies are very defensive is the way the BAC approaches itself beyond just the videos. The friction isn't entirely on the BAC or the surrounding brony fanbase. The issue is at least two-way, and fallacious arguments have plenty to do with it.

 

DON'T attack the writers! We saw this with Mr. Enter attacking Fullerton and Williams before he smartened up, but it isn't only him. VoR did the same by acting overly snarky when reviewing Merriwether Williams's content. Remember, they're human, too. It's one thing to tear apart the work. When you attack the person, kiss your integrity goodbye. When I reviewed the EQG Holiday Special, I was praised for my resolve of not even mentioning the Ted Anderson controversy. Part of the reason why is because my anger over Anderson's politics should have no bearing in the review. I'm reviewing the comic, not Anderson's politics. If I leaked my anger of Anderson's misandry into my review, then my review lacks any integrity. It's one of my favorite reviews for this reason alone.

[Grepper 3,192]

I don't really think there is anything we can do as individuals that aren't major analysts to effect change besides subscribing to good analysts and leaving the bad ones.

[Jeremiah 1,586]

I completely agree on what ToonKritic said about everything.

[TheJLeeTeam 914]

One thing I would change is to be more accepting of show changes such as Twilicorn or her castle. I feel Mr. Enter does a good job of accepting changes. And also I would like people to stop craving for more dark serious episodes all the time because that's not the main tone of this show plus I feel like there's a good amount of dark serious moments as it is.

[Dark Qiviut 22,201]

So I should keep my expectations the same as when I first started watching? When I first started my typical expectations were mostly a light hearted show with life lessons and some dark more serious moments every so often. And some good episodes and bad episodes like most shows. Should I just keep those expectations?

The way I see it, expectations and standards should remain constant, especially standards. (How high or low your expectations depends on you.) Focus on the quality regardless of tone because "tone" and "depth" aren't interchangeable. It's equally possible to have a very deep, lighthearted story and a shallow, serious story. It depends on the execution. The best stories in FIM offer plenty of well-done depth regardless of tone.

 

One thing I would change is to be more accepting of show changes such as Twilicorn or her castle.

Completely disagree. Changes shouldn't be willingly accepted. Instead, examine the changes and see why they work or don't. A lot of people criticized the Twilicorn because the change is heavily rushed, inorganic, and reliant on broken continuity of the cutie mark being predestined. A lot of people criticized the castle because Ponyville's houses have a very consistent architectural design, but Twilight's castle is way too tall and feels way too cold.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[TheJLeeTeam 914]

The way I see it, expectations and standards should remain constant, especially standards. (How high or low your expectations depends on you.) Focus on the quality regardless of tone because "tone" and "depth" aren't interchangeable. It's equally possible to have a very deep, lighthearted story and a shallow, serious story. It depends on the execution. The best stories in FIM offer plenty of well-done depth regardless of tone.

 

 

Completely disagree. Changes shouldn't be willingly accepted. Instead, examine the changes and see why they work or don't. A lot of people criticized the Twilicorn because the change is heavily rushed, inorganic, and reliant on broken continuity of the cutie mark being predestined. A lot of people criticized the castle because Ponyville's houses have a very consistent architectural design, but Twilight's castle is way too tall and feels way too cold.

Besides Twilicorn do you think this show is getting worse, better or it's still on the same level of quality? Because I feel that this show is getting more expansive.