Mature Themes/Conflicts in Seasons 4, 5, and Beyond

[Dark Qiviut 22,378]

This topic is in connection with Evolution of the Morals. If you haven't posted or read there, please participate.

 

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In the first three seasons, there were plenty of very lighthearted themes, typically slice of life. Normally, they were written solid enough to not talk down to its audience, but they're also very simple conflicts, many of which we can relate to. But there were some serious themes in those episodes:

1. The difference between being assertive and being a bully in Putting Your Hoof Down.
2. How phobias can literally cripple an individual and make him or her incapable of doing something. Hurricane Fluttershy developed 'Shy's trait beyond shyness and more of a basis of stage fright.
3. One Bad Apple depicting trauma of bullying and how it can affect a victim's decision to bully.
4. Wonderbolts Academy: Deciding whether to follow your dreams versus following your own morale. The academy isn't without faults, particularly the idea that they reward ponies based on their recklessness rather than doing it the right way.

Come season four, the staff began to experience two areas: greyer morals and maturer conflicts. The mature morals and messages are in the linked topic atop. But the themes aren't as simple as before most of the time, either.

1. Flight to the Finish: The moral is what makes you great is yourself. But the theme is what really brings this whole message home. Scootaloo looked up to Dash and idolized her, but her inability to fly causes her to doubt her worth.
2. Rarity Takes Manhattan ties up the moral of how not to let someone's vindictive nature change who you are with plagiarism. Rarity makes the most sense for such a theme, for she's very savvy in both creation and production. When someone plagiarizes you, you sometimes don't know who to trust and assume someone close to you will also do such a thing.
3. Bats! covers dealing with and sticking with your own morale and believing what is the right thing to do despite her five friends pushing for something that's against her ideals.
4. Pinkie Pride has a twinge of jealousy, but it's less about it and more about how to deal with pride when someone else suddenly barges in, is more renowned for the same skillset, and can do it better than you. In a world like Equestria where you express yourself through your talents, to introduce Cheese Sandwich and prove how he can take Pinkie's talent to a much more professional level.
5. Toils discusses jealousy, too, but in a very radical way. As Rarity becomes more and more recognized, Sweetie Belle is still growing up and doesn't have her cutie mark. So when her script and story are overshadowed by Rarity's costumes, it makes her feel very worthless. Was she wrong? Yes. But understand the continuity of the show and then feel upstaged; it's understandable why she's upset.
6. Sometimes friends don't want to be blunt and honest because that means possibly straining and damaging their relationship, and Inspiration Manifestation covers this. Although Spike made a big mistake by not calling out Rarity for letting her wishes and creative urges take herself over, it was very understandable. Rarity felt completely insulted by how the puppeteer bashed her design for focusing on its aesthetics instead of utility. Spike was there to see it all, and he didn't want what happened between them to happen to him and her.

In only a half-season, season five's themes were upped considerably.

1. It's already self-explanatory, but The Cutie Map contains so many allegories, especially cultism and totalitarianism. But the biggest theme revolves around the concept of cutie marks. Cutie Marks are the pony's essence, but what if they give it up to join Starlight's village? Considering Double Diamond implied he joined the village willingly, it makes this theme spooky.
2. Wherever you go, it's very difficult moving to a new home after living in your old one for so long, as evident by Castle Sweet Castle. The Golden Oak Library housed so many memories over the previous four, so to suddenly be forced to move feels a lot like a burden. She misses her old home, and the emptiness and coldness of her new place made her house less of a home than the rest of her friends.
3. How about taking a well-known joke in the fandom and turn it into a serious discussion? Bloom & Gloom brought out some very serious fears and questions about what type of cutie mark she might receive someday. Would it be one she doesn't like? Would it not be apple-related, resulting in permanent estrangement?
4. Tanks for the Memories: This is a simple one: the ability to grieve and be okay to grieve without discussing death.
5. Amending Fences: One very common event many people experience in real life is the fact that you're excited to see so many of your friends and family attend an event you work hard for. Instead, most or all don't show up. This big theme can be, at least, halved:
   1. Abandonment: Moondancer worked very hard to help invite Twilight. But Twilight not only never showed up. She never said goodbye and left her past life completely behind her. Consider how MD was a social outcast and then needed to be seriously convinced by Twinkleshine, Minuette, and Lemon Hearts to even plan it. It heightens this feeling of betrayal. A betrayal of her word and trust.
   2. Reclusion: Because Twilight acted like she was worthless, MD's self-worth was broken. As a result, she turned down every single party, abandoned any positive quality she once had, and then studied without any goals to cope with the grief.
6. Family shows almost never even mention its existence, but Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep? was an allegory of self-harm. In prior continuity, Princess Luna was forgiven by Celestia, the Mane Six, Luna, and the rest of Equestria. But there's a completely big difference between them forgiving you and you forgiving yourself. A lot of people who are depressed, cut, or both hide their visible and invisible scars in order to not drag anybody else with them. Luna used the Tantabus as a way to harm herself subconsciously, because the inability to forgive herself pained her so much. Why do so many kids cut? Because they can cope with the physical pain much more than psychological. Often, the pain that hurts the most isn't physical, but mental.

In the other thread, I wrote this in my OP:

 

Prior, MLP's morals were very straightforward, black and white, way too vanilla, and oftentimes filled with unfortunate implications (like Princess Promenade's implications of friends not being equal if one's a princess). FIM still has the simple morals, and the implications still exist if the connotations are there. But there was more care in making sure the morals don't talk down to the audience for the most part.

 

But once more, one of the biggest evolutions so far is the complexity of the morals in seasons. Quite frankly, it's something a family cartoon like FIM desperately needs. When you're delivering a complex moral in a show with a very young base demographic, you're telling kids, parents, and the entire periphery demographic you treating them like intelligent human beings. You're not talking down to kids when you're writing a mature moral. You're saying that they're just as capable of learning and understanding deep and mature morals as adults. Kids may not have the complex brain maturity that most adults have, but they understand respect: Three-dimensional morals give kids the respect they deserve and ups the overall quality of family TV altogether. Considering this franchise's dumbed down past, feminine background, very young base demographic, and family-friendly/gender-neutral atmosphere, all the more important.

 

Change the word from "morals" to "themes," and you get the same opinion. Like three-dimensional morals, deeper conflicts enrich Equestrian society by making it feel more and more real. Sometimes this world is too idealistic. While this is great in theory, it also damages the credibility of the world by whitewashing deep, dark, or mature conflicts that happen so often in real life. By presenting real-world, serious conflicts, kids are being told directly that they happen — sometimes more often than you think — and can really affect others, including themselves. A lot of people young and old cut themselves like Luna cut her own psyche. Will they ever experience at least one of these conflicts? If going by the "death" allegory, absolutely. They might experience conflicts not even explored in this franchise yet. But if you're going to approach a family-friendly audience, don't ignore the dark or mature stuff. Put them in and give them the respect these dilemmas deserve. For the most part, they succeed.

 

With that, I have some questions for you, and I would love to see them answered, hopefully with a lot of depth. If you choose to answer them, please put in some effort to answering them.

1. Of the mature themes in seasons four and five, which one is the most personal? Which one can you relate to the most? This can be on a positive or negative level.
2. What other mature conflicts do you like to see explored in this show, whether it's in the second half of season five, season six, EQG, the movie, comics, etc.?
   
   As a bonus, how do you like to have the mature theme concept played out? In other words, what episode idea can you construct this conflict around?
3. Of all the mature conflicts in this series (including ones not specified in this post, like the comics), which one do you love the most? Why do you love it? Is it because it's one you relate to, it's written well, doesn't ignore the implications, really connects to you on a very deep level, and so on?
4. Which mature conflict in this series offends you the most? How and/or why were you bothered by it? Is it due to a bad moral, a series of unfortunate implications, improper character choices, the overall writing quality, or so forth?

Edited July 27, 2015 by Dark Qiviut

[A Black Circle 1,586]

Morals I'd want? Learning not to punish yourself because you couldn't help someone. Also could tie in with regret.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Wow, what a wall of texts. I think I cant write that much lol. Anyway, what morals I want ( I think I already stated in your other topic...)

 

The farmer and the viper scenerios, bad people just dont magically change just because you show them your kindness. I Think it is too harsh so it wont happen anyway...

 

Episode that I relate the most is "Bloom and Gloom". I feel uncertain about my future and think everything will become worse...

 

My favorite conflict in the series is Pinkie Pride. This episode illustrated the situation perfectly. If someone has a same job as yours but better? That depressing...

 

Season 5's mature theme is depressing to me because it feels... less magical... less fun... more depressing... just like my life, less colorful everytime it grows... I just thought I watch mlp for escapism.

 

Season 5 is great becuz it has less magical solution for social problems so its good.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

 

 

 

The farmer and the viper scenerios, bad people just dont magically change just because you show them your kindness. I Think it is too harsh so it wont happen anyway...

 

 

Didn't they retcon that idea with Gilda anyways? She was created by faust to show that some people you just can't be friends with, and S5 went and showed "no, Secretly she REALLY did want to be friends!"

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Didn't they retcon that idea with Gilda anyways? She was created by faust to show that some people you just can't be friends with, and S5 went and showed "no, Secretly she REALLY did want to be friends!"

Yeah, season 5 show us that Gilda not totally jerk in the beginning in season 1 (Amy wrote 2 episodes so i think Gilda's redemption is relevant). In short, Gilda is not a "Viper".

[Steve Piranha 29,413]

It's not the first time the growing maturity of FiM has been discussed, watching a S2 episode with one of S4 it's not the same.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

It's not the first time the growing maturity of FiM has been discussed, watching a S2 episode with one of S4 it's not the same.

 

 

I will say one thing, the show had undoubtedly changed in tone, in that there's far more Adventure and "fight" kind of episodes; S1 and S2, there weren't really any real "Villain is threatening in a serious way, we have to stop them" epsiodes outside of two parters. Now we have episodes like Do princesses dream of magical sheep where the mane six are fighting a force that's very much on par with other villains like chrsyalis, or the power ponies episode which was a nice action comedy episode.

 

They seem to have gradually accepted more action and fighting into the show compared to early seasons.

[GuyNamedEarl 1,332]

They're definately acknowledging the older fanbase with latter episodes.

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,673]

The day they reveal the foal between Queen Chrysalis and Shining Armor...

You really can't get much more mature or dark than an illegitimate child. The writers would be walking on a thread -- the extreme nature of this balance is really that fine. Not only is it something that must be handled extremely delicately, it also shouldn't just gloss things over in the process of being delicate.

 

Of course, if it's to be believed that Hasbro plays it really safe, I'm pretty sure the concept of revealing Shining Armor's illegitimate foal would be completely out of the question and non-negotiable.

[Steve Piranha 29,413]

The day they reveal the foal between Queen Chrysalis and Shining Armor...

You really can't get much more mature or dark than an illegitimate child. The writers would be walking on a thread -- the extreme nature of this balance is really that fine. Not only is it something that must be handled extremely delicately, it also shouldn't just gloss things over in the process of being delicate.

 

Of course, if it's to be believed that Hasbro plays it really safe, I'm pretty sure the concept of revealing Shining Armor's illegitimate foal would be completely out of the question and non-negotiable.

I don't think the writers will go that far, but that'll definitely make a good episode 

[Singe 2,111]

I question the Wonderbolts Academy moral. It's sketchy. Unforeseen circumstances is what escalated the situation. Mane 5 decision to go to the Wonderbolts Academy in the middle of a training session, unannounced.  Seems like a share of the blame should be divided on this one between Lightning Dust, Rainbow Dash, Mane 5, and Wonderbolts Academy. Rainbow Dash quits, pins all the blame on Lightning Dust, and gets rewarded for it. Not good episode for a moral since RD gets away with her involvement with these reckless acts and in other episodes does similar/greater devastation like "Tank for the Memories".

Edited August 17, 2015 by Singe