Incompetent rulers = a show

[Silver Stream. 708]

I would have continued this conversation in another thread that is already discussing something similar to this topic, but due to a lot of posts going off topic, I decided to create my own. 

 

Basically, Lily Peet created a video stating how incompetent of a Ruler Celestia was and how she doesn't deserve to be the prime ruler over Equestria. To avoid retyping my thoughts on this, I'll just quote what I've previously stated:

 

 

 

 

Because I'm at work and in a good mood, I'll make this simple


She's a kind ruler with good intentions and does well to keep peace whenever there is no extreme threat. She's a good teacher who uses what other may see as "twisted methods" which have been proven to work especially with Twilight.

But she is an incompetent ruler nonetheless. But I don't blame too much on Celestial. Lets face it....it's for the sake of plots. In every show, the "good character" that is in high power of some sort is ALWAYS incompetent so that the plot can become interesting and DEPENDENT on the main protagonists.


I'll say further after work

 

 

Alright to further elaborate. Lily is quite...an analyst. There are some.videos she makes that I genuinely appreciate while others I can't honestly understand.


Lily has made 2 videos dealing with Celestia:

1. How Celestia being some ruthless dictator is total bullshit

2. Celestia is an incompetent ruler.incapable of keeping her kingdom safe.



As I said before.....I.have to agree with a little to what Lily says. And it's all thanks to that darn Season 5 finale where Celestia and her strongest forces are HOPELESS against the large dangers.


I.understand people.keep bringing up the fact she's ruled for.thousands of years and defeated danger in the past, but it was always with the help of the elements. Even so....her long reign proves she ISN'T as incompetent as Lily expresses.

She's incompetent now because Twilight and the Mane 5 exist. If Celestia was executed as the perfect ruler who made rational decisions over good ethical ones (such as preserving Discord into stone instead of killing him off to ensure he isn't a further threat to the kingdom) then we wouldn't have a show with the Mane 6 as our heroes.


In another discussion I made, I stressed how "The Magic of Friendship" is basically bullshit. It is solely the Mane 6 that are heroes with no other hope for another to save the day. That includes Celestia and the others.


But it is not her fault. Celestia's long and supposedly succeful reign is nothing but a way for the writers to fill plot.holes and create back stories for evil villains. After all....who doesn't appreciate an evil villain back for a round 2?


Lily, despite the fact that her delivery was rather strong and a bit egotistical, integrated some FAIR points. I feel as though it.could have been delivered in a better way. Instead.of focusing.on how incompetent the writers make Celestia these days, I think it's better to acknowledge WHY she's incompetent and how it degrades her as a leader in general.


I don't personally see freedom as an empty philosophy, but I am not that type of person to ignore the fact that others have the right and reason.to believe that it is. Nightmare Moon's reign is obviously more peaceful despite the fact she rules with an iron fist and instills fear over Equestria. One cannot blame a person.for preferably wanting an evil structured ruler to reign.over them than a nice wise.one who is incapable.of defneding her kingdom or known for.taking too many risks for their liking. 

 

Is Celestia unworthy of her title as ruler of Equestria? Well...there is no real answer to it because it depends on one's perspective on whether or not incompetent rulers are forgivable enough that their pros outweighs their mistakes OR an incompetent ruler poses more as a liability than a leader. 


And that's my opinion. Apologies for any typos. Its been a long day for me, plus I'm.mobile

 

 

 

 

 

(If you wish to watch the video yourself, simply google Lily Peet "Down with Celestia" and you should be good)

 

 

But understand, the focus is not on the video...but more so on your opinions on Incompetent rulers in general within MLP. I feel as though we should be reminded that incompetent rulers and other branches of power are crucial for there being a show in general. If there was a structured system with a competent ruler and a great security, there would be no need for an underdog team to come to the rescue. That applies to nearly every show/movie ever made in history. 

 

 

Celestia is executed as a ruler who does well to meet the needs of her subjects. She believes in giving them freedom to make their own choices EVEN if it's a huge risk. For example, her allowing Discord to hunt Tirek despite the risk of him betraying them. She's also an oblivious leader as well...and just like Cadence, she seems to get a thrill of chaos because she is often bored whenever things are TOO peaceful (as shown in "The Best Night Ever" and "Make New Friends but Keep Discord") 

 

 

Cadence is somewhat the same. Though she's been executed as a more effective ruler than Celestia which isn't surprising. She's what I would call a static character: created to be a perfect princess who's given kick-ass scenes and this perfect "big sister, down-to earth princess" to sell toys and give fans a pony to genuinely look up to. Other than these facts, she has little to NO development whatsoever. And even with all this, she is pretty much the princess who manages her best to keep large dangers at bay, but still ULTIMATELY depends on Twilight to get a victory. Even minor things such as asking the Mane 6 to welcome Mrs. Harshwhinny to the Crystal Empire when it was more rational to allow one of her own subjects to do it since they obviously know more about the place? 

 

And finally there's Luna....who I personally believe has more potential to rule Equestria if not for the fact she's too unstable to make good choices. As Nightmare Moon (in the episode The Cutie Remark) she is seemingly a good ruler despite her using fear and power to keep everyone in line. The confidence she possessed in that alternate timeline was admirable because she is more than capable of eliminating future threats to ensure nothing threatens her kingdom and nothing threatens her reign. Luna, however, is far too depressed to make rational decisions but even then we've seen how she less oblivious than Celestia when it comes to certain observations.

 

And lastly, I wish to talk about the guards within MLP including Shining Armor....who's incompetent as well as oblivious. How dangers always manages to sneak right pass them rendering all of them useless.

 

 

 

I personally don't hold any of this against them....because I know that it's a needed measure to bring the heroes in to save the day. From big premieres/finales to minor requests ...... the mane 6 are called in for the sake of an episode.

 

 

 

What do you guys think?     

Edited January 8, 2016 by Silver Stream.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Discussions about the leaders in mlp being incoptetent is the worst part of this fandom

 

It's just stupid

[Silver Stream. 708]

Discussions about the leaders in mlp being incoptetent is the worst part of this fandom

 

It's just stupid

 

 

Honestly not sure if this is directed towards me since this is a discussion about incompetent leaders in general despite the fact that I'm justifying the leaders/high branches of power. If it is directed towards me, all I ask is to stay out of the discussion if it's a discussion you despise. If not, then apologies for the misunderstanding xD

Edited January 8, 2016 by Silver Stream.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Honestly not sure if this is directed towards me since this is a discussion about incompetent leaders in general despite the fact that I'm justifying the leaders/high branches of power. If it is directed towards me, all I ask is to stay out of the discussion if it's a discussion you despise. If not, then apologies for the misunderstanding xD

No, just venting about the Lilly Peet thing to be honest thing honestly.

[Silver Stream. 708]

No, just venting about the Lilly Peet thing to be honest thing honestly.

 

 

Ah okay I understand. I mean, Lily Peet wasn't wrong in my opinion, I can see how her delivery might have pissed a few fans off, but to me Celestia is indeed incompetent as well as the other Princesses and high guards or any other forms of security or power throughout the show. But my focus isn't' really on Lily Peet, but more so on where people stand with incompetent authority in general and whether or not the fact that the show NEEDS them JUSTIFY their mistakes and misjudgment 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Silver Stream.

[Steve Piranha 28,893]

The main characters are the Mane 6. Yeah, sure, Celly is written as incompetent in the show, which makes little sense from a logical standpoint, but from a plot standpoint it does. I mean, who would want to watch a show whose main characters are overshadowed all the time? THEY must be the one solving the problems

[Silver Stream. 708]

The main characters are the Mane 6. Yeah, sure, Celly is written as incompetent in the show, which makes little sense from a logical standpoint, but from a plot standpoint it does. I mean, who would want to watch a show whose main characters are overshadowed all the time? THEY must be the one solving the problems

 

 

Precisely the whole reason of my long post. Basically they are needed. 

 

I never had any problems with the Mane 6 being the go-to guys for every problem. It's a common thing we've seen in nearly everything created from shows and movies to games and books. 

 

The only thing I never liked was the Season 5 finale where there is literally no alternative to the good side winning which I found hypocritical. Proving friendships aren't important unless you're the mane 6....and the magic of friendship as well as the elements are rendered useless along with Celestia and every able body in Equestria....a rather sad and dark truth to take in when looking at every alternate future that was presented.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,374]

Celestia is not written as incompetent, but she just is not written into the show much nowadays, which is okay. If Celestia was just magically solving everyone's problems, that would get kinda stale (I know some think this way for Twilight but that is a different discussion). 

 

Honestly, I cannot stand this whole 'Bleh, this character doesn't do enough of this or that, therefore they are just useless!' It seems some in this fandom latch onto that concept for any character. 

[Guest]

I would say "misguided" may describe her a bit more. I always imagine Fable 3's choice when I consider these kind of things: In the game you have to choose to be either a kind ruler or a strict ruler whom raises war funds. On one hand if you raise the funds you will build an army powerful enough to defeat the oncoming enemy, but you will be known as a tyrant for it. On the other you can choose to be a popular ruler and make your people love you with kindness and doing the right thing unto them, but the price is that many of them do not survive the oncoming war because you were unable to raise the funds.

 

I imagine Celestia as the latter. She tries to be fair and kind to her people but it leaves her in a position where when crisis happens she has no ability to save them. She fears making them hate her even if it is for their own protection. This effectively makes her a "bad" leader because of the fact that she isn't willing to truly "sacrifice" herself for her people.

[Silver Stream. 708]

Celestia is not written as incompetent, but she just is not written into the show much nowadays, which is okay. If Celestia was just magically solving everyone's problems, that would get kinda stale (I know some think this way for Twilight but that is a different discussion). 

 

Honestly, I cannot stand this whole 'Bleh, this character doesn't do enough of this or that, therefore they are just useless!' It seems some in this fandom latch onto that concept for any character. 

 

 

Personally, I think she is written as incompetent even if it wasn't intentional on the writers part. I usually ignore when there is a huge uproar on how a certain character barely does anything because while things are being said about "they don't do enough" things are also being said about "how they do too much". I see it as a fandom never being satisfied no matter the outcome. But that applies to literally every fandom. In fact that applies to PEOPLE in general when it comes to never reaching satisfaction; making the saying "If it's not one damn thing, it's the other" quite popular. 

 

While Celestia isn't written into the show that much, she is certainly written in far more than others. I feel as though she DOES ENOUGH to a certain extent but whenever she DOES something, it barely solves anything or it simply makes things worse. Including her giving orders or making decisions.

 

 

My focus isn't entirely on Celestia though.....more so all the princesses except Twilight (obviously) and other characters with some sort of authority or a part of security.  

I would say "misguided" may describe her a bit more. I always imagine Fable 3's choice when I consider these kind of things: In the game you have to choose to be either a kind ruler or a strict ruler whom raises war funds. On one hand if you raise the funds you will build an army powerful enough to defeat the oncoming enemy, but you will be known as a tyrant for it. On the other you can choose to be a popular ruler and make your people love you with kindness and doing the right thing unto them, but the price is that many of them do not survive the oncoming war because you were unable to raise the funds.

 

I imagine Celestia as the latter. She tries to be fair and kind to her people but it leaves her in a position where when crisis happens she has no ability to save them. She fears making them hate her even if it is for their own protection. This effectively makes her a "bad" leader because of the fact that she isn't willing to truly "sacrifice" herself for her people.

 

I can somewhat accept this in a way. Perhaps she is misguided....but if I was to see it that way, than it'll only support Lily Peet's opinion of "Freedom" being an empty philosophy. Because that's basically what Celestia is all about. She doesn't do much to think for others and is GREAT with risking things when it comes to giving them the freedom to make their own choices.

 

It's hard to imagine Celestia fears being hated, but then again, it's quite possible she's hiding it well in contrast to Luna's fear of being hated for what Nightmare Moon has done.  

Edited January 8, 2016 by Silver Stream.

[Metemponychosis 1,238]

But understand, the focus is not on the video...but more so on your opinions on Incompetent rulers in general within MLP. I feel as though we should be reminded that incompetent rulers and other branches of power are crucial for there being a show in general. If there was a structured system with a competent ruler and a great security, there would be no need for an underdog team to come to the rescue. That applies to nearly every show/movie ever made in history. 

 

 

I disagree. You can write a very competent leader/ruler that does everything in their power and still need help with somethings. It's not like there is any rule that fixates how much power/intelligence/ability/whatever any given character has. The key thing here is how much does this character actually does. This comes from the argument that Celestia would OHKO anything in existence and thus she must be removed from the story so that others have anything to do. This is bad writing to begin with, but I can see no reason why Celestia couldn't be written in any giver situation where she has some task to do so that others can focus on their task. Like Luna in that episode with the long name that I hate, or Cadance in any episode where there is a fight going on.

 

 

Celestia is executed as a ruler who does well to meet the needs of her subjects. She believes in giving them freedom to make their own choices EVEN if it's a huge risk. For example, her allowing Discord to hunt Tirek despite the risk of him betraying them. She's also an oblivious leader as well...and just like Cadence, she seems to get a thrill of chaos because she is often bored whenever things are TOO peaceful (as shown in "The Best Night Ever" and "Make New Friends but Keep Discord") 

 

No she isn't. I fact I don't think there is anything related to Celestia as a ruler anywhere in the cartoon. this idea that Celestia has a "hooves off" approach to ruling is headcanon. Not once has she said anything about this or has anyone in the show mentioned this. It comes from her absence or to "LOL the plot must happen!".

 

I'm not sure why you say that she's an oblivious leader. I don't think I ever saw Celestia leading, and that is part of the problem.

 

Now let's be careful with the word "chaos" okay? That word is dangerous because it implies a certain level of intensity. The idea that Celestia brought the Mane Six to the gala in Best Night Ever is okay. She says that she was thrilled that the girls were attending, because she was hopping that they'd liven up things a bit. This makes sense if you ask me. Now "Make New Friends But Keep Discord" happens and we learn that Celestia plans the damn thing. What the hell is wrong with her? She purposely makes up a party in a way she doesn't appreciate, and then she sabotages her own plans. If I was a hater I'd say that she lures ponies looking for an evening of elegance and sophistication and then throws "chaos" at the party because she likes seeing ponies in distress. What other reason could she have? Why doesn't she make the party the way she wants it to be? If I didn't think that this is the writers screwing up, I'd think that she's going senile!

 

Speaking of that episode, the whole thing would've been a lot better if they removed the gala, the princess, the other mane six and kept it simple with Discord, Fluttershy and Tree Hugger. But this is just my opinion. The point is... This doesn't even say that Celestia doesn't like the nobility, like people started saying after season on ended. I mean, in the beginning it made me think that she's forced to deal with an event that she doesn't like and does that because she likes having fun or is getting back at the ponies doing that to her. But now she looks like she's insane.

 

 

Cadence is somewhat the same. Though she's been executed as a more effective ruler than Celestia which isn't surprising. She's what I would call a static character: created to be a perfect princess who's given kick-ass scenes and this perfect "big sister, down-to earth princess" to sell toys and give fans a pony to genuinely look up to. Other than these facts, she has little to NO development whatsoever. And even with all this, she is pretty much the princess who manages her best to keep large dangers at bay, but still ULTIMATELY depends on Twilight to get a victory. Even minor things such as asking the Mane 6 to welcome Mrs. Harshwhinny to the Crystal Empire when it was more rational to allow one of her own subjects to do it since they obviously know more about the place? 

 

 

When has Cadance been executed as an effective ruler? She's a better fighter and seems to have an assortment of spells that she can use in practical situations, but all this means is that Celestia never got a chance. Speaking of her, why is it that Cadance even exists? Celestia could've fit the bill perfectly AND was an established character that supposedly cared for Twilight and Twilight cared for her. Now it seems Celestia doesn't even exist anymore.

 

 

And finally there's Luna....who I personally believe has more potential to rule Equestria if not for the fact she's too unstable to make good choices. As Nightmare Moon (in the episode The Cutie Remark) she is seemingly a good ruler despite her using fear and power to keep everyone in line. The confidence she possessed in that alternate timeline was admirable because she is more than capable of eliminating future threats to ensure nothing threatens her kingdom and nothing threatens her reign. Luna, however, is far too depressed to make rational decisions but even then we've seen how she less oblivious than Celestia when it comes to certain observations.

 

The difference between Luna and Celestia is that Luna is allowed to win a few times before she's "defeated". They are both the same kind of character and Luna just happens to do more than exposition and fail so that another character can win. I don't mean necessarily in a fight, but being able to overcome an obstacle. I don't think Celestia ever had the chance of doing that.

 

Speaking of Nightmare Moon... What the hell happened? Why did the ponies think it's okay to live under Nightmare Moon but not Chrysalis? Did they forget that Celestia used to care about them? If Nightmare Moon isn't that bad, why is she even a villain? Why did Celestia fight her? That episode was an abomination of fanwanking. Villains are cool! Let's show the villains again! The problem is that just like the heroes are as great as the villains they fight, the villains are as great as the heroes they fight, and Nightmare Moon's hero was Celestia. But I felt like asking her 'So you've defeated Celestia. What's next? Stealing candy?' There is no weight to "villain x defeated Celestia" anymore, because Celestia never really showed the audience what she can do.

 

 

And lastly, I wish to talk about the guards within MLP including Shining Armor....who's incompetent as well as oblivious. How dangers always manages to sneak right pass them rendering all of them useless.

 

So the guards have the same problem and the root of it is basically the same. Lazy writing, not caring, and "LOL Villains are cool".

 

 

I personally don't hold any of this against them....because I know that it's a needed measure to bring the heroes in to save the day. From big premieres/finales to minor requests ...... the mane 6 are called in for the sake of an episode.

 

Again, the problem isn't that the main characters get things done, the problem is that the support cast is shoved aside instead of being useful and helping in solving the problem.

 

You can disagree with me on everything if you want. But the problem isn't the character: it's the writers. We, as the audience, are supposed to think of Celestia as powerful, wise and all that (though she's been so abused by bad writing I'm not sure anymore). The problem is that every time she has a chance of being that the writers just think that shes getting in the way of another character that needs to be the one that solves the problem. But instead of building the scenario where she can be helpful, she gets ignored or shoved aside. It's like Superman if he couldn't ever use his super strength because all villains, from street thug to supervillain has kryptonite handy.

[Guest]

Didn't the finale of season 5 more or less point out that if Celestia had like... Killed Sombra back in the day that they wouldn't have had that problem? Or if like she had KILLED Discord back in the day instead of imprison him they wouldn't have had an issue. Or like... Killed her sister when they had an issue she never would have had the chance to come back as Nightmare Moon? I mean yes, killing her sister would have been hard, but for the good of all of her subjects it would have been her duty.

 

Especially considering she didn't KNOW Twilight and friends would show up in the future to deal with these problems and those episodes more or less show that if they hadn't showed up to fix Celestia's inability to kill people trying to take over Equestria, that they would more or less be in crap city. I mean she could have killed a lot of people to protect her subjects but by choosing mercy again and again she puts Equestria in danger. Hell she chooses to send Discord to deal with Tirek which was definitely a stupid choice given his track record. All because she wants to show him "forgiveness". When the lives of your subjects are at stake, it's not exactly a time to make a statement, you should go with a safer bet instead of just hoping things will work themselves out.

 

There are several other instances as well where she could have helped but chose not to for more or less poorly explained reasoning such as in the Equestria Girls movie. "I can't go Twilight, because reasons." She couldn't lift a finger to help just because was the explanation we got.

[Metemponychosis 1,238]

@@Key Sharkz, Even the comics already made fun of this.

 

This is because these characters don't really have a past. They're written into existence and part of the process is a backstory. So they're given a past, instead of having one. And the people writing this cartoon don't really have a lot of creativity... It baffles me that instead of going to deal with Tirek with Luna, like in the past, Celestia just sends Discord. But then, we'd have the forbidden character actually doing something instead of Twilight having a deathbattle of mildly epic proportions with the bad guy.

 

Before the Cutie Re-Mark I thought that the idea of Celestia actually maneuvering things so that the Mane Six would end up in Ponyville at the same time, at the right time was a good explanation, but yeah. That's dead now.

 

The thing is Celestia never really acts as the 1000 years old monarch of a nation, with the experience of all that time of dealing with the hell that is Equestria. I'm starting to wonder if the people that say Celestia is actually evil aren't right.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Metemponychosis

[Dark Qiviut 22,177]

 

 

Didn't the finale of season 5 more or less point out that if Celestia had like... Killed Sombra back in the day that they wouldn't have had that problem? Or if like she had KILLED Discord back in the day instead of imprison him they wouldn't have had an issue. Or like... Killed her sister when they had an issue she never would have had the chance to come back as Nightmare Moon? I mean yes, killing her sister would have been hard, but for the good of all of her subjects it would have been her duty.

Honestly, for Celestia to kill two out of the three here is a bad idea.

1. Discord is stated in Return of Harmony that he is the spirit of chaos and disharmony. Typically, you can't kill gods, only subdue them.
2. Princess Luna and Celestia are attached to one another. You literally can't have one without the other. Nightmare Moon personifies anger and jealousy. To kill her younger sister would've lent a broken heart upon Celestia that she may never recover from. To have the EoH seal her soul into the moon was the best way to keep her at bay until future heirs can do that for her.
3. Don't know about Sombra.

[Silver Stream. 708]

snip

 

 

Honestly reading the entire thing seems as if I was reading a huge contradiction. Incompetence:  the condition of lacking power to act with legal effectiveness; inability to do something successful. Somewhere I've stated Celesia isn't as incompetent as Lily thinks....or more so she wasn't at first. The moment the "show existed" is when she started to be seemingly useless.  True: you CAN write a very competent leader who does everything in their power but still needs help with somethings. Looking at Celestia she does little to no effort to really solve the situation herself or protect her kingdom. In fact the most I've seen from her doing all that she can to protect her kingdom was in the alternate future where Sombra created the war. And Celestia doesn't need help with somethings......it's literally everything. 

 

Cadence exist to sell toys. She a perfect big sister who rules a pretty kingdom and supposedly does a good job with it. 

 

 

Chaos is worded perfectly with it to me. Perhaps you're thinking of a more extreme version. bu tI only mean disorder and lack of law enforcement. In both episodes, things went into complete disarray. And in both episodes  she gets a kick out of it. Where the hell were the guards by the way.....

 

Anyway, there are many many many MANY other ways to show how "laid back and fun" Celestia can be without risking the lives of ponies or ruining an elegant celebration that many look forward to.

 

And other than what I've said..no I don't disagree with you entirely. In fact, the title literally says "Incompetent rulers = a show" so it obviously implies that the only reason anyone with high power or authority lack effectiveness is because it helps the plot go on. And last time I checked, the characters doesn't make the plots or write the show so......xD not sure why the hell you'd think I was BLAMING the characters for being incompetent in the first place. The whole thing was me stating my opinion on what makes them incompetent  characters, but people  shouldn't get all DEFENSIVE over it because the writers make it happen so everything can be dependent on the underdog team. 

 

Celestia sucks at keeping her kingdom safe. The moment anyone says this it's immediate "NO SHE SIMPLY NEEDS HELP SOMETIMES!!!! LOOK WHAT SHE DID IN THE PAST AND STUFF!!! NOT EVERY RULER IS PERFECT!!! IT'S NOT HER FAULT!!!" 

 

and the whole time I'm like "calm the heck down". If she's incompetent, she's incompetent. If the word is really that offensive then fine....use another.....regardless...it is what it is. and it's WHY it is BECAUSE of the writers TO CREATE a show. That's all I'm saying. Is it bad writing? *shrugs* of course it is. That point you're bringing up isn't even worth a debate because it's pretty much something I'm already implying. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Silver Stream.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

If anything the cutie remark showed Celestia is competent

 

She defeated Nmm, Discord, and Chryssi in the same timeline, but she ended losing faster after each one

 

It showed she is competent,but human, or pony as the case may be

 

 

The problem is less celestia/writers and more the incompetent fans... People who see Celestia as some sort of God with limitless power...

[Silver Stream. 708]

Didn't the finale of season 5 more or less point out that if Celestia had like... Killed Sombra back in the day that they wouldn't have had that problem? Or if like she had KILLED Discord back in the day instead of imprison him they wouldn't have had an issue. Or like... Killed her sister when they had an issue she never would have had the chance to come back as Nightmare Moon? I mean yes, killing her sister would have been hard, but for the good of all of her subjects it would have been her duty.

 

Especially considering she didn't KNOW Twilight and friends would show up in the future to deal with these problems and those episodes more or less show that if they hadn't showed up to fix Celestia's inability to kill people trying to take over Equestria, that they would more or less be in crap city. I mean she could have killed a lot of people to protect her subjects but by choosing mercy again and again she puts Equestria in danger. Hell she chooses to send Discord to deal with Tirek which was definitely a stupid choice given his track record. All because she wants to show him "forgiveness". When the lives of your subjects are at stake, it's not exactly a time to make a statement, you should go with a safer bet instead of just hoping things will work themselves out.

 

There are several other instances as well where she could have helped but chose not to for more or less poorly explained reasoning such as in the Equestria Girls movie. "I can't go Twilight, because reasons." She couldn't lift a finger to help just because was the explanation we got.

 

Damn you brohoof button!!!! Can't......brohoof....more than once......crap!

If anything the cutie remark showed Celestia is competent

 

She defeated Nmm, Discord, and Chryssi in the same timeline, but she ended losing faster after each one

 

It showed she is competent,but human, or pony as the case may be

 

 

The problem is less celestia/writers and more the incompetent fans... People who see Celestia as some sort of God with limitless power...

 

Nooo if anything the Cutie Remark proves the whole point of Celestia being incompetent of the sake of Twilight and the others. Without their friendship existing in her life, she puts in more effort and is seemingly a victor IN A WAY depending on what theory you go for. Remember, the Celestia we saw was what she COULD have been

 

But again....bad writing.

 

The fans have nothing to do with it. Just because observations are made and things are pointed out doesn't make the fans incompetent. Personally, that doesn't even make sense to me. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Silver Stream.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Damn you brohoof button!!!! Can't......brohoof....more than once......crap!

 

 

Nooo if anything the Cutie Remark proves the whole point of Celestia being incompetent of the sake of Twilight and the others. Without their friendship existing in her life, she puts in more effort and is seemingly a victor IN A WAY depending on what theory you go for. Remember, the Celestia we saw was what she COULD have been

 

But again....bad writing.

 

The fans have nothing to do with it. Just because observations are made and things are pointed out doesn't make the fans incompetent. Personally, that doesn't even make sense to me.

 

Bad writing huh?

 

Yep, I quit, there are reasons I left these forums and it was due to over negativity, Its not so much an observation, its a total assumption, pretty much a guess.. Equestria seems to have a decent economy, good quality of life when villains aren't attacking, seemingly no racism, and good education

 

You wanna know who oversees that stuff

 

Celestia

[Silver Stream. 708]

Bad writing huh?

 

Yep, I quit, there are reasons I left these forums and it was due to over negativity, Its not so much an observation, its a total assumption, pretty much a guess.. Equestria seems to have a decent economy, good quality of life when villains aren't attacking, seemingly no racism, and good education

 

You wanna know who oversees that stuff

 

Celestia

 

Not honestly sure why the moment someone says "bad writing" it's automatically assumed to be a huge bash towards the show. Again, it's an observation as well as my opinion. There is no such thing as a flawless show. There is no such thing as a show free from a bad plot.....a bad episode....bad writing. Because those who create all of that are HUMAN....and is it not a fact that humans makes mistakes or make bad decisions? 

 

But they also make good ones...and some things are executed better than others. Some episodes are written better than others. Sometimes, continuity is at it's FINEST while other times bad writing is integrated instead.

 

I'm sorry if this whole discussion is a bother to you, but it's the main reason why I suggested for you to back out in the first place. The forum is not full of over negativity....you simply choose to pay attention ONLY to the negativity instead of engaging in more positive discussions that might have better appeal to you because they do in fact exist. Had you read carefully, my first post points out how Celestia is incompetent as well as OTHERS....and even later I mentioned my focus isn't really ALL on Celestia. And I also said it's NOT HER FAULT.....merely it's a needed thing for make plots happen. So the discussion really isn't one to bring negativity towards any character...it's more of me justifying their flaws. But I suppose your perspective from the beginning was to take this for another Celestia/MLP Show bashing thread.

 

But I have no desires to change your mind in how you feel towards the fandom because I'll agree it is overwhelming. Quit if you feel you have to....all I ask is to step away this discussion is that painful to engage in or makes you angry. 

Edited January 8, 2016 by Silver Stream.

[Sapphire Lightning 784]

​Celestia seems to take a motherly approach to ruling. She is over a thousand years old, much older than any of her subjects, and has the wisdom to let her subjects grow (mostly) on their own. She is also an excellent delegator, helping to bring those with talent up to their best and then relying on them to manage most of the issues by themselves. These are the hallmarks of a great leader. Leaders excel when they can help bring people/ponies effectively together. An ineffective leader is one that must control everything.

 

It should be no surprise that I would agree to be one of her loyal subjects any day. This coming from an American, who would normally just dump shiploads of tea in to the ocean rather than be ruled by a monarch. (or diarch as the case may be). 

[Silver Stream. 708]

​Celestia seems to take a motherly approach to ruling. She is over a thousand years old, much older than any of her subjects, and has the wisdom to let her subjects grow (mostly) on their own. She is also an excellent delegator, helping to bring those with talent up to their best and then relying on them to manage most of the issues by themselves. These are the hallmarks of a great leader. Leaders excel when they can help bring people/ponies effectively together. An ineffective leader is one that must control everything.

 

It should be no surprise that I would agree to be one of her loyal subjects any day. This coming from an American, who would normally just dump shiploads of tea in to the ocean rather than be ruled by a monarch. (or diarch as the case may be). 

 

Silver Stream., on 01 Jan 2016 - 1:26 PM, said:

Because I'm at work and in a good mood, I'll make this simple

 

 

She's a kind ruler with good intentions and does well to keep peace whenever there is no extreme threat. She's a good teacher who uses what other may see as "twisted methods" which have been proven to work especially with Twilight.

 

But she is an incompetent ruler nonetheless. But I don't blame too much on Celestial. Lets face it....it's for the sake of plots. In every show, the "good character" that is in high power of some sort is ALWAYS incompetent so that the plot can become interesting and DEPENDENT on the main protagonists.

 

 

I'll say further after work

 

 

 

I don't mock her as a bad ruler at all. Just an incompetent one when it comes to security and facing dangers  

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

Not honestly sure why the moment someone says "bad writing" it's automatically assumed to be a huge bash towards the show. Again, it's an observation as well as my opinion. There is no such thing as a flawless show. There is no such thing as a show free from a bad plot.....a bad episode....bad writing. Because those who create all of that are HUMAN....and is it not a fact that humans makes mistakes or make bad decisions? 

 

But they also make good ones...and some things are executed better than others. Some episodes are written better than others. Sometimes, continuity is at it's FINEST while other times bad writing is integrated instead.

 

I'm sorry if this whole discussion is a bother to you, but it's the main reason why I suggested for you to back out in the first place. The forum is not full of over negativity....you simply choose to pay attention ONLY to the negativity instead of engaging in more positive discussions that might have better appeal to you because they do in fact exist. Had you read carefully, my first post points out how Celestia is incompetent as well as OTHERS....and even later I mentioned my focus isn't really ALL on Celestia. And I also said it's NOT HER FAULT.....merely it's a needed thing for make plots happen. So the discussion really isn't one to bring negativity towards any character...it's more of me justifying their flaws. But I suppose your perspective from the beginning was to take this for another Celestia/MLP Show bashing thread.

 

But I have no desires to change your mind in how you feel towards the fandom because I'll agree it is overwhelming. Quit if you feel you have to....all I ask is to step away this discussion is that painful to engage in or makes you angry.

 

I always go to positive discussions, I still believe there is to much negativity here, don't care about the other rulers, that's why I am focusing on Celestia

[Silver Stream. 708]

I always go to positive discussions, I still believe there is to much negativity here, don't care about the other rulers, that's why I am focusing on Celestia

 

Believe what you want to believe, it's a fair thing. 

 

But I must be off to more important matters (work)

 

While I'm gone, guys please don't derail the topic. It's about your opinions on everything....not just Celestia and this is not a show bashing thread. GOTTA GO!

[Guest]

The other major issue is the story is full of holes due to design, so we are also debating something that was never clearly intended to be thought of this deep.

[Swifty 249]

If anything the cutie remark showed Celestia is competent

 

She defeated Nmm, Discord, and Chryssi in the same timeline, but she ended losing faster after each one

 

It showed she is competent,but human, or pony as the case may be

 

 

The problem is less celestia/writers and more the incompetent fans... People who see Celestia as some sort of God with limitless power...

Eh..what are you even talking about? What gives you the idea that Celestia defeated anyone in the different versions of Equestria in the Cutie Remark? Its just a forced drawn with NMM, Sombra and Discord. Thats why she always lost at the end, except Sombra who started a war. Chrysalis even never showed up in the show before.

 

The times of people thinking that Celestia has godlike powers are over for a long time, actually. And why is it the fault of the fans vor not wanting to see Celestia suck ass on every level compared to the other princesses? Your words make no sense.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Swifty