Far-Left Bronies Club (AKA The 1st Equestrial Workers' Party)

[Akemi Homura 7,681]

i think stalin is a pretty cool guy. eh kills his own people and doesn't afraid of anything.

[Aureity 3,055]

likewise

 

Communism is a failed system, as proven by many nations, most prominently the former Soviet Union. Communist states tend to be repressive, inhumane, and stagnant, and as such I hate the idea of Communism. I propose a better alternative, where effort is rewarded, and where society doesn't stagnate but rather develops towards the future. Embrace prosperity, embrace hope, embrace the future my comrades... embrace capitalism!

 

Capitalism is the bane of society. An economy in which the greedy are rewarded and continue getting wealthier. The ones who suffer are those who bend their backs to their tasks, and barely scrape enough to survive on. But eventually, the proletariat will rise up and overthrow their oppressors!

 

I cannot believe I am saying this...stupid dare thread.

[Whiteshade 1,427]

Capitalism is the bane of society. An economy in which the greedy are rewarded and continue getting wealthier. The ones who suffer are those who bend their backs to their tasks, and barely scrape enough to survive on. But eventually, the proletariat will rise up and overthrow their oppressors!

 

I cannot believe I am saying this...stupid dare thread.

 

I am a propagandist so I spew rhetoric if need be. Hell I even argued for capital punishment against children at one point...

 

1. Successful people are not "greedy" people

2. Capitalism actually has rewards, unlike communism. In communism, "prosperity" is achieved when EVERYONE becomes as poor as the proletariat.

3. Incomes are higher in capitalist states than communist ones. I am talking about per capita, not just total.

[Fizz. 1,078]

I am a propagandist so I spew rhetoric if need be. Hell I even argued for capital punishment against children at one point...

 

1. Successful people are not "greedy" people

2. Capitalism actually has rewards, unlike communism. In communism, "prosperity" is achieved when EVERYONE becomes as poor as the proletariat.

3. Incomes are higher in capitalist states than communist ones. I am talking about per capita, not just total.

 

As I said earlier: In capitalism, effort isn't rewarded, cheating, lying and bending the rules while corrupting officials, adhering as losely to enviromental and moral regulations as possible and taking out competition is rewarded with you being able to get the power to screw over your customers, enslave foreigners and make billions at it.

 

> Apple, Wal-Mart in a nutshell

 

 

Also, number 3 is hilarious, because there are what, 3 communist states? 1 of which was ravaged by America and is poor as it has always been, and 2 of which are ruled by insane dictators who are not truly communist.

 

Finally, as I said earlier, it would be nice of we worked together to develop a system that took the innovation of capitalism and the community ownership that communism promotes and combined them together.

[Strafe 596]

Hell I even argued for capital punishment against children at one point...

 

What?

[Whiteshade 1,427]

What?

 

Eeyup. Hang children for stealing.

I was assigned a pro-capital punishment position for a project, so I just went with it.

As I said earlier: In capitalism, effort isn't rewarded, cheating, lying and bending the rules while corrupting officials, adhering as loosely to environmental and moral regulations as possible and taking out competition is rewarded with you being able to get the power to screw over your customers, enslave foreigners and make billions at it.

 

> Apple, Wal-Mart in a nutshell

 

 

Also, number 3 is hilarious, because there are what, 3 communist states? 1 of which was ravaged by America and is poor as it has always been, and 2 of which are ruled by insane dictators who are not truly communist.

 

Finally, as I said earlier, it would be nice of we worked together to develop a system that took the innovation of capitalism and the community ownership that communism promotes and combined them together.

 

If you can't beat them, join them. Bottom line is, wealth is generated, the incompetence of government cannot be blamed on corporations, whereas in a communist economy growth is impossible. Capitalism is also responsible for every product you have, including what you're typing on, so be grateful. Capitalism works towards the future, so obviously it has no need to accommodate incompetent people, as that would just slow the system down to a halt like communism.

Also 3 communist states if 3 too many.

Also since I have to, I'll reject your proposal, communism does not belong in anything, and economic prosperity can be facilitated by only streamlining capitalism, which is actually what's happening for centuries now.

[Nah 3,182]

If its dangerous count me in!

 

The only party that should be allowed in the United Socialist Republic of Equestria! (USRE)

[Aureity 3,055]

Yes! The day is over!

I repent everything bad I said about capitalism.

[M14Brony 92]

I am rather amused at how apologists of capitalism continue to raise the Stalinist straw man, as they must continually shift the debate away from genuine Marxism in order to make it look like they have a point when they don't.

 

It is also rather amusing that a lot of bourgeois arguments hurled against communism were in fact refuted in the rather basic Communist Manifesto.

 

I apologize for keeping things short, as I am cutting back on typing to rest my hands and wrists (I seem to be developing symptoms of carpal tunnel syndrome).

[Mr. Wobbels 664]

Communistic, socialist or pure marxist?

 

Yes.

 

I am rather amused at how apologists of capitalism continue to raise the Stalinist straw man, as they must continually shift the debate away from genuine Marxism in order to make it look like they have a point when they don't.

 

IT'S BECAUSE STALINISM IS DEFINITELY MARXIST.

 

[E]conomic prosperity can be facilitated by only streamlining capitalism, which is actually what's happening for centuries now.

 

Basically socialism. Why do you think that workers' unions and welfare exist?

Edited May 11, 2012 by Mr. Wobbels

[roomforapony 285]

and 2 of which are ruled by insane dictators who are not truly communist.

THIS SO MUCH.

 

I have never understood why even though you explain to people what exactly communism is they insist that people like Stalin or these other awful dictators were communist. You can slap a label on anything but it doesn't make it what you call it.

[Strafe 596]

THIS SO MUCH.

 

I have never understood why even though you explain to people what exactly communism is they insist that people like Stalin or these other awful dictators were communist. You can slap a label on anything but it doesn't make it what you call it.

 

Because people eat up propaganda. If you were brought up in America, you would think that anything associated with communism is evil no matter what. In China, you would think that anything similar to capitalism would be evil. Basically, do research and actually find out what type of government can be considered evil.

[Mr. Wobbels 664]

If you were brought up in America, you would think that anything associated with communism is evil no matter what.

 

I would?

[Strafe 596]

I would?

 

Well, a lot of people.

[Starswirl the Trixie 975]

I want in, requesting the title "People's Commissariat for Pony".

 

And now for a more serious question: What will immediately replace the Capitalist/Democratic modr of production?

[Mr. Wobbels 664]

And now for a more serious question: What will immediately replace the Capitalist/Democratic modr of production?

 

Nothing replaces democracy in socialism unless that whole dictator thing happens.

 

The Bourgeois capitalist mode of production would be replaced by a system where the workers would have the ultimate authority over production and the people that they place in managerial positions.

 

http://www.socialistworld.net/doc/5554

 

Just like capitalism, nothing is agreed upon completely among socialists, but the general principles revolve around the workers owning the means of production, general public welfare through heavily graduated taxation (tax the rich, feed/house the poor, educate all), and complete social equality.

 

Also read this: http://www.marxists....ifesto/ch01.htm

This is pure Marxism, so don't take it all as what we believe, because I don't even agree with Marx on many issues. As Karl Marx himself said, "I am not a Marxist." By saying this, he meant that his ideas were subject to the change and interpretation by socialist thinkers as well as by the necessity of his ideas in future scenarios.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Mr. Wobbels

[Fizz. 1,078]

Also since I have to, I'll reject your proposal, communism does not belong in anything, and economic prosperity can be facilitated by only streamlining capitalism, which is actually what's happening for centuries now.

 

 

Riiight, rather than take the good of both sides and combine them, we must only do what we want. Well, two can play at that game.

 

America was founded on compromise, stop acting like you're right all the time.

[Whiteshade 1,427]

Riiight, rather than take the good of both sides and combine them, we must only do what we want. Well, two can play at that game.

 

America was founded on compromise, stop acting like you're right all the time.

 

America is rescinding the constitution, fuck your compromise

Liberals are cancer, North Carolina has the right idea here

 

Not sure if I'm still bound by the conditions, but I'll play this game anyways because ignorance amuses me

[Cain 24]

Yes, let's create a 'party' based on political ideals that never pan out as intended and usually end up in a totalitarian dictatorship with huge poverty and a dying economy!

 

I'm not saying communism is evil, just that it doesn't work.

 

This looks to be entertaining, though.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Cain

[Fizz. 1,078]

America is rescinding the constitution, fuck your compromise

Liberals are cancer, North Carolina has the right idea here

 

Not sure if I'm still bound by the conditions, but I'll play this game anyways because ignorance amuses me

 

For a second I thought you were serious with the cancer part. I was like "wut".

 

Aside from that ignorance part, saying that the idea of taking the good from separate ideas and combining them together as a nation rather than bickering like children and slinging mud while screaming "My policy!" is most obviously ignorant.

 

Now c'mon over here and give me a hug whiteshade. :3

[Whiteshade 1,427]

For a second I thought you were serious with the cancer part. I was like "wut".

 

Aside from that ignorance part, saying that the idea of taking the good from separate ideas and combining them together as a nation rather than bickering like children and slinging mud while screaming "My policy!" is most obviously ignorant.

 

Now c'mon over here and give me a hug whiteshade. :3

 

I'm against homosexual behavior, but ok :3

*hugs*

 

 

Yes, let's create a 'party' based on political ideals that never pan out as intended and usually end up in a totalitarian dictatorship with huge poverty and a dying economy!

 

I'm not saying communism is evil, just that it doesn't work.

 

This looks to be entertaining, though.

 

Nothing works in the long run, governments need to be changed consistently, through nonviolent/violent means

Also Iron Law of Oligarchy applies for every government, regardless of ideology or system

Edited May 12, 2012 by Whiteshade

[Fizz. 1,078]

I'm against homosexual behavior, but ok :3

*hugs*

 

says Mr. IMightBeBisexual

 

*slips tongue in mouth*

[Whiteshade 1,427]

says Mr. IMightBeBisexual

 

*slips tongue in mouth*

 

My my, you caught me being hypocritical, what is my punishment, o officer of the internet police?

[Fizz. 1,078]

My my, you caught me being hypocritical, what is my punishment, o officer of the internet police?

 

 

You must hop on one foot the complete distance of the Brooklyn Bridge....twice.

[Starswirl the Trixie 975]

I can't believe I was the first person to think of "People's Commissairy for Pony"...

Nothing replaces democracy in socialism unless that whole dictator thing happens.

 

The Bourgeois capitalist mode of production would be replaced by a system where the workers would have the ultimate authority over production and the people that they place in managerial positions.

 

http://www.socialistworld.net/doc/5554

 

Just like capitalism, nothing is agreed upon completely among socialists, but the general principles revolve around the workers owning the means of production, general public welfare through heavily graduated taxation (tax the rich, feed/house the poor, educate all), and complete social equality.

 

Also read this: http://www.marxists....ifesto/ch01.htm

This is pure Marxism, so don't take it all as what we believe, because I don't even agree with Marx on many issues. As Karl Marx himself said, "I am not a Marxist." By saying this, he meant that his ideas were subject to the change and interpretation by socialist thinkers as well as by the necessity of his ideas in future scenarios.

 

I take a more skeptical view towards the future. Firstly, I would say that democracy, in its modern form, is part of the superstructure built on today's capitalist base. And just as a structure will collapse when the foundation is destroyed, I must believe that democracy will crumble shortly after capitalism does, just in the same way that medieval monarchy fell within decades (with the exception of Russia) of the death of feudalism.

 

Secondly, while this is not necessarily what Marx (or you) argued, I have trouble with the idea of a classless society. How can such a society be reconciled with Conflict Theory? Even ignoring that, I must ask what mode of production will follow "Socialism" (whatever it means these days)? I utterly reject utopianism, and a Communist mode of production would not be viable in the long term due to entropy. Everyone on this forum knows quite well what is necessary for a society and system of governance to remain stable and harmonious over the course of centuries, and unfortunately we probably will never have the technology (or the magic) to completely control the weather, the growth of plants, and the movement of celestial bodies.

 

In addition, here are Marx/Engels' criteria for what changes will be made in a socialist state. This is a direct excerpt from Chapter Two of the Communist Manifesto:

 

"1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.

10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c, &c."

 

Many of these changes were clearly written for a 19th century capitalism; in the contemporary era even the term "means of production" gets very confusing. Finally, too often we say that greatly reformed capitalism is socialism. No, it is not; one cannot reform a mode of production to become a completely new one, the old mode must be thrown out entirely. Sweden, for instance, is not socialist; it is simply a capitalist welfare state.

_____

 

TL;DR version: I don't what what's going to happen.