Is there a mary sue dwelling in the show?

[Applejacket 185]

So i was wondering the other day; There is plenty of talk about OCs being Mary-sues, but what about actual canon ponies? For me, i look at Fluttershy, Starlight, Rainbow Dash and Cadance when it comes to Mary-sues.

 

Also, when people call Luna a mary sue, i get confused. Surely, being jealous and thus punished makes her the opposite of that?

 

I'd like to hear what you guys think.

[Mothra 679]

I can see why Starlight could be one, but Fluttershy Rainbow dash and cadance? Dunno how they are. I always thought Discord was one myself

Edited November 4, 2016 by Magistrate Mothra

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

Mary Sue is just becoming a term to describe any character someone does not like so that they can justify disliking them. The fact that you get a dozen people in a forum and each one has a different definition or opinion of what it means to be one, just cements that.

 

I have on this forum and others seen every member of the Mane 6 called a Mary Sue at one time or another. Then you have the other princesses, Starlight, Discord, Trixie or virtually any character of any substance. I hate Zephyr Breeze along with many others, you can bet if he started getting lots of episodes he would start getting called that, just because it is a simple go to term to throw out there.

 

So no, I don't think any of the characters i the show are Sues because none of them are perfect... they all have flaws, some of them being significantly flawed.

[PiratePony 8,476]

@@Applejacket, this belongs in show discussion, so I'm moving it over there.

[Applejacket 185]

@PiratePony okay, sure

 

@GrimGrimore i definitely have my reasons for naming the alleged ponies as many sues. I love Cad, why would i call her one if she wasn't?

[EmeraldStar04 250]

There is a mary sue in the show. Her name is Starlight Glimmer.

 

Luna was a possible sue at first but writers fixed her. Now she's cool.

Mary Sue is just becoming a term to describe any character someone does not like so that they can justify disliking them. The fact that you get a dozen people in a forum and each one has a different definition or opinion of what it means to be one, just cements that.

 

I have on this forum and others seen every member of the Mane 6 called a Mary Sue at one time or another. Then you have the other princesses, Starlight, Discord, Trixie or virtually any character of any substance. I hate Zephyr Breeze along with many others, you can bet if he started getting lots of episodes he would start getting called that, just because it is a simple go to term to throw out there.

 

So no, I don't think any of the characters i the show are Sues because none of them are perfect... they all have flaws, some of them being significantly flawed.

People only use Mary Sue like that because they're too ignorant to know the actual meaning, which SG fits like a glove.

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

Mary Sue's are characters that are perfect. Rainbow Dash has shown to be at times arrogant, over-confident, lazy, and insecure. Fluttershy has had crippling social anxiety, at times been a complete doormat, and at other times has had some serious anger issues. Starlight is overly-manipulative, relies too much on her magic, has been shown to be anxious and insecure as well, etc...

 

 How can these characters be called Mary Sue's? They have flaws, they've made mistakes, they've failed.

[Connie 320]

Why is the term "Mary Sue" becoming so popular on here? I mean, why are y'all tossing this thing around so much? Idgi. I don't think there are any Mary Sues in FiM IMO. Even if there were I don't really see what the big deal is.

[Cleverclover 1,526]

 

 

For me, i look at Fluttershy, Starlight, Rainbow Dash and Cadance when it comes to Mary-sues.

 

Sorry, but I don't think you're quite aware of what constitutes a Mary Sue. 

 

A Mary Sue is someone who has a flawless personality, rarely makes mistakes, and is so unbelievably talented that they are not challenged by anything, no matter how difficult. 

 

That certainly does not describe any of those four in the slightest. In fact, I don't believe I've ever seen anyone refer to Fluttershy or Dash as a Mary Sue before. 

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

There is a mary sue in the show. Her name is Starlight Glimmer.

 

Luna was a possible sue at first but writers fixed her. Now she's cool.

 

People only use Mary Sue like that because they're too ignorant to know the actual meaning, which SG fits like a glove.

 

Says you and you alone. You don't like her, Just admit it and quit throwing make believe terms at her. It just looks silly.

[Applejacket 185]

Okay, so you've all justified those three, but what about Cadence? She always seems to have too much of a perfect... well, everything. Also, @EmeraldStar04 i completely agree. And i'm not throwing this word around, this is simply speculation.

[EmeraldStar04 250]

Says you and you alone. You don't like her, Just admit it and quit throwing make believe terms at her. It just looks silly.

Make believe terms? Mary Sue is a real term, whether you or the other Starlight fans or these weird Rainbow Dash haters know what it means or not.

 

Also, you look so silly right now.

[BastementSparkle 20,328]

 

 

but what about Cadence? She always seems to have too much of a perfect... well, everything.

 

Of the characters you've mentioned, she's the one I'd have the hardest time defending. She's a side character with very little development, she has a perfect husband, a perfect castle and kingdom, a perfect baby...

 

 She doesn't really have any extensive flaws as far as we've seen, but she kind of doesn't have any real strengths either, outside of her love powers. She was thrown in Tartarus with the other Princesses, and captured by Chrysalis twice, so she's not some unbeatable character...

 

 I'd say Cadance is more underdeveloped than anything, unless you count the comics in which she was shown to have some insecurities in her Friends Forever issue with Twilight, but that's about it. 

 

 

Make believe terms? Mary Sue is a real term, whether you or the other Starlight fans or these weird Rainbow Dash haters know what it means or not.

Also, you look so silly right now.

 

Mary Sue is a real term, but it doesn't apply to Starlight. She has too many crippling personality flaws for it to apply to her, she's not even close to perfect enough.

 

 If you dislike her, that's okay. There are plenty of reasons you can dislike her without having to mislabel her a Mary Sue.

[Untitled Goose Q 5,137]

No.

 

The term 'Mary Sue' applies, despite constant misuse, to characters in fanfiction be they original characters or altered version of canon characters. Any character in the show cannot be a Mary Sue.

 

A better term to use would be Canon Sue.

 

As already said, the closest we have to a Canon Sue is Cadence, but due to not having much screen time, we don't really see enough of her for her to be a Canon Sue.

[EmeraldStar04 250]

No.

 

The term 'Mary Sue' applies, despite constant misuse, to characters in fanfiction be they original characters or altered version of canon characters. Any character in the show cannot be a Mary Sue.

 

A better term to use would be Canon Sue.

 

As already said, the closest we have to a Canon Sue is Cadence, but due to not having much screen time, we don't really see enough of her for her to be a Canon Sue.

Alrighty then, Captain Semantics, Starlight Glimmer is a Canon Sue.

[cmarston1 5,959]

Here goes the billionth thread asking whether or not a character is a Mary Sue or not. By the time Discord was called one, I kinda stopped taking this criticism seriously.

[Untitled Goose Q 5,137]

Alrighty then, Captain Semantics, Starlight Glimmer is a Canon Sue.

Sure, if you want to use mislabel Starlight. As said above, Starlight has too many flaws to be accurately labeled as any form of Sue.

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

Make believe terms? Mary Sue is a real term, whether you or the other Starlight fans or these weird Rainbow Dash haters know what it means or not.

 

Also, you look so silly right now.

 

Yes, it's a make believe term. Just like a whole host of other internet gobbledygook. There is a whole slew of internet meme terms and words out there created by anyone with access to an internet connection and enough followers to latch on to whatever they say and get a new slang sensation started. It does not in any way make it real. It has a whole host of definitions and even the people using it can't agree on what it ultimately means... because it has no absolute meaning outside of a bunch of fans and anti-fans of whatever media it is being used within who throw it around in any way they chose to.

 

Deal with it.

 

The very fact you are getting all salty (look another one!) tells me you don't have any solid definition of what a Sue is even to yourself and are just throwing words out there to justify your hatred for a character that no one actually cares whether you like them or not. You are just piggy backing on the same tired path dozens of other people have already tread On EQD. So yeah, unoriginal and silly.

 

 

 

Okay, so you've all justified those three, but what about Cadence? She always seems to have too much of a perfect... well, everything.

 

What exactly is Cadence perfect at? She is perfect at getting captured by changelings I do admit... And she has done a few things of note just like every other major character in this show... but that hardly makes her perfect at anything. Also i don't see her pretty much single-handedly saving everyone all by her lonesome with her super OP powers... she only stopped Chrysalis with the power of Shining Armor and their shared love... and all she did was basically fly to stop Sombra... RD could have pulled that off to just as easily. In fact you could argue she is rather dumb since she just has to hear a catchy ditty to decide to hand over her baby to a possibly hostile creature her whole empire was just moments before up in arms to capture. I mean Spike is a hero and all, but wouldn't some conversions and discussions amongst themselves have been justified before throwing your kid at something that by all the knowledge you have are pure evil?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Cadence just fine, I just have not seen her do anything I word term perfect or justifiable to the Sue term.

[EmeraldStar04 250]

Sure, if you want to use mislabel Starlight. As said above, Starlight has too many flaws to be accurately labeled as any form of Sue.

Sigh. A Parody Sue is the unreasonably perfect sue.

 

A Sue is defined by how the world treats her. She's earned tartarus several times over and been easily forgiven each time.

Yes, it's a make believe term. Just like a whole host of other internet gobbledygook. There is a whole slew of internet meme terms and words out there created by anyone with access to an internet connection and enough followers to latch on to whatever they say and get a new slang sensation started. It does not in any way make it real. It has a whole host of definitions and even the people using it can't agree on what it ultimately means... because it has no absolute meaning outside of a bunch of fans and anti-fans of whatever media it is being used within who throw it around in any way they chose to.

 

Deal with it.

 

The very fact you are getting all salty (look another one!) tells me you don't have any solid definition of what a Sue is even to yourself and are just throwing words out there to justify your hatred for a character that no one actually cares whether you like them or not. You are just piggy backing on the same tired path dozens of other people have already tread On EQD. So yeah, unoriginal and silly.

 

...why are you like this. Why.

 

Are you trolling me? Is that it?

[Vulcan 3,255]

Randi once made a Mary Sue Test

 

and Discord scored higher than any other Character from any fictional universe I've tested...and I've tested quite a few of the big ones... o-o

[Megas 27,765]

>Fluttershy, Rainbow Dash, Cadance

>Mary Sue

 

[Hazard Time 1,127]

A Sue is defined by how the world treats her. She's earned tartarus several times over and been easily forgiven each time.

 

Normally, I would ask you what you think a Mary Sue is, but according to TV Tropes, "What that character type [Mary Sue] is, exactly, differs wildly from circle to circle, and often from person to person".  However, the definition you've provided seems to be "a character who gets away with doing terrible things with only a minor slap on the wrist".  Going by this definition, wouldn't there be a whole lot more Mary Sues in the show than just Starlight?

• After Twilight casted her "Want It, Need It" spell on her stuffed animal doll (can't remember it's name) and caused the entire population of Ponyville to riot and fight over it, Celestia still let her off the leash with barely any sort of punishment (there was something, but again, it was so minor, I can't remember).
• Or after everything Discord did?
• Let's also not forget how Luna's self-flagellation nearly caused a destruction of reality and yet everyone was on board with forgiving her.

MLP is about friendship and growth.  We do see harsh punishments with characters such as Tirek and Lightning Dust, but that's only because they refused to see that what they were doing was wrong and make the changes to become a better person.  Starlight, on the other hand, did.  Same with Luna, and Discord, and Twilight.  Mary Sues never grow, they never develop, they never fail.  Starlight has done all three of these things, so unless you can provide further evidence that Starlight is a Mary Sue, I'm inclined to side with @@GrimGrimoire.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Hazard Time

[ChB 18,562]

After looking all over the web, it seems to me that there is no official, much less a clear-cut, definition of a Mary Sue. Some of those definitions even appear contradictory. I guess all I could do now is just accept the fact that everyone is entitled to their own opinion of what a Mary Sue is, and just appreciate the characters for what they are.

 

So, to answer the OP, I don't know if any ponies in FIM are Mary Sues, and even if there are, they are evidently not bad enough for me to be annoyed by them. 

 

On a side note, one Youtube video introduced me to an infamous "Mary Sue" fanfic, called "My Immortal." I listened to the first few chapters of it, and got a good laugh.

Edited November 4, 2016 by ChB

[Steve Piranha 29,432]

No.

 

The term 'Mary Sue' applies, despite constant misuse, to characters in fanfiction be they original characters or altered version of canon characters. Any character in the show cannot be a Mary Sue.

 

A better term to use would be Canon Sue.

 

As already said, the closest we have to a Canon Sue is Cadence, but due to not having much screen time, we don't really see enough of her for her to be a Canon Sue.

Oh yeah, here it is 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CanonSue

 

About canon sue: I agree with many, Cadance is the CLOSEST we got for canon sue in FiM, or at least personality-wise. from her strength-standpoint, she's clearly the weakest fighter out of the princesses, not to mention that she's a secondary character which also saves her from being a full-fledged canon sue  

 

Good thing we don't have anything like Fairly Odd Parent's Chloe   

[Merrypaws 71]

If you start splitting hairs, many characters that are the main characters of their own series have qualities that are, by some definition, Mary Sue-like.

 

They might have some big epic destiny, complete with a prophecy and all the bells and whistles. They may have amazing, never-before-seen abilities, unique physical features, turn out to be long lost heirs to ancient royalty, be the only one that is immune to a curse or plague that has fallen over the kingdom... The list is endless.

 

But the point is, many of these things make for a good premise for a story. There needs to be something unusual about a character to make them worthy of telling a story about. it's only when this 'uniqueness' goes over the top that it becomes a bad thing.