S07:E14 - Fame and Misfortune

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

I really liked this episode.

Though as much as I love GlimGlam her inclusion was pointless. She clearly replaces the role that Spike originally served, and to be honest having Spike be in the episdoe would have made for sense. He was actually there during most of the friendship lessons. Hell he even wrote some himself.

Also the jokes about Fluttershy don't work as well anymore. I mean I'm sure originnaly Fluttershy had some big freak out like would have had in season one or two, but now she can just calmly tell the ponies to leave her alone. 

I also think it's great how Applejack and Rarity are sort of reversed. Were normally Rarity would be getting a lot of praise, but not everyone hates her. And Applejack gets a lot of attention but she hates it.

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

24 minutes ago, AlexanderThrond said:

Kinda ruins the whole cute aesthetic of the show when they conjure up something really ugly. 

It not even close to Twilight's in Lesson Zero  and i love ponies making wierd faces... 

[Frostgage 7,975]

Oh my this episode was too hilarious. I love this fandom so much xD

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

6 minutes ago, Tilgoreth said:

I love GlimGlam her inclusion was pointless.

Yeah, i agree. Spike should be in this ep, because he is a part of this journal too. Hum.... GlimGlam didnt even join the hugging make her deseperate from mane 6. However, think on the bright side, Spike didnt get bullied in this, let that poor guys alone (you know how fandom reacts to Spike in Season 1,2,3,4 RIGHT!?)

Starlight can be a perfect agent for Twilight because her profile is SECRET.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Lambdadelta

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

1 minute ago, Lambdadelta said:

Yeah, i agree. Spike should be in this ep, because he is a part of this journal too. Hum.... GlimGlam didnt even join the hugging make her deseperate from mane 6.

Not sure why they chagned it. Larson obviously didn't include Glimmer because this was way back before she was even reformed. And the scene were Glimmer stays to comfort Rarity makes more sense if you put Spike in there instead. It's also not like they can say "oh he was somewhere else when this happend". I mean there is a upcoming Spike episode, which takes place in Ponyville. So unless he just happend to ignore all the drama surronding the mane six that wouldn't make any sense.

[Noire Panzer 3,526]

Writers take a jab at the community. Hilarity ensues.

 

 

[KH7672 1,604]

3 minutes ago, Tilgoreth said:

Not sure why they chagned it. Larson obviously didn't include Glimmer because this was way back before she was even reformed. And the scene were Glimmer stays to comfort Rarity makes more sense if you put Spike in there instead. It's also not like they can say "oh he was somewhere else when this happend". I mean there is a upcoming Spike episode, which takes place in Ponyville. So unless he just happend to ignore all the drama surronding the mane six that wouldn't make any sense.

Just going to bump my own script change that could have explained Spike's absence without seeming too out of character for him. See what you think?

9 hours ago, KH7672 said:

[Starlight, Twilight and Spike experience the Fillydelphia fans and Twilight expresses dislike]

Spike: Don't worry Twilight you'll get used to it, trust me.

Random Ponies: There he is!

Sipke: Ah look at my new fans already. And who should I write this out to?

Pony: Actually I'm wondering why you think you're so useless I mean look at all this stuff you do what's wrong with you!

Spike: I...uh..well

Pony: Well no more we're here to make you feel special in fact I could your help for [insert task here]

Pony: Oh me too there's so many things you could do for me and I'd really appreciate it! [Glares at Twilight]

[Ponies begin closing in as he back away]

Twilight: Spike, where are you going?

Spike: Anywhere but here, if you girls need me I'll be hiding in the castle. Don't come unless you're alone!

[He runs off as his "fans" give chase]

Then just bring him back for the end hug. There we go our dragon friend is properly accounted for! 

 

[Frostgage 7,975]

2 minutes ago, Noire Panzer said:

Writers take a jab at the community. Hilarity ensues.

 

 

This was the one episode that never ends

[Noire Panzer 3,526]

Just now, Frostgage said:

This was the one episode that never ends

Won't stop until Season 10....*renewed until Season 2,000* Oh...

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

5 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

Just going to bump my own script change that could have explained Spike's absence without seeming too out of character for him. See what you think?

 

That would work. Not sure why Glimmer was chosen over Spike though.  She's already had significant roles in four episodes so far. And we know she's getting an episode with Trixie later this season. So it's not like they had to account for her presence. It's fine, it doesn't run the episode. But almost all of the interactions make for sense with Spike instead of Glimmer. 

[KH7672 1,604]

Just now, Tilgoreth said:

That would work. Not sure why Glimmer was chosen over Spike though.  She's already had significant roles in four episodes so far. And we know she's getting an episode with Trixie later this season. So it's not like they had to account for her presence. It's fine, it doesn't run the episode. But almost all of the interactions make for sense with Spike instead of Glimmer. 

No argument there if the development history for this episode wasn't so known this could have fueled that Starity ship with that devotion to her.

As for Starlight being there, I mean like I showed in the rewrite he would be mobbed as well. Starlight is completely invisible in the eyes of the book fans allowing her to object to their behaviors easier.

[Thrond 3,263]

40 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

And that is exactly where this criticism is coming from. While people are seeing this as a direct parallel to the fandom today, it's not, in universe this is the fandom after Season 4 after the season of the friendship journal. These ponies are drawing their own conclusions of the main six by just reading about a part of their life not actually realizing their life has changed (Hence the criticism on Fluttershy and the jabs at Rarity who in my opinion didn't really shine really well until Season 5.) It's unknown if it was just Season 4 lessons or previous ones but this highlights the issue of formulating opinions on characters without getting their entire storyline. Literally here's what the townsponies were "Hey, new fans here's this show but I'm only going to show you episodes from Season 4 (or maybe earlier) now give your opinion on these characters, go!"

That's kinda strange. As was pointed out in the episode, haven't these ponies personally known the mane six for a long time now? 

Plus, I don't think forming an opinion on a character without seeing the entire show is entirely invalid, because at one point that was all the story which was available. Plus, how would someone watching a show know that this character knows better? That's why I find the parallels between ponies reacting to the journal and people reacting to the show kinda weird. 

 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

1 minute ago, KH7672 said:

Starlight is completely invisible in the eyes of the book fans allowing her to object to their behaviors easier.

Her advantage is her clean proflie  Spike was heavily criticized in Season 1,2,3 and 4, he will become the ultimate butt monkey if he appear in this ep, he cant help anyone because he will be victim himself because of those "Bad Spike episodes". Spike received so much respects in S6, I dont think Spike fan like to see himself being tortured RIGHT!? 

[Tilgoreth 1,915]

7 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

No argument there if the development history for this episode wasn't so known this could have fueled that Starity ship with that devotion to her.

As for Starlight being there, I mean like I showed in the rewrite he would be mobbed as well. Starlight is completely invisible in the eyes of the book fans allowing her to object to their behaviors easier.

I don't know maybe Cathy Weseluck was sick that day so she couldn't record her lines.   

[Thrond 3,263]

40 minutes ago, Lambdadelta said:

It not even close to Twilight's in Lesson Zero  and i love ponies making wierd faces... 

Those faces were fairly strange as well. Guess it's random which faces one will find funny. 

[Ginger Ale 723]

Greetings everypony!

I just watched the episode Fame and Misfortune and I found Rarity's reactions really funny.

Apart from it, do you realize guys, if we were sent to Ponyville as ponies on these days, we would react to them the same and Mane 6 would be hiding from us? Also, I don't think we would say mean things for Rarity and Fluttershy.

Just imagine all the brony herd, surrounding Twilight's castle in their OC ponies and arguing which pony from Mane 6 is the best.

Wouldn't you think that would happen? When I watch the episode although not all bronies judge book from it's cover, there would still be a fandom and haters attacking to each pony that would make them hide in Twilight's castle. What are your thoughts?

Edited August 13, 2017 by Ginger Ale

[FlareGun45 2,221]

I really think Spike was originally in this episode, but he was replaced with Starlight so that she can act positively to the Mane Six, probably to make up for Every Little Thing She Does. I mean I knew him being absent in here felt suspicious! Hope they're gonna make up for that later this season.

[Toon4Thought 274]

I don't even know what to think about this episode. There is so much I really like, but there's just as much that bothers me to extents that very few other eps have matched.

I think my main problem is that the tone, at least the way I see it, seems to almost directly go against the charm of the show. For the most part, the entire town seems very unusually bitter and mean, and it's so phenomenally jarring that it's quite honestly uncomfortable. The jabs at obsessed parts of the fandom don't annoy me at all, since it's clear they are referring specifically to those that go just as over the top, but their attitudes in general do annoy me as a viewer.

In fact, a lot of this ep is a pretty dang big downer. Note that they don't take the "build up transition" route they usually use with these kinds of stories; here, Twilight thinking publishing the journal is a good idea is pretty much immediately shot down, with them getting out of hoof extremely early on. So, the majority of this ep is basically just seeing the Mane 6 get unfairly attacked or harassed. Sure, we find out at the end that the two fillies that were fighting at the beginning benefited from their copies of the journal, and to be fair it definitely succeeds at ending the ep on a relatively sweet note, but it just isn't enough to offset the rest for me.

Now, with all that in mind, there's also a lot to like. The song itself was nice, catchy, and even fairly clever, and it helps that it pretty much added a lot of MLP charm in a section that had very, very little of that - which makes it bar none the highlight of the episode. I also really like Starlight's role in this, with her providing some good support for Twilight and getting a lot of the episode's better lines (even if a lot of her lines sound eerily like things Spike would say; in fact, considering MA Larson's name is on this, some people - myself included - get the impression this role was originally meant for Spike). Some of the Mane 6's freakouts, especially Rarity's, were pretty entertaining too - even if their inceptions were, as I said, a little too much for my tastes.

Even the idea of Twilight making the friendship lessons public sounds like a really neat, interesting, and promising concept. It's just that it was pushed too extreme too quickly IMO, which severely harms the episode for me. It's hard to tell just how different MA Larson's original vision would have been, since they clearly at least changed enough to throw Starlight in there. However, looking at the final product I can very much see why he wasn't very happy with how this idea turned out since it was honestly much more pessimistic than even his more dramatic and dark entries in the series. And, unfortunately, this persists throughout so much of the episode I just can't look past it. The good stuff we did that does make me really want to like the entire episode, but I just don't think it's worth sitting through all of the mean-spirited stuff. Can't fault them for trying, though.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Toon4Thought

[Jeric 46,851]

1 hour ago, AlexanderThrond said:

That's kinda strange. As was pointed out in the episode, haven't these ponies personally known the mane six for a long time now? 

This is actually one of the flaws in the episode that I think bugged me the most. It would have made more sense if it was just the tourists and fillies and colts that got caught up in the Journal craze. 

It did give us a funny Pinkie Pie line at least. 

 

Some other thoughts

I do like this episode more than I really should because it did have some glaring continuation and logical goofs here and there, but the time smiling and laughing at it can't be ignored. I will also add that even though the complaints about the characters may be outdated ... you still see the odd fan bring them up as reasons for not liking a character. 

I wasn't as annoyed with the Starlight replacing Spike bit until I realized that his fondness for Rarity actually would serves a good purpose here. At the same time some have wanted to see Starlight show some direct connection with the other characters and this was her first time she showed emotional support for Rarity ... so it's not a complete waste all the same. 

Still enjoyed the hell out of it, but yeah it did have some issues I can't ignore. It was good enough. 

[Toon4Thought 274]

7 minutes ago, Jeric said:

I wasn't as annoyed with the Starlight replacing Spike bit until I realized that his fondness for Rarity actually would serves a good purpose here. At the same time some have wanted to see Starlight show some direct connection with the other characters and this was her first time she showed emotional support for Rarity ... so it's not a complete waste all the same.

I believe that having Starlight in that position was for the better in the grand scheme of things, for the reason you brought up regarding Rarity and the fact she really hasn't gotten as many side roles as she probably should. Granted, it is weird to hear her say things that would sound a little more at home with Spike (even the deliveries seem oddly similar), but still, she does get a lot of the better lines of the ep anyway, many of which were definitely written specifically for her.

Edited August 13, 2017 by Toon4Thought

[ShootingStar159 2,156]

27 minutes ago, MegaSean45 said:

I really think Spike was originally in this episode, but he was replaced with Starlight so that she can act positively to the Mane Six, probably to make up for Every Little Thing She Does. I mean I knew him being absent in here felt suspicious! Hope they're gonna make up for that later this season.

That's my guess, they're trying to make up for the bizarre lack of Starlight in season six by including her in episodes focused on the main six that paint her in a more positive light. I know some people will grown and moan over that, but they used Starlight and her character well. Honestly, the fact they used Starlight instead probably saved them some time, as I would have been pretty upset if Spike was in the episode and there weren't any meta jokes about him. One thing I've noticed this season is that the episodes are usually down to the wire, barely working within the time constraints. It hasn't caused any unacceptable problems yet, but it is noticeable.

[FlareGun45 2,221]

Just now, ShootingStar159 said:

That's my guess, they're trying to make up for the bizarre lack of Starlight in season six by including her in episodes focused on the main six that paint her in a more positive light. I know some people will grown and moan over that, but they used Starlight and her character well. Honestly, the fact they used Starlight instead probably saved them some time, as I would have been pretty upset if Spike was in the episode and there weren't any meta jokes about him. One thing I've noticed this season is that the episodes are usually down to the wire, barely working within the time constraints. It hasn't caused any unacceptable problems yet, but it is noticeable.

It's really nice to see Starlight get more attention and respect! But now Spike's gonna have this problem if they don't make up for that later this season. I know he's got Triple Threat, but let that not be the only thing he's got! There's still To Change a Changeling, Isn't the Mane Thing About You, and Once Upon a Zeppelin for him to get love at, and Uncommon Bond is a likely candidate for an episode for him. So as long as it doesn't turn out to be another season 5 for him, everything should be okay!

[King of Snake 54]

On 8/13/2017 at 2:47 AM, AlexanderThrond said:

This is mostly a nitpick, but I was a little bothered by the weird face Rarity made when she was despairing that everyone was cancelling her orders. I know weird faces help make the show visually interesting, but I wish the animators and storyboard artists would tone it down sometimes. Kinda ruins the whole cute aesthetic of the show when they conjure up something really ugly. 

I didn't mind it. These kinds of crazy faces turn up frequently in MLP and they're part of the show's appeal. The face you mentioned was certainly in character for Rarity and her drama queen personality. Though I must admit, when I saw it in the thumbnail for the episode on Youtube I wondered if it was a piece of fan art.

Edited August 14, 2017 by King of Snake

[Thrond 3,263]

1 minute ago, King of Snake said:

I didn't mind it. These kinds of crazy faces turn up frequently in MLP and they're part of the show's appeal. The face you mentioned was certainly in character for rarity and her drama queen personality. Though I must admit, when I saw it in the thumbnail for the episode on Youtube I wondered if it was a piece of fan art.

I've felt like the show goes too far sometimes for a while now. Sometimes it feels like the artists are just being self-indulgent. Though as I said before, it's probably arbitrary where I draw the line. 

Edited August 13, 2017 by AlexanderThrond

[Steve Piranha 29,421]

1 hour ago, Tilgoreth said:

That would work. Not sure why Glimmer was chosen over Spike though.  She's already had significant roles in four episodes so far. And we know she's getting an episode with Trixie later this season. So it's not like they had to account for her presence. It's fine, it doesn't run the episode. But almost all of the interactions make for sense with Spike instead of Glimmer. 

Except that Spike would've been too busy handling his own issues with rabid ponies instead