S02:E21 - Dragon Quest

[cuteycindyhoney 13,307]

This episode had some subtle Anne McCaffery Dragonriders of Pern elements. When the mane six was first watching the dragon migration, I almost fell out of my chair. I pulled out my magnifying glass and kept rolling it back to look. I thought I saw something white shoot by, moving faster then the other dragons. YES! A White Dragon! In all of the history of the planet Pern, there was only one white dragon. His name is Ruth. He's the dragon who always knows when he is! He's also smaller, and faster then the rest of his kind.

 

Then they went and spoiled it by having him be one of the teenage dragon JERKS!

 

Later, we get the what I though was a nice scene of a dragon impressing a phoenix upon it's hatching, much like the inhabitants of Pern impress Fire-lizards. Fire-lizards are they tiny creatures that original settlers of Pern used as the blueprint to create the mighty dragons that saved their world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Discovery Dream 592]

Spike, you are do adorable. i love you even more now. And Rarity loves him back now, so yay!

 

Who else thought this episode represented being a brony?

[Yellow Diamond 7,569]

When the phoenix father did this attack:

 

 

Any DBZ fans think of this?

 

 

Solar Flare!!

 

Apparently someone on youtube did, lol:

 

 

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.c...h?v=-rYnMFBfPDE

 

 

Yes! Almost immediately I thought of Dragon Ball. Too bad the dragons weren't Saiyans.

 

On another note, I did find it a bit funny that the teenage dragons made fun of Spike for his correspondence with Princess Celestia. I understand that dragons view themselves as superior to ponies and super tough and what not, but Celestia raises the sun. That's a bit like laughing at someone for being best friends with God.

[Radiance64 7,053]

Spike, you are do adorable. i love you even more now. And Rarity loves him back now, so yay! Who else thought this episode represented being a brony?

You know, I guess it kind of did in a way! I suppose you could call Spike a brony who lives in Equestria.

[Yellow Diamond 7,569]

You know, I guess it kind of did in a way! I suppose you could call Spike a brony who lives in Equestria.

 

He was officially accepted into the herd, so yeah.

[XMark 18]

Someone's going to use the dragon footage to make another MLP/Skyrim video on Youtube.

[Ethereal 32]

I thought this was a pretty decent episode, but honestly fell under my expectations. When I saw the words "dragon migration" and spike learning about himself, I expected a lot more information about the dragon life cycle, especially when Twilight remarked on how they know almost nothing about dragons, but all we really learned is that young dragons don't have wings yet. I cringed when I saw the teenage dragons acting like doosh bags, but I've seen worse. As a girl, i can't really relate to the whole 'proving yourself to the guys' and trying to show how strong you are, but i thought it was kind of nice when they accepted spike for surviving a belly flop. For being 'one of those' kinds of episodes where you try to get into the guy crowd, it wasn't too stereotypical. Spike didn't do anything really stupid or dangerous, at least not dangerous for a dragon, and he never gave up on who he really was just in order to 'fit in'. As for spike finding who he is, i was disappointed, as the only thing spike learned about himself is that he didn't want to be a jerk. I think we could have gotten a lot more out of this episode, but it wasn't too bad either. nice to see continuity in cranky doodle donkey appearing and Fluttershy being more assertive. It managed to be funny without relying on pinkie pie which is good.

[Tupin86 195]

Spike found out what the Mane Six already knew: He wasn't like other dragons, and he probably would never fit in with them like he did the ponies in Ponyville. He just had to figure that out for himself.

[Spanner 0]

Ethereal, it's sort of a bittersweet episode to be sure. We see the teenager bullies as real uncultured pains, but then there's always some elements of acceptance even in their belittling. It's sort of reminiscent of how guy teenage culture can be really confusing and ambiguous. Not to read too much into a kid's show but, the teenager dragons clearly knew that Spike wasn't strong enough to tail wrestle or win any of those contests. Rhetorical question; were they solely having him participate to ridicule him, or were they trying to introduce him to the group and allow him to participate? It could go either way.

 

I agree about the continuity, the episodes lately have been great on that. But I also feel like the episode felt short of expectations.

[Eenohay 318]

Yes! Almost immediately I thought of Dragon Ball. Too bad the dragons weren't Saiyans.

 

On another note, I did find it a bit funny that the teenage dragons made fun of Spike for his correspondence with Princess Celestia. I understand that dragons view themselves as superior to ponies and super tough and what not, but Celestia raises the sun. That's a bit like laughing at someone for being best friends with God.

 

I figured out they simply do not know who princess Celestia is. I mean, I assume they live in a place wich is outside the limits of Equestria (Because they kinda can destroy anything the see dont they?) so really they aren't under Celestia's reign, and have nothing to do with ponies. Sure Celestia raises the sun for the whole planet, but they dont have to know that

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

I haven't touched my computer since Friday night up until right about now, so if my observations duplicate any other major observations in the thread, I apologize. I haven't read the thread yet.

 

My impressions of this episode? Frankly I thought it was terrible. Perhaps I have an ingrained bias against Merriwether Williams at this point, but when I saw her name on the writing credits I knew I was in for a disaster despite the strong initial comedic opening.

 

As usual, her writing style exaggerated character attributes to a ridiculous degree. Rarity didn't feel like Rarity at all this entire episode. I could see Rarity desiring to dress up her camouflage helmet into a fancy hat. That makes sense to me and would be in character. But the red carpet? The accompanying dress? THE GLITTER AND FIREWORKS DISPLAY?! That was not only absurd, I'm surprised they weren't attacked and eaten by the migrating dragons! Rarity would not be that obsessed with her image. She's smarter than that.

 

Her continuous use of pet names targeted towards Spike were equally ridiculous. I suppose it's possible she does it on purpose because she knows it embarrasses him, and for all I know it could be something like a girlfriend referring to her boyfriend with cutesy nicknames, but come on. A little bit of it would have been fine, but she was constantly saying Spikey-wikey or some other nickname practically every other WORD when she spoke to him in the episode. It came off like a piece of badly written fanfiction.

 

Speaking of badly written, what was up with those stereotypical teenage dragons? While they're not the most one-dimensional characters to ever be on the show, in terms of their importance to the plot of the episode they could have used a lot more fleshing out. If it weren't for the animators and their impressive ability to make each dragon distinctive I doubt I could have told them apart. As it is I have absolutely zero desire to ever see them again. They were insipid, insulting, and enraging because their behavior didn't make much sense.

 

Of course the behavior of Rarity, Rainbow Dash, and Twilight, while on the surface fine, was also poorly written. The actions they took, in terms of following Spike, trying to rescue him from the various activities the teenage dragons put him through, etc...those all made sense, but the way they went about them, the way they spoke, etc, again felt like some bad fanfic writer trying to write for the characters rather than someone who, at this point, should have had enough experience with handling the characters that the level of exaggeration should have gone down. If anything it seems to get worse each episode I see penned from her desk.

 

One of the only interesting aspects to the episode was the use of phoenixes. We've never seen a phoenix in the wild prior to this point, and it appears they act much like normal birds, up to and including the abandonment of eggs from a tampered nest, which was probably why Spike was able to take that egg home and hatch it. While I don't know if that phoenix chick's name really is Peewee or not, I wouldn't mind seeing this character appear again in the future, so that some actual good came from this episode.

 

I think what makes me angriest about the episode is that it felt, ultimately, like a wasted opportunity. Even within the realm of their target demographic, the writers of the show could have made better use of this dragon migration idea by having Spike interact in some way with the dragons that was a bit more meaningful and unique. Spike could have spoken to other baby dragons for example, or even with an adult dragon. Instead, we got something that frankly felt like bottom of the barrel locker room trash I could see on just about any other cartoon that has been on the air in the past twenty or thirty years. Change the names and setting around a little bit and this episode could have been on just about any show with a character running into high school jocks. FIM is better than that, or at least it should be.

 

Perhaps my opinion will change on future viewings, but I doubt it. As I stated at the beginning of this post, I think I have too much of a bias against Merriwether Williams's writing at this point.

[Tupin86 195]

Williams did write Hearth's Warming Eve, which is one of my favorite episodes. Then again, she wrote Mare Do Well...

 

I don't particularly like her writing style, but she's written mostly for shows that rely on a very different kind of humor and characterization, (i.e. Camp Lazlo and Spongebob) so it's understandable. At least it's better than her previous episodes.

 

Rarity was a bit over the top in this episode, I'll admit. Spike wanted to hang out with the older dragons rather than the ones closer to his age because he thought they were "cool", I guess.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Tupin86

[DrOphthalmos 497]

I think I have too much of a bias against Merriwether Williams's writing at this point.

 

^ This.

 

I was wondering where you were. Not like you to not be part of an episode discussion.

 

Well, I think this episode was very well-received by lots of ponies here. I worry that the second you see the name of the writer, you watch in hypercritical mode. Before this episode aired, I had watched this while clicking around on YouTube:

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxswrROljos&feature=player_embedded

 

I think she did a great job recreating this episode for the G4 crowd.

 

Why would Spike seek out teens? He spoke to an adult dragon before, remember how well that worked out? Spike might be a baby dragon but like all children he wants to be seen as more grown-up and of course gravitates to young, but still older-than-him dragons. I am an only child but I have heard that younger siblings have a tendency to try to hang with and copy older siblings (often to the older sibling's annoyance).

 

I thought Spike was very believable in this episode and they portrayed a man's struggle with identity perfectly.

 

As for the ponies, seeing them in their costume and then seeing Crackle the dragon was comedic gold. I could not stop laughing.

 

I suggest you watch the G1 episode and then watch this episode again. You may also wish to read the post I made as to why Spike was turned-off by Rarity's attention in this episode - that sold it for me.

 

Or, you can just go on hating Merriwether Williams...

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7Vq_ge7lKM

[Arylett Charnoa 4,919]

I think that this is the most excellent episode that Merriwether character has written, and one of my favourites. Whilst the teenage dragons were stereotypical, and I really hated their overly cartoony designs, I thought the plot was overall interesting and engaging enough to keep me wondering what would happen next. Even if it was kind of predictable as episodes that this writer writes usually are.

 

My favourite thing about it was probably the phoenixes. I love their designs, and seeing more of them just made it awesome. I see that female phoenixes have eyelashes and little dots on their heads, whilst male phoenixes look a bit different. I also loved their method of defense. A bright flash of flame and light? So nicely animated. Although the animation did seem kind of off-model in the beginning. Really bugged me. I think the animators were being a bit sloppy there. Some of it resembled that cider episode's off-modelness.

 

Also, I don't even know where everyone gets this thing that Spike made it his pet. I was more under the impression that the phoenix was his friend. It was never explicitly said. But eh. I thought the lesson was a nice one. It seemed like more of an episode that had strength in humour. Like the moment with Crackle was priceless. I actually laughed. (I don't usually laugh when I'm watching MLP, or most of anything.) I laughed a few times throughout the episode too at the various antics.

 

Like at the beginning with Fluttershy's aggression. I found it unexpected that she had managed to run away and we never saw her again for the rest of the episode. I honestly thought they'd force her to go. Guess Iron Will's training did have an effect. Nice to see a lot of continuity retained in this episode. I was very pleased by that. And pleased by what they've been doing lately of mixing together different unexpected ponies. Rarity, Twilight, and Rainbow Dash? Surprisingly, it works. I'd like to see those three in an episode together again.

 

Like everyone else though, I was extremely disappointed to see the ponies run away rather than fight. I really wanted to see them prove to the dragons that ponies were powerful and not just all girly and namby pamby. But I guess ponies are less aggressive than dragons and don't really like to fight, which kind of makes sense.

 

I was surprised as well to see that the dragons mocked the ponies and that most of them were male... it did seem somewhat reminiscent of anti-bronies as a few have mentioned. I would've liked to have seen a female dragon somewhere in there, but I guess females don't like to hang out in groups of frat boys or something. I wonder if the adult dragons feel the same way about ponies? Or if it's just a teenager thing they'll grow out of.

 

It was nice though to see the spotlight focus on the non-pony fauna in the universe, and to have dragons expanded! And also for Spike to ask all of those questions about himself. He shocked me by how philosophical he was being for a children's show and the things they actually decided to briefly explore in his personality. Although as I expected, they were not answered. That was one thing that kind of irritated me about the episode.

 

Also, I think the reason he went out to hang with the teens is because he couldn't find the other baby dragons. I certainly didn't see any others around. I thought this was simple and obvious.

 

Though I think that everyone acted mostly in character, including Rarity's over the top antics. She's sort of over the top at times, so it suits her, really.

 

So I think overall, I enjoyed this episode because it was extremely entertaining to sit through even with some cliches involved. And would definitely watch it again.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Arylett Dawnsborough

[Tupin86 195]

I really liked Spike's "adventuring" scene, it was hilarious on all parts. The tea time and black sheep parts made me laugh, especially the latter.

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

^ This.

 

I was wondering where you were. Not like you to not be part of an episode discussion.

 

Well, I think this episode was very well-received by lots of ponies here. I worry that the second you see the name of the writer, you watch in hypercritical mode. Before this episode aired, I had watched this while clicking around on YouTube:

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.c...player_embedded

 

I think she did a great job recreating this episode for the G4 crowd.

 

Why would Spike seek out teens? He spoke to an adult dragon before, remember how well that worked out? Spike might be a baby dragon but like all children he wants to be seen as more grown-up and of course gravitates to young, but still older-than-him dragons. I am an only child but I have heard that younger siblings have a tendency to try to hang with and copy older siblings (often to the older sibling's annoyance).

 

I thought Spike was very believable in this episode and they portrayed a man's struggle with identity perfectly.

 

As for the ponies, seeing them in their costume and then seeing Crackle the dragon was comedic gold. I could not stop laughing.

 

I suggest you watch the G1 episode and then watch this episode again. You may also wish to read the post I made as to why Spike was turned-off by Rarity's attention in this episode - that sold it for me.

 

Or, you can just go on hating Merriwether Williams...

 

 

I believe your interpretation of my reaction is spot on...I was actually feeling pleased with the episode right up until I saw that name credit, and then I viewed the episode negatively after that.

 

While my reaction seems to have a lot of thought to it, in truth I should feel embarrassed over how biased it is, and ashamed of my own inability to see past who was writing the episode.

 

I will have to give the episode several viewings in the future before I can rate it honestly, and I apologize if I bothered anyone with my ranting and raving.

[--- 41]

We got another dose of "Rainbow Dash being absurdly mean to her friends" which is really, REALLY annoying me. Granted, it was just the bit at the beginning where they were all teasing Spike, but still.

 

Rarity was awesome towards the end, "I'm not usually much for fighting (I'm more into fashion) but I'll tear you to bits!" THAT is how you keep a pony in-character and have them work through their shortcomings! Rarity is freaking awesome.

 

I want to know how someone mysteriously gave Twilight a dragon egg and she simply doesn't know anything more. Does she know who gave it to her? Why did they give it to her? That is an awfully heavy "shrug of God."

 

Are there any female dragons? Why do we only see males?

 

This episode gave me a few laughs, but left me with a lot of questions.

 

I didn't really enjoy this episode. I haven't been enjoying the past few of them, really. I could really use a feel-good episode that renews my love for the mane six and reminds me how awesome they are. Rarity and Twilight have been the only ones occasionally being awesome. No one else seems to be shining.

 

Oh- I also meant to say: Fluttershy is friend to all living things and will gladly give a bear a chiropractic massage, but she doesn't want to watch the dragon migration?

 

The lack of character consistency/development is what bothers me most... -_-

[DrOphthalmos 497]

I want to know how someone mysteriously gave Twilight a dragon egg and she simply doesn't know anything more. Does she know who gave it to her? Why did they give it to her? That is an awfully heavy "shrug of God."

 

I thought the dragon egg was part of her magic exam.

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ig6JatWipfk&feature=related

[Yellow Diamond 7,569]

Kyronea, I was going to ask you if you would have formulated the same opinion had you not seen Merriwether Williams' name in the credits. Quite honestly, I didn't even know who wrote this episode until after it aired, and even then I thought it was a better going for Williams. She certainly paced the episode better than "Putting Your Hoof Down" which, frankly speaking, quickly ran through the plot without as much as development as previous episodes. This one at least situated itself rather quickly, though the primary conflict did not engage in gradual escalation. One of the consistent hallmarks of a Merriwether Williams episode is an almost immediate plot anvil; the conflict of the episode does not build so much as it explodes in several chain reactions. The metaphors are rather poorly worded, I know, but I find they are the best I can muster to describe her writing style.

 

The only qualm I have with Rarity doting on Spike is the fact it seems to be such an obvious attempt to slow down their mounting (heh heh) relationship. Rarity has shifted back to being oblivious with respect to Spike's feelings for her. I don't hold Williams solely accountable since I vaguely recall it cropping up in the episodes which have followed "The Secret of My Excess." This particular episode did emphasize the renewed distance, however, and it feels a bit like a forced rolling back of character development. Again, I don't think this episode alone is to blame for that specific issue.

 

For me, this episode is held together by a stable (I'm on a roll tonight) focus, i.e., Spike dealing with his fellow dragons, and the unorthodox team of Twilight, Rarity, and Dash. I find the greatest fault in how the storyline was backed into a corner, necessitating a radical event, i.e., the raiding of the phoenix nest, in order to have the episode come full circle. Spike seemingly leaves the dragons only if they force him to do something as brutal and vile as smashing an egg. Twilight, Rarity, and Dash played little role in the resolution other than teleporting to safety. Once more, I think Williams struggles with making characters intrinsically valuable to a scenario's resolution. In a show about friendship, I'm inclined to think friends will be essential for bringing things to a close.

 

On another note entirely, whenever the guitar riffs played during this episode, all I could think about was Batman Beyond. There was some part of me bracing for Terry McGinnis to swoop by in his Batsuit, make a snarky remark, and then clobber the teenage dragons. It probably also had to do with the fact the dragons were hooligans.

 

At least, that's how I try and reason my thoughts.

[Steel Matt 250]

I read some of the other review, and have to say they are pretty extensive...but to me, some are a little harsh.

 

I thought the episode was overall, very good. And as far as Character development, I don't think it was that bad. Rarity may have seemed a little off, but rarely in real life does a person act their true self everyday. We all go through weird personality "glitches" if you will!

 

At least the characters are not all the same, and no character development at all. As far as the Dragons go, of course they all acted somewhat similar...its what teenage groups do! The episode left a lot of questions and some plot holes, such as...Spike technically ended up stealing the Phoenix egg anyway, but who knows.

 

I say Lauren Faust should write a few episodes again! But overall, this episode was pretty good.

 

At the beginning, I think Iron Will's training went a little far with Fluttershy. haha. Rainbow Dash got Hoof kicked pretty good! It was very funny, but a little out of character for our Fluttershy!

[cuteycindyhoney 13,307]

Oh- I also meant to say: Fluttershy is friend to all living things and will gladly give a bear a chiropractic massage, but she doesn't want to watch the dragon migration?

 

The lack of character consistency/development is what bothers me most... -_-

 

That actually IS character consistency. It's been established in earlier episodes that Fluttershy has an irrational fear-phobia of adult dragons.

Edited March 19, 2012 by cuteycindyhoney

[Sunny Fox 5,950]

In our own ways, we are all biased. Being able to recognise and admit that is a laudible thing. We can only avoid being biased if we know about it. So, good on you, Kyronea!

 

Ironically, one of the few things you liked about the episode is one of the few things I don't: The phoenixes. For me, it really detracts from Philomena's charm when she becomes just another example of fauna you can find anywhere. And why should a phoenix be able to have young? Aren't they supposed to die, burn to ash and then be reborn, as Philomena did? It's almost like Pokemon - a supposedly legendary bird that any trainer can catch. (Not that I dislike Pokemon, but the concept as applied here seems absurd to me.) They could have substituted any bird in it's place... why use a phoenix? It would have meant they couldn't use the solar flare scene, but still. That's really my only gripe about the episode.

[--- 41]

That actually IS character consistency. It's been established in earlier episodes that Fluttershy has an irrational fear-phobia of adult dragons.

 

I realize that, but it still doesn't work for me. When she first met Twilight she wouldn't even speak to her until she saw the "cute little baby dragon." Most anypony who is afraid of snakes or bears or whatever will be very afraid of even little/young ones. Would an arachnophobe ooh and ahh over a baby spider? No. If anything, the animal lover tends to be too unafraid, and will try to pet wild animals and stuff.

 

At least they are consistent with their inconsistency!

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

Would I have formulated the same opinion of the episode had I not been watching to see who wrote it? Odds are, I wouldn't have. I probably would have thought more highly of some of the strong points, and not been quite so harsh about the weak aspects. I'm still not sure if I'd have really liked the episode, but I probably wouldn't have ranted about it.

 

In our own ways, we are all biased. Being able to recognise and admit that is a laudible thing. We can only avoid being biased if we know about it. So, good on you, Kyronea!

 

Ironically, one of the few things you liked about the episode is one of the few things I don't: The phoenixes. For me, it really detracts from Philomena's charm when she becomes just another example of fauna you can find anywhere. And why should a phoenix be able to have young? Aren't they supposed to die, burn to ash and then be reborn, as Philomena did? It's almost like Pokemon - a supposedly legendary bird that any trainer can catch. (Not that I dislike Pokemon, but the concept as applied here seems absurd to me.) They could have substituted any bird in it's place... why use a phoenix? It would have meant they couldn't use the solar flare scene, but still. That's really my only gripe about the episode.

 

Mythologically speaking, it is perfectly possible for phoenixes to procreate. They probably wouldn't exist in huge abundant numbers, but I see no reason for the species to be unable to reproduce.

 

Still, I understand why you would think that. Personally though, I'm not bothered by the phoenixes being present, because this is only the second time we've ever seen them on the show period. As such I still think they're extremely rare.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Kyronea

[cuteycindyhoney 13,307]

I realize that, but it still doesn't work for me. When she first met Twilight she wouldn't even speak to her until she saw the "cute little baby dragon." Most anypony who is afraid of snakes or bears or whatever will be very afraid of even little/young ones. Would an arachnophobe ooh and ahh over a baby spider? No. If anything, the animal lover tends to be too unafraid, and will try to pet wild animals and stuff.

 

At least they are consistent with their inconsistency!

 

 

Uh, MLP isn't a documentary. Besides, look at spike. As was one of the key points of the episode, he hardly even looks like he's related to the mighty dragons and their jerky teenagers.

 

The reviews here are starting to get a little odd. People are tending to forget one very basic thing. MLP:FIM is a cartoon.

Edited March 19, 2012 by cuteycindyhoney