Why people hated Alicorn Twilight

[cosmo22477 13]

i didnt hate alicorn twilight because i new it happened.i watched her coorination and smilled., while true, point 9,  in the  made in manehatten

she seamed to be  jealous that she coudnt go  with them.

[Mirage 24,747]

With all due respect, Princess Twilight was foreshadowed since Episode 1:

 

She was the only one with a crown symbol for her element (in other words, she was the one, like Neo). She stepped out of her comfort zone (left her hometown) and lead her friends against Nightmare Moon and defeated her (slayed the dragon), recognized and enabled the Elements of Harmony in their true form (Deus Ex Machina, seizing the sword), restored the friendship of the Alicorn sisters (resetting the biggest and most tragic upset at the time) and she was the only pony who had direct access to The Princess of Equestria (ie, Luke Sykwalker and Obi Wan) to further and fulfill her purpose/destiny (which the above pic depicts). After Episode two, Twilight Sparkle had changed drastically, and was already worthy of everypony's honor, including Celestia's. When she becomes Princess, she returns home.

Twilight Sparkle is the hero of the show. She is the most influential force for good and decency in the story. There is no other character that has a stronger presence when it comes to the most difficult problems and tragedies. Even when she was written in as a secondary or background character, she is always very close with her council or influence in some way, even if that influence happened long ago (ie, Starlight Glimmer!).

Her hilarious quirks and shortcomings aside, there is no other character in the show with a better resume than Twilight when it comes to achieving the honor of actually becoming a princess. All this has a very plain message - Karma. Do good, be good, make friends, trust, honor and sacrifice, and you will be rewarded.

 

Luke eventually becomes a Jedi.

Conan becomes King.

The Little Mermaid becomes human.

Neo defeats the Matrix (no more doubts about the prophecy of The One).

etc, etc.

Twilight goes through the same Hero's Journey that almost every story tells. Her becoming an Alicorn makes perfect sense if you look at the evidence...it's just that the evidence is disguised, like most other stories, to elicit the 'ah hah' moment.

The real problem about Princess Twilight is that such an ascension typically marks the end of the story. That's why Return of the Jedi and the other Matrix movies had little impact or reception. But the show persisted...and more importantly, it was expected to persist. And so I truly believe this was the subconscious withdrawal from the idea altogether, and most if not all the criticism of Hasbo stems for this very strong breaking of the rules in our minds.

 

[ggg-2 3,552]

27 minutes ago, Mirage said:

With all due respect, Princess Twilight was foreshadowed since Episode 1:

 

She was the only one with a crown symbol for her element (in other words, she was the one, like Neo). She stepped out of her comfort zone (left her hometown) and lead her friends against Nightmare Moon and defeated her (slayed the dragon), recognized and enabled the Elements of Harmony in their true form (Deus Ex Machina, seizing the sword), restored the friendship of the Alicorn sisters (resetting the biggest and most tragic upset at the time) and she was the only pony who had direct access to The Princess of Equestria (ie, Luke Sykwalker and Obi Wan) to further and fulfill her purpose/destiny (which the above pic depicts). After Episode two, Twilight Sparkle had changed drastically, and was already worthy of everypony's honor, including Celestia's. When she becomes Princess, she returns home.

Twilight Sparkle is the hero of the show. She is the most influential force for good and decency in the story. There is no other character that has a stronger presence when it comes to the most difficult problems and tragedies. Even when she was written in as a secondary or background character, she is always very close with her council or influence in some way, even if that influence happened long ago (ie, Starlight Glimmer!).

Her hilarious quirks and shortcomings aside, there is no other character in the show with a better resume than Twilight when it comes to achieving the honor of actually becoming a princess. All this has a very plain message - Karma. Do good, be good, make friends, trust, honor and sacrifice, and you will be rewarded.

 

Luke eventually becomes a Jedi.

Conan becomes King.

The Little Mermaid becomes human.

Neo defeats the Matrix (no more doubts about the prophecy of The One).

etc, etc.

Twilight goes through the same Hero's Journey that almost every story tells. Her becoming an Alicorn makes perfect sense if you look at the evidence...it's just that the evidence is disguised, like most other stories, to elicit the 'ah hah' moment.

The real problem about Princess Twilight is that such an ascension typically marks the end of the story. That's why Return of the Jedi and the other Matrix movies had little impact or reception. But the show persisted...and more importantly, it was expected to persist. And so I truly believe this was the subconscious withdrawal from the idea altogether, and most if not all the criticism of Hasbo stems for this very strong breaking of the rules in our minds.

 

Impossible. Lauren Faust never wanted Alicorn Twilight to be a thing. In fact, she never wanted Cadence to be an Alicorn, and from what i heard the fact that Cadence was made an Alicorn behind her back was one of the reasons Lauren left.

[Mirage 24,747]

Just now, ggg-2 said:

Impossible. Lauren Faust never wanted Alicorn Twilight to be a thing. In fact, she never wanted Cadence to be an Alicorn, and from what i heard the fact that Cadence was made an Alicorn behind her back was one of the reasons Lauren left.

That's a different matter entirely. My point was that there was foreshadow and plenty of evidence to make it believable. Lauren may very well have disagreed with the timing, which is understandable.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

On 10/12/2018 at 5:45 AM, Nightmare Muffin said:

people just despise change. That's really all there is to it.

Yes, it definitely is. And most of the times, a show should change and move forward, risk something, always. If someone keeps making a same thing over and over, It would eventually fail and become a self-parody.

Even when I said the show is best at itty-bitty everyday Ponyville stuff, I think Twilight eventually being a special one is a logical conclusion. 

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

On 10/14/2018 at 10:51 PM, Mirage said:

With all due respect, Princess Twilight was foreshadowed since Episode 1:

She was the only one with a crown symbol for her element (in other words, she was the one, like Neo). She stepped out of her comfort zone (left her hometown) and lead her friends against Nightmare Moon and defeated her (slayed the dragon), recognized and enabled the Elements of Harmony in their true form (Deus Ex Machina, seizing the sword), restored the friendship of the Alicorn sisters (resetting the biggest and most tragic upset at the time) and she was the only pony who had direct access to The Princess of Equestria (ie, Luke Sykwalker and Obi Wan) to further and fulfill her purpose/destiny (which the above pic depicts). After Episode two, Twilight Sparkle had changed drastically, and was already worthy of everypony's honor, including Celestia's. When she becomes Princess, she returns home.

Twilight Sparkle is the hero of the show. She is the most influential force for good and decency in the story. There is no other character that has a stronger presence when it comes to the most difficult problems and tragedies. Even when she was written in as a secondary or background character, she is always very close with her council or influence in some way, even if that influence happened long ago (ie, Starlight Glimmer!).

Her hilarious quirks and shortcomings aside, there is no other character in the show with a better resume than Twilight when it comes to achieving the honor of actually becoming a princess. All this has a very plain message - Karma. Do good, be good, make friends, trust, honor and sacrifice, and you will be rewarded.

 

Luke eventually becomes a Jedi.

Conan becomes King.

The Little Mermaid becomes human.

Neo defeats the Matrix (no more doubts about the prophecy of The One).

etc, etc.

Twilight goes through the same Hero's Journey that almost every story tells. Her becoming an Alicorn makes perfect sense if you look at the evidence...it's just that the evidence is disguised, like most other stories, to elicit the 'ah hah' moment.

The real problem about Princess Twilight is that such an ascension typically marks the end of the story. That's why Return of the Jedi and the other Matrix movies had little impact or reception. But the show persisted...and more importantly, it was expected to persist. And so I truly believe this was the subconscious withdrawal from the idea altogether, and most if not all the criticism of Hasbo stems for this very strong breaking of the rules in our minds.

 

That's right, but for some people, it's not about her being the 'One', It's about her being a 'Princess'. (And for some people it's also about her being the 'One') Early episodes focused on her being a hero. She is a special one and combines all five magics, she's like a Red Ranger from Power Rangers, but not a princess-princess. And being a princess in that particular situation and in that particular way, it seemed less like a hero.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Sepul-Coloratura

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

It may have been unexpected, and having Twilight become a Princess in what was believed to be the end of the story was fine. That the story continued after that may be one of the things that makes it so unique. No, you're not done now, you've just started. You accomplished something great, but the story isn't over. The struggles continue. With your new power and status comes responsibility. Becoming a Princess is no "happily ever after." It's not going to get easier. It's going to get harder, but if you're strong enough, it will be more than worth it. These are GREAT lessons, ones rarely shown to us, because it doesn't fit the usual "Hero's journey" format of storytelling.

Edited October 18, 2018 by BornAgainBrony

[Mirage 24,747]

11 minutes ago, Sepul-Coloratura said:

That's right, but for some people, it's not about her being the 'One', It's about her being a 'Princess'. (And for some people it's also about her being the 'One') Early episodes focused on her being a hero. She is a special one and combines all five magics, she's like a Red Ranger from Power Rangers, but not a princess-princess. And being a princess in that particular situation and in that particular way, it seemed less like a hero.

My point was to show that there were substantial hints and story mechanism in place to make her ascension to alicorn status, or Princess rank, relatively justified. That is, it wasn't a total surprise because it was foreshadowed in many ways.

I was not trying to convince anyone that they should enjoy and accept what the writers did, and when they did it, to make her a princess. Perhaps it could have been done better. I happened to enjoy the episodes that made her Princess, and although I understand why there's difficulty with it, I don't feel inclined to be less of a fan because some story elements don't work out that well.

As for the big reason fans didn't like the Princess thing... it made her too OP. The fans grew to love Twilight the awkward nerd, not Twilight the princess. I just don't think it's any more complicated than that.

[BornAgainBrony 2,397]

6 minutes ago, Mirage said:

The fans grew to love Twilight the awkward nerd, not Twilight the princess. I just don't think it's any more complicated than that.

That would make for a good episode; Twilight becoming dissatisfied with having too much time taken up with duty. Before she became the Princess of Friendship, she was like an adept version of Sunburst. A college kid full of ideas, constantly experimenting and testing new things, trying to advance science and magic forward. She never gets to do that anymore, and I would like the story to address that. Or just give her an opportunity to actually need to do that again, and then realize how much she misses it.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

10 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

It may have been unexpected, and having Twilight become a Princess in what was believed to be the end of the story was fine. That the story continued after that may be one of the things that makes it so unique. No, there's no happily ever after. You accomplished something great, but the story isn't over. The struggles continue. With your new power and status comes responsibility. It's not going to get easier. It's going to get harder. And becoming a Princess is no "happily ever after." These are GREAT lessons, and ones that are never taught by the usual "Hero's journey" format of storytelling.

This can work both ways.

1. They used an archetypal Hero's journey and fairy tail princesses, and suddenly not end in that way? That doesn't fit. If started that way, she deserves a 'happily ever after' ending.
2. It's a fresh twist on a familiar archetype. Almost anti-fairy tail.

If the show kept the 'not a cliched girly cartoon' identity, No.2 would have been worked. I don't feel either way, because I didn't thought of season 3 being the end. And if season 3 was the end, it would be remembered as a rushed ending.

[Sepul-Coloratura 762]

14 minutes ago, BornAgainBrony said:

That would make for a good episode; Twilight becoming dissatisfied with having too much time taken up with duty. Before she became the Princess of Friendship, she was like an adept version of Sunburst. A college kid full of ideas, constantly experimenting and testing new things, trying to advance science and magic forward. She never gets to do that anymore, and I would like the story to address that. Or just give her an opportunity to actually need to do that again, and then realize how much she misses it.

It would have been great if the show worked on those good elements they made, but instead of that, they made one of the weakest season premiere out of that idea of 'princess struggle'. Season 4 premiere was basically a rehashed fan-service by awkwardly showing Nightmare Moon's incarnation (which made it worse by reducing all the mystery and causing continuity errors), rehashed season 2 premiere, and a clumsy back and forth plot about mediating friendship and duty. Besides of that, her struggle about her status is just briefly mentioned though the show. Season 4 is pretty good, and has some interesting episodes, while maintaining the old school vibe, but the premiere defined the feeling of the whole season.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Sepul-Coloratura

[They call me Loyalty 1,948]

She has become less of herself since the transformation and ascendance. Like with the CMC. Instead of something simple and personal for the fillies, they made it so all three become crusader to help people find their talents, despite this not being a talent of their own. For what kid is this story relatable, or easy to identify with?

This kind of "developlment" distances the character from the viewer. And so it happens with the story that is more trying than simple, or spontanous, or lifelike. So, I wouldn't choose "hate" but rather "disinterest" Also, the distinction of princess for something as mundane as friendship is just silly.

[EpicEnergy 23,176]

I don't hate alicorn Twilight, I think that was one of the best moments in show, when Twilight became an alicorn!

[Splashee 28,563]

How can anyone hate such a awesome Alicorn? 

[CypherHoof 26,482]

I don't dislike Alicorn Twilight, and think it is a logical step on her progression to queen.

I do think they flubbed the transition though. Having her earn her wings as a reward for a boss fight would feel wrong, so her having to leverage her friends' feelings for each other to recover from a discordance was on message, and *maybe* would have justified it. But finishing a spell? nope.

Largely down to Hasbro of course - they forced a short season and an early upgrade, when they could have stretched Twi earning her wings out until the end of season 4, with a full length season 3 included, maybe even a separate episode per Element (like the "keys" episodes in S4) where where the Mane 6 help Twi with a problem where SHE has to express the virtues of one of the other Elements.

but getting wings didn't break Twi - if anything, it gave her something else to have anxiety attacks over.

[FlutterIsBestAlicorn 21]

My problem isn't really that fact that she became an alicorn, it's the timing and princess thing. She does not deserve being a princess (Fluttershy does) and maing her the princess ruins her whole character. If she's the princess it implies that she's supposed to be better than the rest of the mane six. But she isn't, she's worse than them besides Pinkie Pie and Rainbow Dash. If they had to have an alicorn, what I think would've been best is if a different member was to become princess, and Twilight's job was to be a friend and guide them through it. That would've been amazing and great character growth!

[FlutterIsBestAlicorn 21]

On 2020-09-10 at 5:18 PM, CypherHoof said:

maybe even a separate episode per Element (like the "keys" episodes in S4) where where the Mane 6 help Twi with a problem where SHE has to express the virtues of one of the other Elements.

That's an interesting concept but here me out. What if, they have one episode per element to show each of them becoming an alicorn

[CypherHoof 26,482]

10 hours ago, FlutterIsBestAlicorn said:

That's an interesting concept but here me out. What if, they have one episode per element to show each of them becoming an alicorn

as much as I support FlutterCorn as the next pony, I don't think having the entire mane 6 earn upgrades was on the cards. 

[FlutterIsBestAlicorn 21]

12 minutes ago, CypherHoof said:

as much as I support FlutterCorn as the next pony, I don't think having the entire mane 6 earn upgrades was on the cards. 

Me neither. Was just saying cause what you said made me think of that

[Splashee 28,563]

@Sepul-Coloratura

This thread now fits better in the FIM Canon Discussion section.

It has been moved there.

[Sparklefan1234 169,799]

On 2018-10-13 at 10:53 PM, Thrond said:

The reasons Twilight deserved it are flimsy.

 

I agree.

Magical Mystery Cure is my favorite episode of FiM but the reason Twilight Sparkle earned Alicornhood feels weird/forced if I really think about it. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Sparklefan1234