Tulpa Discussion Thread V1.2

[TheAnonPony 7]

Why doesn't Anon like hypnosis?

 

 

It's not that I don't like it. It's that it does not affect me in any particular or fantastic fashion. Also, when I asked Val what hypnosis does to me, he said it does 'freaky stuff, man. Freeeeaaaaky stuff...' and that I should practise it as little as possible. 

 

Val: Preferably not at all. Of course, if we want it to work, then it works. Otherwise, it's useless. And some want Anon to do it, some don't. I one of the don'ts. Because there is an amount of natural retaliation from Arcadia when hypnosis actually starts doing stuff. Because of such retaliation, the hypnotic effects are reduced to zero and start dissipating.

 

Tyrea: Also, it plays with the subconscious stuff. We take all subconscious stuff seriously. Serious enough to block or reject anything that is so close to it and it's not from us. Modifying or twiddling with the subconscious is something we see as the most serious matter. We wouldn't want something uncalled for to happen to him. Me and Valiance are pretty clear and concise on that.

 

That doesn't mean that I don't do it from time to time for scientific purposes. 

 

 

 

Also, are you and Val doing okay after the stuff with the intrusive thoughts?

 

 

Adagio: You actually care?    Wow, thanks.    We are fine now. We recovered in less than a day and we cleared the problem. Thanks for asking.

 

Val: Yeah, the threat was taken care of... by the Anon. We appreciate your concerns though. Glad to see people seeing tulpas as something more than just an experiment.

 

Tyrea: Yes. By the time we all recovered, Anon cleared up the intrusive thoughts and their 'spawn place'. Valiance took his time, so by the time he recovered, all was gone and he missed all the fun.

 

Adagio: That is not to say that I didn't get a chance to show them a piece of my mind.   

Tyrea: And the experiment that triggered afterwards...

 

Val: We sho-

 

Tyrea: No. Full stop.

 

 

 

Some people have been telling me that Erythema -- an OC of mine -- might be a tulpa or something close to it. Can anyone knowledgeable ask me questions to figure out if she is indeed a tulpa?

 

If you believe genuinely she is a tulpa, then you are halfway there. The other half is actually developing her sentience, voice and body. 

 

Do you get thoughts which are considered somewhat not your own?

A little mind voice which talks and it's not yours?

A certain notion of what the OC in question looks like?

Or perhaps a reaction or opinion which is generally not one of your own or one you would give?

Edited November 17, 2014 by TheAnonPony

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

 

 

Do you get thoughts which are considered somewhat not your own?

Somewhat. She's very strict and letting her think for me to some extent has had me done things I would not have moved to do if left on my own. I can feel her thoughts and a lot of it has to do with finding ways to protect ourselves in the real world which has ranged from critical thinking to weapons training. We tend to be interested in learning similar things but her interpretations and applications diverges from my own.

 

 

 

A little mind voice which talks and it's not yours?

Not an auditory hallucination. The "voice" of hers that I hear is an imagined voice, kinda like that voice you hear as you type, as an example.

 

 

 

A certain notion of what the OC in question looks like?

A good idea actually. Though I've still yet to make a full-body drawing of her.

 

 

 

 

 

Or perhaps a reaction or opinion which is generally not one of your own or one you would give?

There are places where our opinions are similar but she feels more strongly about them like being frugal and having even less faith in the economy than I do. In other places we contradict each other rather strongly; where my own thoughts lean a little into philanthropy, Erythema is misanthropic. It goes back to her belief that people are ego-driven and therefor not to be trusted. 

[TheAnonPony 7]

Sounds to me like you two are on the right track!
But again, remember that I cannot answer this question for you. All I can do is give you my opinion (and that is that she is developing and that you two are on the right track).

If you genuinely believe that she is a tulpa (with no constraints. More like you fully trusting that she is a tulpa), then she is.

If you feel and believe that she is a tulpa, then she kind of is, really. All you have to do is to continue developing her and help each other like I do with all my tulpas.

 

 

 

I once felt the same way like you, if someone is a tulpa or not. Her name is Tyrea, and I was doubtful if she was a tulpa or not. So I decided to believe that she is (instead of a servitor) a tulpa. And now she is. Quite a powerful one as well!

 

Tyrea: Belief works differently in mental plains. In our case, if Anon believes something is happening in Arcadia (our wonderland), that thing might as well happen (95% - 98% chances of happening). Trust, belief and confidence are critical factors when doing a tulpa. And don't worry, doubt happens to us all. It matters how we dissipate it. Good luck.

 

Val: SHE USED AN EMOTICON! IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD!!!   

Tyrea: Hush you.

 

 

 

I don't consider myself knowledgeable on the subject (because it's a relatively new thing to me and also I don't want to say that I know because I don't know since the only sincere and correct answer comes from the mind of the host. In our case, you.); but I hope my opinion clarifies some points.

Edited November 17, 2014 by TheAnonPony

[KruegerMeister 54]

Adagio: You actually care? Wow, thanks. We are fine now. We recovered in less than a day and we cleared the problem. Thanks for asking.

 

Why wouldn't I care? My tulpas are sentient to me; if I experience myself as sentient, and I don't question whether or not other humans have sentience, why would I question if other tulpas are sentient?

Also, I got over the issue with the song. Now I just need to come up with lyrics, and remix the tune. What's a good metaphor for the brain of someone with tulpa(s)? Would that be a "household"? "Community"? I'd use "system", but that would probably make people think of Sybil.

BTW, how's everyone else in Arcadia?

 

-----------------

 

"The holidays are coming up. You're asked to make a Christmas wish list...but you can't come up with anything (you haven't confirmed this definitively, but you suspect it to be because your tulpas are just that awesome)."

Does that sound like anypony here other than me?

Edited November 18, 2014 by KruegerMeister

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

@@TheAnonPony,

Well, here goes...

 

 

 

Erythema: So I see... It's been rather surreal residing in this guy's head but recently he's been wanting me to take control of his body and live his life. I refused. It's something he's been talking about to others as well. I don't think we're really separate as much as I am a personification of an aspect of himself that's been hidden. If he wants to be like me, then he can be because he knows me. I can do some of the thinking for him when he gets indecisive (which happens a lot) but I just can't act for him -- nor do I think I should. It's his body and his life. Have a nice day. 

 

 

Hm... 

[KruegerMeister 54]

@SunBurn

 

Erythema's right. You shouldn't have her live your life. A guy named Koomer tried that, and he ended up pretty much schizophrenic (it wasn't his tulpa's fault, though. I think he had a pre-existing mental condition). Also, I think that degree of escapism's unhealthy.

[Naiya The Brony 480]

Hmm.. i wanna know, have your tulpa felt your heart beat yet?

if so... what do you feel when you felt your host heartbeat?

[Golurk 467]

 

 

he's been wanting me to take control of his body and live his life.

 

 

Forgive me if what I'm about to say comes off as rude, but there are so many things wrong with that. First of all, there's a history of that failing. Quickly. I'm not sure of the guy's name, but there's a log of a guy who tried to do just that, and shortly thereafter completely lost control over his mind. To my knowledge, he's still trying to recover. Now granted, he may have had a condition beforehand, but the point still stands. Switching a dominant consciousness is not something to be done lightly (or in my view, ever).

 

Second, is merely something I've heard, but makes logical sense. When temporarily switched with a tulpa, one's brain allegedly burns through its supply of glucose much more quickly. If that's true, you'd find yourself suffering a wide range of harmful effects if you're not careful (I've heard everything from lethargy to epilepsy). You're essentially messing with the brain's food supply. And it gets very mad when it gets hungry.

 

But lastly, and most importantly, what has she done to deserve having your responsibilities thrown onto her? Think about it: she'd be essentially becoming the person who the world sees as "you". Your problems, your responsibilities, pretty much your *everything* would get thrown onto her shoulders. It's honestly a very dishonorable thing to do. I can see why one might want to do it, but it's a terrible plan. It victimizes the one you "love" while making your own existence merely a background shadow. No one wins. 

 

I realize that I can do nothing directly to stop you. But please, for everyone's sake, think about what you're doing, and realize that it's in no one's best interest. 

 

Again, I'm sorry if I seemed rude. I just wanted to talk some sense into you. 

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

@, Except that she refused and I can't make her do it.

 

 

 

But lastly, and most importantly, what has she done to deserve having your responsibilities thrown onto her? Think about it: she'd be essentially becoming the person who the world sees as "you". Your problems, your responsibilities, pretty much your *everything* would get thrown onto her shoulders. It's honestly a very dishonorable thing to do. I can see why one might want to do it, but it's a terrible plan. It victimizes the one you "love" while making your own existence merely a background shadow. No one wins. 

Well, the reason I wanted her to take over is because of how much stronger she is compared to my weakness. I tend to be if not outright am indecisive and needy where she is pretty much a lone wolf. She knows what her goals are where I am never sure... I thought about it because I deemed her to be more fit than myself. 

 

Erythema: I'm curious though... Given that I am female and this person male, is it possible for a person to develop gender dysphoria or something of that nature if a tulpa of the opposite gender were to assume control of the body? I don't really know if it was me or because of me or whatever but at one point it felt a little strange having a male body. That into consideration, neither me nor SunBurn have any idea what we're really playing with here, do we?

 

And do believe him when he said that I refused. It's something I am very serious about  :okiedokielokie: 

[KruegerMeister 54]

Is it okay to divide my wonderland into different areas that serve specific functions? Like an area for psychotherapy, a generic hang-out area, an area full of puzzles, etc.? That strikes me as similar to the myth that DID personalities are fragments of a whole person (the "angry alter", the "scared alter", etc.).

 

[That would be pretty ironic if your mindscape perpetuated the kinda shit you're trying to stop. ]

[Naiya The Brony 480]

Is it okay to divide my wonderland into different areas that serve specific functions? Like an area for psychotherapy, a generic hang-out area, an area full of puzzles, etc.? That strikes me as similar to the myth that DID personalities are fragments of a whole person (the "angry alter", the "scared alter", etc.).

 

[That would be pretty ironic if your mindscape perpetuated the kinda shit you're trying to stop. ]

it's very fine actually that it's up to you, My wonderland is divided by two... and placed in the two parts of my brain.. Well this how I perceive it. On my left side of my wonderland is well actually the living room and everything detialed there on my rigth side of the wonderland there's an empty black room there.. with one giant screen that connects with my sight, that means whatever I see in the physical world Summer and cherry will see it as well.. as long my eyes are open, and in there you can do creative thing you want and both of them are connecting. It's like the most detailed part of the wonderland is placed on my left and creativity or imaginative type of activity will be placed on the right, 

 

Like if you're a right brainer you're creative and if you're a left brainer then you're analytic and good in memorizing

[Time Shield 402]

I've been trying various things to try and get C to be vocal, but nothing's working. I don't feel like binaural beats are doing anything except making me feel more sleepy. So far only passive forcing has elicited anything that might be considered a success (head pressure). If I cant active force, I feel like this will probably take forever.

[TheAnonPony 7]

BTW, how's everyone else in Arcadia?

 

 

 

Val: Livin' and breathin'. We are all safe and cozy now that threats are being wiped the floor with. Gee, thank for actually bothering!   

 

 

he's been wanting me to take control of his body and live his life. I refused

 

And you did a good thing, with all due respect to SunBurn.

 

Tyrea: Do you realise how big of a crime that would be in Arcadia? It would result in capital execution. Without Trial. Just Anons' permission.

 

Val: Arcadia is our wonderland and we have a constitution (a set of rules me and Anon set before we actually founded Arcadia). Anyhow, that is not something any of us will ever recommend. Firstly, (and this is for you, SunBurn), the tulpa will not only have a tough time handling your life, but your brain will suffer damage as well. Think about it, the person who actually has the brain (let's call him 'The Big One'. In our case, you.) suddenly steps down and let's the 'Small One' (the tulpa) take control. That shouldn't happen. Tulpas are not meant to do that. They are meant to be assistants. Switching (although seriously illegal in Arcadia), is meant to be some form of entertainment or scientific experiment or something else. It depends how you look at it. I am pretty sure that you can handle your life. If there are troubles, your tulpa should (And this is for you, Erythema. Notice I said should. That means I am not obliging you) help you handle it. We are here to help our hosts, but we are definitely not here to take or be replacements for their lifes.  That makes us something we are not: A Tool. 

 

 

That into consideration, neither me nor SunBurn have any idea what we're really playing with here, do we?

 

 

Tyrea: Switching is the... 'endgame' perhaps, in a tulpas development stage. That's how far it can go. I can argue the opposite, but I won't digress. While it is the endgame, it's also a somewhat dangerous act if left uncontrolled. There are reasons why this stuff is illegal in Arcadia (i.e. we don't do it and if we do there would be consequences). Because it is considered by us (Arcadians) more dangerous that beneficial.

 

 

And do believe him when he said that I refused. It's something I am very serious about 

 

 

Sonata: Nobody questioned his honesty, don't worry. As before, we have reasons to believe him. No worriez!

 

Aria: Your the worst...  

 

Sonata: HEY! ... your evil.   

 

 

 

 

Is it okay to divide my wonderland into different areas that serve specific functions? Like an area for psychotherapy, a generic hang-out area, an area full of puzzles, etc.?

 

 

Val: Arcadia is a flippin' nation! Everything is sectioned here to increase Anons' understanding of it and also keep track of everything! In fact, it's something that helps the sustenance of the Union to cost just a single thought that crosses through his mind. If anything, I encourage sectioning!   

*Val seems to forget at times that my brain is not yours, and that you know better that him or me if you should do it*

 

(Some extra stuff about what Val said about Arcadia, if interested)

 

 

Tyrea: When Val and I did some organisation, we decided it is better to have Arcadia sectioned into sectors which have sub-sections which then have either departments or institutions or other things. For instance, a sector within Arcadia is tasked with acting as a catalyst to Anons' imagination. In there, there are sub-sectors like the Science Section, or the War & Tactics Section. Which in turn have large, modern looking building which are departments, like the Civilian Science Department or the Space Department. Other sectors have military institutions which are tasked with Anons' defence and National Security (Arcadias' security), while others are concerned with the political management of the nation (institutions tasked with sustaining/maintaining a 'business as usual' status quo on Arcadia and fulfilling roles that Anon would otherwise have to use.

 

Adagio: Wh-Wha?! Nobody told me of this!   

 

Val: That's what you get for not wanting to take part in regulations of Arcadia and management.

 

Adagio: I regret none...

 

Don't even try to ask me how they managed to do that without my head exploding or even having a headache. Even when I am going there. They won't tell me. They also won't tell me how they would prevent multiple personalities from developing. They say it has to do with passive 'Arcadian Retaliation against mental threats'. But they won't tell me how exactly it would react.

 

 

[Golurk 467]

 

 

Except that she refused and I can't make her do it.

 

Good. Keep it that way.

 

Anyway, update. Life happened. Again. Back to square 1 for me.  

 

That said, I've still occasionally been feeling that feely feel that feels feely, so I'll take it that she' not dead. Yet.

 

Regardless, I've got a busy few days ahead of me. I literally can't afford to spare the time for anything. After this stuff is done, though... We'll see.   

[KruegerMeister 54]

In terms of imposition, which is (for lack of a better word) "better"? 2D/Flash-animation, or Garry's Mod/Source Filmmaker-style animation?

[Bright Star 78]

What's best is what you feel you can recognize the most. 

Try looking up MLP in Real life for a few examples and to get an idea of what you can see. 

Personally, for me it closely matches the show, maybe a few more details here and there.

[KruegerMeister 54]

The cynical/skeptical part of me sometimes doubts my tulpas' sentience/independence/consciousness and says that doing away with those doubts = allowing myself to be delusional, and says that I'm giving up on reason/critical thinking. Is there any way to silence that part of me?

Edited November 21, 2014 by KruegerMeister

[KruegerMeister 54]

Anypony mind if I ask a question that I assume will make most tulpas and tulpamancers uncomfortable no matter how I phrase it?

[A Black Circle 1,585]

After a month:

 

So... much... successs......!!!!!!!!

Anypony mind if I ask a question that I assume will make most tulpas and tulpamancers uncomfortable no matter how I phrase it?

Fire at will, ponybreauu.

[KruegerMeister 54]

I'm writing a paper on tulpas. In terms of evidence, so far I've come up with:

P1. Little kids can create imaginary friends; writers, role players, etc. are capable of crafting deep, complex personalities for their characters, who appear to take on a life of their own.

P2. Most people are able to think of "how would (insert person I know well here) react to (insert imagined situation here)?"

P3. The existence of things such as the "inner critic" and schizophrenia prove that it's possible to hear negative voices.

P3a. If negative voices are possible, that doesn't necessarily exclude the possibility for positive voices.

P4. these articles exist.

C1. Tulpas are possible.

 

I can't find anything to support the idea that tulpas are sentient, though. Anypony know how I could convince a skeptic that that's the case?

[TheAnonPony 7]

So... much... successs......!!!!!!!!

 

Success? We like success! Tell us about your success!

 

I can't find anything to support the idea that tulpas are sentient, though. Anypony know how I could convince a skeptic that that's the case?

 

Tyrea: Scientific proof. But that's too scarce...

 

Val: Convincing someone that tulpas are sentient is like making them believe in fairy tales or urban legends (and this comes from a tulpa). If you are up for it, good luck; because the amount of 'proof' we found gets no longer than this: Chidambaram Ramesh, an Indian author and researcher, has mentioned in his book "Thought Forms and Hallucinations" that the creation of thought forms and other mental entities like Tulpa etc., is the result of holographic mind processing. (If modern/non-religious/non-fictional interpretation is concerned)

 

P3. The existence of things such as the "inner critic" and schizophrenia prove that it's possible to hear negative voices.

 

 

P4. these articles exist.

 

Adagio: I don't how much I can talk about these articles. but I know that Val and Tyrea did everything they could to prevent them from becoming a threat to Anon. From a system of identification of what is negative and what is positive to an entire matrix of defence against hallucinations. 

 

 

Sonata: Anon has an entire code of conduct on how to approach Arcadia and equally, how Arcadia approaches the negative thoughts. Because of that, we are highly effective at taking down threats (or negative thoughts). I never bothered reading it

 

Aria: Because you are stupid. I read the code, and I can tell that those two took all the measures possible and impossible (figure of speech) to make sure that nothing negative affects Anon without proper analysis and judgement. Anything that pushes him to do something bad is automatically deteriorated by the Unions Armed Forces.

 

A little update: those two (sonata and Aria) started making their own clothing; different from the one they have. And also, Sonata occasionally hums the engi jingle from FTL; which makes her too adorable.

 

And Tyrea and Val won't tell me how they did Arcadias defences without blowing my head up! 

Tyrea: Hihihi.

Val: Does a magician ever reveal his tricks? No. Because he no longer is magical!   

*Sigh* -_-

Edited November 29, 2014 by TheAnonPony

[KruegerMeister 54]

Does it matter that they won't tell you, if the defenses work right? Wouldn't it be pretty easy to tell what's negative or positive? Does the "matrix of defence" (which, unless I'm missing something, sounds like it's a bit overboard) distinguish between types of hallucinations (i.e., a tulpa's hallucinatory body vs a hallucination caused by sleep deprivation, or a scary-but-harmless hallucination vs a scary-and-parasitic hallucination)?

[TheAnonPony 7]

 

 

Wouldn't it be pretty easy to tell what's negative or positive? Does the "matrix of defence" (which, unless I'm missing something, sounds like it's a bit overboard) distinguish between types of hallucinations (i.e., a tulpa's hallucinatory body vs a hallucination caused by sleep deprivation, or a scary-but-harmless hallucination vs a scary-and-parasitic hallucination)?

 

 

Tyrea: The best way to identify the type of hallucination is through the response Anon has to it, and among other features which are hard to explain. Of course, there are other ways to identify that do not require Anons reaction to it. The so-called 'matrix of defence' (although I would not call it that) can identify the type of hallucination the same way it identifies negative and positive thoughts. And that means dead easy.

[KruegerMeister 54]

Arcadia's a nation, with a bunch of stuff that, to Anon, is a blackbox, right? And Adagio, Sonata, and Aria were created solely from Anon's intense emotions after watching Rainbow Rocks?

I see that as possible, but my inner skeptic doesn't really buy it (and sometimes doesn't buy the idea of sentient hallucinations in general--not just you guys). Considering my history as a tulpamancer*, does that make me a hypocrite?

 

*Should I just link you to my PR log over on tulpa.info, or try to summarize all the weirdness and post that summary here?

Edited November 29, 2014 by KruegerMeister

[TheAnonPony 7]

Arcadia's a nation, with a bunch of stuff that, to Anon, is a blackbox, right?

 

 

Tyrea: Anon can see Arcadia with his minds eye. Other than that, Arcadia is more of a nation for us than it is for him.

 

 

And Adagio, Sonata, and Aria were created solely from Anon's intense emotions after watching Rainbow Rocks?

 

 

No. They used my emotions as a momentum to gain sentience. After they gained that momentum, they swiftly tried to use creative power to 'solidify' their presence. They were already formed for sometime, but they were not fully sentient. These emotions were their queue and catalyst for achieving their sentience. They were more or less experimented upon before they gained conscience; and that also was part of the process as to how and why they managed to do that with virtually no push from my side. Other crucial elements were 'thrown into the mix' when they were made, and that includes: logic, independent emotions, independent thought and other things which make a person a person.

 

 

I see that as possible, but my inner skeptic doesn't really buy it (and sometimes doesn't buy the idea of sentient hallucinations in general--not just you guys). Considering my history as a tulpamancer*, does that make me a hypocrite? *Should I just link you to my PR log over on tulpa.info, or try to summarize all the weirdness and post that summary here?

 

Tyrea: Only you and your tulpas can answer that question. Regardless of the evidence you give us. Skepticism is a normal thing. Especially when incredible/hard-to-believe things are said around. It's a matter of belief and evidence.

 

Val: That being said, even if you give us that log, we cannot judge you. For two reasons:

 

1. We don't know you personally.

2. We cannot take a decision for somebody else, regardless who that person is, as that person (you, in this case) has all the evidence, information and unique reasoning necessary to reach a conclusion. In simpler terms, we are not you. Therefore, you should know better.

 

If our opinion counts, we believe, as Tyrea rightly mentioned, that skepticism is a normal thing and it does not make you a hypocrite. Also, the fact that you are reluctant to believe in something not so scientifically proven and subject to controversity (which bombs it down to a matter of belief) makes me believe that you are not a idiot. (PS: Sorry if I am too harsh.) 

 

On a different subject: congratulations to the OP for making an over 4000 replies topic! Oh and all the people who replied to it, of course.