gaming The Last of Us 2

[KatonRyu 1,026]

I was kind of surprised that there wasn't a topic for this game on here. Or maybe there has been, but it's been deleted or locked because the discussion got out of hand. I don't know. Still, being a non-PS4 owner I just finished watching the LP of the game, so I figured I'd go to a forum entirely unrelated to the game to give my opinion on it, and see the opinions of others. For those who haven't played the game or watched an LP of it, I'll put this entire rant in spoiler tags.

 

Spoiler

Going into this game, I expected kind of the same as I did from Last of Us 1: solid characters in a basic, but serviceable story. For the first hour, hour-and-a-half or so, the game seemed to be on course to do exactly that, until the already infamous moment occurred that had the entire fandom up in arms: Joel's death. Honestly, I didn't really mind the writers going for that so early into the game, since it's a good setup for a standard revenge plot. Yes, the execution (no pun intended) was rather lacking, since it requires some idiocy on the parts of several characters, but whatever, we'll go with it.

Now we begin the game proper, and again, it's just about what I expected. The graphics are gorgeous, the interactions between the characters are a bit cliche, but they feel natural all the same...and the world is built on one contrived coincidence after another. I had the same problem with LoU1, in that there's always a convenient way for the characters to get where they're going, which always just so happens to feature notes that spell out a coherent story as you travel along. Now, that a path forwards needs to exist for the game to work is obvious, and that the devs want to add life to the world by having Ellie find notes is entirely fine. My problem is that the notes are always addressed to specific people, whose corpses you're almost guaranteed to find down the line. This happening once in the entire game, I can take, but this kind of stuff happens around a dozen times. In a city the size of Seattle, how big are the odds that you just happen to come across the exact apartment building in which Scott (or whoever), the person to whom the note you found in that one convenience store was addressed, lies dead with his goodbye note addressed to the sender of the previous note to make it extra clear it's the same Scott? And sometimes these notes form entire chains of correspondence, spread through wildly different neighborhoods. Stuff like that just breaks all immersion, especially since the plot itself really isn't that strong.

Up until about the halfway point, everything continues to go as expected. You find people of the group that killed Joel, some of whom are already dead and some you kill yourself, but the revenge plot does its job. Then, Jesse gets shot, Abby keeps her gun on Ellie...and we go back to day one, so we can play through Abby's life in Seattle. I'm pretty sure this is meant to draw a parallel between Ellie and Abby, as well as to create some sympathy for her. Since the characterization is one of the strong suits of this game, it does that job quite adequately, but the simple fact is that the players at this point just want to see her dead because of what she did to Joel. That Joel himself did terrible things too, we know that. It's obvious that he'd have enemies, and that wanting to kill him is justifiable, but Joel and Ellie are the main characters. You hurt them, you need to die. While Abby does become more sympathetic during her section of the game, it derails the entire plot completely to make us sit through the same three days again, knowing in advance what the outcome will be. The plot was weak, and staying on track was the only thing that kept it going at all. Now, it just comes to a grinding halt. The pacing, at this point, is entirely dead. There are some good moments, all of them cutscenes, but they can't bring the pacing back. Then, at the end of Abby's section, you're forced to fight Ellie in a boss fight. Yeah. You're supposed to fight against the person you're rooting for. The LP'er I watched let himself get killed on purpose during it, and it was the most satisfying moment in hours. But sadly, the show must go on, Ellie is left bleeding on the floor for the second time in the game, and we cut to a timeskip.

Why, Naughty Dog, why? I was watching a playlist, so I knew there was two hours of game left, but the climax was the confrontation at the theater, and it was an immense disappointment. What could they possibly pull out now? Oh, yeah, Ellie and Dina live on their farm, with their son JJ. There's a bit of happiness, then Ellie has a flashback to Joel's murder, Tommy shows up to tell her he knows where Abby is, then calls Ellie out on not wanting to go after her, then we get a flashback to the night prior to the beginning of the game, where Ellie and Dina first kiss and she argues with Joel, then she leaves the farm in pursuit of Abby.

And...we go back to another section with Abby as the lead. Honestly, stop trying, devs, please. This game should have been over by now. But no, there's more padding, and more padding, then some weird group of people captures Abby, and we cut back to Ellie. What did this bit add? Nothing, that's what. Ellie gets herself caught in a trap, gets injured but escapes, mirrors Joel when he was looking for Ellie in the first game by shooting a guy in the leg and then killing him after he tells her what she wants to know, then we get the compound of the new group of bad guys. I skipped through nearly all of it, and now we're finally at the final fight with Abby. And Abby bites off Ellie's fingers. Yep. Because why the fuck not? And, of course, Ellie is on the verge of drowning Abby and ending it, but she lets her go instead after yet another flashback moment. Oh, and when she comes home, the farm's deserted. And she can't play guitar anymore because her fingers were bitten off (which, by the way, she had promised to teach JJ when he got older, for extra poignancy). And then we get our final flashback, to Ellie telling Joel she wanted to try to forgive him for saving her life at the end of the last game.

They just went too far in taking Ellie's life away. Yeah, we get it, vengeance is bad. This, though, is a stupid amount of retribution. Abby lives, Ellie loses literally everything that meant anything to her. Great fucking job, guys. Oh, and the part where she finds out what Joel did? In-universe, that was two years ago, after which she said she didn't want anything to do with him anymore, and the game very heavily implies in its final flashback that that was the moment she finally wanted to try and reconnect. The day before Joel gets brutally killed. The amount of storytelling cliches and gameplay and story segregation in this game is just incredible, and not in a good way. What the hell were they trying to convey through this utter trainwreck? I knew, going in, that Abby would live, but there were so many ways they could've handled that. If the confrontation in the theater had ended with Ellie having Abby at gunpoint, broken and bleeding on the floor, and she'd thrown away her gun bitterly saying she just wasn't worth it, that would've worked, while at the same time showing that Ellie is different from Joel, who would surely have pulled the trigger. Cliche, maybe, but a fairly serviceable one. Hell, Katara sparing the raider captain who killed her mom in Avatar was a great scene. No forgiveness, but the realization that her vengeance would ultimately be hollow. That's all they needed to do. But no, instead Abby decides not to follow through, for the fucking second time in the game, and we get that whole padded ending. Great. Thanks.

I was looking forward to this game, ever since I watched the LP of the first one. For it to be so disappointing in the end is incredibly frustrating. It would've been so easy to do a better job. It's all made worse by the gorgeous graphics, fantastic animations during the cutscenes and in general, and the incredible emotional power of some scenes. Those strengths are utterly drowned in the disjointed, lackluster chaos that makes up everything else. Plenty of people say that Joel deserved better. I think Joel and Ellie both deserved better.

Well, with my opinion summed up in this giant rant, I'm quite curious what other people think. Did you think the story was handled well? Did you think the conclusion was satisfying?

Lastly: this game has already gotten quite the reputation, so just in case, keep any discussions civil and on-topic.

[Misty Shadow 7,092]

I've heard better arguments from the side of people who don't like the game, but judging by this review...

I'd say it's at least a 6/10. 

[HeavenSunset 1,867]

Uhhh, sorry but TL;DR, but anyway i like the game

[joanro 247]

Like the OP, I watched someone else play the game and watched various videos on YouTube about the game(I also read the leaks about the game before it was released). I think the I saw the main plot points of the game, but if I missed something let me know.

Spoiler

So, first, I want to say that I liked the story of the game. I think it was more than just a typical revenge story and I appreciate the risks they took with the narrative(playing as Joel's killer and Joel's death). I think the quote if you seek revenge then be prepared to dig two graves sums this game up perfectly. As a player, you get to see both Ellie and Abby's side of the story. I understand that people have an emotional attachment to Joel and Ellie. Of course people are going to be biased towards Ellie because she is the main character of the game. I get it, but I don't think she was justified in doing some of the things she did to go after Abby. However, I am not saying Abby was right either. In my opinion, none of the characters were just or moral. Revenge cost both of them almost everything. I say almost because they both had something left at the end. Ellie had Dina and Abby had Lev. I did think the ending was unsatisfying, but not because Ellie didn't kill Abby. Rather, I think the real tragedy is that she realized too late how meaningless it all was. In doing so, she lost the one way she could connect with Joel's memory. Personally, I would have ended with Ellie and Dina being together and Ellie trying to make peace with Joel's death. Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts on the game.

I wonder if there will be another game in the series? I would imagine if they did, it would be about Abby and Lev. If it is about Abby and Lev, I would like to have a scene where Abby tries to make amends with Ellie over what she did. Just a thought.

P.S. Thanks for making this topic by the way. I know the game is polarizing, but I do think this game warrants discussion. Also, if Laura Bailey doesn't win award for best voice acting for Abby at the Video Game Awards, I am going to be triggered.

Edited July 2, 2020 by joanro

[Dark Bun 681]

Any game that could generate this level of a visceral reaction, must have a good story. If the gameplay is a 1 to 1 of the first game, then I imagine I'll be hording everything I find and searching every nook and cranny for supplies. I haven't played it yet, but it seems okay and I'm looking forward to it.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Dark Rider

[KatonRyu 1,026]

58 minutes ago, Dark Rider said:

Any game that could generate this level of a visceral reaction, must have a good story.

In my case, the visceral reaction is because they have very good characters, who happen to be in a story that gets worse and worse. I'd like to know your thoughts once you have played it, though.

[Vefka 1,499]

I haven't played it, but according to reviews there's no point in playing unless you love the first. And come on, another story about revenge? This is surely not a level of AAA story-oriented project. There's also a lot of argues about excessive lgbt theme, but I didn't see anything hatred-worth, however it's a bit annoying in the beginning

[Steve Piranha 28,788]

Meh, didn’t bother with it. I find some narrative choices questionable, and while I expect the gameplay to be as solid, TLOU is also complemented by the narrative. 

[Sonic Shimmer 4,116]

I’ve been wondering whether to buy this game or not. I thought the first game was good (albeit overrated) but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a game as fiercely hated by gamers as this one.