How/why/when did the races separate?

[AlbaTross 1,586]

Given that the world of FiM had to end in order to make way for the process that would eventually lead to the world presented in ANG, there is definitely room for discussion on the topic of implications.  Regardless of whether the show ends up answering all our questions or not, there's room for all manner of fan theories and headcanons in the meantime.  So, feel free to share your theories on what happened.

There isn't a lot that we know, but it's probably worth going over the evidence anyways: 

The three pony races live separately from one another leading up to the events of the film.

The other races are nowhere to be seen.

Pony magic is contained within a three-piece crystal artifact, with somepony from each race having possession of one of the three parts.

The world is otherwise calm during the events of the film.

All of the above has its share of implications.  The three pony races obviously split off from one another, which heavily implies conflict of some kind.  Of course, the ponies living apart from one another, but in otherwise well-developed kingdoms that function like typical post-modern societies obviously means they were able to rebuild, thus implying the world pf Equestria wasn't irreparably destroyed.  It's also worth noting that the three pony races clearly lived through whatever conflict they may have had or they wouldn't be around anymore.  

The absence of the other races doesn't necessarily mean they died off.  Perhaps they also went their separate ways.  We actually have even less information on this point to base any kind of inference off of.  All we can say for certain is they are not by where the pony settlements are, nor are they in the space between the three settlements that Sunny and her friends traversed.  

The very existence of the crystal artifact implies the sealing away of pony magic was in fact intentional, and was a mutually agreed upon act by all three races.  That each race has possession of one of the parts further supports this notion.  That two of the three races were very negligent with theirs to the point that their descendants forgot they so much as had any significance, and even the Pegasi, who actually did treat their part of the artifact with proper reverence forgot why it was important to them implies that a great deal of time has elapsed, and there was poor record keeping.  However, it does all make sense to some extent.  If ponies had no intention of ever reconciling, I could see some groups not caring if their part of a shared artifact ended up in the bottom of the ocean, let alone whether it's stored in a safe and respectful manner, but I could also see a group treating theirs like a royal heirloom that does need protecting.

The world as of the events of the film appears fairly empty.  Perhaps that will change when the show finally hits, but for now all that can be assumed is that there's nature between the three pony settlements and that's it.  Of course, the very existence of said nature, along with the existence of life in general and having a day/night cycle also indicate none of the above depend on ponies.  

Given what we know and the implications that entails, it seems likely that something cataclysmic happened that forced ponies to give up their magic.  Windigoes could be that thing, as they're supposed to block the sun and freeze the planet in an eternal winter, effectively killing off ponies throw freezing and starvation.  That they didn't suggests that the ponies did something to make that not so.  Giving up their magic isn't something they would do lightly for a variety of reasons.  Ironically, I think the three races had to work together to circumvent the threat of imminent death, even with every intention of parting ways afterwards.  They must have really hated one another to choose to give up their magic instead of trying to work things out.  My headcanon is that ponies still had some magic.  Half-cutie marks imply a major magic deficiency, but even that shouldn't be possible without some magic.  Come to think of it, most coat and mane colours shouldn't be either.  

As for the other races, well, Windigoes seem to follow ponies specifically.  It's unknown what their radius is, but they seem to only venture so far away from ponies.  I think the most practical decision a leader of a race could make would be to get as far the heck away from the source of something like Windigoes as possible, and make it clear the species that attracts them isn't welcome within a certain distance of their lands.  There's a good chance the other races didn't die off, but just decided to stay clear of ponies.  The world itself may have also had some of its magic removed.  Windigoes are magical beings, so of course cutting off their life source would be crucial to defeating them.  On the other hand, life in this new Equestria goes on.  Heck, the sun and moon either move on their own or somecreature else is controlling them (we really don't know which).  

For my ideas on why the ponies started hating one another, I think some external force is to blame, likely an antagonist or antagonists of source.  First and foremost on my list are Tirek, Chryssy and Cozy Glow, if they were to get unpetrified at a time when the Mane Six and others weren't around to stop them.  They did almost cause such disharmony in a remarkably short time span in Season 9.  Sirens are also a possibility, though I have my doubts about that.  

Anyways, what do you all think?  I'm curious to know what other theories there are on the subject.  

[Tom Gallagher 33,588]

I have thought about it a lot too and my theory is pretty much the same as yours. I really hope the series tells us what happened because my biggest gripe about the movie was that it didn’t answer anything. 

[HereComesTom 2,267]

Some part of me thinks that the real answer is:  there was no war. 

The ponies somehow converted nature into something that can run on its own, and then willingly gave their magic up so that villains would stop bothering them---often, villains were trying to take their magic away.  If they don't have any, the villains would stop coming.

Another possibility is that this nature-becoming-what-we'd-call-normal was happening anyway:  remember that the pink tree in the background during Sunny's and Izzy's travels was meant to be a de-crystalized Tree of Harmony, and it didn't have a massive cave, castle ruin, or large forest surrounding it.  That could mean that the magic of the Tree of Harmony and the magic of the Everfree Forest someone cancelled each other out, and instead of the forest being an unstoppable, thorny, town-wrecking threat, it simply caused animals, seasons, and weather to take care of themselves---and this nature-takes-care-of-itself effect is what actually spread out and covered the world.

Of course, it's also possible that the Tree of Harmony saw ponies were breaking apart again and converted Everfree Forest and its magically-spreading effect into a nature-normalization spreading effect, and went from crystalline to leafy in the process of burning up most of its energy making that shift.

[HedonismBot 239]

None of the tribes were aware that the others had also lost their magic, which implies that the race relations breakdown came before the magic going AWOL (though it doesn't prove it 100%, what with all the misinformation floating around). Plus the stained glass in the abandoned airship station shows Twilight's cutie mark radiating energy towards the crystals, implying that she was somehow involved.

[AlbaTross 1,586]

18 hours ago, HereComesTom said:

Some part of me thinks that the real answer is:  there was no war. 

The ponies somehow converted nature into something that can run on its own, and then willingly gave their magic up so that villains would stop bothering them---often, villains were trying to take their magic away.  If they don't have any, the villains would stop coming.

Another possibility is that this nature-becoming-what-we'd-call-normal was happening anyway:  remember that the pink tree in the background during Sunny's and Izzy's travels was meant to be a de-crystalized Tree of Harmony, and it didn't have a massive cave, castle ruin, or large forest surrounding it.  That could mean that the magic of the Tree of Harmony and the magic of the Everfree Forest someone cancelled each other out, and instead of the forest being an unstoppable, thorny, town-wrecking threat, it simply caused animals, seasons, and weather to take care of themselves---and this nature-takes-care-of-itself effect is what actually spread out and covered the world.

Of course, it's also possible that the Tree of Harmony saw ponies were breaking apart again and converted Everfree Forest and its magically-spreading effect into a nature-normalization spreading effect, and went from crystalline to leafy in the process of burning up most of its energy making that shift.

It's possible.  Ponies in the film don't remember why the races separated, but their world doesn't appear war torn.  The extreme prejudice they all felt towards one another does suggest something did happen though.  Perhaps they split off without any violence, but with no intention of meeting again.  Quite frankly, it would probably be difficult to fight a war anyways with the reality of imminent death looming over them.  That doesn't necessarily mean they left on good terms though.  They probably just wanted to live in peace, away from one another, but that's still depressing.  I mean, another way to keep Windigoes (and other magical beings that feed on disharmony) away would have been to just get along.  That they didn't choose that option says a lot.  

Hmmm...it would be interesting if the Tree of Harmony sealed away magic in the environment to save the ponies.  It's uncertain if that's what actually happened, but something did remove magic.  Actually, the Earth Pony at the end of the film seemed to reawaken magic in the ground, suggesting that it wasn't actually removed so much as rendered dormant.  That it took an Earth Pony to do it also suggests that the planet may have some connection with Earth Ponies, the severing of which had some effect on the surrounding environment.  Of course Earth Ponies aren't responsible for all ambient magic in nature, but maybe they helped circulate it or something, or added a little extra to it.  

3 hours ago, HedonismBot said:

None of the tribes were aware that the others had also lost their magic, which implies that the race relations breakdown came before the magic going AWOL (though it doesn't prove it 100%, what with all the misinformation floating around). Plus the stained glass in the abandoned airship station shows Twilight's cutie mark radiating energy towards the crystals, implying that she was somehow involved.

It does seem likely that the ponies decided to split off before sealing their magic.  It's possible some delegates from each of the tribes did it without telling the rest of their respective races.  

Twilight and the Mane Six having something to do with the sealing away of magic would be very interesting.  It's interesting that such a station is still standing.  That implies that the schism is much more recent than is immediately apparent.  On the other hand, that nopony alive seems to know what happened, and that there aren't much in the way of records suggests that a significant amount of time has in fact elapsed.  Well, that and really poor record keeping on the part of all three races.  

[HereComesTom 2,267]

18 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

Twilight and the Mane Six having something to do with the sealing away of magic would be very interesting.  It's interesting that such a station is still standing.  That implies that the schism is much more recent than is immediately apparent.  On the other hand, that nopony alive seems to know what happened, and that there aren't much in the way of records suggests that a significant amount of time has in fact elapsed.  Well, that and really poor record keeping on the part of all three races.  

A spark went off in my head when I read this:  there is magic in the FiM universe that affects memory.  Maybe the memories of the tribes were erased for some odd reason?  If their memories were erased, then G-4 could've happened a lot more recently than we think in relation to G-5.

...Of course, that is the kind of theory I'd come up with after watching a bunch of videos about the SCP Foundation...

 

18 hours ago, AlbaTross said:

That it took an Earth Pony to do it also suggests that the planet may have some connection with Earth Ponies, the severing of which had some effect on the surrounding environment.  Of course Earth Ponies aren't responsible for all ambient magic in nature, but maybe they helped circulate it or something, or added a little extra to it.  

You know, I've always had this worldbuilding question in the back of my mind about how the extra-fundamental-force-that-is-magic would affect how nature works---specifically, things like the water cycle, the rock cycle, other things in nature.  Like, my headcanon is that the magic in the soil can form large crystals, explaining why the gems Rarity digs up are much larger than the ones that generally exist in real life.  Heck, if magic can cause crystals to grow large enough, it could form a mountain---like Canterlot itself, for example!

And magic-affecting-the-rock-cycle would also explain why rock farms exist, for that matter:  crystals wouldn't be the only kinds of stones that magic could form, and considering that stone gets used for building materials and landscaping, it'd make sense for a profession to exist in that world whose job it is to plant rocks in a magic-laden field so that the magic grows those rocks into usable materials.

All of that worldbuilding rant being said, if Earth Ponies were connected to crystal-building magic, then the huge crystals we saw in the movie wouldn't have been in Bridlewood Forest; they'd have been in Maretime Bay.  So...maybe I went a hundred miles an hour down the wrong track with that rant...

[Goat-kun 2,527]

Separation by tribe is the natural state of pony existence. When the world became natural again, so did the ponies. However, we know from canon (lol) that even when separated, ponies do retain their magic. Given that the thingamajigs are regarded as mere symbolic relics and are used by insignificant and powerless pony nobodies, they likely weren't a product of some conflict. These are probably the last rabbit pulled out of Harmony's blow hole. Now why would one want to steal magic from its own people and regulate its use? More than a forced separation, this looks like an attempt at forced co-existence by any magic necessary. The movie without the magical artifacts is fine. Adding those really activates them almonds.

[Octavian 5,421]

My favourite explanation for it is that they drifted apart, a bit like @Goat-kun says, because ponies began preferring the company of other ponies similar to themselves and that process became exaggerated (maybe due to pony social media  ) . I don't think there was a pony war from what we see of Briarwood/Zephyr heights, the room which showed ponies visiting in Zephyr especially, and also there are many non-pony threats in Equestria. The crystals are just a symbol.  

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

hmm I think there are similar topics like this one already... but I guess this one is specific about the separation..... 🤔

anyway I believe it's a cycle.... a cycle that broke somehow....

an alicorn is needed to unite the pony races....

ancient ancient Equestria was at war with  Each other, but couldn't war because windigoes.

(btw windigoes only appear when Hate between the pony races occurs NOT when they fear each other. notice when sprout was going to war? the clouds starts to form and it got dark. then when sunny suddenly became an alicorn, and Sprout, the Instigator of War stopped. the sun came back and brighten the day.

thus the windigoes DID show up in the movie.

so the one who actually triggered the windigoes AKA the dark clouds looming at the end was Sunny.

 

anyway back to topic....sry)

thus hearts warming eve occured and the royal sisters where born(aka turning into Alicorns)... and might be the first cycle.

next was suppose to be cadence..... but twilight happened..... then it was suppose to be flurry heart..... but what happened!?..... what did you do flurry heart!? you were supposed to be successful! you had a tapestry and what not at the end.... you had the student six!?.... oh wait... maybe that's the reason why... lol just kidding who knows... we just know the cycle end with twilight and probably with flurry.

then sunny turned to alicorn because she successfully united the races...or did she?

she had temporary looking magic and some of the races are still hmmmm about it...

so maybe the episodes will tackle more on uniting the races before they show the villain who was behind all this.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rumpelstiltskin 45]

A likely answer is some kind of plague. 

It could be ponies stopped traveling to stop the spread and continued to remain isolated long after it passed, or it could be the plague decimated the population so badly there's only enough ponies for three towns. Perhaps the survivors were ponies who were already isolated and slightly ignorant of the other tribes, and those only grew worse over time. 

[Skylight Scintillate 2,031]

I find the theory AlbaTross mentioned to be the most likely. If there was active conflict, then the wendigos would have appeared, but if the species have separated without active conflict, then what could be a way around the wendigos appearing. Perhaps we will find out more when we see what role magic has in the G5 series.

[Orchid_Fiore 200]

I only hope that the explanation for the events that led to separation be logical.

[Rushing cash 836]

If they decide to tackle that question in the show, and I think they will, I hope that will think this thoroughly and perhaps break the explanation into a few episodes. 

As for what might have happened... perhaps they (from each other and other races as well) separated gradually by themselves, just slowly grew distant (that might explain why the windigoes are not there). Perhaps some extreme movements drove them apart, like a society of ponies whom thought they were above other creatures and drove them away (similar mentality to Neighsay), and then the mistrust grew between the ponies (perhaps they somehow magically got rid of the windigoes, or stopped interacting all together). Perhaps some villain caused this, like the legion of doom or someone new.  It would be really nice to see some villain\s that actually succeeded in their plans (at least to some degree).

[reesespuffed 28]

 

People always wonder why they did but im thinking when is exactly the timeframe? It was long enough for a pegasus royal family to happen but not long enough for the tribes to really get too comfortable and be unwilling to change no matter what. How did argyle even know who twilight was? did he have parents who knew or found books? Also the unicorns do know what magic is so the concept of that isnt lost to time. I guess this means a few centuries so the pegasus royalty forms but not enough for fim to be truly forgotten

[HereComesTom 2,267]

I'm not sure whether the news broke that Sombra would return before or after this thread was written, but I'm starting to suspect he might've had something to do with the separation.  Not sure why he'd do that instead of mind-controlling everypony to be his slave, though.

[Star_Quake 28]

So, my theory is that a war happened probably due to some disagreements between the races. (In the beginning of the film Sprout claims that there was a war that the Earth ponies had won.) The only reason why the Wendigoes aren't alive is because there isn't enough magic for them to manifest through. I don't think Unicorns, Pegasai, and Earth ponies fully lost all their magic either. However they don't have enough magic to fly, cast spells. Or do whatever Earth ponies do. For example, Hitch has a connection with animals. That could've been a natural thing, or a magical thing. But I believe it's a magic thing because when Fluttershy's cutie mark was taken away, she wasn't able to communicate with animals. (Or even understand them)

 

[AlbaTross 1,586]

Well, to kill some fish, one doesn't need to remove all water.  There's a certain quantity they all need to live for any length of time, and a higher quantity needed for them to survive for very long.  Perhaps there is a certain threshold of ambient magic that needs to be in the environment in order for beings like Windigoes to live. 

It's still pretty dark that ponies decided to give up the bulk of their magic to make that happen rather than simply trying to get along, bearing in mind that removing magic from ponies seems to have some not insignificant physiological effects.  I agree that they definitely have at least some magic in them even during the events of the film.  For one, while half cutie marks (ones on just a single flank) definitely hints at a severe magic deficiency, but even that much requires some magic to even be possible.  However, the fact remains that ponies gave up a significant part of themselves, and of future generations of ponies, because that was clearly a more ideal option to them than tolerating the company of the other races.

[Splashee 28,564]

I believe something bad happened with that school of friendship. It wasn't meant to be.

Starlight, CMCs, and Student Six failed at some point, because G5 has spoken.

[NonBrony 9]

Okay,this is a little bit longer.So i separated into two replies.

 

This one is about WHEN.

 

(I didn't actually watched the movie.So i might be wrong.)

So, throughout the movie,i saw a thing that may gave us a hint of the timeframe of when the races seperated:SMARTPHONES.

 

So,let assume that the races STAND FIMRLY to their ground of not having anything to do with the other races.But then,EVERY RACE HAS SMARTPHONES.Thus,assuming that the world of G5 actually applies our world's timeline,which i assume that it is,the world of G5 is probably somewhere at least at 2000's.Maybe 2010-2020-ish.Then that means the separation must have at happened at few years ago.Or at most 10 YEARS AGO,or somewhere there.When i first saw some glimpse of the movie,my thought is like"hmmm,the division is somewhat recent." 

I fear that i might be wrong because maybe the ponies ONLY have smartphones AFTER PEGASI ENTERED THEIR WORLD.

 

And the IDW comic of G5 seems to kinda debunked this theory.But imma just keep leaving this here.

Edited June 27, 2022 by NonBrony

[NonBrony 9]

Okay ,and then this one isnt answering any of your question,but it is relatable.

 

I am going to post this too on another relatable topic,but i'll probably be lazy enough to type again and would probably just copy and paste this.

 

Man,i really have to gave props to my genius and idea here.I'm kinda ego with my idea and brain here.This is what pops up in my mind when i came up with this idea.

What if..........AN MLP VILLIAN KILLED OFF WINDIGOES?

(As my profile name states,i didn't actually watched MLP:FiM and the movie.Only watched some episodes there and forth and caught the glimpse of them.So i might be wrong.)

 

So,think of it.If the ponies decided to be racist against each other,WINDEGIOES HAPPENS.BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN.The ponies will be cautious.Division will not happen easily.But then,if there is no windigoes,THERE IS NOTHING TO BE AFRAID OF.Thus making the ponies be less cautious,easier to let division happen,because THERE IS NO CONSEQUENCES.Such a BEEG brain move there.

 

I might be wrong because maybe there is more than 1 consequences that will happen if the ponies decided to be racist against each other.

 

[Landi 600]

I have recently read the two MLP G5 comics that have been released so far, and I have some thought on them and their explanation for this. I will use a spoiler for those who haven't hear the comics yet.

Spoiler

While discord isn't the most trustworthy source, his explanation is that some time not long after Twilight becomes ruler of Equestria (maybe about three decades or so) some random unicorns starts spreading mistrust amongst the ponies. Just like that, they all start to fight just like in "The Ending of the End". Twilight then decides to create the unity crystals to force ponykind to get along or they will loose their magic. While that is where the explanation ends, my guess is that the actual separation either gradually took place over time, or something later down the road caused it.

If this explanation is to be trusted, than essentially Twilight already failed as ruler within the first 30-50 years of her rein. All the journey that took place across FiM only amounted to a few decades of prosperity under Twilight. Then she somehow lets havoc break lose upon Equestria causing ponykind to distrust one another. If all that wasn't bad enough, her "solution" is to create artifacts that force friendship upon her subjects. Artifacts that she could potentially have the power to control however she wants. This means that for the remainder of her rein, ponies friendship with each other is artificial rather than it be natural. The so called princess of friendship replaces natural friendship with an artificial kind. Keep in mind that Celestia kept ponykind together in harmony for over a Millennium without using crystals to force them to get along.  If this comic really is going to be the canon explanation, then this generation is going to end up like the star wars sequel trilogy. 

 

[Misty Shadow 7,875]

Now that the current explanation for the races separating in the comics has been spoiled for me...

Spoiler

I know I always have to be "that guy defending what's gotten everyone's jimmies rustled", but trust me, I don't plan this, I even have proof in this case. 

https://www.deviantart.com/cloudmistdragon/art/MLP-Analysis-The-Morality-of-Twilight-Sparkle-878108051

That's right, this writing of mine came out months before the G5 movie released. I get why Twilight taking away the ponies' magic, something they should have an unalienable right to, is not sitting well with some fans. It doesn't surprise me though because I always believed in Twilight having a flawed moral compass. My guess of her being led astray by corrupt ponies in her government may have been off, but I always had a feeling something like this would happen. This doesn't even compare to The Last Jedi (which I've learned is where everything bad is obliged to come back to), where they had Luke Skywalker try to kill his nephew in his sleep after everything he did to save his father. Twilight burned Sombra alive remorselessly and was shown to be more than capable of taking things too far in Lesson Zero and A Trivial Pursuit. Going too far to try and force the ponies to get along really isn't out of character or inconsistent for her. 

[HereComesTom 2,267]

Actually, I think the morality of it is a little more nuanced than the other posters are giving it credit for:

Spoiler

Oh---that's how you do spoilers; that eye-icon!

Well...

Here's my take on it:  what Twilight did was she took all the world's magic and tied it to those crystals.  Think about that for a moment:  no one can use magic except ponies, and even then, they can only do so if they're friends with each other.

One of the biggest consequences to this is that attacks from magic-wielding villains like windigos, Tirek, Discord, Queen Chrysalis, or (if he had this way) The Storm King, simply couldn't happen anymore:  ponykind would be safer than ever.  When you think about it, G-4 was Equestria-destroying threat after Equestria-destroying threat, and there was almost always magic behind the threat; if I were Twilight, I'd look for some permanent way to stop the attacks, and pulling all the magic in the world and making sure it can only function under certain moral conditions seems like the exact kind of solution she'd favor.

There's another consequence:  Ponies wouldn't be able to use magic to harm each other, because if they ever tried, the crystals would cease to function, and magic would disappear.

When you take all this into account, Twilight putting the magic in those crystals might just be the wisest thing she'd ever done.

Of course, even if everything I have in my spoiler tag is correct (and I know it may not be---people on this forum are good at poking holes in theories and philosophies like this), that doesn't answer this thread's question:  how did the tribes separate, and why?

It could be that some magical threat caused them to decide to separate and shut down magic for good.  Who knows?  It could be the fault of the dark alicorn we saw at the end of MYM's first episode!

[Steve Piranha 29,424]

I don’t think they were separated shortly after Last Problem, as the comics imply. Evidence of it being the abandoned Zephyr Heights train station. It not only shows ponies were still getting along, but the current settlements were already founded by then 

[Evil Pink One 13,506]

..... There's no connection of gen 4 and gen 5... Seriously i have no clue on how they'd properly connect the 2.... Its best that they don't connect the two OR this is one of starlight glimmer's branching time line. Where the the mane 6 doesn't exist. Alicorns don't grow. And twilight soloed the problem.

Im pretty sure hasbro is plummeting further down since they messed up Magic the gathering. The one that supports and carries the hasbro dimension. The originator of the spark.( Or maybe its transformers? But magic holds the spark for sure. Because they make the most money.)

 

That said i think it didnt take a thousand year to happen... Maybe 4 generations worth so maybe 150 years. Not a thousand years as the story implied.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Kujamih