mega thread Everypony's Religion And Why?

[-Octavia- 1,176]

The term atheist means literally "no god", an atheist is a person who specifically maintains that there is no god.

Actually it means without god (semantics, I suppose), and you are defining anti-theism. That is not to say that there are not anti-theistic atheists, but someone who is solely atheist will not explicitly assert the non-existence of a deity.

 

As for agnosticism, you are attempting to compare a lack of knowledge with indifference, and though they may have similar qualities, the distinction exists. An agnostic believes it is impossible to know whether or not a deity exists, and in some cases will believe that there is some higher power that simply has yet to be proven with sufficient knowledge. So it is still a belief that there may or may not be an as of yet unknown deity, and not, in fact a lack of belief.

 

Another way of seeing atheism is simply as nontheism. Where the agnostic will possibly involve themselves in religious, existential pondering, an atheist will not bother pondering anything of the sort because the matter is of little concern to them. (Which perhaps gives a bit of irony to me being here. But I do love a good debate, and you raise some excellent points)

 

 

As for your second paragraph: good point. One thing I would like to note, however: explaining "how things came to be" is not a trait exclusive to theism. Secular humanis(ts/m) for example, which is not classified as a religion, also attempt(s) to empirically—or what they believe to be empirically—explain how things came to be strictly with the use of science. This suggests to me that any group can explain such matters regardless of religion. Perhaps most atheists flock towards the Big Bang Theory, for instance. Not having watched the show myself, I cannot tell you whether or not it truly is funny.

 

 

 

It is wrong to claim that the burden of the proof lies on who makes assumptions, because this it will not possible to propose any axiom, then any reasoning will just be impossible.

Ah, and therein lies the crux of the matter, doesn't it? Everything is an assumption, as you so rightly said. There are few axioms outside of the field of mathematics that can be decisively agreed upon, which means that the burden of proof is always on the one making assumptions. And you are right: this means it is very difficult to reason with another side to the point where they unanimously reach the same conclusion. This clash in and of itself is an axiom that can be observed in the world; ultimately the side that wins is the one that assumed they had the better assumptions.

 

 

 

The burden of the proof lies on the person who tries to convince someone else of something.

No argument there, but can you honestly claim that theists/anti-theists are not dominant in this regard over nontheists who would much rather not be involved in the process?

 

 

 

If an atheist is trying to convince people that God does not exist, then he has the burden of the proof.

Which, if you comprehended my post, was my exact point. Atheists do not care. They are indifferent to the existence or non-existence of any number of deities, which means they really do not care enough to attack such beliefs. So no, there is no burden of proof on the atheist because—in their eyes—there is nothing to prove. You can tell me about how you worship the sheep god of life who promises eternal happiness, and I'm just going to smile and continue about my day without giving it a second thought. Live and let live, as they say.

 

But let me ask you this: what would you define me as, then (I am legitimately curious to hear your thoughts)? I do not care whether or not deities exist, though I acknowledge and accept that there are a variety of cultures that have their own respective deities and beliefs. I do not go out of my way to tell others that their beliefs are false, or otherwise attempt to convince them to align their beliefs to mine.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Wubtavia

[Steel Accord 6,658]

@,

 

I know your question wasn't to me but I agree with both you and @@Sunwalker, to different extents. In fact, I'm not really seeing a big disagreement between your points.

 

I will simply say that I appreciate your open mindedness and would certainly have one be undecided and respect my belief than decided and be my staunch enemy. In fact, I've often encountered those who are anti-theists and called me their enemy when I held no such ire to them. I have to say the experience was quite shaking. They knew nothing about me or my beliefs beyond that I have them and they treated me like I was a criminal.

[-Octavia- 1,176]

@@Steel Accord, Thank you, and I find such hostility as you describe (which can be found on both sides) to be quite unfortunate.

 

And as for @Sunwalker, now that I am once again reviewing various religious/non-religious practices, I can see where you are most likely coming from. There is a distinction between "Strong" and "Weak" beliefs, apparently, and I was basing my argument solely around "Weak" beliefs. You are correct in your definition of a "Strong" atheist. My apologies if I appeared confrontational or aggressive in any way.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Wubtavia

[Steel Accord 6,658]

 

 

Thank you, and I find such hostility as you describe (which can be found on both sides) to be quite unfortunate.

 

Oh yeah, no doubt about that. I have met such people and I don't think I've ever been more thoroughly creeped out. Thank God no atheist or gay people, or worse a gay atheist (a gaytheist? ) walked in at the time. I would have jumped to their defense as much for my sake as theirs and things may have gotten bloody. 

[Akari of Duskshire 581]

@@Steel Accord,

 

It's the kind of thing I'd like to think I'm capable of doing.  I'm alright with peoples' beliefs as long as they don't force it on others.  Like how someone I know got his head slammed into the ground because he wouldn't "accept Jesus".  I'd be just as mad if someone tried to beat agnosticism into someone else.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

@@Steel Accord,

 

It's the kind of thing I'd like to think I'm capable of doing.  I'm alright with peoples' beliefs as long as they don't force it on others.  Like how someone I know got his head slammed into the ground because he wouldn't "accept Jesus".  I'd be just as mad if someone tried to beat agnosticism into someone else.

 

WwwwwHAT?! I'd do WORSE to anyone pulling that shit in my line of sight! And because he's already committed assault, I'd be perfectly justified in breaking his arm and feeding him the sidewalk!  

 

I'm sorry, it's just that this shit really PISSES ME OFF! 

[Sunwalker 981]

As for your second paragraph: good point. One thing I would like to note, however: explaining "how things came to be" is not a trait exclusive to theism. Secular humanis(ts/m) for example, which is not classified as a religion, also attempt(s) to empirically—or what they believe to be empirically—explain how things came to be strictly with the use of science. This suggests to me that any group can explain such matters regardless of religion. Perhaps most atheists flock towards the Big Bang Theory, for instance. Not having watched the show myself, I cannot tell you whether or not it truly is funny.

Sorry, it seems I wasn't clear enough back then. What I meant was explaining things on the most fundamental level, not explaining how universe and life began, but explaining why reality and its laws exist in the first place. In other words, why there is something instead of nothing. The goal of Science is to explain how the natural laws work through systematic observation, and then making predictions from them. This does not conflict with the idea that God made the laws themselves. I accept both Science and my faith; @Steel Accord said above, I am both a chemist and a devout man

 

 

Which, if you comprehended my post, was my exact point. Atheists do not care. They are indifferent to the existence or non-existence of any number of deities, which means they really do not care enough to attack such beliefs. So no, there is no burden of proof on the atheist because—in their eyes—there is nothing to prove. You can tell me about how you worship the sheep god of life who promises eternal happiness, and I'm just going to smile and continue about my day without giving it a second thought. Live and let live, as they say.

You already explained on your next post what I was going to say, that there are different variants of atheism, namely "weak" and "strong". Both think that there are no god, but the former think that the non-existence of a god cannot be proven, while the later thinks that it can be proven.

 

 

But let me ask you this: what would you define me as, then (I am legitimately curious to hear your thoughts)? I do not care whether or not deities exist, though I acknowledge and accept that there are a variety of cultures that have their own respective deities and beliefs. I do not go out of my way to tell others that their beliefs are false, or otherwise attempt to convince them to align their beliefs to mine.

By the above definition, you seems like an weak atheist. But what I would define you is agnostic. Personally, I am not a big fan of applying qualifiers to the terms "atheist" or "agnostic", as I think this only adds up confusion. For me, an atheist is sure that there is no god at all, while the agnostic is not sure but does not believe in any god. That's simple enough for me

 

By the way, I think that our misunderstanding here was on the definition of the term "atheist". For me, being atheist does not has to do with trying to convince others or not, but with believing in a god or not. Someone can still be atheist, while not trying to convince or force other people. Same goes for theism.

 

Your definition of atheism includes not forcing other people, while forcing would be anti-theism. That definition also works. Sorry, I didn't understand before how you defined the terms

Edited September 23, 2015 by Sunwalker

[jeray2000 111]

Well I am/was a crystal child and I just always believed in paganism,even back when my mother tried to make me christian. I have magic abilities and a very strong connection to nature so paganism just feels right to me.

Could you explain to me how your magic abilities work? I don't know much about paganism, and given the way I've been raised about magic, your belief sounds almost like a satire to me. I'm curious to know more about it and why science denies it.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Could you explain to me how your magic abilities work? I don't know much about paganism, and given the way I've been raised about magic, your belief sounds almost like a satire to me. I'm curious to know more about it and why science denies it.

 

She never said anything about "science denying her magic." I won't speak or answer for her, but I DO have an understanding of Pagan faiths and their relation to magic.

[MischiefHowl 37]

While I was born and baptized a Catholic. I am learning Paganism and Wicca.

I feel that it is my true calling and choice even though my family would freak if they ever learned of this.

xD I'd also say I am Equestreism cause that is perfect and actually needs to be a actual thing

[Steel Accord 6,658]

While I was born and baptized a Catholic. I am learning Paganism and Wicca.

I feel that it is my true calling and choice even though my family would freak if they ever learned of this.

xD I'd also say I am Equestreism cause that is perfect and actually needs to be a actual thing

 

So is it Wicca or Equestreism? Not that I disagree, because I would call myself the ladder as well. Really I think anyone who watches the show can, that's what's good about it, it can supplement ANY moral or philosophic framework.

 

Just as a practicing Catholic who once dated a Wiccan though, I'd say good for you finding your own path. No one who feels their religion is not bringing them internal peace should feel pressured to follow it. That you didn't abandon your faith altogether and instead found another, I greatly applaud.

[ShadowFoxz 342]

I am a Atheist/Satanist, I chose the path as I value the truth and science as well as well as to revolt agaisnt the stereotypes surrounding us Satanists/Atheists and teach critcal thinking and deciding things for yourself.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Melly

[Espada12 17]

When I was religious I had a hard life so I gave that up

It couldnt have happened soon enough because I got everything I wanted in return which makes sense

Im formerly religious 

[Steel Accord 6,658]

I am a Atheist/Satanist, I chose the path as I value the truth and science as well as well as to revolt agaisnt the stereotypes surrounding us Satanists/Atheists and teach critcal thinking and deciding things for yourself.

 

Wait, I know Satanists don't actually worship the Devil, but I also have a Satanist friend who would describe her path as a religion. So, how can you be a Satanist, which IS a religion, and be an atheist, the very lack of a religion?

[ShadowFoxz 342]

Wait, I know Satanists don't actually worship the Devil, but I also have a Satanist friend who would describe her path as a religion. So, how can you be a Satanist, which IS a religion, and be an atheist, the very lack of a religion?

Because I believe in both Satanism's and Atheism's Values and principals of life. Doing so has allowed me to fine tune myself as I dont listen to binarized structures

[-Octavia- 1,176]

Wait, I know Satanists don't actually worship the Devil, but I also have a Satanist friend who would describe her path as a religion. So, how can you be a Satanist, which IS a religion, and be an atheist, the very lack of a religion?

If I recall correctly, they only take the values of satan and apply it to themselves to enhance certain human traits like egotism or, well, whichever traits satan values. Atheistic satanism and theistic satanism are indeed two separate but established trains of thought.

[Akari of Duskshire 581]

@,

 

You have me interested now.  Could you perhaps tell me what parts of Satanism you believe in and take to heart?  I'd love to know!  

[Espada12 17]

Because I believe in both Satanism's and Atheism's Values and principals of life. Doing so has allowed me to fine tune myself as I dont listen to binarized structures

What are you saying now, Melly? You said that last week but actually it was all about Satanism and atheism wasnt the point. By the way how can anyone be an atheist in the 21st century? Our god Athos is funny but not for long

[ShadowFoxz 342]

@,

 

You have me interested now.  Could you perhaps tell me what parts of Satanism you believe in and take to heart?  I'd love to know!  

I take to heart the parts where we are responsible to ourselves, we owe no god or deity anything. I also value liberty. I feel we use steal others liberty and judgement by indocrinating others. My path was nobody's but my choice.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Because I believe in both Satanism's and Atheism's Values and principals of life. Doing so has allowed me to fine tune myself as I dont listen to binarized structures

 

 

If I recall correctly, they only take the values of satan and apply it to themselves to enhance certain human traits like egotism or, well, whichever traits satan values. Atheistic satanism and theistic satanism are indeed two separate but established trains of thought.

 

Fair enough. I concede to both of your points.

 

For the word count though I will elaborate that this is a practicing Catholic saying that I have no problem with these schools of thought.

What are you saying now, Melly? You said that last week but actually it was all about Satanism and atheism wasnt the point. By the way how can anyone be an atheist in the 21st century? Our god Athos is funny but not for long

 

I'm sorry who? Unless that was meant as a joke. I would also contest that saying no one can be an atheist in the 21st century is untrue. We all have free will, and the ability to choose our own beliefs, including whether or not to have faith.

[ShadowFoxz 342]

What are you saying now, Melly? You said that last week but actually it was all about Satanism and atheism wasnt the point. By the way how can anyone be an atheist in the 21st century? Our god Athos is funny but not for long

What are you talking about? I havent posted in a very long time.

People can be atheists in the 21st centry as it's their choice and what they want. You may not like but thats reality

[Steel Accord 6,658]

I take to heart the parts where we are responsible to ourselves, we owe no god or deity anything. I also value liberty. I feel we use steal others liberty and judgement by indocrinating others. My path was nobody's but my choice.

 

Again, all virtues and ways of thinking I would laud as noble. However, could you say the same for my faith? That there is a benevolent deity, that we are all given the freedom to be the best that we can be but also the freedom to fail in that? (Really when I say it like that, they sound similar enough.)

[-Octavia- 1,176]

I wonder about that. You say you are given freedom by your deity to be what you can be. Perhaps one might then feel a subconscious obligation to such a deity, as opposed to those claiming freedom for themselves?

 

At least, that is how I felt in Catholic school.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Wubtavia

[Akari of Duskshire 581]

 

 

we are responsible to ourselves

 

I definitely agree with that.  Maybe there is a god or some higher being or two in this world, but even if there is, it's not like they're holding our hands.  Ultimately, it all falls on us to become better and to make the world better.

 

I too value liberty, but there's always that saying: "Where one's freedom ends, another's begin."

[Steel Accord 6,658]

I wonder about that. You say you are given freedom by your deity to be what you can be. Perhaps one might then feel a subconscious obligation to such a deity, as opposed to those claiming freedom for themselves?

 

At least, that is how I felt in Catholic school.

 

Certainly I feel grateful to God for many things. Is it wrong to be thankful for having life, liberty, and certain creature comforts I've been afforded? To want to make the most out of those gifts in a positive way? To BE the best me that I can be?

 

I ask again, are these desires and gratitudes ignoble?