Extreme measures, Pinkie Pie style

[DrAltaica 13]

"She's a grump, and a thief, and a bully. The meanest kind of mean meanie-pants there is. I can take it, but no one treats Fluttershy like that. No. One. This calls for" the greatest welcome to Ponyville party?

 

 

Twilight Sparkle: You've met Gilda, right? What's she like?

Fluttershy: Oh, um, well, I'll tell you later, Twilight.

Pinkie Pie: Welcome. Welcome.

Fluttershy: Um, Pinkie Pie, about this party for Gilda. Umm... Do you really think it's a good idea? I mean–

 

How come Fluttershy knows Gilda better than her suppose friend?

[Faceless 101]

I get your point on Pinkie setting up the party. Maybe she did it to show people what kind of a griffin Gilda was? Then Twilight would believe Pinkie if she showed her.

 

I don't really get your second point on Fluttershy... Fluttershy has had a close encounter with Gilda that she didn't like, so she's not sure on Pinkie's motives for the party. I don't see any plot hole there...

[Mortimer 332]

Yeah, like the above poster said, Pinkie Pie wanted to throw a party to try and change Gilda's attitude and maybe to uncover her bully behaviour. As for Fluttershy, she had a close encounter with Gilda and was affraid the party would turn up for worse.

Edited December 31, 2012 by Regigas

[Leafeon 2,702]

No. It means she is going to wear a mustache.

 

I think she was going to see if Gilda was changeable. She was going to see if she could be friends with Gilda, but then Gilda lost it. I /do/ think Pinkie was a bit out of character that episode, but mostly because they hadn't established her well yet. Not to mention this was the episode Pinkie was befriending Rainbow.

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

What happens in Griffon the Brush Off.

 

Gilda returns to town, and Rainbow Dash is extremely happy to see one of her old friends again. They have loads of fun spending time together. Pinkie Pie, having just bonded with Rainbow Dash, wants in on the fun. Gilda wants Dash all for herself, which is reasonable, however rather than asking Pinkie for some space, she insults and then attacks her. Pinkie goes to Twilight who ignores Pinkie's legitimate concerns, she certainly was jealous but that doesn't make her wrong about Gilda's general unpleasantness. In order to make sure that she didn't misjudge Gilda she decides to follow her around, during which time Gilda steals, screws with Granny Smith and bullies Flutttershy. Pinkie, being the lovable soul she is, decided to throw a party to try and improve Gilda's attitude rather than tell Rainbow Dash that her friend was a total jerk. Gilda shows up at the party and due to bad luck was hit with all of Rainbow Dash's pranks. Gilda freaked out at Pinkie, assuming that she caused everything , insulted all of Dash's friends and demanded that Rainbow leave with her. Rainbow revealed that she was the cause of the pranks and then confronted Gilda, disappointed with how she completely demeaned all of her best friends. Gilda decided that Rainbow Dash wasn't cool enough for her and left, saying that Dash could come back when she was less lame. Rainbow Dash being the Element of Loyalty, when her loyalties were in conflict rightfully decided to stay with the rest of the mane 6, since a friend who tries to play you off against your other friends and treats everyone you know terribly isn't a friend at all. Rainbow decided that Pinkie Pie was a better friend than Gilda ever was, they all continued the party, Twilight wrote to Celestia, roll credits.

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,695]

This is a tough one. It's the one time in MLP that Pinkie disliked another pony, and she really didn't like her. I have a hard time believing that the barrage of embarrassing pranks Gilda walked into at the party was just a coincidence, and I don't blame her for not buying it either.

 

If you recall, Rainbow Dash claimed that she was the one who set them up and Gilda "just happened" to walk into them all. That's possible, but not very probable. My secret theory is that Pinkie innocently went to Dash for some fun prank ideas, but SHE was the one who set them up at the party and led Gilda on from one to the next.

 

Underhanded/underhoofed? Doesn't sound like Pinkie at all? I agree on both counts. But it's more likely than the explanation we got. It's also far more realistic for Pinkie to have a subtle, trollish dark side like she displayed here, than to totally lose it like she did in "Party of One."

Edited December 30, 2012 by TailsAlone

[DrAltaica 13]

 In order to make sure that she didn't misjudge Gilda she decides to follow her around, during which time Gilda steals, screws with Granny Smith and bullies Flutttershy.

And what makes you think Gilda was screwing with Granny Smith, and not just trying to steal from the cart when Granny Smith catches her?

[Gone Airbourne 21,977]

DashForever pretty much answered everything!

 

What I got out of the episode...

 

Gilda= Eagle/Lion very awesome

 

At end of the episode. Gilda = the meanest meanie kind of meanie pants that there ever was. She needs to watch her ego and all....

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

And what makes you think Gilda was screwing with Granny Smith, and not just trying to steal from the cart when Granny Smith catches her?

Well she did appear to be laughing about it a moment later, but perhaps she was just attempting to steal something. Either way, she's not exactly endearing herself to me.

[DrAltaica 13]

I get your point on Pinkie setting up the party. Maybe she did it to show people what kind of a griffin Gilda was? Then Twilight would believe Pinkie if she showed her.

Then Gilda was right When she Called Pinkie Pie out. Pinkie was trying to get Gilda to loose her cool and make a fool of herself. and She ruins RD and Gilda's friendship just to prove She was right to Twilight.

 

And why does Pinkie say, "Me? I threw this party to improve your attitude. I thought a good party might turn that frown upside down." instead of something like "I threw this party to show Ponyville you are big meanie grumpy mean-meanie-pants"?

Why would Pinkie Pie lie about her reasons about throwing the party after Gilda loses it? What could possible explain that other that Pinkie Pie is evil?

I think she was going to see if Gilda was changeable. She was going to see if she could be friends with Gilda, but then Gilda lost it.

But Pinkie never confronts Gilda about her behavior. Pinkie never tells Gilda she is behaving badly, and never suggests any ways Gilda could change. Pinkie doesn't go "Gilda I know we got off on the wrong hoof but can we be friend?"

 

You says, "She was going to see if she could be friends with Gilda, but then Gilda lost it."

But what?

 

It isn't like Gilda lost it at the party unprovoked, or even like she lost it before Pinkie had a change to make up with.

 

Pinkie has two conversations With Gilda at the party before Gilda looses it, nether of which is Gilda able to get Pinkie to take seriously.

 

Pinkie doesn't pay any attention to Gilda's feelings, that is not how you make friends or change people, at lest not change people for the better.

 

If Gilda hadn't lost it how would have the party ended?

 

I have a hard time believing that the barrage of embarrassing pranks Gilda walked into at the party was just a coincidence, and I don't blame her for not buying it either.

Remember the Golden Rule, "do unto others as you would have them to onto you."

Is someone had thrown Pinkie a party and made sure Pinkie started in all the pranks She would have loved it.

 

That doesn't really get tip the scales to one side or the other.

 

Is Pinkie trying to change Gilda from being a big meanie grumpy mean-meanie-pants, or is she trying to show Ponyville that Gilda is a big meanie grumpy mean-meanie-pants?

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

As of A Friend in Deed, it is canon that Pinkie Pie wants to be friends with EVERYONE. No matter how much they dislike her. That is why she threw the party, as stated in the episode. Rainbow Dash set up all of the pranks, and there is nothing to indicate that Pinkie manipulated Gilda into setting them off. I haven't seen any examples of her being vindictive or vengeful in any other episodes, and I don't see it in this episode either. The two conversations that Pinkie had with Gilda were the result of a misunderstanding, as Pinkie had no idea about all the pranks that Dash set up, and as she solely threw the party to try to integrate Gilda into their social circle, when Gilda said that she knew what Pinkie was up to she responded fairly casually, after all she had nothing to hide.

Pinkie did not talk to Gilda about her behavior that is true. Her hope was that the party would let Gilda show a kinder and gentler side to her personality. The one to call Gilda out was Dash in the end which might be more appropriate. Since Gilda is her friend it is her job to let Gilda know when she is out of line. In any case I don't see anyone complaining about how Gilda didn't talk to Pinkie about giving her some time alone with Dash before sending her plummeting to her doom. I would personally view that as a greater crime than anything Pinkie is being accused of, but the difference is that Pinkie is innocent of these accusations.

[DrAltaica 13]

As of A Friend in Deed, it is canon that Pinkie Pie wants to be friends with EVERYONE. No matter how much they dislike her. That is why she threw the party, as stated in the episode.

right. which is why Pinkie Pie is my favorite pony.

 

But Gilda has never met Pinkie Pie before. I think Gilda is justified in doubting Pinkie's "You're a big mean grumpy mean-meany-pants! Please be my friends."

Rainbow Dash set up all of the pranks, and there is nothing to indicate that Pinkie manipulated Gilda into setting them off.

But who did manipulate Gilda into setting them off?

Dash admits that Pinkie Pie doing the hoof-buzzer was her idea.

The trick birthday candles and spitting snakes in the present.  Who did Dash think would be the victims?

and Dash is the one that tells Gilda to go for the dribble glass.

which means the only one Gilda just happen to stumble on was the Peppered lemon drops.

 

And it is classic Dash to ignore that she his hurting her friends feelings when she is 'helping' them.

 

 

The two conversations that Pinkie had with Gilda were the result of a misunderstanding, as Pinkie had no idea about all the pranks that Dash set up, and as she solely threw the party to try to integrate Gilda into their social circle, when Gilda said that she knew what Pinkie was up to she responded fairly casually, after all she had nothing to hide.

 

Pinkie did not talk to Gilda about her behavior that is true. Her hope was that the party would let Gilda show a kinder and gentler side to her personality.

And Gilda does show Pinkie a kinder Gentler side than Pinkie has got to see.  When has Gilda been anything other than curt?

When the fake Fluttershy starts backing over the ducks she looses her temper at her.

When Pinkie ignores both Dash's and Gilda's attempts to get Pinkie to leave them alone.

When she trips in the kitchen and comes out with frosting and cake batter and the tail on her beak like a mustache and then  Pinkie makes fun of her and the whole party laughs, after all ready being prodded by Pinkie, Pinkie, Pinkie, Dash, Dash, Dash, Dash, Spike, and Pinkie again.

 

 

 

 

The one to call Gilda out was Dash in the end which might be more appropriate.

Yeah yeah, I know that unlike most informal fallacies, Begging the Question is a validating form of argument. So your going to ask "If the premisses of an instance of Begging the Question happen to be true, then the argument is sound. What is wrong, then, with Begging the Question?"

 

First of all, not all circular reasoning is fallacious. Suppose, for instance, that we argue that a number of propositions, p₁,p₂,…, p_n are equivalent by arguing as follows (where "p => q" means that p implies q):

p₁ => p₂ => … => p_n => p₁

Then we have clearly argued in a circle, but this is a standard form of argument in mathematics to show that a set of propositions are all equivalent to each other. So, when is it fallacious to argue in a circle?

 

For an argument to have any epistemological or dialectical force, it must start from premises already known or believed by its audience, and proceed to a conclusion not known or believed. This, of course, rules out the worst cases of Begging the Question, when the conclusion is the very same proposition as the premise  since one cannot both believe and not believe the same thing. A viciously circular argument is one with a conclusion based ultimately upon that conclusion itself, and such arguments can never advance our knowledge.

 

You can't justify Dash waiting until Gilda looses her temp to confront her when Gilda looses her temp because nopony confronts her her for being out of line.

 

Since Gilda is her friend it is her job to let Gilda know when she is out of line.

But if Pinkie  wants to Be Gilda's friend then she should act like one.  

And I'm pretty sure being a friend means letting them know when they are out of line.

 

 In any case I don't see anyone complaining about how Gilda didn't talk to Pinkie about giving her some time alone with Dash before sending her plummeting to her doom.

Since Pinkie is Dash's friend it is Dash's job to let Pinkie know when she is out of line. 

As the start of the episode makes clear Pinkie is obsessed with Dash and wont leave her alone.

 

Dash lets Pinkie use her as a door mate.

 

Which leaves Gilda to stand up for her friend Dash.

 

Gilda does talk to Pinkie about giving her some time alone with Dash before sending her plummeting to her doom.

 

"Don't you know how to take get lost for an answer? Dash doesn't need to hang with a dweeb like you now that I'm around."

Then their is the part where Gilda insults Pinkie Pie some more. where Pinkie could have done something, then Gilda sends Pinkie plummeting to her doom.

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

But Gilda has never met Pinkie Pie before. I think Gilda is justified in doubting Pinkie's "You're a big mean grumpy mean-meany-pants! Please be my friends."

Pinkie, to Gilda's face, is nothing but complimentary the entire episode. The only person she complains to about Gilda's behavior is Twilight.

 

As for the pranks, the problem with Gilda's response to them is

1: She blames the wrong people

2: When Dash is upset with Gilda for ripping on the entire party and reveals that she set up the pranks, Gilda rather than saying something like "I'm sorry that I accused and insulted all of you baselessly, please forgive me. Dash would you mind cooling it with the pranks? I think I've had enough." didn't apologize for her incorrect allegations, insulted Dash and flew off.

 

And Gilda does show Pinkie a kinder Gentler side than Pinkie has got to see. When has Gilda been anything other than curt?

Curt does not equal kind and gentle. And I suppose Gilda did show a kinder and gentler side of herself at the party. She did not make any apologetic ponies cry, she didn't steal anything and she didn't wreck anyone's property sending them falling hundreds of feet without any way to save themselves. Give her a medal. She still insulted an entire party groundlessly and refused to apologize for it.

You can't justify Dash waiting until Gilda looses her temp to confront her when Gilda looses her temp because nopony confronts her her for being out of line.

I absolutely can, because it was the first time that Dash had any indication of how Gilda was treating her friends. When I was young my friend stole one of my books and I didn't know for weeks, and I didn't confront him over it until I found out. Gilda does something wrong, Dash sees it, Dash voices her concern. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.  

But if Pinkie wants to Be Gilda's friend then she should act like one. And I'm pretty sure being a friend means letting them know when they are out of line.

You seem to have a problem with both Dash letting Gilda know that she was out of line and Pinkie not letting Gilda know that she was out of line. Pinkie tried to resolve the problem in her own way, by trying to give Gilda an opportunity to interact with everyone and not be a jerk to them. Perhaps she should have confronted Gilda earlier, but she was only trying to take a softer approach. It seems contradictory to condemn Dash calling Gilda out in this light though.

Dash lets Pinkie use her as a door mate.

Initially she did let Pinkie pester her into doing something, however Dash clearly enjoyed doing it and spending time with her by the end. Sometimes my brother has to convince me to play games with him, but my agreement and enjoyment of the activities means that my brother is not using me as a doormat. Dash on the second day actually wanted to spend time with Pinkie eventually, showing cheer that she was around and wondering where she was after Gilda got rid of her. Gilda is not looking out for what Dash wants, she is looking out for what Gilda wants.

Gilda does talk to Pinkie about giving her some time alone with Dash before sending her plummeting to her doom. "Don't you know how to take get lost for an answer? Dash doesn't need to hang with a dweeb like you now that I'm around." Then their is the part where Gilda insults Pinkie Pie some more. where Pinkie could have done something, then Gilda sends Pinkie plummeting to her doom.

On a completely literal sense yes, Gilda did talk to Pinkie before attacking her. And what could Pinkie have done precisely? She is in the sky, she cannot fly, and Gilda wrecks her helicopter the exact second she finishes her sentence. That is not a proper request for Pinkie to stop either, as she doesn't give Pinkie a chance to stop what she is doing. It's like me being on the bus, someone next to me is bothering me by being on the phone, and me yelling at them to stop and punching them in the face right afterwards. My response in that situation would be wrong because the person was not given a chance to stop their behavior and assault is a vastly disproportionate response to anything Pinkie or the hypothetical cell phone talker was doing.

 

I also find it interesting that you have a greater issue with Pinkie accidentally pestering Gilda than Gilda purposefully sending Pinkie plummeting to her doom. The second infraction would be the one that I, and any court worth anything, would take issue with. 

[Shift 4,272]

Technically, the Prankster ruined Pinkie's party, not the griffon. If the prankster hadn't made those pranks we wouldn't have had a problem.

 

Pinkie made the party to maybe open Gilda up a bit and give her a better attitude, or if that didn't work, uncover her for the bully she was.

 

She should try that on You-Know-That-****y-Filly

[Party Cannon 876]

I personally enjoyed the M.Night Shyamalan ending to this episode.

 

Like others have said, Pinkie Pie did not initially like Gilda, yet she wanted to throw the party for her because she has the mindset that parties fix things, in this case people.

 

Obviously the clever writing wants to point all the sh*t that is happening to Gilda to Pinkie, but it was actually Rainbow Dash. It's good writing! What a twist!

 

Gilda, having a bad personality, assumes that everyone else has similar motives. It's like when a cheater accuses their spouse of cheating. Pinkie Pie is beyond stooping to Gilda's level and she couldn't accept that.

[Acoustic Cloud 2,202]

I'm pretty sure that she just threw the party as a cover up to get Gilda on her own and then make some wholly-delicious cupcakes...

[Starswirl the Trixie 975]

I was going to let this thread die, but the use of formal logic "p"s and "q"s caught my eye.

 

Yeah yeah, I know that unlike most informal fallacies, Begging the Question is a validating form of argument. So your going to ask "If the premisses of an instance of Begging the Question happen to be true, then the argument is sound. What is wrong, then, with Begging the Question?"
 
First of all, not all circular reasoning is fallacious. Suppose, for instance, that we argue that a number of propositions, p₁,p₂,…, p_n are equivalent by arguing as follows (where "p => q" means that p implies q):
p₁ => p₂ => … => p_n => p₁
Then we have clearly argued in a circle, but this is a standard form of argument in mathematics to show that a set of propositions are all equivalent to each other. So, when is it fallacious to argue in a circle?
 
For an argument to have any epistemological or dialectical force, it must start from premises already known or believed by its audience, and proceed to a conclusion not known or believed. This, of course, rules out the worst cases of Begging the Question, when the conclusion is the very same proposition as the premise  since one cannot both believe and not believe the same thing. A viciously circular argument is one with a conclusion based ultimately upon that conclusion itself, and such arguments can never advance our knowledge.

First of all, it should be pointed out that the quoted material is copypasta from the website it links to.  Look here for proof: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/begquest.html

 

Second of all, this sort of copypasta without a colloquial explanation comes off as a sort of way to silence critics by using terminology that they can't understand and thus can't reply to.  The copypasta in question is just a long-winded explanation of why a certain type of fallacy is fallacious.

 

And finally...how in the wide world of Equestria does that apply here?

 

Let me restate DashForever's argument.

1) Pinkie threw the party in an attempt to befriend Gilda or show her nicer side.

2) Pinkie didn't set up the pranks, and likely had no knowledge of them.  (Not much evidence for the second part, but that doesn't mean a fallacy).

3) The pranks were set up by Rainbow and Rainbow was the one who argued with Gilda in the end.

4)Therefore the one more responsible for what happened was Rainbow Dash.

 

The reason you call it a fallacy, if I presume correctly, is because you think points #1-2 and #4 are the same.  That's just not true; they're similar, but different.

 

#1-2 provide a points about Pinkie's motivations and actions, stating what they were.  #4, on the other hand, makes a conclusion based off of those motivations and actions, stating that Pinkie's responsibility is less than that of Rainbow Dash.  If #4 had been to conclude that Pinkie Pie intended the best, then that indeed would be a fallacy, but it doesn't conclude that.  The conclusion cannot be found in any of its predicates, therefore the argument is logically sound.

 

By the way, after this thread started losing popularity the OP made a new thread accusing Rainbow Dash of having the primary role in the disasters of "Griffin the Brush Off"...which technically means that the OP agrees with DashForever's point, even though the former called it a fallacy.

 

Which would actually makes the criticism of fallacy far more fallacious than what was being criticized...

[DrAltaica 13]

 

 

But Gilda has never met Pinkie Pie before. I think Gilda is justified in doubting Pinkie's "You're a big mean grumpy mean-meany-pants! Please be my friends."

Pinkie, to Gilda's face, is nothing but complimentary the entire episode. The only person she complains to about Gilda's behavior is Twilight.

 

 

And Gilda has no other way of knowing that she is being mean to Pinkie? Really?

Gilda is right in assuming that Pinkie Pie is being disingenuous in acting like she doesn't notice how Gilda is acting.

 

 

 

You can't justify Dash waiting until Gilda looses her temp to confront her when Gilda looses her temp because nopony confronts her her for being out of line.

I absolutely can, because it was the first time that Dash had any indication of how Gilda was treating her friends. When I was young my friend stole one of my books and I didn't know for weeks, and I didn't confront him over it until I found out. Gilda does something wrong, Dash sees it, Dash voices her concern. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

 

 

That should have been:

You can't justify Pinkie waiting for Dash until Gilda looses her temp to confront her when Gilda looses her temp because nopony confronts her her for being out of line.

And finally...how in the wide world of Equestria does that apply here?

Like I said, if the words I wrote matched the idea's in my head....

 

I complained about, well..." Pinkie, to Gilda's face, is nothing but complimentary the entire episode. The only person she complains to about Gilda's behavior is Twilight." as DashForever put it.

 

 

DashForever said:

Pinkie did not talk to Gilda about her behavior that is true. Her hope was that the party would let Gilda show a kinder and gentler side to her personality. The one to call Gilda out was Dash in the end which might be more appropriate. Since Gilda is her friend it is her job to let Gilda know when she is out of line.

I don't think is appropriate to Pinkie Pie to let Gilda go on being grumpy and mean just because Gilda's Dash's friend. Even if it is better for Dash to confront Gilda, Pinkie Pie could have told Dash.

 

When Gilda looses her temper at the party is the first time that Dash had any indication of how Gilda was treating her friends. Which means Dash is supposed to confront Gilda about Something she doesn't know about.

 

By the way, after this thread started losing popularity the OP made a new thread accusing Rainbow Dash of having the primary role in the disasters of "Griffin the Brush Off"...which technically means that the OP agrees with DashForever's point, even though the former called it a fallacy.

DashForever don't seem to think Gilda as justified in thinking it wasn't an accident that she was the victim of every prank.

 

Maybe Gilda should have realized Dash was the one playing the pranks and then it would have been "*roar* This is your idea of a good time? I've never met a lamer bunch of dweebs in all my life. And Rainbow Dash, you! You are queen lame-o with your weak little party pranks. Did you really think you could make me lose my cool? Well, I have ten times as much cool as all of you put together. I'm bailing on this pathetic scene."

 

 

 

My problem with Dash's confronting Gilda at the end....

Dash starts with "So I guess I'm queen lame-o." (trying to make you lose your cool)

then after Dash tell Gilda that she is the one responsible for the pranks she doesn't apologize to Gilda. Instead Dash makes excuses, "They weren't all meant for you specifically," then redirects blame to Gilda, "you set them all off."

 

And "And you sure didn't need any help making a fool of yourself." sounds a bit vindictive when with out that prelude

 

"You know, this is not how I thought my old friends would treat my new friends. If being cool is all you care about, maybe you should go find some new cool friends someplace else." It sounds like more of Dash trying not to take responsibility for going to far with the pranks.

 

What is Gilda supposed to do after that, tell Pinkie, "I'm sorry, I'd assumed this winged blue donkey was my friend and not a douche. oh ant the rest of you, you are way cooler the Rainbow Dash."?