CGI Timberwolves?

[sampsoninc916 27]

I don't hate CGI, as a matter of fact, The Lord of the Rings trilogy pushed the boundaries of 3D CGI effects by adding Gollum and the most advanced rendered creatures up to that point. Avatar, though I kinda hate it because of ripping off Ferngully, Pocahontas, and Dances with Wolves, pushed the boundaries again with its motion capture humanoid Smurfs. Weta Digital, the company behind all this, has an R&D department that continues to innovate on this technology. Now of course, CGI sometimes ruins a movie, and probably the worst CGI scene, in my opinion, is the parachute surfing scene in Die Another Day (thank gracious for Skyfall doing it right, even though the CGI komodo dragon was obvious).

 

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, as some of you may know, is done using Flash, a 2D animation software that lets the animator create 2D animation all within the computer. Yet during Spike at Your Service, me, and so many other folks watching the episode, noticed that the Timberwolves were 3D computer generated characters, albeit 2D to fit with the whole scheme of My Little Pony.

 

Should I be bothered by it, because I really wasn't bothered too much by it, yet like the fact that Timberwolves regenerate themselves and turn into bigger creatures. When I saw that, I kinda wanted to go crazy, yet realized that in The Monster Squad, the Wolfman regenerates its limbs when it dies. Would this be a jumping the shark moment for MLP:FIM?

 

I wouldn't want the show to jump the shark too soon, but I know that it will eventually. Some people hated the CGI timberwolves, but I believe that's a matter of opinion. At least the show is doing some new things, because it's budget may be improving, yet I shouldn't expect someone like Joseph Gordon Lewitt or Christian Bale on the show. I hope you follow me, but what opinions do some of you guys have on the CGI timberwolves?

Edited December 31, 2012 by Feld0
Added some spacing to improve legibility.

[Firelord Derpy 312]

I think it was simply a way of making it easier to animate. Like how in Avatar the last Airbender the Fire Nation tanks and Airships were CGI. As long as it looks like the rest of the show I'm fine with it.

[duidamasterXD 9,627]

If they used it much more then I wouldn't like it, but as a way of making a monster look more intimidating I loved it. I think that the regeneration and their shattering wouldn't have looked as good if they animated it like they do everything else. So yeah I thought the Timberwolves were great, but they shouldn't use that style of animation when it isn't necessary.

[Tall_But_Short_37 236]

I think it's good that they're experimenting with different elements and animation styles to add into the show, but this seemed a bit too out of place for my taste. It was interesting to see, but I'd rather they not try it again.

[NavelColt 22,883]

I think they're pretty bad-ass. We've seen that animation with some of Sombra before, and in previous seasons a few times. Works fine with me.

[ComradeUncleJoe 29]

I liked it! The Timberwolves looked so freaking badass. At first I didn't notice it, but when the wolves came out of the forest towards the end, I noticed it straight away. To me, the CGI makes them looked more scary. So long as they don't get carried away with CGI, I'm sure everything will be fine.

[WWAPD 126]

I kind of thought the CGI made the timberwolves look a bit out of place. I mean sure, they looked nice, but 3d animation in a 2d world will always look a little weird, in my opinion. I just hope they don't overuse it.

[Dusty Soul 2,613]

It made them SO much more intimidating in my opinion.  It's truly amazing how much time they took to make the Timberwolves.  I mean every single part.  I loved the CGI it made the scenes SO badass.

[Veylon 255]

I felt that it was integrated really well. And by "integrated" I mean kept completely separate. There was at all times a green glow keeping the 3D and 2D from each other's throats. Compare and Contrast with Titan A.E.

 

I also find it somewhat interesting (and humorous) that Computer Generated Images are being criticized for being in a cartoon that is animated entirely in Flash!

[Winona the Dog 1,984]

I thought they were just experimenting with the CGI to see if it works wellvwith the audience. Sine it seems to bd a mixed bag of reactions im sure they' ll sneak in some more CGI in future episodes. As for my opinion I don't mind it as long as it doesn't take over the show. I knowAvayar The Last Airbender used perfect harmony between 2D animation and 3D animation. Hopefully MLP can do the same.

[Viscra Maelstrom 3,719]

i think it works nicely in the way it was used in. CGI doesn't necessarily have to amount to "another Michael Barf flick". sure, the animation style differed from everything else being handdrawn, but i do think it fits nicely to make the TImberwolves stand out more from the rest of the show. it makes them feel fare more intimidating and real than if they should have been handdrawn.

 

also, why would they ever change the entire way the show is animated to towards CGI? the crew apparently enjoys making the show as lush and colourful it is now. making the Timberwolves animated like that was most likely a case of it being far easier to animate than actually drawing them.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Princess Viscra Maelstrom

[Chales 129]

I wasn't too bothered by the timber wolfs too much. They did seem a little out of place but it also made them seem dangerous. They lacked the life the other monsters had and this made them seem dead and creeper. I do hope they try to experiment with cgi more.

[SrFrog 927]

I wouldn't call the CGI Wolves a, "jumping the shark" moment as that would of required more focus on them through the episode. It's just nice to see some new animation techniques go into the show, and it's not overwhelming that it detracts from the animation.

 

Honestly, I don't see why the CG wolves were so badly received afterwards.

[Anadu Kune 668]

Having worked in flash a lot, I think they did this out of necessity. The timber wolves are composed of many individual parts that are used to their full extent in the transformation and crumbling scenes. Flash has a tendency to crumble under pressure when you have just the right number of symbols in a scene. This is why in some big crowd scenes a number actual ponies turn into an image. By using 3D on the timber wolves they took the pressure off of flash and didnt have to restrict the tiber wolves in terms of animation.

 

edit: I should mention I didnt find them distracting. I found them pretty well integrated and to be honest it might be one of the best integrations of CG and 2D I have seen.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Anadu Kune

[Discovery Dream 592]

Timberwolves would be a pain to animate, CGI made that easier. Lots of cartoons use it, it's a saving grace when animating more complex objects and characters. I personally don't have a problem with it.

[Brook 663]

Oh, really? I didn't notice at all dude, looked totally 2D to me, but if you say so...

I don't really care that much about CGI to be perfectly honest, and I even have an interest in old mid 90's CGI myself, as in I want to learn to do it.

So I don't know, guess I don't view it as a bad thing or even as a thing at all...

[SirPoniesAlot 7]

I noticed it right away, but as most of the others said I don't mind it unless they start using it for everything. CG and 2D animation do not usually blend wel. And for me the timber wolfs stuck out enough for me to notice it in an instant.

But all and all, I don't care very much.

[sampsoninc916 27]

Looks like many of you actually tolerated the 2D style CGI Timberwolves in a Flash animated cartoon. I can completely understand what you guys are saying. I wonder if they should start using a more modern version of Flash, upgrade their servers, or even start using Toon Boom to animated the stuff. Do they use Maya, because South Park is animated in Maya? I wonder what creatures will come out of this show next? Were the Timberwolves too scary for kids or just the right amount of scary?

[Hansel 1,512]

I've never had any issue with 3D animation, and I actually rather like it when 2D and 3D are combined (Tron: Uprising is a fantastic example of incorporating the two styles together in quite a beautiful way). The only issue I really have, is when 3D animation is used as a shortcut in a 2D animated show/film. A classic example of this is the ballroom scene from Disney's Beauty and the Beast. It always looks so painfully obvious, even when they really try to hide it with cell shading to make it look more 2D, and it just looks cheap. It kind of stands out and ruins the feel of the show for me, and I feel that using 3D animation as a shortcut doesn't really do the 3D art form much justice either.

 

I have to admit, I did a double take at the Timberwolves. Although my first guess was "3D, what the Hell?", I did think for a second after that they might have been 2D, and the animators just put a lot of extra effort into the symbols used to animate the Timberwolves. They managed to incorporate it pretty well into the style of the show, and I guess the fact that they usually use symbols to animate the show made the job a bit easier. However, as always, it still stuck out.

The reason I'm a little upset is because... was it REALLY necessary to use 3D? I'm usually more forgiving when 3D shortcuts are used in TV shows because of the tight scheduling usually involved, but this didn't really feel like it was necessary. The animators have managed up until now to create some fantastic animation with a lot of fairly complicated scenes, especially for a TV show, why did they choose to go 3D this time round? I may not have minded so much if it was just for the resurrection scenes but... why for everything else? 

When I look at the great animation for the rest of the show, It makes this feel... well, lazy... to be honest.     

Edited January 2, 2013 by Hansel

[~Lawful Sturdy Wing~ 522]

As long as it stays with the Timberwolves? I like that. It makes them feel unique and kind of scarier as opposed to the other monsters. So yeah, go go CGI Timberwolves.

[Hansel 1,512]

Looks like many of you actually tolerated the 2D style CGI Timberwolves in a Flash animated cartoon. I can completely understand what you guys are saying. I wonder if they should start using a more modern version of Flash, upgrade their servers, or even start using Toon Boom to animated the stuff. Do they use Maya, because South Park is animated in Maya? I wonder what creatures will come out of this show next? Were the Timberwolves too scary for kids or just the right amount of scary?

 

Upgrading servers or using a more modern version of Flash (Even if they don't already have it) wouldn't really improve anything.

For one, I still use the very ancient Macromedia Flash 8 at home, and when I work at my uni, I use the shiny new Adobe Flash CS5.5.2>12/373, I notice nothing different aside from the fact that you can now do rigging animation (which MLP doesn't use anyway and doesn't look half as pretty as symbol animation). There's also a new version of action scrip which is pretty much the same as the old one only more complicated to use, but that's for interactive stuff anyway. To be honest, the most dramatic difference between the two versions is the fact that the timeline/dope sheet has moved from the bottom of the screen to the top. 

Secondly, it's skill that makes good animation, not the latest version of Flash or upgraded servers.

 

As for using different software like Toonboom or TV Paint or whatever else, it would most likely change the visual style of the show quite dramatically. Although, I suppose because it's symbol animation, all their models are made in Adobe Illustrator anyway, so it might not.

Actually... I'm not even sure if you can use symbols in Toonboom to be honest... Huh... Lemmee go check. *opens up Toonboom* 

 

And no, I'm pretty sure they don't use Maya... apart from the Timberwolves. 

Edited January 2, 2013 by Hansel

[Agent505 661]

I wondered what it was that made the Timber Wolves look badass in that episode. Never even realised that they where CGI. 

Then again I dont normally until i've seen things a few times. 

 

Honestly they looked great, but knowing they are CGI I dont think it should be used too much in the show. 

2D flash is the best looking thing i've seen for the show, even out of all the fanart and everything. 

[Emerald Flame 381]

I loved it. I liked the timberwolves from the start, and this episode made them look so much more frightening and awesome. So long as it's done well, I wouldn't mind more use of 3D.

 

I also find it somewhat interesting (and humorous) that Computer Generated Images are being criticized for being in a cartoon that is animated entirely in Flash!

 

This. Too many people seem to think that CGI is automatically 3D. The whole show has always been CGI, the days of hand drawn animation are long gone.

[sampsoninc916 27]

I loved it. I liked the timberwolves from the start, and this episode made them look so much more frightening and awesome. So long as it's done well, I wouldn't mind more use of 3D.

 

 

This. Too many people seem to think that CGI is automatically 3D. The whole show has always been CGI, the days of hand drawn animation are long gone.

Yeah, but a YouTube user named mushume3 that I sent a message too, whose real name is Tom Bancroft and has a reel of various 2D computer colored Disney movies that he worked on, including The Lion King, Pocahontas, Hercules, and Mulan, says that digital hand drawn animation is quite common, and Toon Boom is the industry standard. He's currently busy with client work and considering his expertise with Disney animation, I would love for him to do some 2D digital animation Disney style for me because Disney and Pixar have some of the best animators in the world. When I say digital hand drawn animation, I mean it's drawn on a graphics tablet or Wacom Cintiq pen display in a program like Photoshop, and then playing all the drawings back on a computer screen at the proper frame rate, as well as painting the backgrounds in Photoshop, and compositing the drawings in digitally, with multiplane stuff in Toon Boom, if you are going for a stereoscopic 3D movie. Just want to give you a heads up on the whole computer animation thing.

Edited January 2, 2013 by sampsoninc916

[kirbyboi 588]

I personally don't mind at all, but I thought it was cool! Well, the Timberwolves kinda didn't fit in well, but I didn't really mind. It made them stand out, at least. However, I remember in one episode with Timberwolves they weren't 3D. Which one do I prefer? I honestly don't care. Whatever the animation is, it's always fun to watch. 

 

I think it would be super cool if they were to include this type of animation with one of the finales (Example: Maybe when...Discord shoots out an attack, they could use 3D effects to make the attack look cooler).