Bad News re: BronyDoc

[decoherence 183]

I just received the following depressing news from Mike Brockhoff

Here is the latest

Production Shut-Down

You may have heard that we are shutting down production. For clarification, this refers to canceling plans to invest more time and money into releasing a disc with additional material and segments that have already been shot but didn't make it into the film. We have many great stories that just didn't fit into the flow of what we were creating with the film but thought the Brony community would really enjoy seeing. Because the piracy within the Brony community is rampant and pervasive we've come to the conclusion that investing any more time and energy would be not be worthwhile.

Unlike those of you who actually contributed to the creation of the film, there are those who feel the tremendous support we received was simply a financial bonanza and don't understand that we used the money to create the best possible film. They clearly don't understand, appreciate or respect the work and feel that since in their view, you the supporters paid for it, they are entitled to get it for free.

Lesson learned, we are moving on and focusing on distribution to the mainstream public.

Discs

We are on deadline to deliver the masters to the disc replicator early next week. The process of creating the Blu-Ray was more complicated than excepted. The replicator takes about three weeks, then we ship. Most will be happy to hear that we decided to go with a Blu-Ray / DVD combo pack. There is one 2-disc pack with the main film and one 2-disc pack with the extended interviews bonus disc. I've included the cover art for those who are interested. We will be ordering extra discs (both main film and bonus disc) and plan on having them available for sale on Amazon.

Netflix & iTunes & Amazon

We have started the process of placing th e film on Amazon and iTunes. We expect the film to be available for purchase and rental in the next 60 days. Netflix is a much more complicated process. The first step is to even get into their database, then there needs to be a customer demand of people who have have requested the film for when it becomes available. We will make announcements as that process progresses.

Film festivals and public distribution

We have entered the film into some festivals and started the process of talking with distributors. We will make announcements as that process progresses.

Again, thank you to those who supported the film.

Mike & The Production Team

I suppose it was inevitable that stuff would wind up 'in the wild' but I really hoped that, because we're the bucking Bronies, we would be able to buck the trend or at least hold it off until it got some mainstream distribution. I guess not. I haven't searched YouTube for it but I really hope that whomever posted this isn't calling themselves a brony because they've essentially betrayed the community they claim to belong to.

 

From what I understand, this means BronyDoc is less likely to be accepted in to film festivals (though they're still goin to try); members of the project that deferred payment (a common practice) may not get compensated and no further time/money will be spent on unreleased segments that didn't make it in to the doc.

 

Like I said, I'm jaded enough to have thought this was inevitable but it's still really depressing. While I contributed to the kickstarter and got a free copy, I will be buying another and encourage my fellow Bronies to help mitigate the damage done by piracy by purchasing legit copies. We've pulled together to help others, financially. Now it's time for us to help ourselves, which is ultimately what legitimately supporting this project will be doing.

 

http://www.bronydoc.com/Brony/MAIN.html

Edited February 7, 2013 by decoherence

[Sard Shift 21]

I'm sad that this happened. I really loved the BronyDoc, and I didn't think that this would be such a great deal. Yes, I did download it myself only to see if it is any good, but afterwards I, for one, actually bought a copy of it (well, a download). I would also buy a hard disc copy of I could, but it seems I have to wait for that. The Blue-ray/DVD-combo! What a good move! I only don't fully understand why 'bronies' would do this. I don't think they did it intentionally, but couldn't they at least buy a copy to support the creators of the documentary? Maybe just like I did (and I'm sure that is at least one other person that did the same as I did)? I just can't wrap my head around it.

 

"I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed". I guess that doesn't count here, I'm just mad.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Sard Shift

[Descant 1,897]

I bought a copy, in a rather round-about way. I paid my friend for a copy, who had paid for like ten downloads of it. I'd say that counts, don't you think?

 

It's really disappointing that they're not investing any more in this - I would have bought a DVD of it, no argument. But one could argue that it's kind of a brony tradition, piracy privateering. Most people only ever watch the show on Youtube or on livestreams, and I'd be surprised if Hasbro gets paid for views there, even if they don't discourage it.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Descant

[Replicant 113]

This is one of the only things I've ever legally downloaded in my life, and it strikes me as (selfishly) ironic that it would be the one thing to be negatively affected by too much piracy. 

 

Bummer. u_u

[Freewave 1,145]

That's a bit of accusation you have in here and you may be entitled to some ruffled wing feathers but it's also important that people might want to see if a documntary is worth owning before they buy. There really isn't anything wrong with that philosiphy especially when reports are that it's a rather terrible documentary.

 

"It’s about

  - A huge sense of self-importance

  - An amazing amount of hypocrisy

  - Enough arrogance to last us a lifetime

  - More entitlement than has ever been seen

  - And an absurd amount of misogyny"

 

http://steveholtvstheuniverse.tumblr.com/post/41265617491/okay-real-talk-on-the-brony-documentary

 

And why would someone pirate it? (errr download and view for free?)

 

Well here's a few other reasons?

 

"So I guess I shouldn't buy it then?

 

Hell no. If you must watch it, torrent it or stream it.

 

Those bronies threw enough money at De Lancie to make 3 documentaries. They don't need your money.

 

To put it another way; Mic the Microphone, one of the guys who helped work closely with the documentary and helped make music for it, has disowned it for the sole reason of it being a massive circlejerk. Which isn't even in the top 5 worst things about it."

 

So yes that's why people would noyt want to contribute ADDITIONAL money to something that wasn't any good and would LIKE to make an informed decision on that for themselves. The movie makers should be aware of this and not cry over the money which they've already received.

 

I haven't seen the movie but i agree with the statements that no one should have to pay something that's terrible when you can  check it out yourself, make your own opinion, and then decide to buy it if you'd like to see it again. It's 2013 people should be aware that this is how the internet and piracy works.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Freewave

[decoherence 183]

What ruffles my feathers, personally, is unauthorized distribution. I have no problem with the idea of 'try before you buy', in principal in some cases (more on this later tonight) -- despite my disappointment I believe that most bronies who watched and enjoyed the doc would buy it after the fact if they were able.

 

Thing is, how does one 'try before you buy' without some kind of unauthorized distribution? There are ways (which Mike mentioned in a prior email, encouraging us to show it to our friends) but once it's been uploaded to a massive distribution channel, the cat is out of the bag.

 

Anyway, i've gotta get back to work. I might have more to say later once I've gone over the replies better.

 

cheers,

 

EDIT: after some thought, added some qualifications to my stance on 'try before you buy.'

 

PS if everyone could now please stop replying to this thread until i get back to my hotel room tonight and can read over things and respond properly.... hehe j/k of course. Something tells me it might be a late night

Edited February 7, 2013 by decoherence

[Metatora 37]

I bought a digital copy, I haven't gotten around to watching it yet, but hey, I did my part. 

 

But yes, the people who ponied up (pun not intended) the money to back the project gave the crew way more then they needed. So what the hell did they waste it on? They had $300,000 dollars and a small crew. They should have created a thing called...a budget. Just because you have all that money, it didn't mean they had to spend ALL of it on themselves. They could have used some of the money to promote the project or to help pay for the distribution costs. Y'know, like a normal production team would have done. 

 

I am proud of the fandom for supporting the documentary, don't get me wrong. But maybe next time we need to think it out a bit more before jumping the gun on a project this big, perhaps? And maybe putting someone in charge that actually knows how to handle a budget, that never hurts. 

[Haven Celestii 9,385]

Im not quite sure how you can actually sit there and call someone who pirated it not a brony just because they did so.
I guess Im not one then, huh? Well, damn. I just wasted almost a whole year of my life then. Buck.

 

But seriously, just cause one did so doesn't mean their not a brony. As Freewave said, some do like to try it before they buy it. It makes good sense to do so. I, myself, do plan on purchasing a copy when I get enough for one. However, I also liked it very much and didn't find much wrong with it like some others. I can see why others who didn't like it at all wouldn't pay for it. Brony or not, most people wouldn't do such a thing as paying for something they know is terrible just because the people worked hard on it. People aren't generally that nice.

 

I do feel bad that this happened in such a number for it to affect them though. But with how the internet is today, it was kinda expected that it might just happen.

[Sard Shift 21]

That's a bit of accusation you have in here and you may be entitled to some ruffled wing feathers but it's also important that people might want to see if a documntary is worth owning before they buy. There really isn't anything wrong with that philosiphy especially when reports are that it's a rather terrible documentary.

 

"It’s about

 

  - A huge sense of self-importance

  - An amazing amount of hypocrisy

  - Enough arrogance to last us a lifetime

  - More entitlement than has ever been seen

  - And an absurd amount of misogyny"

 

http://steveholtvstheuniverse.tumblr.com/post/41265617491/okay-real-talk-on-the-brony-documentary

 

And why would someone pirate it? (errr download and view for free?)

 

Well here's a few other reasons?

 

"So I guess I shouldn't buy it then?

 

Hell no. If you must watch it, torrent it or stream it.

 

Those bronies threw enough money at De Lancie to make 3 documentaries. They don't need your money.

 

To put it another way; Mic the Microphone, one of the guys who helped work closely with the documentary and helped make music for it, has disowned it for the sole reason of it being a massive circlejerk. Which isn't even in the top 5 worst things about it."

 

So yes that's why people would noyt want to contribute ADDITIONAL money to something that wasn't any good and would LIKE to make an informed decision on that for themselves. The movie makers should be aware of this and not cry over the money which they've already received.

 

I haven't seen the movie but i agree with the statements that no one should have to pay something that's terrible when you can  check it out yourself, make your own opinion, and then decide to buy it if you'd like to see it again. It's 2013 people should be aware that this is how the internet and piracy works.

 

I understand, and see the point you're making, but I only partitially agree on it. I do agree on users overracting to the documentary, as it was supposed to 'show people how it is like to be an everyday brony'. Yet, they went to show mostly succesfull bronies, and not the original, everyday brony like you and me. I really did miss the whole 'show the normal bronies' aspect in the documentary.

 

I disagree with us 'throwing extra money' at the fellows who helped creating the documentary. I think they actually worked hard for it and deserve to have a little something to keep for theirself. I wouldn't doubt if 'we' (we being some artistic bronies) do the same sometimes, purely because it encourages us. I also don't know how much it actually costs to make a documentary like this, but I'm sure that is a considerable amount of 'ca-ching!' as well.

 

Im not quite sure how you can actually sit there and call someone who pirated it not a brony just because they did so.

I guess Im not one then, huh? Well, damn. I just wasted almost a whole year of my life then. Buck.

 

But seriously, just cause one did so doesn't mean their not a brony. As Freewave said, some do like to try it before they buy it. It makes good sense to do so. I, myself, do plan on purchasing a copy when I get enough for one. However, I also liked it very much and didn't find much wrong with it like some others. I can see why others who didn't like it at all wouldn't pay for it. Brony or not, most people wouldn't do such a thing as paying for something they know is terrible just because the people worked hard on it. People aren't generally that nice.

 

I do feel bad that this happened in such a number for it to affect them though. But with how the internet is today, it was kinda expected that it might just happen.

 

I agree with that as well. Calling someone a 'non-brony' purely because he has pirated a copy because he / she didn't want to pay for it, is a bit harsh. There are also bronies that can't buy a copy, because they (example coming up) don't have permission from their parents. I don't think anyone who pirates is a 'lesser-brony' or 'non-brony', I would just like everyone who did like the documentary and would like to support it's makers to actually buy a copy. I downloaded it myself as well, no big deal. But I supported the creators of the documentary by actually purchasing it.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Sard Shift

[Fridge 382]

I haven't actually seen the bronydoc yet. But I did see that there was a video uploaded of Bronydoc (I was looking for the animated trailer they did) and I purposely didn't watch it. I haven't paid for the film but I do plan to (money is a little tight though).

 

Such a shame that others don't show a similar level of respect.

[Freewave 1,145]

It's a moot point, if you don't take steps to combat piracy and just give out an unreleased movie or cd w/o proper precautions it will leak. We are a community that freely uses MLP footage in pmv's, samples the show in our music, and uploads and torrents whole episodes. An investor or someone who made the movie WAS the same person who leaked it. They don't leak themslves.

 

By all means rally to buy a copy if you plan to want to own it or watch it again and again but this project WAS paid for and was already funded BY bronies. There's no reason to be mad at people if they want to make an informed decision if they want to own it (because it IS available for free viewing when it leaks). Unless the investors were promised a return on profits i'm not sure why they would care about future profits for an outside company that already got all the free financing. That's why throwing all your moneys at the screen isn't neccesarily a great thing and these start-ups aren't always a great idea when it isn't a non-profit and badly planned / executed.  

 

Again I'm looking to make my own decision on this movie as there may have been a pre-emptive and unfair backlash, but like many people, I'm not going to buy a $15 dvd / blue ray combo pack just  to find out that i hate it. .

Edited February 7, 2013 by Freewave

[~Chaotic Parsley~ 240]

I'm not going to buy a $15 dvd / blue ray combo pack just  to find out that i hate it. .

 

I understand where you are coming from here, however with that logic, is there any point buying anything? 

 

And honestly? Am I the only one that bought it whether or not it was going to be horrible...which it wasn't. Everything that did in the documentary flowed perfectly.

[Emerald Flame 381]

I was going to buy it, but I wanted to make sure it was worth the money first. However, the people behind the documentary had their lawyers send messages to the people who put in on YouTube threatening to sue them for damages. I decided that I didn't want to support them if they're going to take such drastic action against them.

[None42069 520]

I was going to buy it, but I wanted to make sure it was worth the money first. However, the people behind the documentary had their lawyers send messages to the people who put in on YouTube threatening to sue them for damages. I decided that I didn't want to support them if they're going to take such drastic action against them.

 

They spent a lot of money on the documentary and people pirate it for free and therefore causing them to LOSE money. WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY WERE GONNA DO?!

[Emerald Flame 381]

They spent a lot of money on the documentary and people pirate it for free and therefore causing them to LOSE money. WHAT DO YOU THINK THEY WERE GONNA DO?!

 

I understand being upset about it, but threatening to sue people over it is going to far. When court costs and the lawyer's pay is taken out, they're still not going to make their money back.

[Starswirl the Trixie 975]

I originally posted this in the Mailmare thread before I saw this one.  Repost.

_____

 

 

Piracy would have been far less rampant if the movie was history making for the community.  But the reviews are in, and the Brony Documentary is just de Lancie preaching to the herd.  It wasn't special, so no one found pirating it any different than pirating a normal Hollywood movie.  And since the majority of the funding came from the community itself, it's not like Bronies ruined a work that was only the work of de Lancie.

 

Besides, what did de Lancie expect?  The documentary is only valuable if it is widely distributed, and it was written about a community on the internet.  Piracy was going to be rampant.  The challenge today is for producers to use piracy and copyright infringement to their advantage.  Besides, the Brony community today exists because of copyright infringement   No one would spend $9 to watch a few episodes off iTunes at their friends' request.  We exist because people put the episodes on Youtube.

 

The producers didn't understand the internet, so it's no surprise that they have no idea how to control internet activity.

Edited February 7, 2013 by Starswirl the Goateed

[WindsweptFrog 52]

Awwww this sucks, I quite literally have not got enough money to buy a legit copy I though about pirating but then felt that might hurt the project so didn't looks like i'm never gunna see it

Edited February 7, 2013 by WindsweptFrog

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,695]

I tried this before I bought it and I don't apologize for it. I'm almost completely broke and wanted to see if it was worth the money for the DVD, extras and whatever else might be on there. In my opinion, it wasn't. Quality wasn't a problem, it looked great and there was some good music in it (I know a musician who composed 4 of the tracks in there). But it was too long, the material was poorly organized and it was missing something I can't put my finger on. A lot of something.

 

I'm sorry they're not finishing off the project properly and I feel bad that it came to this, but I'd feel a lot worse if the product had lived up to my expectations.

Edited February 7, 2013 by TailsIsNotAlone

[NavelColt 22,879]

Still haven't seen it, still haven't bought it. Not surprised though. With a fanbase this large you can't simply expect everyone to do the right thing.

[Starswirl the Trixie 975]

I just received the following depressing news from Mike Brockhoff

 

I suppose it was inevitable that stuff would wind up 'in the wild' but I really hoped that, because we're the bucking Bronies, we would be able to buck the trend or at least hold it off until it got some mainstream distribution. I guess not. I haven't searched YouTube for it but I really hope that whomever posted this isn't calling themselves a brony because they've essentially betrayed the community they claim to belong to

 

 

That's a bit harsh, you must admit.  They "betrayed the community"?  The community is founded on piracy.  Hasbro found a way to use copyright infringement to advance the show; that is a main reason for its prosperity.

 

Every review of the Documentary's content I've read so far has been negative (see FreeWave's post above for more information).  Of course, I can't independently judge it.  I am not willing to spend money on a documentary which appears to be a failure, and with most pirating options down, I'll just take other people's word for it.  If Brockhoff, Lancie, and the rest of the team were shocked by piracy or angry with it, that's their own fault.  And to think that they are threatening pirates with lawsuits?  These people don't understand the internet.

 

I've seen some comments online which, in effect, encourage piracy in order to dismantle the project so that few non-Bronies see the movie.  While I do not agree with the idea, the fact that people are arguing that shows how bad the film is, and how much the community has turned against it.

[Shanks 10,816]

I normally support or am at least neutral toward pirating but in this case I have made an exception because this wasn't some movie made by a large studio with billions of dollars to blow it was for the most part ordinary people and one notable celebrity (John De Lancie) trying to make a quality documentary about a very unexpected and often misunderstood fandom.

[EmmerichWolfe 47]

This fandom got its start by pirating. 

 

John and Michael didn't have to do this at all. In fact, they both could have ignored us and went on with their lives. I'm of the opinion that they--or at least John--did this out of the kindness of their hearts. With that said, they released this documentary digitally and DRM-free to a community that got to this point by giving the finger to a corporation. Seems like a huge lapse in judgment. 

 

John's tweet and the update from the crew does come off as more than a bit naive and accusative respectively. This is a large fandom, and for the most part, John's right. The people do tend to be pretty cool, open-minded individuals. But let's not pretend we don't have our share of bad apples. The show's message--which is what I think attracted them to this--only reached this strange audience because of piracy. 

 

They should have sharpened their projections, tiered the donations, released the hard copies on a pre-order basis, and released the DVDs at the same time instead of giving the backer's an early download. Moreover, a small portion of the funds should have gone to the bonus disc. 

 

I don't blame them for wanting compensation for something they did as a favor to us, but I do think they should have thought this through a bit better. 

[RockinRarity 1,605]

This fandom got its start by pirating.

 

John and Michael didn't have to do this at all. In fact, they both could have ignored us and went on with their lives. I'm of the opinion that they--or at least John--did this out of the kindness of their hearts. With that said, they released this documentary digitally and DRM-free to a community that got to this point by giving the finger to a corporation. Seems like a huge lapse in judgment.

 

John's tweet and the update from the crew does come off as more than a bit naive and accusative respectively. This is a large fandom, and for the most part, John's right. The people do tend to be pretty cool, open-minded individuals. But let's not pretend we don't have our share of bad apples. The show's message--which is what I think attracted them to this--only reached this strange audience because of piracy.

 

They should have sharpened their projections, tiered the donations, released the hard copies on a pre-order basis, and released the DVDs at the same time instead of giving the backer's an early download. Moreover, a small portion of the funds should have gone to the bonus disc.

 

I don't blame them for wanting compensation for something they did as a favor to us, but I do think they should have thought this through a bit better.

The one post in this thread that I agree with.

 

I did my part and paid the $13 for the downloaded version of the documentary. And I did enjoy it for my own sake. But I really don't think that this documentary would have reached to people far beyond nerd culture. Most "normal" people don't give 2 shits about MLP, and they will think like the people at the beginning of the movie and then move on with life going to school, working, hanging out with friends, being with family, and watching non-cartoony TV.

 

It would be the same if this documentary were about anime. Except that at least anime has been popular long enough and has significantly more history that more people would actually be interested.

 

I think that people forget just how new this fandom is. A documentary like this wouldn't be very appealing to the masses until at least 2020, I imagine.

 

I don't think that the documentary was bad. In fact I personally really enjoyed it, and it made me wish that I could go back to Bronycon this year. But I only really liked it because I know the fandom. I can't imagine either of my parents or my brothers staying engaged long enough to enjoy it themselves, including the brothers who generally enjoy weird things like anime.

[Freewave 1,145]

Again I applaud John Delancie for trying to make a documentary about us and wanting to find a way to tell our story and be proactive in saying that we aren't bunch of weirdos and a good community.

 

His interview with EQD i founds really informative, loving, and insighful (so much that i sampled it).

It had me really excited and optomistic for this project but again this was putting faith in an outsider to tell our story well.

 

He just seemed to have some bad decisions since then and while i support his involvement with MLP he 's still just a guest. I'm sorry John is offended and threatened legal action on getting out for free a project which we paid for but people will still pay for it if it's good. He really needs to not bite the hand that feeds in this case as it sours what his intent was with this movie.  

 

Again we don't need to PAY others to tell our story. We may just want to do it oursleves the next time as we have the talent and the means. Case in point:

Edited February 8, 2013 by Freewave

[FoxyCryptid 4,330]

I understand being upset about it, but threatening to sue people over it is going to far. When court costs and the lawyer's pay is taken out, they're still not going to make their money back.

 

That's the thing. they were being nice by giving  people a chance to remove it. They could have just sued(and a lot of companies would have), or filed a DMCA notice, and threatening a couple grand when they could legally sue for $250k+ is being nice about it. 

Edited February 17, 2013 by Shoboni