Do You Support Twilicorn?

[Guest]

I think that I'm going to wait for S4 until I come to a solid opinion about Twilicorn. As far as the season finale goes, I remain neutral. I didn't like it and I didn't hate it.

[Rinkitty 589]

Yes.

 

...

 

Damn, what else can I put here?

 

I feel she earned the wings by proving that she has learned the true power of friendship, or something. Plus, she looks so pretty 

[BalanceBrony 259]

I support the idea of Twilicorn. It opens so many new possibilities in the story of the show, as Twilight gets used to her wings, her status, and begins learning how to master the magic of friendship. And the wings. I really like the wings. Is anypony else excited to see her take flying lessons from RD?

[Hypnodash 18]

This will be the only time i will say something about this topic.

I am so sick of it. I am sick about the constant doom saying of the show, i am sick about the blind praising and i am sick of all the fruitless discussions about this topic.

 

I've stopped caring about these disscusions in May and i can safetly say it made me alot happier.

 

So yeah i am pretty much indifferent on this topic.

 

BTW this is not meant to insult any of you. You can still talk about this Topic, but don't ask me about it.

[Captain Brony (MG11) 218]

Could somebody please explain to me how wings and a title (if this is really all that's changing) qualifies as character developement? Is defeating a few baddies and jury-rigging a solutuion (namely one you said wasn't possible) to a mess you created really worthy of being awarded such an important title?

The Wings and Princess title themselves are not character developement as you had asked since Twilight had already experienced character development prior to the transformation. The wings and title are indeed story catalysts, not character developement, as they were bestowed upon her to kickstart her next level of character progress and challenges in the next season as well as the Equestria Girls movie.

 

Whether Twilight was worthy or not was determined by Celestia's decisions as she had molded much of her fate and future since day one. Every task she had asked her to do had an outcome that Celestia would certainly attempt to predict as she always seems to know how well Twilight will perform and is even impressed by her ability to surpass expectations. Not to mention Celestia oversees Twilight's progress in her studies every week by reading her letters. (I assume this is how she gauges Twilight's readiness for the next level and that the events you have mentioned have either been serendipudous for Celestia to use on Twilight or even pre-planned from the get-go)

 

Celestia's been a princess a long time and I see no reason to question her judgement of who's worthy. As it goes now Celestia may expect Twilight to become a future head princess and may even believe she can become a better princess than even herself.

 

But honestly there's a lot of fact mixed with speculation here so how i've interpreted the evidence of her worthiness may be lacking.

[ravensilvertail 34]

I love the idea of Twilight being an alicorn. I have so many questions about her in the series.

What will she do? Will she still live in ponyville? Will she ever find love. How will her new rank affect her relationship with her friends?

[danjuno 8]

The Wings and Princess title themselves are not character developement as you had asked since Twilight had already experienced character development prior to the transformation. The wings and title are indeed story catalysts, not character developement, as they were bestowed upon her to kickstart her next level of character progress and challenges in the next season as well as the Equestria Girls movie.

 

Whether Twilight was worthy or not was determined by Celestia's decisions as she had molded much of her fate and future since day one. Every task she had asked her to do had an outcome that Celestia would certainly attempt to predict as she always seems to know how well Twilight will perform and is even impressed by her ability to surpass expectations. Not to mention Celestia oversees Twilight's progress in her studies every week by reading her letters. (I assume this is how she gauges Twilight's readiness for the next level and that the events you have mentioned have either been serendipudous for Celestia to use on Twilight or even pre-planned from the get-go)

 

Celestia's been a princess a long time and I see no reason to question her judgement of who's worthy. As it goes now Celestia may expect Twilight to become a future head princess and may even believe she can become a better princess than even herself.

 

But honestly there's a lot of fact mixed with speculation here so how i've interpreted the evidence of her worthiness may be lacking.

I'm not so sure about Celestia's judgement. She's made some rather poor decisions in the past, such as letting Discord get close to the main six in Keep Calm and Flutter On (he didn't need the elements themselves to stop them, he could simply corrupt one of the main six, rendering the elements useless), or leaving Twilight's friendship letters as her only life-line in Return of Harmony, when Discord could've easily incapacitated or driven her away before she could find them.  For some more examples of poor judgment on Celestia's part, I'd like to link this article someone posted on DeviantArt: http://gorshmidtii.deviantart.com/art/Criticism-is-Magic-Princess-Celestia-358118339

[SyndicateMuffin 7]

I was really not expecting for Twilight to turn into a princess and I was very suprised when I saw it, and the first thought that comes to my head was,"Does this mean Twilight can't wright letters and be a main character, or be part of the story?". I kinda have a feeling in my gut that is saying no.

[TwiliciousAlkoi 369]

Yes I truly support Twilicorn I mean I don't know why everypony hates her she wont betray or leave her friends,it means she will face more adventures and challenges as a princess with her friends! 

[Captain Brony (MG11) 218]

I'm not so sure about Celestia's judgement. She's made some rather poor decisions in the past, such as letting Discord get close to the main six in Keep Calm and Flutter On (he didn't need the elements themselves to stop them, he could simply corrupt one of the main six, rendering the elements useless), or leaving Twilight's friendship letters as her only life-line in Return of Harmony, when Discord could've easily incapacitated or driven her away before she could find them. For some more examples of poor judgment on Celestia's part, I'd like to link this article someone posted on DeviantArt: http://gorshmidtii.deviantart.com/art/Criticism-is-Magic-Princess-Celestia-358118339

The problems I have with this article:

1) Rarely does the author take into account Celestia's ability to predict the outcomes of the events.

2) The author has little faith in Twilight, as each task is directly tied to Celestias overall plan to train Twilight

3) The author fails to realize that making Celestia intervene more prominently would basically end the episodes/events mentioned prematurely (basically making Celestia's "bad decisions" the writer's fault on some occasions)

 

I'd agree with your statement if only for one thing: Discord had no immediate interest in disabling the elements really. He knew what Celestia's plan was and wanted to "play her game" just to show her it was a futile effort. Celestia knows he wouldn't act immediately considering she knows him the longest. He's one of those types that play with their victims before doing away with them.

(This episode was also rushed, so it's no surprise it wasn't thought through well.)

Edited October 12, 2013 by Captain Brony (MG11)

[Misterian 118]

Well, oddly enough, the thing about Twilicorn that peaked my interest is how the dev team has chosen to portray Twilight's status as Princess and Alicorn in such a paltry matter, actually not being immortal (though Celestia and Luna aren't officially confirmed to be immortal, so something else might have allowed them to live so long), not being separated from her friends, etc.<br /><br />Which, to be fair, might already make sense, as the Elements of Harmony can only be used as long as Twilight and her friends are together with them and as long as remain friends, So obviously if Twilight had to do anything that would alter her relationship with her friends, it would have undesirable consequences, but if there is another in-universe reason for Twilicorn being downplayed in Season 4, well, let's just say I'd find it interesting to find out.

[Not_A_Replicant 109]

I love Alicorn Twilight. We all new that this would eventually happen. How is Celestia going to gain in heir unless she trains an Alicorn as her protege? Unicorns can't live 1000 years so why would Celestia waste her time? Besides I think she looks a whole lot cooler with wings anyway. But the same time I feel bad for Twilight. What happens when her friends get older and die? She will be so heartbroken, I think it will kill her.

[danjuno 8]

The problems I have with this article:

1) Rarely does the author take into account Celestia's ability to predict the outcomes of the events.

2) The author has little faith in Twilight, as each task is directly tied to Celestias overall plan to train Twilight

3) The author fails to realize that making Celestia intervene more prominently would basically end the episodes/events mentioned prematurely (basically making Celestia's "bad decisions" the writer's fault on some occasions)

 

I'd agree with your statement if only for one thing: Discord had no immediate interest in disabling the elements really. He knew what Celestia's plan was and wanted to "play her game" just to show her it was a futile effort. Celestia knows he wouldn't act immediately considering she knows him the longest. He's one of those types that play with their victims before doing away with them.

(This episode was also rushed, so it's no surprise it wasn't thought through well.)

1. Since when does Celestia have the ability to predict the future? And even if she can predict the future, why does she need to test Twilight if she knows what's going to happen anyway, especially as such tests would involve the suffering of her subjects. To bring

suffering on to her subjects for the benefit of one person (even if it is not herself) is either tyrannical, short-sighted, or both.

 

2. Because Twilight hadn't really developed the skill with Magic we saw in Season 3. She didn't defeat Discord with any magic besides that of the elements and a memory restoration spell, where as in the Crystal Empire, she actual overrides Sombra's magic. Assuming the suspension of disbelief is still intact (which it ought to be in a good show like FiM), the viewer wouldn't see that Twilight was capable of it as they had not seen her use magic to such an extent before, (except for Boast Busters, but slamming Discord into the ground with her levitation abilities until he cried uncle would not fly in a kids show, would it now?). And as I said before, Celestia's training of TS came at the expense of huge suffering for her subjects.

 

3. The writers could of come up with a number reasons why Celestia wasn't able to help Twilight that didn't paint her is such a negative light as wanting to train her student at the expense of her subjects. Also, I don't see why S2 was rushed, other than perhaps Faust's departure, but I don't see how that would produce more of a schedule cramp than having to work with half the air time like in S3.

[Misterian 118]

that_cool_nerd_js, on 13 Oct 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

I love Alicorn Twilight. We all new that this would eventually happen. How is Celestia going to gain in heir unless she trains an Alicorn as her protege? Unicorns can't live 1000 years so why would Celestia waste her time? Besides I think she looks a whole lot cooler with wings anyway. But the same time I feel bad for Twilight. What happens when her friends get older and die? She will be so heartbroken, I think it will kill her.

*sigh* I've brought this up before and I will bring this up again, Meghan McCarthy herself stated that Twilight ISN'T going to outlive her friends.

 

Also no canon sources have given anything to indicate Celestia training an heir or even needing one, if Twilight will be given any royal duties at all, the most logical thing it would be is that she'd likely be helping to govern and protect Equestria alongside her friends and the other Alicorn Princesses.

[GreyScholar 1,584]

I'd like to link this article someone posted on DeviantArt: http://gorshmidtii.deviantart.com/art/Criticism-is-Magic-Princess-Celestia-358118339

This is my partial counter to his article:

"1000 years of rulership where the citizens of a nation are content and happy is nothing to scoff saying it is simple and mundane and is easy. All need to do is look through history to see just how hard it is to be a ruler and we win during this time the nation has been in seemingly uninterrupted peace and prosperity what does say something.

 

And if it wasn't for the fact this is the children's television show where the dangers and realities of real life are not shown, well it is disappointingly understandable they wouldn't go over Equestrian history. Just because it is not mention does not mean they have not been conflict or politics behind the scenes.

 

Heck politics in and of itself is it immensely complicated issue, and any ruler that has successfully overcome such issues and more importantly withstood such for such a long time clearly is a competent ruler in my book. Only those that have no understanding what it actually takes to be a ruler would say it's no big thing, simply mundane.

--------------------------

Nightmare Moon

 

Another thing I feel should be considered is it because the nature of the show one should consider situation in an optimistic not cynical light. If the show says Princess Celestia had no choice but use the Elements of Harmony on her sister that mean she used every other option that does not involve harming her sister or killing her... if after Princess Luna's transformation into Nightmare Moon that was even possible.

 

Though this is my own personal insight on the situation, I would say the issue is more complex particularly if you have any idea how family dynamics work. When you have someone that is suffering, working with strong negativity in their life (and arguably outside influence of darkness) trying to help them is not simple as talking to them. The way I look at it, based on how what I've seen on Princess Celestias personality and behavior, she would have noticed something was wrong but perhaps because of her younger age was uncertain what to do about it.

 

Anyone who's had a sibling knows that it's not always easy to talk to them. The way I look, particularly when things really started getting bad, Princess Luna was probably angry and unwilling to accept help. When one feels you're alone, one can lash out at anyone trying to help saying they just don't understand only pity them.

 

Also, much like Rainbow Dash in the Mysterious Mare-do-Well and the idea of "A day in the limelight", there is the possibility Princess Celestia in her youth could have allowed herself to be taken in by the praise of her subjects. That and she was probably very likely busy, as most ponies would if they have a concern go to her during the daytime. Is possible during this times Princess Celestia considered talking to her sister and spending additional time with her that she could have been called away on business to handle an issue with one of her subjects or even those from other countries.

 

To me it is not unreasonable that Princess Celestia could have been unable to realize until it was too late what was going on with her sister, or in her youth unreasonable in her behavoir towards her little sister.

 

Age can make a big difference when it comes to decisions and choices made, and I would say Princess Celestia did a lot of maturing in that one thousand years without her sister. Having to take on the burden of ruling Eequestria by herself, hiding her pain and guilt from her subjects.

 

She's not infallible, she is not perfect, and the chains of command can be a heavy burden. It would be unrealistic if she never made a mistake, if she never made a bad decision, but such does not make her incompetent or unworthy to rule particularly with a good track record of 1000 years of rule.

 

I feel some fans put far too unreasonable of demands on her character, particularly when it has not been explored or considered in the show nearly at all. She's not a main character, and she is there to be a mentor and mother figure to the protagonist. I personally hope the writers are given the opportunity to further explore the royal sisters backstory... which is why I personally look forward to the episode where it seems Twilight Sparkle gains a glimpse of the past and see for herself what actually happened so many years ago.

 

I will get to Discord, the Canterlot Wedding, and the Crystal Empire in another post but for now I think this post long enough."

Edited October 15, 2013 by EquestrianScholar

[Captain Brony (MG11) 218]

1. Since when does Celestia have the ability to predict the future? And even if she can predict the future, why does she need to test Twilight if she knows what's going to happen anyway, especially as such tests would involve the suffering of her subjects. To bring

suffering on to her subjects for the benefit of one person (even if it is not herself) is either tyrannical, short-sighted, or both.

 

2. Because Twilight hadn't really developed the skill with Magic we saw in Season 3. She didn't defeat Discord with any magic besides that of the elements and a memory restoration spell, where as in the Crystal Empire, she actual overrides Sombra's magic. Assuming the suspension of disbelief is still intact (which it ought to be in a good show like FiM), the viewer wouldn't see that Twilight was capable of it as they had not seen her use magic to such an extent before, (except for Boast Busters, but slamming Discord into the ground with her levitation abilities until he cried uncle would not fly in a kids show, would it now?). And as I said before, Celestia's training of TS came at the expense of huge suffering for her subjects.

 

3. The writers could of come up with a number reasons why Celestia wasn't able to help Twilight that didn't paint her is such a negative light as wanting to train her student at the expense of her subjects. Also, I don't see why S2 was rushed, other than perhaps Faust's departure, but I don't see how that would produce more of a schedule cramp than having to work with half the air time like in S3.

 

I'm not saying she has foresight, i'm saying she uses deductive reasoning to determine the outcomes. Though I understand why many cannot be dependent upon her making so much ride on a mere hypothesis made by her. Her choices carry great risk but no other character has as much knowledge of Twilight's capabilities than Celestia or even Twilight herself. I personally don't think Celestia would tell Twilight to do something unless she was perfectly sure she could do it.

 

Since the S3 finale we now know Celestia has been preparing Twilight to better assume the role as both a princess and a bearer of the element of magic. If Twilight was never faced with almost impossible situations with no other options but to try and face them, she wont be as prepared for them in the future.

 

Not saying it was rushed, it is just that writers tend to overlook certan viewpoints or plotholes. They most likely never realized it when putting it together.

 

It's hard to make solid arguements against these points but also hard to accept them because Celestia's actions in the story are often influenced by how a writer chooses to depict Celestia's reasoning and how they tend to write a dramatic story at the expense of common sense. To have Celestia task Twilight with responsibilities that determine the welfare of all subjects and her kingdom make Twilight's journey and conflict feel heavier storywise (Even though much of the tone in the show does not convey this well).

 

Does this mean Celestia is a manipulative tyrannical overlord? No

But has she made questionable decisions that might demand evaluation of her role as leader? Probably so

Should Luna be primary princess Instead? Let's leave that up to pointless speculation

[MadPointer 75]

I had been against Twilicorn for a long time but recently changed my mindset on the issue.
I no longer see Twilicorn as an imposter replacing Twilight Sparkle and I learnt to not think about executive meddling whenever I see Alicorn Twilight.

I now treat stories in the show as real stories. If there were a story where Rainbow Dash gets her wings permanently crippled, I wouldn't be able to appeal that it’s a bad change storywise which ruins many opportunities like I can’t blame journalists for coverage of events I don’t like. I can’t change events by altering articles in the news. Real stories aren't always meant to be upbeat, have good morals, etc. Quitting over bad news would be equivalent leaving the important person behind in a difficult situation because you can’t bare to see their suffering and/or the person is no longer of use to you and become a bother for you.
Since I care about ponies very much, I would rather stay for them no matter what happens to them.

I still prefer to believe Twilight Sparkle was meant to have a better fate than what she got and it's a waste of her talent but she's not aware of it. She might still be happy what she got and I'll try to be happy for her despite being somewhat sad. This is why I see MMC as a bittersweet episode but it's fine with me. We haven't had bittersweet episodes yet and it might be a welcome change.

Edited October 16, 2013 by MadPointer

[danjuno 8]

 Her choices carry great risk but no other character has as much knowledge of Twilight's capabilities than Celestia or even Twilight herself. I personally don't think Celestia would tell Twilight to do something unless she was perfectly sure she could do it.

 

I can certainly see why you'd think that way, but personally some of the close calls involving Celestia's assignments have struck me as pushing TS to over-achieve, almost like an over-bearing parent. Then again, we don't know a whole deal of their lives before the return of NMM, so we don't know how much they've been through together or what their relationship was like before TS moved away to Ponyville. The rest of your post, I have no quarrel with.

[RainbowDashiscool 309]

I love twicorn a little but i love twilight more but twilight might have became a twicorn becase her brother is princess candnce's husband and twilight is princess candnce's step sister i think the part of the famliy had step sisters as a alicorn but i really support twilight more.

[Rokkurin 214]

I understand why they put Twilight as an alicorn. But in my opinion, it doesn't matter. Now their are going to be a lot new sorts of adventures.

[Zoraxe 546]

Yes.

 

...

 

Damn, what else can I put here?

 

I feel she earned the wings by proving that she has learned the true power of friendship, or something. Plus, she looks so pretty 

 

Magical Mystery Cure was a story where Celestia sends an unfinished spell to Twilight, knowing that Twilight would try to use the spell causing the problems of the episode. And once Twilight fixed the problem, it caused Twilight to become an Alicorn.

 

So, by simple examining the story of that episode, Twilight was coerced into becoming a Princess. How is that "earning it"? Thats not earning it at all, anymore than being born a princess earns you that title. Furthermore, this story has Celestia being the antagonist of the episode, since she was the cause of all the suffering the characters went through, including Twilight who blamed herself for what happened. Celestia was able to exploit someones flaws successfully, that is all 'Magical Mystery Cure' is.

[Rinkitty 589]

Magical Mystery Cure was a story where Celestia sends an unfinished spell to Twilight, knowing that Twilight would try to use the spell causing the problems of the episode. And once Twilight fixed the problem, it caused Twilight to become an Alicorn.

 

So, by simple examining the story of that episode, Twilight was coerced into becoming a Princess. How is that "earning it"? Thats not earning it at all, anymore than being born a princess earns you that title. Furthermore, this story has Celestia being the antagonist of the episode, since she was the cause of all the suffering the characters went through, including Twilight who blamed herself for what happened. Celestia was able to exploit someones flaws successfully, that is all 'Magical Mystery Cure' is.

If you watch the series, you can see that Twilight's ability to socialize and become friends with other ponies gets stronger with every episode. It all leads up to the season 3 finale, where she solves yet another friendship-oriented problem, and earns her wings by doing so.

 

And Celestia being the antagonist is just ridiculous. Quit trying to make Friendship is Magic into something it's not.

[Zoraxe 546]

If you watch the series, you can see that Twilight's ability to socialize and become friends with other ponies gets stronger with every episode. It all leads up to the season 3 finale, where she solves yet another friendship-oriented problem, and earns her wings by doing so.

 

And Celestia being the antagonist is just ridiculous. Quit trying to make Friendship is Magic into something it's not.

 

 

No, it doesn't lead to the series finale, all it means is that Celestia had an ulterior motive for Twilight, how does that logically lead to Celestia deciding to royally mess with Twilight and her friends like she was Discord. Or that Celestia didn't trust Twilight to make her own decision about an important direction her own life will take. Do you know how disrespectful that is?

 

Twilight had no choice on the matter, Celestia just up and 'discorded' Twilights friends in order to trick Twilight into becoming something.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Zoraxe

[Rinkitty 589]

No, it doesn't lead to the series finale, all it means is that Celestia had an ulterior motive for Twilight, how does that logically lead to Celestia deciding to royally mess with Twilight and her friends like she was Discord. Or that Celestia didn't trust Twilight to make her own decision about an important direction her own life will take. Do you know how disrespectful that is?

 

Twilight had no choice on the matter, Celestia just up and 'discorded' Twilights friends in order to trick Twilight into becoming something.

No. Celestia wasn't messing with Twilight. She wasn't playing a trick on Twilight. She wasn't doing it just for kicks and giggles. She's was testing Twilight. She created a trial for Twilight to see if she was worthy. Twilight passed the trial, and earned her wings. I'm not sure why you're twisting the plot into another Discord episode.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Rinku

[Zoraxe 546]

No. Celestia wasn't messing with Twilight. She wasn't playing a trick on Twilight. She wasn't doing it just for kicks and giggles. She's was testing Twilight. She created a trial for Twilight to see if she was worthy. Twilight passed the trial, and earned her wings. I'm not sure why you're twisting the plot into another Discord episode.

 

Oh, so because Celestia had good intentions, it made what she did alright? How Machiavellian.

 

And you keep overlooking the fact that Twilight wasn't asked, the manner of witch she became an Alicorn was that she was forced into being one. Celestia exploiting Twilights flaw in order to create the mess in Ponyville, creating a situation where Twilight had 2 options.

 

A- Fix the problem

B- don't fix the problem and leave her friends all messed up and blaming herself for that.

 

But Celestia knew that Twilight would fix the problem, thus knowing that Twilight would turn into an Alicorn. But Twilight didn't know, all she knew was that she wanted to prevent 'B', she didn't know that 'A' would lead to becoming a princess. So it wasn't a test, it was just a vehicle for deception to coerce Twilight into becoming an Alicorn.

 

A ploy, and Twilight was the patsy.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Zoraxe