What Bothers Me About Pro-Twilicorns

[Pixel Stick 927]

 

Now, when I read over your post, I imagine you see me as: "NUH UH, THEY RUINED MANY GOOD IDEAS NOW, AND NOW THEY'LL NEVER HAPPEN" which I am not saying, they've limited some potential but there's still a chance that it'll happen, it's not too complicated really. They'll give us some good episodes, some we'll never see to be discussed.

 

Nah, that was me misunderstanding your post.  My apologies.  I am, however, kinda jaded on this topic because there are an awful lot of people who ARE saying that.

[TailsIsNotAlone 3,696]

Shadow Chaser, on 02 Mar 2013 - 19:52, said:

The idea is that it falls to the golden rule. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

That's not the golden rule at all. The golden rule is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

 

"If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" is a fallacy that disregards free speech. It's never been a tenet of this board, and I think that is for the best.

 

As for the issue at hand: I don't separate people into pro and anti-Twilicorn. Those are generalizations and they're not really accurate.

Edited March 3, 2013 by TailsIsNotAlone

[TwilizzleFoShizzle 95]

I think what's happened is that over time people have thought of themselves as better or smarter for not reacting to situations like this while everybody else is supposedly over reacting. However, over time everybody has become part of the group that pretends they are hipsters and well informed and all that jazz because they don't react, and that creates an environment in which those who actually have an opinion and react end up ridiculed.

Allow me to drop some mad mathematics on you guys.

 

You see, complaining forms a fractal due to the effect of the Lorenz model of the Butterfly Effect, where human psychology is driven to constantly address each new facet of complaint in the form of complaint. That is, people complain, people complain about the complainers, people complain about the people complaining about the complainers, et cetera. The following graph sums it up best:

 

the problem with that model is that for it to be a true representation of nuclear fission, it would be more like a complainer breaks somebody else down so they start complaining about the complainer hurting their feel goods, and then they end up breaking down the first complainer such that they start complaining, causing others to complain to others about the one guy's complaining, etc etc. In your model, each complainer could be an individual party which would be less like fission because fission is based on the release of energy from an atom as it is broken down, like the release of complaints from a person as their argument is broken down by somebody else complaining.

[Veronica The Miffvixen 232]

I think what's happened is that over time people have thought of themselves as better or smarter for not reacting to situations like this while everybody else is supposedly over reacting. However, over time everybody has become part of the group that pretends they are hipsters and well informed and all that jazz because they don't react, and that creates an environment in which those who actually have an opinion and react end up ridiculed.

 

the problem with that model is that for it to be a true representation of nuclear fission, it would be more like a complainer breaks somebody else down so they start complaining about the complainer hurting their feel goods, and then they end up breaking down the first complainer such that they start complaining, causing others to complain to others about the one guy's complaining, etc etc. In your model, each complainer could be an individual party which would be less like fission because fission is based on the release of energy from an atom as it is broken down, like the release of complaints from a person as their argument is broken down by somebody else complaining.

I know. I just chose that model for the sake of humour. Because in both fission and complaining, everything ends up breaking down.

[Wingnut 7,018]

One, I don't have to "accept" this change but I will "tolerate" it if necessary.  Two, I liked the Mane 6 better when they were equally talented (albeit in different ways).  Even if Twilight is still able to relate to her friends the old way, she now undeniably has greater ability than them.  How can this NOT have ramifications on group dynamics? 

 

Some people were speculating that Magical Mystery Cure might end with a cliffhanger.  I laughed and said it wouldn't because they'd never do something that cruel to a young viewing audience.  But now we have all these questions, concerns, and fears of season 4.  Ironically, I feel like they gave us a worse season ending cliffhanger than Transformers Prime ever did. 

[Shanks 10,817]

Ironically, I feel like they gave us a worse season ending cliffhanger than Transformers Prime ever did. 

Actually a cliffhanger I can handle, this was way way worse than a mere cliffhanger. At least with a cliffhanger it gives you somewhat of a clue as to what will happen next while we don't know even the slightest bit more than we did before about the Twilight alicorn thing. I wasn't expecting them to tell us everything in the season finale and would have been shocked if they did but I was at least expecting a bit more than "hey Twilight you get to be an alicorn princess because you have been a good teachers pet and have friends."

 

. 

[Pixel Stick 927]

Two, I liked the Mane 6 better when they were equally talented (albeit in different ways). Even if Twilight is still able to relate to her friends the old way, she now undeniably has greater ability than them. How can this NOT have ramifications on group dynamics?

 

She already had greater ability than everyone else - in that she had more powerful magic than Rarity, and none of the other ponies could use magic at all.  Also, there's been nothing to suggest that becoming an alicorn necessarily grants her additional powers (other than the ability to fly) - she may very well still need to develop those powers herself, so becoming an alicorn may not have changed anything in that regard.  (We don't know.)

 

And as I've been saying this whole time, yes, we know it'll have impacts on the group dynamics.  It would be completely unrealistic and foolish for us to assume that things will just go on like they always have and nobody will notice that Twilight's a princess with wings.  Of course it'll have ramifications.  The opportunities to explore those ramifications and how the Mane 6 will cope with the changes, and learn valuable life lessons having to do with such changes, are just as rich and diverse as the lessons that have already been taught about friendship itself.

Edited March 3, 2013 by Harvan

[SongBrony 419]

I don't know why you don't like it, but from what I've seen from others, it's because they say things that don't make a lot of sense. ONe of the things I keep hearing, is that the writers are doing it for money and that Twilight is going to leave her friends. Both are ridiculous. But if you don't like it because you feel like they didn't do it right, or they rushed it, then I understand your opinion. But the blame is on both Pro and anti Twilicorns. People have gotten mad at me for being Pro Twilicorn. I personally feel like they did a good job with it, but we need to see the rest of the plot before we get the big picture. There are two more episodes in Season 4 about Twilicorn. 

 

Another reason I think there's hate is because there's a lot of threads about it. After awhile, it can get annoying. I first came here thinking, "This is just another stupid attempt to make it seem like Twilicorn is stupid." But, I see it was different then that. Personally, I don't care if you like it or don't. It's a personal preference about a twist in the show.

[Shanks 10,817]

I don't know why you don't like it, but from what I've seen from others, it's because they say things that don't make a lot of sense.

True there are indeed some arguments on the anti twilicorn side that are a bit bogus but there are some arguments on the pro twilicorn side that don't really make a lot of sense either the one that comes to mind is "this is the greatest thing ever." I don't hate the people that have this opinion but with how rushed the finale was it is so far the furthest thing from being the greatest thing ever but can still work out.

[SongBrony 419]

True there are indeed some arguments on the anti twilicorn side that are a bit bogus but there are some arguments on the pro twilicorn side that don't really make a lot of sense either the one that comes to mind is "this is the greatest thing ever." I don't hate the people that have this opinion but with how rushed the finale was it is so far the furthest thing from being the greatest thing ever but can still work out.

I agree. The greatest thing ever could arguably be Discord being reformed, or seeing a member of RD's family, or her getting into the Wonderbolts Academy. Since there are two more episodes all about Twilicorn coming out in the S4 premier, whether it becomes the greatest, worst, or okay thing ever is still to be determined.

[Pixel Stick 927]

True there are indeed some arguments on the anti twilicorn side that are a bit bogus but there are some arguments on the pro twilicorn side that don't really make a lot of sense either the one that comes to mind is "this is the greatest thing ever." I don't hate the people that have this opinion but with how rushed the finale was it is so far the furthest thing from being the greatest thing ever but can still work out.

 

That's why I keep asking if people are against the Twilicorn idea because they genuinely don't want to see Twilight become an Alicorn, or if they're against it because of the way it was delivered to us in the finale.  From my observations, there have been about twice as many people who simply didn't like the finale and fear the rest of the show will go like that, than there are people who think Twilight's ascension itself is a bad idea, no matter how it's portrayed.

[Shanks 10,817]

That's why I keep asking if people are against the Twilicorn idea because they genuinely don't want to see Twilight become an Alicorn, or if they're against it because of the way it was delivered to us in the finale.  From my observations, there have been about twice as many people who simply didn't like the finale and fear the rest of the show will go like that, than there are people who think Twilight's ascension itself is a bad idea, no matter how it's portrayed.

I am against it because I feel it is way too soon in the story to justify such a massive change and that because of this it puts Twilight dangerously close to Mary Sue territory because of the risk of her becoming too powerful too quickly. I don't think Twilight eventually becoming an alicorn was a bad idea but the way it was introduced made it seem like it came out nowhere and made the entire finale feel like just a formality to fill up space until the coronation. As some pro twilicorns have pointed out there was some foreshadowing that this would eventually happen but I do not feel that it pointed to it happening anywhere near this soon, in the Crystal Empire two parter in particular it hinted that if Twilight passed her test that she would be ready for "the next level of her training" which could have meant a lot of things other than her becoming an alicorn. I personally thought the next level of her training would have been her mastering dark magic as although she has shown a proficiency for it I don't think she has fully mastered it yet.

[Wingnut 7,018]

 

She already had greater ability than everyone else - in that she had more powerful magic than Rarity, and none of the other ponies could use magic at all.

 

In the most abstract sense, say Rarity could trade her dress-making know-how, fashion sense, and business acumen for an equal amount of magic knowledge and power. Or that Applejack could trade her farming and rodeo talents for magic. Or Fluttershy could trade animal care. But then, these are absurd comparisons because it's impossible to quantify talents. Even though Twilight was always the leader and got to wear the tiara while the rest wear necklaces, she only seemed slightly “better” than her friends. Now she is truly in a league of her own. It'll take some getting used to. 

 

I agree with everything else you said. Oh well, if I could survive the dramatic changes between Transformers seasons 2 and 3, I can make it through this too.

[SongBrony 419]

I am against it because I feel it is way too soon in the story to justify such a massive change and that because of this it puts Twilight dangerously close to Mary Sue territory because of the risk of her becoming too powerful too quickly. I don't think Twilight eventually becoming an alicorn was a bad idea but the way it was introduced made it seem like it came out nowhere and made the entire finale feel like just a formality to fill up space until the coronation. As some pro twilicorns have pointed out there was some foreshadowing that this would eventually happen but I do not feel that it pointed to it happening anywhere near this soon, in the Crystal Empire two parter in particular it hinted that if Twilight passed her test that she would be ready for "the next level of her training" which could have meant a lot of things other than her becoming an alicorn. I personally thought the next level of her training would have been her mastering dark magic as although she has shown a proficiency for it I don't think she has fully mastered it yet.

Oh I'll agree that it was brought in too soon. I would've been happy if they brought it in at around Season 5 finale or Season 6. But hopefully they can make it work in the next two episodes

[Two-of-Hearts 168]

Ultimately the issue has caused hurt feelings on both sides... which sucks no matter what side you're on. Because we're all bronies, and to see something causing this much of a rift... well it just sucks. As pro Twilight Alicorn as I am, I am starting to wish it hadn't happend just for the sake of how much division it has caused. Honestly we're starting to look like Republicans and Democrats here. We're bronies... can't we all just... get along? 

 

Well maybe thats being little dramatic. I don't think a brony would deny me a hug just for being pro alicorn.

[Dusty Soul 2,614]

People are telling others to calm down because we've heard enough panic over it.  Until the fourth season comes around no one pro-and anti's can't say anything about it.  Opinions change and I'll bet some pros will change their mind.

[Veronica The Miffvixen 232]

Note that, in this situation, you have these groups:

 

Proponents: Ardent supporters of the... Twilicorn. Generally, people who try to say it's all awesome and all that lame fluffy crap.

 

Opponents: People suffering from either chronic/acute butthurt or incredible concentrations of angst. They hate the... Twilicorn.

 

Peacemakers: People who want to be different, so they try agreeing with two totally contradictory sides in order to end up a winner.

 

And people like me who use analytics to try and get people to realize how stupid this fighting can be.

[poniesforfun 716]

I think the fact that there's this many pro-Twilicorn that keep telling us to calm down are actually feeling insecure about Twilicorn's change. If that was the case why would we have over 15 threads on about this going on about the same things with the pro-Twilicorns here to begin with?

[Pixel Stick 927]

I think the fact that there's this many pro-Twilicorn that keep telling us to calm down are actually feeling insecure about Twilicorn's change. If that was the case why would we have over 15 threads on about this going on about the same things with the pro-Twilicorns here to begin with?

The way I see it, the "opposition forces" spend a lot of time and energy trying to get everyone to be mad about the show, and then the "In Defense Of Twilicorn Movement" feels it has to retaliate. Thus an ever-escalating war, in which there are many people hoping cooler heads will prevail.

 

I agree with the "wait and see" crowd. It's just another way of saying "don't judge a book by its cover.". I'm continually amazed how quickly people in this fandom conveniently forget that lesson.

[Minecraft200 6]

as long as twilicorn personality doesn't change..im happy but if she changes...which i hope not,i will agree that twilicorn changing is a bad idea.. BROHOOF

[Bucky McGillyCuddy 956]

Pro Twilicorn =  Positive talk about an aspect of the show

Anti Twilicorn = Negative talk about an aspect of the show

 

It's not wrong to have your opinion it's only because you're talking negatively about a part of the show that i think some people have a problem with it. I'm pro-Twilicorn partially because i know "whinging" about it isn't going to change anything anyway. It would be a waste of my time.

[poniesforfun 716]

The way I see it, the "opposition forces" spend a lot of time and energy trying to get everyone to be mad about the show, and then the "In Defense Of Twilicorn Movement" feels it has to retaliate. Thus an ever-escalating war, in which there are many people hoping cooler heads will prevail.

 

I agree with the "wait and see" crowd. It's just another way of saying "don't judge a book by its cover.". I'm continually amazed how quickly people in this fandom conveniently forget that lesson.

 

It just feels like we're choosing a side just so we can have fun debating about it. I mean why would pro-Twilicorns be worried about what we're saying it's not like Hasbro is going to change her back to an unicorn because of us. Well let's just wait for the next 20th thread on the same subject just so we can do this all over again. :/

 

 

Pro Twilicorn =  Positive talk about an aspect of the show

Anti Twilicorn = Negative talk about an aspect of the show

 

It's not wrong to have your opinion it's only because you're talking negatively about a part of the show that i think some people have a problem with it. I'm pro-Twilicorn partially because i know "whinging" about it isn't going to change anything anyway. It would be a waste of my time.

 

Well if you don't stand for something and/or can't maintain it, then Hasbro would think everyone is OK with whatever they do and will keep doing it. Though I doubt they really care what we think... still practicing vigilance is important. Obviously the focus on Scootaloo, more Rainbow Dash episodes and the return of Discord could possibly mean they know how they're popular to Bronies so they instill them into the season 3 episodes (after all I doubt little girls care about Discord or a side character like Scootaloo).

Edited March 4, 2013 by poniesforfun

[Pinkazoid 3,493]

That's why I keep asking if people are against the Twilicorn idea because they genuinely don't want to see Twilight become an Alicorn, or if they're against it because of the way it was delivered to us in the finale.  From my observations, there have been about twice as many people who simply didn't like the finale and fear the rest of the show will go like that, than there are people who think Twilight's ascension itself is a bad idea, no matter how it's portrayed.

 

 

It's weird, I've been labeling myself as Anti-Twilicorn, mostly because I just think the show could of lived without the change, and the only reason I hate it so, is of what it's done to the community.

 

What I really hated was the Finale.

 

What exactly was the moral? What were we supposed to learn?

 

Twilicorn's transformation, and the Cutie Mark change had nothing to do with each other, they could of been separate episodes, and maybe even be better. It feels they used the rest of the Mane 6 as nothing but fillers.

 

If the princess was kidnapped, the Mane 6 saved her, and then Twilight turned into an Alicorn because of "Leadership" or something like that. It'd still be the same. She'd be an Alicorn, and the whole episode would be a filler.

 

Pro Twilicorn =  Positive talk about an aspect of the show

Anti Twilicorn = Negative talk about an aspect of the show

 

It's not wrong to have your opinion it's only because you're talking negatively about a part of the show that i think some people have a problem with it. I'm pro-Twilicorn partially because i know "whinging" about it isn't going to change anything anyway. It would be a waste of my time.

I really don't think I'm being negative, more along the lines of Realist, I've said anything can happen, and god, I hope it does, but in order to truly appreciate something good, I must lower my expectations, I don't wanna see the same thing happen, as it did on the finale.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Francis Sparkle

[Betez 1,735]

Alright. I just feel like those who oppose Twilicorn have a closed mind. I know you're not like that guy who made the topic saying he hates Pro-Twilicorns, but I still feel like you should give Twilicorn a chance.

[hawkflame 3,315]

Alright. I just feel like those who oppose Twilicorn have a closed mind. I know you're not like that guy who made the topic saying he hates Pro-Twilicorns, but I still feel like you should give Twilicorn a chance.

 

And I'm not sure why it's the business of others to make sure Anti-Twilicorns "give it a chance".  Let people have their own opinions, no matter how misguided you think they are.