Nightmare Moon and Season 4 [Spoilers]

[ItsRay24 4]

You can go ahead and drop it then I'm only stating my opinion here and I don't no why you would drop a series over that I feel like the series is getting better each episode. I was also wondering do you ponies think that twilight will still be writing letters to celestia about the discoveries of friendship sense she is a princess now??? Just wondering

[Wardaddy 470]

Gilda was a one-off character and that was it.  Plus it was not like they established her as being redeemed and then went back on it, she was just a bad seed to begin with. 

 

With Luna, it would make the ending of the series premiere, and all of Luna Eclipsed, into a giant lie.  All of the growth that she experienced there will have been for nothing.  And if she goes evil and then becomes re-redeemed, how would anyone even trust her again?  They would just look like idiots.

If Luna is revealed as an over-arcing villain, then the only growth she needs is to grow into a truly evil, deceptive villain! The growth you talk about, if Luna was indeed revealed as a villain, was all merely smoke and mirrors! That is a hallmark of any great villain, to lure the good guys in, before giving them a whack across the face for believing so foolishly that Princess Luna, the alicorn of the night, the alicorn that was and still is Nightmare Moon, was reformed! So you can take all that into account, and have a good, long, hard think about it. Not trying to be offensive, but to me, you're in denial, and I'm just trying to bring to light the facts that point at Luna being evil. We all are.

 

And by the way, who said anything about reforming Luna again? It may be that Celestia will have to either imprison her for good, or end her life. But considering that it's a kids show, the latter probably won't happen. But reforming?! That would be stupid, as Luna would just go evil again and again and again, before being defeated again and again and again. The cycle would become pointless and boring.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Firebolt Blitz

[Scootadress 361]

 

The comics:

 

NMM = separate being.

 

Nightmare Rarity = NMM revived via Rarity's insecurities.

 

Climax = NMM/NMR nearly breaking Luna again, but not THIS time, as Luna realizes Equestria now backs her 100% (she, Spike, and everypony else then give Rarity similar encouragement, finally weakening NMM/NMR and letting the Mane 6 **** HER @$$ UP!!!).

 

So, I say S4!NMM's a flashback/test/etc., because too much wasted character development if present/genuine/etc.

 

Like stated earlier, the comics hold no barring to the actual cannon of the show. Its licensed from Hasboro, but it holds no actual baring on the cannon of the show. Its there to be there.

Gilda was a one-off character and that was it.  Plus it was not like they established her as being redeemed and then went back on it, she was just a bad seed to begin with. 

 

With Luna, it would make the ending of the series premiere, and all of Luna Eclipsed, into a giant lie.  All of the growth that she experienced there will have been for nothing.  And if she goes evil and then becomes re-redeemed, how would anyone even trust her again?  They would just look like idiots.

But not all the characters in the show were redeemed in the end, even if she held the those traits from the episodes, it wouldn't be a lie and she still would have "learned", but in a negative way. She would have easily learned how to gain the trust of these ponies, like learned in Luna Eclipsed, but use that as a way of saying "HA". Sometimes, even in a show like this, the best lesson isn't always "someone must be redeemed" because "not everyone can be redeemed".  She can't be redeemed, like Discord wasn't trusted either. She'll end up becoming like Discord:

 

Nopony will trust her. Discord's not very trusted either because of his stunt during his rule and what he did later.

[hawkflame 3,310]

If Luna is revealed as an over-arcing villain, then the only growth she needs is to grow into a truly evil, deceptive villain! The growth you talk about, if Luna was indeed revealed as a villain, was all merely smoke and mirrors! That is a hallmark of any great villain, to lure the good guys in, before giving them a whack across the face for believing so foolishly that Princess Luna, the alicorn of the night, the alicorn that was and still is Nightmare Moon, was reformed! So you can take all that into account, and have a good, long, hard think about it. Not trying to be offensive, but to me, you're in denial, and I'm just trying to bring to light the facts that point at Luna being evil. We all are.

 

... You are so missing the messages of the show so far that I cannot believe that we're even watching the same series.  That's what you *want* to happen, that's what you think would be "cool"  but to pull the rug under the viewers in a show like *this*, with kids in mind, is to undermine the viewer's trust in what they believe in regarding the show. 

 

Denial? Show me the evidence, actual in-show EVIDENCE, and not supposition, that show that she's still Nightmare Moon.  What facts are you talking about? 

 

And do you really, honestly think that any of this is going to come to pass? 

Like stated earlier, the comics hold no barring to the actual cannon of the show. Its licensed from Hasboro, but it holds no actual baring on the cannon of the show. Its there to be there.

But not all the characters in the show were redeemed in the end, even if she held the those traits from the episodes, it wouldn't be a lie and she still would have "learned", but in a negative way. She would have easily learned how to gain the trust of these ponies, like learned in Luna Eclipsed, but use that as a way of saying "HA". Sometimes, even in a show like this, the best lesson isn't always "someone must be redeemed" because "not everyone can be redeemed".  She can't be redeemed, like Discord wasn't trusted either. She'll end up becoming like Discord:

 

Nopony will trust her. Discord's not very trusted either because of his stunt during his rule and what he did later.

 

But that's still a lie, though, because it betrays the kind of character that was established in what some regard as one of the best episodes of Season 2. 

 

Sorry, this is all way too cynical a lesson for 6-11 year old girls to learn. 

[Scootadress 361]

... You are so missing the messages of the show so far that I cannot believe that we're even watching the same series.  That's what you *want* to happen, that's what you think would be "cool"  but to pull the rug under the viewers in a show like *this*, with kids in mind, is to undermine the viewer's trust in what they believe in regarding the show. 

 

Denial? Show me the evidence, actual in-show EVIDENCE, and not supposition, that show that she's still Nightmare Moon.  What facts are you talking about? 

 

And do you really, honestly think that any of this is going to come to pass? 

 

But that's still a lie, though, because it betrays the kind of character that was established in what some regard as one of the best episodes of Season 2. 

 

Sorry, this is all way too cynical a lesson for 6-11 year old girls to learn. 

Wait, how much do we even know of Luna herself? How can it destroy something we don't know from her in the first place? We had a few scenes from Luna, which only show a tad bit of how she really feels. Even then, we don't get very much on her. We see she's an awkward pony that has her head in the past and doesn't attempt to really face the future until Twilight tries doing something? 

 

Well, since MLP has a higher older fanbase, its not hard to imagine someone making something for the older fanbase. They tried with Equestria Girls. Its not like cartoons never reached out to adults later on when they have the child series. When the PPGs ended, they created the anime version of it (which, in all honesty, betrayed each character from the show, but made them more likable.) that was not targeted towards the younger crowd anymore. Though, I seen cartoons even go darker then that.

[Wardaddy 470]

... You are so missing the messages of the show so far that I cannot believe that we're even watching the same series.  That's what you *want* to happen, that's what you think would be "cool"  but to pull the rug under the viewers in a show like *this*, with kids in mind, is to undermine the viewer's trust in what they believe in regarding the show. 

 

Denial? Show me the evidence, actual in-show EVIDENCE, and not supposition, that show that she's still Nightmare Moon.  What facts are you talking about? 

 

And do you really, honestly think that any of this is going to come to pass? 

 

But that's still a lie, though, because it betrays the kind of character that was established in what some regard as one of the best episodes of Season 2. 

 

Sorry, this is all way too cynical a lesson for 6-11 year old girls to learn. 

Now, now. There's no need to raise voices here. I'm not saying it's going to happen, all I am saying is that it makes perfect sense and surely you can't deny that. It won't happen, considering the fact that kids watch the show (Don't you DARE think for a minute that I forgot that), and the only lesson they'll be taught is to not trust some people, and that's something that cannot be.

 

And by the way, don't you DARE say that I'm missing the messages of the show. It's in the bloody title: "FRIENDSHIP, IS, MAGIC"

I'm aware of the fact that the name of the game here is not deception, or going back on the message, and by saying what you said, you're making me look like some idiot who doesn't know shit about the show. If that were the case, I WOULDN'T BE WATCHING IT NOW, WOULD I?! Hell, I wouldn't even be a brony if I didn't get the goddamn message. Don't you dare think me a fool hawkflame, because there's two little words that I go by in this case: WHAT, IF

 

And lastly, it offends me that you think I think this is going to pass. IT WILL BE A FLASHBACK, and that's something I'm going to have to put up with, like it or not. It WOULD be nice to see Nightmare Moon return, but like you said, and like I'm fully aware of, it would be pointless, dumb as shit and it would be going against the core message of the show, plus it would ruin Luna's character dev.

 

So yeah, I'm not a fool, nor am I a dreamer. I'm a bit of both; a dreamer AND a realist. So nopony, especially you, better think me a fool, cause I'm no fool. This thread, along with every theory in it, is all part of a big goddamn game called "WHAT, IF". Thanks for reading, have a nice day

[DruVirus 0]

Like stated earlier, the comics hold no barring to the actual cannon of the show. Its licensed from Hasboro, but it holds no actual baring on the cannon of the show. Its there to be there.

Actually, having worked security at BronyCon (specifically only with the staff of the comic) this question came up a lot with people who approached them. And the answer was always this: The comic is completely canon with the show. The story-lines they use in the comic are approved of by Hasbro every step of the way and are canon with the entirety of the MLP:FIM universe. Often times they get rejected story-lines simply because it's something they plan to do in the recent or far future; meaning, that something like "The Nightmare" is canon with the show, however, the writers/directors/showrunners have no intention of showing, talking about, or highlighting this in the actual show. Or at least not to the extent that the comics do.

 

Think of the comics more like Equestria Girls: canon to the show but not really something they'll ever bring up so it doesn't matter in the show's context. Only in the over-all world building of the MLP universe. 

 

That being said, the fourth season opener is likely a flashback that Celestia put Twilight in. Too many signs point to it being so, such as Luna talking about "basking in your precious light", the fact the throne room has two thrones, unlike now (and is quite different than the current throne room altogether), and Luna's basic overall demeanor. I doubt she'd pull a one-eighty and go from being happy and smiley during the coronation and SUDDENLY super evil the next day. 

[FNGRpony 658]

I'm not sure if the rest of the mane 5 would do much. I was curious about the idea of having something that was stronger then the elements come to play. I taggled with the idea myself using 3 ponies of the three races. Maybe it would look a little better if it wasn't always the mane 6 doing all the work? I'm not sure. ^^"

 

 

HA! I like the way this dude thinks. One episode is all it takes for this. 

 

 

well lets be honest.

Trixie was never really cut out to be a main bad guy.

 

Now a side kick, or a hench wench, hell yes!

 

I saw a fan video where sombre makes an offer to twilght she quickly turns down

(It's amazing the miracles fans pull with sombre loL).

 

Now replace twilight with trixie in that scene.  we might have had something.

 

I think that's sunsets problem.  she's a lacky (No literally even as a good guy) who just exceeded her post in life.

She tried to disregard her mediocrity and paid for it.  (anyone else picture diamond tiara saying that at a bad guy meeting?)

Edited September 22, 2013 by FNGRpony

[Zygen 6,066]

I personally don't think that nessarly celestia would teach such a lesson, seeing as friendship involves trust, not being skeptical of your friends all the time.

 

And I don't think NMM is returning anytime soon. I just don't see it as that likely especially due to the way the scene is in the spoiler.

 

All I know for sure is celestia is showing twilight about NMMs origins somehow. Why I have no idea really.

[Castle Bleck 19,383]

@DruVirus- That being said, any rumors on the NEXT comic series? I presume Discord's an eventual given, but what about King Sombra? I know the creators said he died on the show, but fans AND trading cards keep using his horn as a 'Chekov's Gun'; as wrestling fans would say, "One more match! One more match!"

[Wardaddy 470]

OK everypony, now that we have a headcanon theory, from here I think we should resume focusing on the sneak peek at Comic-Con. Was it Celestia who showed Twi that flashback? And if so, why would she do that?

 

Try to remember that before the scene started, Twilight's cutie mark flashed on screen, and the design was the exact same as the cutie mark that flashed in Magical Mystery Cure, denoting that this was no animation error, and somehow the cutie mark and flashback might be linked. Let the speculation begin!

[Dark Horn 430]

OK everypony, now that we have a headcanon theory, from here I think we should resume focusing on the sneak peek at Comic-Con. Was it Celestia who showed Twi that flashback? And if so, why would she do that?

 

Try to remember that before the scene started, Twilight's cutie mark flashed on screen, and the design was the exact same as the cutie mark that flashed in Magical Mystery Cure, denoting that this was no animation error, and somehow the cutie mark and flashback might be linked. Let the speculation begin!

No, Twilight was asking NMM where Luna and Celestia had gone, therefore, assuming that it is, in fact, a trip into Tia's memories, I imagine it would be a contingency of some sort Celestia has in place, something Cadance showed her, or something Twiley discovers for herself.

[Midnight shadowlight 3]

Nightmare moon will return but not as we expect her to be she will return in FLASH BACK of celistia claming it was all her fault and the 6 conforting her ive heard seson 4 mainly foucusus int the past 

[Wardaddy 470]

Nightmare moon will return but not as we expect her to be she will return in FLASH BACK of celistia claming it was all her fault and the 6 conforting her ive heard seson 4 mainly foucusus int the past 

Yes, I've come to accept that, thanks very much. How foolish it was of me to try and defy the signs? How pointless of me to try and drive a character with great strides of development backwards? How naïve was it of me, to think that Nightmare Moon would return, based on Luna's non-existent jealousy of Twilight? What could Luna possibly have against Twi? She's a princess, an alicorn and now she's known and loved by the citizens of Ponyville. There's no reason for her to go back to Nightmare Moon, and especially before I began ranting on trying to think of theories, I should've just faced the facts. NMM won't be returning anytime soon, malevolent spirit or not.

[Darker 1,351]

And then, Twilight saw that Nightmare Moon flashback that didn't serve any purpose.