Concerning the whole "old is better than new" phenomenon.

[Le Kvlt Dawn 2,364]

There always people complaining about how things "suck" these days, and that things were "better back then". I'm getting really sick of this. It's like everywhere you go on the internet you'll find somebody who's either 13 or 40 complaining about how "bad" things like music, cartoons, Pokemon, movies, entertainment, living standards, values, etc. are these days. 

 

I'll start off with cartoons. A lot of times it's not that cartoons from back then are any better, it's just that you're used to them because you grew up with them, therefor you like them. That being said, the cartoons of today are cartoons that you are not used to because you didn't grow up with them, therefor they most likely don't appeal to you. It's just nostalgia playing dirty tricks with your head. I for one have always enjoyed what's on Cartoon Network, I've been watching it since the days of the original Cartoon Cartoons and I still like it. I really like AT, RS, and Gumball, as well as their precursors Chowder and Flapjack. There's also a lot of great anime out there, and I've always been fond of Pixar movies.

 

If you know me then you probably know how annoyed I get when people blurt out phrases like "Almost all music these days is garbage". What people fail to realize is that the radio has always played garbage, it's been doing it for years and it's nothing new. Meanwhile, the underground has always been a gold mine. All the popular mainstream whateveryouwanttocallthem artists make up a very, very, very tiny percentage of all music, so to say that most modern music is bad based on them is completely inaccurate. Another thing people fail to realize is that as time passes, music gets more and more diverse. Today there are more genres, subgenres, and fusiongenres than there were 30 years ago. Every now and then you'll get some kid who says something like "AM I WEIRD BCUZ I LIEK CLASSIK RAWK INSTEAD OF MODERN POP GARBAGE", that too is annoying. How can you have a weird taste in music? I'm a fan of both black metal and J-pop and I don't view that as weird, not one bit.

 

People assume that "life was easier back then". But no, they're out their mind. There was once a point in time when smallpox was common, polio was common, racism was common, homosexuality was extremely taboo, being irreligious was frowned upon, gender roles were strict, there was the draft, etc,. If anything we've been making progress. Back then there was no internet or cellphones, or video games FFS. So why would anyone prefer to live back then than now? 

 

So what are your thoughts on this whole "nostalgia" phenomenon that's been sweeping the internet? 

 

[FractalMoon 378]

There always people complaining about how things "suck" these days, and that things were "better back then". I'm getting really sick of this. It's like everywhere you go on the internet you'll find somebody who's either 13 or 40 complaining about how "bad" things like music, cartoons, Pokemon, movies, entertainment, living standards, values, etc. are these days. 

 

I'll start off with cartoons. A lot of times it's not that cartoons from back then are any better, it's just that you're used to them because you grew up with them, therefor you like them. That being said, the cartoons of today are cartoons that you are not used to because you didn't grow up with them, therefor they most likely don't appeal to you. It's just nostalgia playing dirty tricks with your head. I for one have always enjoyed what's on Cartoon Network, I've been watching it since the days of the original Cartoon Cartoons and I still like it. I really like AT, RS, and Gumball, as well as their precursors Chowder and Flapjack. There's also a lot of great anime out there, and I've always been fond of Pixar movies.

 

If you know me then you probably know how annoyed I get when people blurt out phrases like "Almost all music these days is garbage". What people fail to realize is that the radio has always played garbage, it's been doing it for years and it's nothing new. Meanwhile, the underground has always been a gold mine. All the popular mainstream whateveryouwanttocallthem artists make up a very, very, very tiny percentage of all music, so to say that most modern music is bad based on them is completely inaccurate. Another thing people fail to realize is that as time passes, music gets more and more diverse. Today there are more genres, subgenres, and fusiongenres than there were 30 years ago. Every now and then you'll get some kid who says something like "AM I WEIRD BCUZ I LIEK CLASSIK RAWK INSTEAD OF MODERN POP GARBAGE", that too is annoying. How can you have a weird taste in music? I'm a fan of both black metal and J-pop and I don't view that as weird, not one bit.

 

People assume that "life was easier back then". But no, they're out their mind. There was once a point in time when smallpox was common, polio was common, racism was common, homosexuality was extremely taboo, being irreligious was frowned upon, gender roles were strict, there was the draft, etc,. If anything we've been making progress. Back then there was no internet or cellphones, or video games FFS. So why would anyone prefer to live back then than now? 

 

So what are your thoughts on this whole "nostalgia" phenomenon that's been sweeping the internet? 

From Webster's, 

nos·tal·gia (n)

\nä-ˈstal-jə, nə- also nȯ-, nō-; nə-ˈstäl-\

: pleasure and sadness that is caused by remembering something from the past and wishing that you could experience it again

Nostalgia is normally felt for something from 20 to 30 years in the past (hence all the cartoon network nostalgia nowatacos), but can encompass different time periods for different people. Some modern pop music is bad, some is good, just like every other year in music history. My take is one of scientific curiosity, why do people find this sort of thing interesting?

[Scootalove 10,685]

Oh, this is going to be good. Here are my thoughts on this ''old is better than new'' phenomenon, I think that there is nothing wrong with enjoying the classics and enjoying the current things in life. Since there is nothing wrong with that at all, now I may be sounding out of context here but the old days weren't exactly the best days since a lot of the problems these days were all started from the ''back in the day'' nostalgia. The old isn't exactly better than the new, and the new isn't better than the old it is better to leave it at neutral.

[Moonlight 7,279]

If you've already seen my posts, then you're already know my opinion; it's all dumbassery. It's annoying, it's stupid, and just aggrivating to hear every single area you go on the internet. I also can't stand people who say they want to live in the 60's, the 70's, etc... Sorry, but I would much rather stay in this time period with great internet connection, tons of entertainment (video games, anime, cartoons, music, etc..), and easier ways of communication. My best friend, is sadly, a nostaliga-obsessed moron. I recall talking to her about Pokemon and she responded with, "As far as I'm concerned, there's only 150 Pokemon". So fucking annoying. Yeah, my opinion on it isn't too friendly. 

[Jadefire 2,796]

I've heard two explanations for this: One is the Nostalgia Fallacy, where you put a lot more value into things from your past, as your brain will always color your memories in a very positive light. That leads you to remember only the good things about the past or the good details about things in the past, while you completely forget (or in some cases, deliberately ignore) all the bad things in the past. You get this a lot with fans of franchises, where the new entries in the franchise will lack the warm cozy feeling that the older entries gave them, because the older entries were part of their past and the newer ones aren't.

 

The other is a lack of perspective. Only the high-quality parts of culture get passed on to future generations. All songs you hear that were written in previous decades, for example, are all hits, songs that were super-famous; whereas the unpopular low-quality songs get forgotten and lost. This isn't the case in the present day, as we are all hearing music as they're getting released, good songs as well as all the garbage songs. This leads to those who listen to music to mistakenly assume that music is getting worse as time goes on, because all oldie songs they here are all great songs, whereas all the good songs today are overshadowed by garbage. What they don't know is that older generations had garbage as well, it's just none of it is being played any more.

 

If any of that makes sense.

[Fhaolan 4,468]

Concur with Jadefire here.

 

I get this a lot with antiques. Yes, most antiques are of a higher quality than the average whatever now. But that's only because the only pieces that survived were the high-quality ones. All the garbage stuff that was made then didn't last, and that moves the perceived 'average' quality up.

[Le Kvlt Dawn 2,364]

why do people find this sort of thing interesting?

Because they like it.

 

 

he old days weren't exactly the best days since a lot of the problems these days were all started from the ''back in the day'' nostalgia.

Exactly, I explained that in the last paragraph.

 

 

and easier ways of communication.

IMO the internet is the one of the greatest thing to happen to music. It just makes looking for music SO MUCH easier. Compare going on YouTube or last.fm to digging around yard sales for records. I do go to the record store every now then, but if were not for the internet I would've never became so enthusiastic about music.

 

 

I recall talking to her about Pokemon and she responded with, "As far as I'm concerned, there's only 150 Pokemon". So fucking annoying. Yeah, my opinion on it isn't too friendly. 

The Pokemon games seem to get better with every new generation, it's just more and more stuff being added.

 

The other is a lack of perspective. Only the high-quality parts of culture get passed on to future generations. All songs you hear that were written in previous decades, for example, are all hits, songs that were super-famous; whereas the unpopular low-quality songs get forgotten and lost. This isn't the case in the present day, as we are all hearing music as they're getting released, good songs as well as all the garbage songs. This leads to those who listen to music to mistakenly assume that music is getting worse as time goes on, because all oldie songs they here are all great songs, whereas all the good songs today are overshadowed by garbage. What they don't know is that older generations had garbage as well, it's just none of it is being played any more.

Yea, I forgot to mention that too. There was so much garbage in the 80's, boy am I glad I didn't grow up back then. They had so many cheesy hair bands, it's gross. Although, the post-punk back then was great.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Mirai Kuriyama

[Smarts 1,621]

I don't believe in that "old is better than new" nonsense. It's idiotic is what it is. When it comes to Pokemon, I find these idiots to be annoying. The games are getting better. New stuff and pokemon are being added as time goes on to expand the enjoyment people get out of it.

 

Also, when people say the old days were better than the present day. I say that they need a reality check because that is not true. Some people need to take off their nostalgia glasses because it makes them look dumb.

[Malinter 3,064]

its a fine curve really. new is better than old stuff but there comes a point where being "new" can be a change something for the worse.

 

 Kinda like how alot of games these days have gone for looking all awesome and HD but last barely a day, where older games could take weeks to finish. Gameplay made up for the lack of graphics and now its the reverse. So on that front I understand folks saying older games are better than new games and I agree on most of them.

 

Of course there are a few gems out that that manage to pull off looking great and not sacraficing on the gameplay but most its either one or the other,

Edited November 2, 2013 by Malinter

[galaxysquid 2,121]

The only time I believe old is better than new is the TV shows that Disney, Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon, and many other channels used to play. Those were the good times when it was nice family shows. Now it is just girls dancing and becoming nasty whatever you want to call them. People don't make very good decisions anymore. It's terrible. All this "YOLO SWAG" crap. I can't even. XD

 

I totally agree with you on this. Old is bad and so is new. But they can be good if you choose to live your life in the right era the right way. 

Edited November 2, 2013 by PrincessOfWub

[Shanks 10,811]

Yes nostalgia is quite powerful I won't deny that, but while I won't go as far as to say that everything new sucks and everything old is good it just seems like the standards for what passes as "good" just keep getting lower and lower. Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon used to air tons of quality shows where the creators had much more freedom in the creative process than they do now, the 90's is often called the "creator driven cartoon" era for good reason and the results were some of the best shows ever aired. Now Cartoon Network seems to have this rather nasty habit of bringing in a few good shows and turning itself around for a brief while and then just cancelling them 2 seconds later never to be heard from again. Nickelodeon has completely butchered Spongebob into a shell of its former self replaced most of the great cartoons it was once known for with some mediocre cartoons that are just stale and boring or this teen garbage which is a veritable who's list of Mary Sues/Gary Stu's. The only channel that is worse than Nickelodeon with the teen stuff is the Disney Channel. Was there crap on Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network at the time? Of course but it was at the very least a lot easier to filter that out from the stuff that actually is good. The only good stuff on Cartoon Network I can think of off the top of my head is what is on its late Saturday night lineup and the only good show on Nickelodeon is Avatar The Legend Of Korra. Gumball and Regular show are okay and I can understand why people like Adventure Time but other than nope, and Nickelodeon is pretty much dead to me.

 

The music scene is even more pathetic, there are plenty of good songs and talented musicians, groups and singers out there but they are unfortunetely being drowned out by the "mainstream" music scene where all you need to do is play the same few notes and chords over and over again and maybe add a robot voice of two somewhere and it is considered a "hit". It takes zero talent or creativity whatsoever to make modern pop music and if you can't sing you can always lip sinc as several "mainstream" "artists" have been known to do and if you can't even do that just add robot voice to every song.

 

The area of entertainment I will agree with the OP on though is video games, yes companies like Nintendo, Capcom and most notably Microsoft have been making some really stupid decisions lately but many of those same blunders were made by Sega years ago but then again you would think these people would learn from history especially as recent as this history was. And the quality of shooters has the most part gone down the crapper with carbon copy games like Call of Duty dominating a once great genre but  despite this there are now more good games then ever before to suit more tastes than ever before and that is a good thing. Indie developers are on the rise and are churning out some rather unique and creative games that while they can't match the budgets or graphical power of the more mainstream games are still well worth playing. That is not to say mainstream games are bad as there are plenty of good ones still gracing store shelves as well as being increasingly available for download. As gaming has become more and more mainstream even the quality of games geared toward "casual gamers" has gone up. I still love and appreciate the classics but I am looking forward to a lot of the new stuff coming out as well.

[*Rarity 123]

Peas tasted better back in the days! Why? I have no clue! But my opinion is the most valid and most important one, so it is fact. GOT IT?

Things change, people don't like change... Simple.

[GhostPony750 958]

music, cartoons, Pokemon, movies, entertainment, living standards, values

But all these are horrible nowaday! xD

 

Yep, it's way easier for people to complain about something, and way more intertaining. It's fun to find the flaws in something and then say it was horrible back then. But some people exaggerate waaay too much. For this reasons, what was really better "back then" is just ignored. So then comes insults like "genwunner" or some stuff, then wars.

 

Music: Less creative, it became a product, not an art anymore.

Cartoons: Violence, you don't learn anything from them (except MLP and a few exceptions)

Pokemon: It depends on taste, but the 5th gen was the worst. 6th is good.

Movies: Dunno, people doesn't seem to like them anymore. But the old classics are great!

Entertainment: Everyone starts to stay in front of the tv or the computer, walk without watching where they're going, becaue they are texting or whatever. When I was young, I would go outside and play with friends, even if I'm very introvert. But now, kids are stuck infront of their xbox/ps3.

Living Standarts and Values: The people are slowly becoming more and more introvert (not a natural one, a forced one), they don't really communicate in social interactions, they use their phones. We live in society, the people are close to each other. We become greedy. When our parents get old, we get rid of them. Simple as that.

 

All these above are facts (except for pokemon). the people just tell the truth, without any details, so everyone rage. It was really better "back then" on some occasions, but on some not. We can't really say that MLP was better "back then" lol.

 

Instead of criticizing, why don't you try to find the reasons of these statements? It may be something, or nothing. You can't really fall on anything else.

And you might be surprised.

[Le Kvlt Dawn 2,364]

Music: Less creative, it became a product, not an art anymore.

I've been digging these guys lately, they're a new favorite of mine. I can't wait to see what they come up with in the fututre.

 

 

The music scene is even more pathetic, there are plenty of good songs and talented musicians, groups and singers out there but they are unfortunetely being drowned out by the "mainstream" music scene where all you need to do is play the same few notes and chords over and over again and maybe add a robot voice of two somewhere and it is considered a "hit". It takes zero talent or creativity whatsoever to make modern pop music and if you can't sing you can always lip sinc as several "mainstream" "artists" have been known to do and if you can't even do that just add robot voice to every song.

I never use the radio, and I don't really care how unpopular an artists is. I don't see why people make such a big fuss about certain genres of music not being mainstream. I'd much rather have them stay underground. If they become mainstream they'll die out, it's what happened to grunge. Have you've ever listened to Nirvana's debut album? It's not what I would call "radio friendly". By the late 90's grunge died and it became post-grunge. Post-grunge is really radio friendly and washed out, and thus you get stuff like Nickelback and Creed.

 

 

Cartoons: Violence, you don't learn anything from them (except MLP and a few exceptions)

Alright then, what would video games be without violence? (Besides driving sims.)

 

 

Pokemon: It depends on taste, but the 5th gen was the worst. 6th is good.

I already said this, the Pokemon games improve with every generation. And some of the newer Pokemon are really well designed, like Braviary, Bandibuzz, and Sylveon. On the other hand, some of the older Pokemon aren't very original, Voltorb and Grimer are prime examples.

 

 

Movies: Dunno, people doesn't seem to like them anymore. But the old classics are great!

I don't really watch that many movies, but I do enjoy going to the theater every now and then.

 

 

Entertainment: Everyone starts to stay in front of the tv or the computer, walk without watching where they're going, becaue they are texting or whatever. When I was young, I would go outside and play with friends, even if I'm very introvert. But now, kids are stuck infront of their xbox/ps3.

Times are a changing, and you can't change them.

 

 

Living Standarts and Values: The people are slowly becoming more and more introvert (not a natural one, a forced one), they don't really communicate in social interactions, they use their phones. We live in society, the people are close to each other. We become greedy. When our parents get old, we get rid of them. Simple as that.

It's now easier for some one in North America to communicate with someone in Europe, isn't that a good thing? Note, our life expectancy has been going up over the years. In the Middle Ages dying before 40 was common.

 

All these above are facts (except for pokemon). the people just tell the truth, without any details, so everyone rage. It was really better "back then" on some occasions, but on some not. We can't really say that MLP was better "back then" lol.

No.

 

 

Instead of criticizing, why don't you try to find the reasons of these statements? It may be something, or nothing. You can't really fall on anything else. And you might be surprised.

-.- 

Edited November 2, 2013 by Mirai Kuriyama

[Feather Gem 965]

Sometimes, I think people just say all that stuff because the want to seem cool.  xD

Really, I think it's ridiculous.  I think there were good and bad things back then, and good and bad things now.  Like Spongebob.  Hey, Spongebob was the best show ever back then, but it's horrible now.  You could also look at MLP.  MLP was a nightmare to some back then, but it has a pretty big fandom now.  Even music.  They had awesome songs back then and they still do, as well as bad.

In the future, some kids will be going "They had awesome stuff in the past, now everything sucks" again

Well geez, maybe everything sucks then.

 

...

Like my posts nowadays.

Geez, I can't post at night anymore.  I'm going to bed.

[MelancholicMemory 2,022]

Looking at things objectively, some things, especially cartoons and whatnot were actually a lot better when the people of my generation were children. Writers' strikes in the 90s and whatnot, combined with a lower attitude towards children's intelligence, extreme PC standards, etc. have all lead to an overall decline in entertainment in regards to shows and movies. On the other hand, some things such as video games have actually made some improvement. They look better, sound better, play better, and usually have a more solid story. This is true overall, but people should keep in mind that there are plenty of exceptions to these trends. So, I'd say these people have a point, but their overall premise is wrong.

 

It is fallacious to assume that if something is newer or older, it is inherently better in every case. Doing so makes no sense, and it is rarely true. If you want a good explanation of this, David Hackett Fischer wrote quite a bit about this in his book, Historians' Fallacies. It gives a more general view on this perspective.

 

Now, I also see a lot of people who do insist that old things are better in every case, despite what is true. The reason for this is nostalgia, and, more particularly, that we tend to remember the good shows, music, etc. rather than the bad ones. For example, a lot of people talk about about how great the 90s were, but just look at it. the 90s gave us Britney Spears, The Backstreet Boys, N' Sync, boy bands in general, really cheesy techno and pop music, the decline of MTV, reality shows, and many more shitty things. Every time period has had lots of bad things and plenty of nice things too. That's how it works.

[Le Kvlt Dawn 2,364]

 

 

For example, a lot of people talk about about how great the 90s were, but just look at it. the 90s gave us Britney Spears, The Backstreet Boys, N' Sync, boy bands in general, really cheesy techno and pop music, the decline of MTV, reality shows, and many more shitty things. Every time period has had lots of bad things and plenty of nice things too. That's how it works.

The 80's were worse IMO, back then there were all the cheesy hairbands. Stuff like Bon Jovi, Poison, Whitesnake, Warrant, etc. it's all just awful. The 70's had disco, and disco sucks.

IMHO, I'd take the 90's and 00's over the 70's and 80's any day. The current decade so far had been pretty good, but we're only some what half way into it so I can't fully judge it. 

[FoxyCryptid 4,328]

I think it's partly nostalgia, but there are a couple things that have gotten worse over time(for example, mainstream pop music has gone to shit outside of country and more rock orientated groups due to overuse of badly done computer generated backing music and over-use of things like auto-tune).

The 80's were worse IMO, back then there were all the cheesy hairbands. Stuff like Bon Jovi, Poison, Whitesnake, Warrant, etc. it's all just awful. The 70's had disco, and disco sucks.

IMHO, I'd take the 90's and 00's over the 70's and 80's any day. The current decade so far had been pretty good, but we're only some what half way into it so I can't fully judge it. 

 

I'd argue that the 80s was at least a good kind of cheesy, rather than unbearably stupid like some things tend to be now. Compare the 80s TMNT to something like Annoying Orange. 

[Le Kvlt Dawn 2,364]

 

 

(for example, mainstream pop music has gone to shit outside of country and more rock orientated groups due to overuse of badly done computer generated backing music and over-use of things like auto-tune).

Nah it's always been bad. 

 

 

I'd argue that the 80s was at least a good kind of cheesy, rather than unbearably stupid like some things tend to be now. Compare the 80s TMNT to something like Annoying Orange. 

Nah, Annoying Orange ain't that bad IMO. Unless you're referring to the television series, but it got cancelled.  

[ReverseFaller 2,483]

While I'll always have a certain nostalgia for older things from my childhood, I find it very easy to still enjoy new things. I love a lot of newer games/cartoons/music that I hear a lot of people online complain about.

 

I suppose I don't care when something was made. If I like it, I like it. Sure things nowadays are different than say 20 years ago, but change isn't always necessarily a bad thing.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Seibutsu Akuma

[lomk 20,663]

Old versus new is no new concept. Older folks for the longest time have been saying that things just aren't made they way they used to be. They say things used to be built to last. I do agree with that. My great-grandma has a shortwave radio from the World War II era that still works today. It's never needed any repair. So to say it's something that's just now sweeping the internet is accurate, yes. But the concept in whole is nothing new. 

 

I might go so far as to say that old cartoons and new cartoons aren't too different. I would go as far to say that we all grew up and our tastes changed as we matured. I'm pretty sure that if you were younger you'd legitimately enjoy some of the newer stuff (though I don't really care for it).

 

Concerning modern music, it's why I'm always careful to say the music that plays on the radio is garbage. There's new stuff being cranked out underground all the time that's pretty amazing stuff. You like rap? Check out Matlock. You like punk rock? Check out Hands Like Houses. You like country? Well I live in western Oklahoma so out of the 16 radio stations I pick up, about 12 of them are country. But really, don't judge modern music based on what's on the radio. Go check out Bandcamp and Beatport. 

 

Concerning life in general in older days, I'm sure nothing was easier back then. But I wouldn't have wanted to live in the 20th century anyway. I'd belong better in the 19th century so much better. I don't care about all the diseases that were around at that time. I would have been one of the ones who moved out west. Life wouldn't have been easy, but it would have been simple. There weren't a hundred things to worry about all the time, except for staying alive. I would prefer that lifestyle to the one I have now. 

 

But everyone has their opinions lol Actually, The whole old versus new thing doesn't bother me either way. People are gonna say that old stuff is better than new stuff all the time lol

[Rinkitty 589]

I only think the old is better than the new if it's actually true. While it's pretty easy to be nostalgia blind, it's also easy to have your own opinions on what's quality, and what's not.

 

Here's an example. Old Nickelodeon is better than current Nickelodeon. The shows they had back in the 90's were, for the most part, clever, silly, and entertaining. A majority of what they have now is complete and utter garbage that rots brain cells.

[Moved to Elsewhere 11,329]

I defiantly agree that I've seen people on the internet get too nostalgic and bash stuff without seeing it or before it even comes out. A perfect example of this is on Facebook pages. On the Cartoon Network Facebook page, whenever they announce a new show, there are many people who say stuff like "Bring back the old shows!" Even to an extent before they premiere.

 

Also on a 90s kid Facebook page, one time they showed a picture of a g1 or g2 my little pony and the people were like "This is much better than that that new crappy one." Those posts really made me mad. 

 

And if you want the most complaining about how tv sucks today, go on retro junk and read the articles.

 

Now do somewhat agree on them that some channels have done stupid things (CN making live action shows, Nick overplaying Spongebob, High School Musical and Hannah montana sucked) but at the same time they still make some good shows.

To add to that, I didn't grow up in the 90s being born in 98, so I decided to check out some 90s because I heard good things about them. Well I  did like most of what I saw there were some that were either boring or cheesy. But hey, that's just my opinion.

[Fluttershyfan94 5,739]

I only use it when it comes to cars, but not really regarding entertainment and etc. But it's a bit hypocritical of me, since even though I'm a fan of many muscle cars I'm actually a lot more into newer cars. So I can't really say it's something I say a lot, unless I see a beautiful muscle car I say something like that.

 

There are things that may have been better during a certain decade, but the same goes for the current decade. All of them have their ups and downs, so I guess even though some things may have been better, there certainly are things that weren't better.

[FoxyCryptid 4,328]

Nah it's always been bad. 

 

 

Nah, Annoying Orange ain't that bad IMO. Unless you're referring to the television series, but it got cancelled.  

 

Bad is subjective, and if you look pop has gotten progressively more stupid in both sound and how worthless the lyrical content is. At least stuff from the 80s was stupid in a cheesy and enjoyable way.