"Putting Your Hoof Down" - Darker atmosphere compared to other episodes?

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

This episode didn't have dark themes, but it felt like it showed us what Equestria really is. That it's not really a utopia it claims to be. Ponies were being jerks to other ponies, and hell, Pinkie Pie and Rarity even seemed a little out of character. What I mean is, Pinkie didn't seem to be the normal random pony she is normally; sometimes she got annoyed (although, I found this "other" Pinkie to be somewhat attractive - don't judge), and Rarity... well, her other side really showed off too. Like when she manipulated that random guy into giving her the stack of asparagus. Even though it was for Fluttershy, that was still kind of a whore-maneuver. All of this topped off with Fluttershy going off the deep end.

 

Oh yeah, Bon Bon and friend wouldn't move at the bridge. Another reason why I really dislike her. http://mlpforums.com/public/style_emoticons/default/dry.png

 

What do you think?

[TomokoKuroki 1,707]

Though it did have a different feel to me too, it gave quite a meaningful and strong message compared to some of the more "Light heartened" episodes. I thought the episode was amazing honestly. I loved the growth in Fluttershy through out the episode.

[Pinkazoid 3,493]

I didn't pay attention to those things at all xD

honestly, whenever I watch my little pony my brain is turned off, and whenever someone mentions things like that I'm all "lolwut?"

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

Though it did have a different feel to me too, it gave quite a meaningful and strong message compared to some of the more "Light heartened" episodes. I thought the episode was amazing honestly. I loved the growth in Fluttershy through out the episode.

 

I agree. The way the message was sent was a strong one. This has to be the best episode of season 2 by far.

[Emerald Flame 381]

There was definitely a change in the atmosphere. A greater amount of greed, more ponies being jerks, and more manipulation. In my opinion, it makes this episode more realistic than others, since it is kind of hard to relate to a utopia.

[FyreDash 3]

I didn't pay attention to those things at all xD

honestly, whenever I watch my little pony my brain is turned off, and whenever someone mentions things like that I'm all "lolwut?"

 

Agreed, i watch the show cause i Love it, not to analyze it.

[Prince Lightning Da Cute 616]

I personally loved this one, i'm grounded and i went to extreme lenghts to watch the stream and i must say it was worth it Very worth!

[Luurilka 325]

True.

 

I'm a little worried.

 

I hope Ponyville doesn't get any crueler.

[Arylett Charnoa 4,919]

I really don't understand where everyone gets this idea that Ponyville is a utopia.

 

I do not believe that Ponyville ever was a utopia or that everypony acts perfect or happy all of the time. Otherwise, the show would be absolutely unwatchable. As conflicts DO occur in Ponyville between the characters, and episodes center around conflicts (even if they seem relatively minor compared to real world conflicts), Ponyville is certainly not a utopia as it still has some issues.

 

Whilst I believe that the ponies did act a bit meaner than usual (especially Fluttershy's rant at Rarity and Pinkie Pie), I don't think it was really that out of place or out of character in the show. The ponies are like humans; they too have personality flaws. They get angry sometimes. They say things they don't mean. Etc. Like I said, without these things, we would be totally unable to relate and the show would be completely unwatchable.

[Pinkazoid 3,493]

Agree with Arylett, if it were an Utopia it would be the creepy G3.5 ponies, that didn't have Big adventures or tons of fun

 

it's funny cause it's the theme song /slow pinkazoid/

Edited May 11, 2012 by Berryzoid

[Twi Rubix 726]

Yeah, it was different compared the the other episodes. But I guess it was just for the sake of the episode, or they were desperate for sales.

But did anyone else notice most of the girls in this episode (Excluding Pinkie and Rarity) had those "Teenage girl" voices? Like Bon Bon and the other pony on the bridge?

[Champion RD92 8,655]

 

and Rarity... well, her other side really showed off too. Like when she manipulated that random guy into giving her the stack of asparagus.

 

 

Yeah, I noticed Rarity tends to manipulate people (like Spike). She knows guys find her attractive and she uses that in order to get what she wants. I personally think that's kind of messed up, but that's just my opinion. I have nothing against Rarity of course, it's just something I noticed.

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

True.

 

I'm a little worried.

 

I hope Ponyville doesn't get any crueler.

 

I'm also kind of worried about that, too. What actually disturbed me a little was the fact that Rarity manipulated someone to get her friend what she wanted. IMO, that gives the elements of harmony a slightly bad rep and puts forth a sense of abusive power among her other friends.

[Luurilka 325]

I'm also kind of worried about that, too. What actually disturbed me a little was the fact that Rarity manipulated someone to get her friend what she wanted. IMO, that gives the elements of harmony a slightly bad rep and puts forth a sense of abusive power among her other friends.

 

A see wut you mean.

But, considering that MLP has a large little kid audience, it probably won't get much darker.

[Ron Jeremy 2,032]

I agree, this episode felt darker. Fluttershy's rage-blasting towards Rarity and Pinkie Pie was downright brutal compared to how the rest of the show is. It also adds a sense of realism of sorts, since those are the kind of things a person is likely to say when they're pissed off.

 

Also interesting to see actual personality flaws (Rarity's manipulating to get her way, Pinkie Pie tricking) in some of the characters, that don't just stem from their positive traits, that are actual flaws people can relate to.

[windy_prance 114]

It definitely got dark for me once Flutterbitch (not rage...BITCH!) started insulting Rarity and Pinkie Pie like that. The scary thing is...we all did that to somebody at one point. That is a strong message to have in a kids show. BRAVO~!

Edited March 5, 2012 by windy_prance

[RagingTwilight 101]

It was darker, but I think the show has had previous moments at least as dark. For example, Pinky Pie going completely psycho in Party of One and Twilight going insane (HI GIRLS!) in Lesson Zero.. And I didn't find anything Flutterbitch said to be any more cruel than what she said in Return of Harmony Pt.2 while under Discord's influence, save for maybe when she made Rarity and Pinky Pie cry. Was the cruelty too much for a kids show? Maybe, but I've seen more cruel things in other classic cartoons. I for one am glad they're striving to make Equestria more relatable to the real world, and not simply making it a utopia. The show would be so boring. What would the show be without a little...chaos and discord in the mix?

 

As for the citizens specifically...most likely a plot device. They were simply written that way to advance the plot and nothing more. Now whether or not this is good writing is another debate entirely.

Edited March 5, 2012 by RagingTwilight

[Comet Tail 808]

I was just thinking that! It certainly was darker than usual, with lots of mean ponies, whereas before, like in "Secret of my excess", we saw that commoners were willing to give someone they barely knew a birthday present.

 

Some say they like it not being Utopia, I don't, not at all. One of the main reasons I like the show is how positive and adorable it and all the characters in it are. It was really heartwarming to see how nice everyone was to Spike in "Secret of My Excess", like how Cherilee gladly just gave him a brand new hat on the spot! I mean it was really heartwarming!

 

You don't have to have a bad world to make an interesting story, IMO. If that were the case, then grimdark stories would be the most fascinating, but personally I can't stand the negative atmosphere. All you need for a good story is some kind of struggle the characters have to overcome. And even in a Utopia society, there are interesting struggles to overcome, simply because a reality without them is impossible. Struggles, like a dragon has started sleeping in a nearby mountain, causing smoke to spread and blocking the sun

 

Anyways, if fiction is something you want to emulate in reality, why would you want dark fiction, when you could emulate something wonderful and bring some more light into the real world?

 

That's really one of the big things I love about MLP. It's so bright and wonderful, it's something we can emulate to build a better world. Be friendly, be kind, care about others more than your own feelings and you're almost to Utopia. If everyone did that, the real world would be Utopia. If you see a show where characters do that, it kinda gives you an idea of how it's done, and brings it that much closer to reality.

 

True.

 

I'm a little worried.

 

I hope Ponyville doesn't get any crueler.

 

+1.

 

I'm hoping this was a very abnormal episode. Look at "Mare do Well" for example. Huge events like a dam bursting, a wagon full of ponies going out of control towards a cliff, etc. etc. all kinds of disasters immediately became extremely common for that one episode.

I'm hoping, and I'm pretty sure, that's exactly the same deal with this episode, except instead of disasters it's mean ponies, because mean ponies = situation where assertiveness comes into play, and the episode was all about assertiveness.

 

Rest assured, I'm almost certain we'll see our Utopia-like heartwarming Ponyville again, the one where bystanders will give very nice birthday presents to a baby dragon they hardly know, rather than cut in line and get mouthy.

 

And even IRL, the jerks are just a vocal minority

 

Yeah, it was different compared the the other episodes. But I guess it was just for the sake of the episode, or they were desperate for sales.

But did anyone else notice most of the girls in this episode (Excluding Pinkie and Rarity) had those "Teenage girl" voices? Like Bon Bon and the other pony on the bridge?

 

I think those were the "mean girl" voices

 

It was darker, but I think the show has had previous moments at least as dark. For example, Pinky Pie going completely psycho in Party of One and Twilight going insane (HI GIRLS!) in Lesson Zero.. And I didn't find anything Flutterbitch said to be any more cruel than what she said in Return of Harmony Pt.2 while under Discord's influence, save for maybe when she made Rarity and Pinky Pie cry. Was the cruelty too much for a kids show? Maybe, but I've seen more cruel things in other classic cartoons. I for one am glad they're striving to make Equestria more relatable to the real world, and not simply making it a utopia. The show would be so boring. What would the show be without a little...chaos and discord in the mix?

 

As for the citizens specifically...most likely a plot device. They were simply written that way to advance the plot and nothing more. Now whether or not this is good writing is another debate entirely.

 

I still think this episode was the darkest yet, by far. For one thing, all the cruel background ponies. For another, nobody was discorded, yet they were steal mean. Fluttershy wasn't nearly as mean as discorded Flutterjerk, (Nowhere NEAR as mean. "Hey Twilight, what's soaking wet and clueless?" *Splash, BONK* "YOUR FACE! Hah. Hah." and more.) but she was also, you know, herself, and that was the disturbing thing. In S2E2, Twi could make them themselves again just by bringing their memory and selves back. But this time, the mean pony WAS herself!

 

Not as mean, (very defensive this time, rather than actively a bully), but it was still a lot darker because everyone was themselves.

 

...

I for one am glad they're striving to make Equestria more relatable to the real world, and not simply making it a utopia. The show would be so boring. What would the show be without a little...chaos and discord in the mix?

...

 

 

Really, bronies, why am I seeing so much "down with Utopia"? It's almost horrifying. I thought everybody here actually liked MLP:FiM. And one of the things that makes MLP:FiM itself, is the bright, optimistic, positive Utopia-like world. Boring? Unrelatable? Have all the ponies that said these things, found the entire series up to this point to be boring and unrelatable? If so, then why are you here?

 

I for one, don't think we should bend fiction to match darker reality. I think we should keep fiction Utopia-like, and strive to bend reality to match that. They're both things we control. Fiction is easier to control, but reality is much more meaningful. Use the positive attitudes and kind, selfless loving nature of the show as a role model for your interactions in the real world, not the negative attributes of the real world as a role model for fantasies! Darkness is never to be praised, ever, IMO. You don't need a dark, "realistic" world to make an interesting, relatable story; if you think you do, then why are you even here, because MLP:FiM has never been a dark, "realistic" world.

 

It's not a perfect world, and reality will never be a perfect world, either. But we're talking about Utopia, not heaven, we're talking about a near-perfect, role-model society. Even in Utopia, things go wrong. Twilight can't find a way to fit in on Winter-Wrap Up, the mane 6 force Rarity into making bad dresses, a dragon takes a centennial nap in a nearby mountain, a Gala isn't what they'd hoped for, Fluttershy bites off more than she can chew watching the CMC's, the ponies wrongly fear an outsider, etc. etc.

 

You can still have an interesting story and plenty of conflict in a positive, uplifting, role-model world. It's not boring or unrelatable. In fact it's a lot more relatable than "Putting Your Hoof Down" was. I put "realistic" in quotation marks, because a dark world full of jerks isn't realistic. Generally speaking, even humans are pretty decent, it's just sometimes we forget because of the indecent vocal minority of jerks, or we just focus on the negative. But most people leave tips at resturaunts, people drive 2-ton metal cars carrying the explosive power of three sticks of dynamite in gasoline and somehow manage not to kill eachother all the time, we don't wage unrestricted warfare anymore, and first world nations haven't fought eachother for almost half a century; that's entirely unheard of in human history, especially in the modern age. Using history as a precedent, the modern age has connected the world so much, we should be waging a world war every two decades at least, with millions of deaths and multiple entire cities burned to rubble each time. But that hasn't happened for half a century, now.

 

And my point is that we shouldn't let a pessimistic (not a "realistic") viewpoint taint our fantasies. This fictional world can actually be used as a role model for our everyday lives, and whether you know it or not, it actually does to some degree just by your watching it (That's psychology. You see it, you learn it.). Everything that happens in the world is imagined first, from cars to skyscrapers to your daily social interactions. What's in your mind is the blueprints for what reality becomes. We shouldn't, then, strive to fill our minds with negative viewpoints or pessimism, or else that's the world we'll build, intentionally or unintentionally.

 

Instead, the reason I love this show is the positive atmosphere and characters it has. The Utopia-like world is almost at the core of this, as is the very minorly flawed characters. There are countless stories of the positive atmosphere and cheerful characters bringing people out of depression, saving lives, and generally making the real world a better place. I can't believe anyone would attack that.

 

I for one, prefer the Utopia-like world, and think it's far more relatable and interesting than a dark world, and I like the happy cheerful characters, that love everyone and want to make you smile, and I find them highly relatable, even if all I can do is strive to overcome my negative feelings to be that way. And usually, there's a few precious hours each day I can.

 

But where do we go if we bring role models and heroes down to our level? And you can't think that the world and characters of MLP:FiM have been boring or unrelatable and need to be darker, or you wouldn't be here.

Edited March 5, 2012 by EASA - Dr. Braun

[Yellow Diamond 7,564]

It's unclear whether Ponyville, or Equestria on the whole, truly houses a slew of mean spirited and manipulative ponies, or if we were simply seeing things through the perspective of Fluttershy. While conflict exists in Equestria, there had been little indication that so many of the denizens of Ponyville were purely out for their own benefit. I place the onus more on the writer than I do the direction of the show as a whole. After all, wasn't the previous episode highlighting the joys of sharing a smile?

[RagingTwilight 101]

Epic wall of text

 

I suppose we just have different world views. Or, we don't have the same definition of Utopia. A Utopia is a perfect society, if I'm not mistaken, not "near perfect." We also most likely have differing views on what "dark" means. From your giant wall of text, your definition of "dark" resembles that of "realistic." Still, I don't see how people getting angry is pessimistic necessarily. The show can have a slightly darker edge and still convey meaningful messages of friendship, as this one did. Was the anger overdone? Yes, but in my opinion that's due to a weakness in the writer of the episode.

 

And your comment about "bringing our role models and heroes down to our level," are you implying that we are "dark," as in bad? The comment after that one is also perplexing. You have no idea why I like the show, nor why I'm here. I for one like seeing the ponies more expressive; they feel more alive and realistic to me.

 

To sum it up, If they have to get a little more realistic, then that's okay. Sorry if I come off a little harsh. I haven't much time to respond, so I've had to mince words.

 

I should add: Fluttershy was most certainly NOT herself whilst she was bullying people around. She basically let someone do her thinking for her (Iron Will,) allowing him to influence her. She was being told all these things and probably had no idea exactly what she was doing. Think of a child or young person being told to commit a heinous act by someone with an aggressive, forceful personality. I'd be almost certain that when said person commits the heinous act, he/she won't be doing it as himself/herself. It's as Rarity said. Fluttershy wanted to become more assertive, and "received some bad advice..."

Edited March 5, 2012 by RagingTwilight

[Thewookie Wooker 64]

Personally I like the pseudo-utopian look rather than a utopian society. Utopia is impossible and would literally require all the ponies to be flat out boring. I would never want them to go as dark as our world, but the idea that all the ponies arn't kind/charitable gives more realism to the Equestrian people. Furthermore it makes the Mane 6's friendships seem more genuine rather than "automatic" Also a more realistic problem can give people/children an easier time relating it to their own lives.

 

Rarity's manipulation of the nerd pony gives her further character depth, she generous, but not a saint.

 

Pinkie's trickery was based obviously off Bugs Bunny's. This also shows she does have a brain up there since you can't manipulate through trickery if you're as bright as Rocky.

 

Lastly we seefurther proof that Fluttershy can be more than just a timid pony/doormat. But has a tendency to take ideas to their extreme at first, but that's common.

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

It was darker, but I think the show has had previous moments at least as dark. For example, Pinky Pie going completely psycho in Party of One and Twilight going insane (HI GIRLS!) in Lesson Zero.. And I didn't find anything Flutterbitch said to be any more cruel than what she said in Return of Harmony Pt.2 while under Discord's influence, save for maybe when she made Rarity and Pinky Pie cry. Was the cruelty too much for a kids show? Maybe, but I've seen more cruel things in other classic cartoons. I for one am glad they're striving to make Equestria more relatable to the real world, and not simply making it a utopia. The show would be so boring. What would the show be without a little...chaos and discord in the mix?

 

As for the citizens specifically...most likely a plot device. They were simply written that way to advance the plot and nothing more. Now whether or not this is good writing is another debate entirely.

 

You'd think that the previous episode would make everybody a bit more... nicer. Seriously, if Smile Smile Smile has no effect one episode later, Pinkie Pie's talent might actually be frivolous after all.

[Queen Cassie 3,057]

In terms of the question of the thread, whether or not the episode was darker in tone and atmosphere...I would have to say that it wasn't. As others have pointed out, this is not the first time the show has tackled serious emotional subjects. Twice before, in Party of One and Lesson Zero, the episodes have forced us to see everything through the perspective of the character of the episode and watch them break down psychologically, as well as interpret the behavior of others through their eyes. Unlike Lesson Zero and Party of One, however, Putting Your Hoof Down did not handle the concept anywhere near as well. Most of the dark tone of the episode came more from us seeing through Fluttershy's eyes and hearing her genuine anger and frustration than anything being truly different about the way Ponyville or Equestria as a society act.

 

 

As to the utopia debate, I feel like we're each using the term utopia in a different way, and a lot of the argument is coming as a result of that. In particular, the term utopia tends to be a bit overused, much like how people will refer various mental disorders such as OCD when talking about flippant behaviors of theirs.

 

Does Equestria represent a utopia? It depends upon how you define utopia. The show has given us a world that appears to be at peace, where war does not exist and most conflict is personal, a result of clashing personalities. Everypony appears to be cared for, in terms of medical care, food, shelter...we have seen no sign of homeless ponies or ponies turned away from the hospital because they lacked insurance. We've seen hardly a hint of crime, no drug or alcohol abuse, absolutely no sign of gang violence or any number of other sorts of things that plague our society. We don't hear about racism, sexism, homophobia, or other forms of intolerance, apart from a few vague insults tossed towards mules. Everything appears friendly, wonderful, and joyous.

 

But we don't know how much of this is the result of the G-rated nature of the show causing it to hide a lot of the seedier topics behind a veneer, and how much of it is actually true of the real Equestria, so to speak. Frankly, though, I'm inclined to take things at face value and only interject a few other themes in my headcanon of how Equestria works that are logical extensions of the friendly and accepting nature of Equestrian society. I would definitely consider Equestria to be a utopia, at least compared to our own society.

 

It's not perfect, however, nor should it be. As Arylett points out, if everyone got along all the time, with no conflict whatsoever, the show would be boring, dull, dreary. I cite as an example the first two seasons of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Gene Roddenberry wanted the show to be completely without conflict between the main characters, because he believed that humans would be "evolved beyond that." It resulted in the first two seasons being some of the most painful television to watch, with only a few good episodes amongst them. S

 

So, for instance, I would like to see more episodes with the concept behind Party of One, Lesson Zero, and Putting Your Hoof Down. I want to see things from the character's eyes, see how they view their life, see their anger, their tragedy, as well as their joy and happiness. I enjoy these kinds of psychological episodes because they're deep, they're interesting, and they can really show off a lot of what makes this show so good: the complexities of the characters.

[RagingTwilight 101]

You'd think that the previous episode would make everybody a bit more... nicer. Seriously, if Smile Smile Smile has no effect one episode later, Pinkie Pie's talent might actually be frivolous after all.

 

Well, it's nearly impossible to maintain a constant state of happiness forever. The happiness eventually wears off given certain circumstances (bad day at work, death, break-ups, etc.) But hey, I love Pinky Pie's ability to make people laugh. I think the world of Equestria (and the real world) could always use more laughter. So no, Pinky's talent of making people laugh is a highly respectable one. If I were a pony and needed cheering up, I'd know who to go to.

[Akemi Homura 7,680]

Well, it's nearly impossible to maintain a constant state of happiness forever. The happiness eventually wears off given certain circumstances (bad day at work, death, break-ups, etc.) But hey, I love Pinky Pie's ability to make people laugh. I think the world of Equestria (and the real world) could always use more laughter. So no, Pinky's talent of making people laugh is a highly respectable one. If I were a pony and needed cheering up, I'd know who to go to.

 

I suppose you're right, though Smile Smile Smile should have had at least a rather large lasting effect on people...

 

Say, maybe the elements can hone their skills and by honing them, they can "harmonize" more effectively.