Am I the only brony on here who thinks Chrysalis should not be redeemed?

[Flutter's lover <3 8,205]

Chrissi is that classic "Fuck you all, I'll do anything that I want" villain. She doesn't care for anypony's well being but her own. She's the epitome of evil in the show.

 

This is also why I love her as my fave villain. She's just a badass character.  So, I think they should bring her back,but keep her her evil destructive self. Perhaps as a repeat villain every so often.

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

She was crying while she transformed and dark magic was flying everywhere, something went wrong when that happened. No, I mean I'd be crying to kiss ass so Twilight doesn't lock me away 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

Okay fine, you could blab on about so call character..when the show showed little to none about her. But really Show wise, it won't happen. She not coming back she not blasting off again.

 

Okay fine replace HItler with say Egg head from sonic HAPPY

I dont know egg head but as stated above yet another improper comparison.

 

All the more reason to bring her and the changelings back. Imagine learning what makes them tick! That would be interesting.

 

And btw if we know nothing about her why do you even make the comparisons?

@,

She was crying while she transformed and dark magic was flying everywhere, something went wrong when that happened. No, I mean I'd be crying to kiss ass so Twilight doesn't lock me away

"Do you know what happens when an element of harmony gets into another world? Oh you don't?" she knew full well what would happen and she had time to study about it. Don't try to purify her as i don't try to do the same with Chrysalis. That her transformation hurt was just it being unexpected. Also i would like for her to be locked for some time before being let out as i would promote the same for QC. I would also promote making ammends for both.

[Hive King 2,001]

 

 

"Do you know what happens when an element of harmony gets into another world? Oh you don't?" she knew full well what would happen and she had time to study about it. Don't try to purify her as i don't try to do the same with Chrysalis. That her transformation hurt was just it being unexpected. Also i would like for her to be locked for some time before being let out as i would promote the same for QC. I would also promote making ammends for both.

 

I don't purify Sunset, I'm pointing out her very minor good traits. Chrysalis has good traits too, sneakiness, a willingness to do what she wants, and ambition. SS's are mild honor and not being as evil as other villains. 

 

The difference is that after Chrysalis was defeated, she was still ripping the heads off of cats and what not. Sunset was bawling her eyes out. Now, it's very likely Sunset is just trying to save herself from being locked away, but you get the point. Sunset is probably not redeemed, I just saw it was a Dr. Wily sort of thing

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

Chrissi is that classic "Fuck you all, I'll do anything that I want" villain. She doesn't care for anypony's well being but her own. She's the epitome of evil in the show.

 

This is also why I love her as my fave villain. She's just a badass character. So, I think they should bring her back,but keep her her evil destructive self. Perhaps as a repeat villain every so often.

The "but her own" part is the only thing i consider questionable. Frankly we all do the same thing at a point. Its like the "Blood is thicker than water" phrase.

 

Yes but would that serve any purpose? They don't have to do so right? It isn't nesseccary.

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

Not all of us get power hungry and go shoot up on steroids so we can conquer foreign nations 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

@,

Not all of us get power hungry and go shoot up on steroids so we can conquer foreign nations 

What the hell does that have to do with anything? But yea if you noticed same thing pretty much happened with SS. 

 

The difference is that after Chrysalis was defeated, she was still ripping the heads off of cats and what not. Sunset was bawling her eyes out. Now, it's very likely Sunset is just trying to save herself from being locked away, but you get the point. Sunset is probably not redeemed, I just saw it was a Dr. Wily sort of thing

I don't know who the hell Dr Willy is but let me just say something. Sunset Shimmer had the good influence of Celestia in her so she had the potential of at least being good. What did Chrysalis have? That's what i want to know...

 

Plus i really like that Chrysalis was at least genuine to herself and pursued revenge. Sunset Shimmer pretty much did the same thing on Celestia by targeting Twilight. In the end no moral was learned in EQG. Imagine how good of a moral it would be if either of them was forced to see how futile the circle of revenge is... if for example Chrysalis was forced to see how her own actions and decisions hurt her own changelings. If she was stripped of her power because of that... she has the potential.

 

Also... she didn't kill all of them she imprisoned most in Cocoons and only killed one to get her point across at the extremely annoying CMC. She did it to be perceived seriously... and frankly i deem the cats existence plot convenience. Not because they were there in the right time to feed them. But because... they were cats.

 

They were deliberately there to show her "evil side". We all know how much we all love cats... and toxoplasmosis enhances our liking of them. I have seen people acting like justice warriors on people killing stray cats. I mean... okay that's "mean" but i hardly think of it as evil. Certainly not evil enough to go posting links on facebook asking the fans to give the proper sentence to the person who did it. You're scratching the surface of that by accusing Chrysalis of being evil for killing that one cat none give a damn about.

 

Oh plus fans have agreed on the fact that this was an over-reaction by Hasbro to show the fans how "evil" she was without this proving actually anything but the fact that the world has sympathy on cats. The end.

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

So if I rip a cat's head off, just for a demo, I'm mean but I'm not evil? Cool, let me go rip an animal's head off because I was annoyed . When you start killing off random things next to you for being annoying, you're evil. 

 

Crying "plot convenience" is a terrible argument because like it or not, it happened. Too bad, so sad that it interferes with your vision. If you didn't like the story, more power to you. However, don't dismiss the story in a debate because you dislike it.

 

The problem with Chrysalis is that her arrogance renders her unable to stop. Even after getting sent flying and being defeated so harshly that her army was reduced to a small squad, she still keeps trying to take over.

 

BTW, Dr. Wily is a Megaman villain who begs for his life at the end of every game so he can live to fight another day

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

@,You fail to understand my point. What i wish to understand is the reason for why a villain that kills a cat is considered evil-er than a villain that renders the whole Ponyville into Chaos-ville. 

Why does someone go into justice-warrior mode when a cat is killed but seriously doesn't give a damn about what Luna... or NMM did by turning Equestria into eternal night. Despite her being controlled by "evil forces" those evil forces were willingly called upon by her own jealousy and selfishness. But i digress...

The thing is that every villain who fails once doesn't have to become good just because he/she failed. In fact what she did shows determination and a willingness to achieve her goal no matter what the cost. I think that's what could make her see her own fault. What if that cost was something she cared about? We will never know since we know next to nothing about her. 

Regardless what i want to say it is possible... and it can be made right. She doesn't have to feel regret to be sorry. 

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

Oh, I thought Discord's reformation was stupid as it is still motivated by selfishness. He's only "good" because he likes Fluttershy, that's the only thing keeping him on a loose leash.

 

You make a great point 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

 

 

You make a great point 

About which one of them all really? Anyways... i guess some bronies experience saturation with the story of redemption. Personally i would prefer if her redemption was done over the course of a long time. Like for example she could experience progress in a two parter and finalize it in another episode. 

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

I was referring to the fact that in the show, it is possible, hell, maybe even likely she'll get redeemed. I don't want this happening but considering that they reformed Discord, it's not that far out there 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

@,

I was referring to the fact that in the show, it is possible, hell, maybe even likely she'll get redeemed. I don't want this happening but considering that they reformed Discord, it's not that far out there

Thats the problem the OP has and that's the main reason i am opposing it. If it is done nicely and in an interesting, wholehearted way... if it was successful then whats the reason to hate it or not want it? Edited March 23, 2014 by nioniosbbbb

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

I think Chrysalis is iredeemable, HOWEVER, I know that given the show's track record, if she does return, she'll get the "good guy" tag slapped on her in seconds. This is why I'd like the show to come up with new villains, so they don't get neutered after each awesome moment 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

@,

I think Chrysalis is iredeemable, HOWEVER, I know that given the show's track record, if she does return, she'll get the "good guy" tag slapped on her in seconds. This is why I'd like the show to come up with new villains, so they don't get neutered after each awesome moment

If you see my posts above you will understand i consider it a mistake to be done this way.

 

My problem is that the preferences of some bronies for villains to stay villains are being turned into arguements simply because they find it cliche from their experiences. They are being un-subjective.

 

Plus we dont know enough to determine her irredeemable. Once again i will say this... There is none saying that the comics are indeed canon. For one they are truly a different style in concept both in story and style. The comics aren't about learning any morals like the show... And truth be told an adventure like the comics of QC would be unlikely to be aired on TV.

 

Tbh... I would trade Sunset Shimmer's and Discord's redemption over Chrysalis anyday but thats just me.

 

The point is so much drama has been created over redeemed villains that some bronies even in this thread are acting like immature babies. Like the guy who said she's lile Hitler. That's darn right ridiculous... And since the op agrees on such a ridiculous claim i fail to see any legitimate claim for us to just shut the door for her.

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

I agree with you. I'd rather see Sunset Shimmer return, trying to gain power legitimately this time, but keep her antagonisitc nature. It'd be nice to give Twilight a rival. Trixie doesn't count because she's weak as Hell and needs to cheat to keep up with Twilight.

 

Queen Chrysalis's a weird situation. I don't think she will get redeemed and for her to get redeemed, it will probably come off as contrived like with Discord  

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

@,

I agree with you. I'd rather see Sunset Shimmer return, trying to gain power legitimately this time, but keep her antagonisitc nature. It'd be nice to give Twilight a rival. Trixie doesn't count because she's weak as Hell and needs to cheat to keep up with Twilight.

 

Queen Chrysalis's a weird situation. I don't think she will get redeemed and for her to get redeemed, it will probably come off as contrived like with Discord

Depends as i said above on how much effort you put in it.

[Hive King 2,001]

@,

The show will not put in effort and you know it 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

@,

The show will not put in effort and you know it

Thats sad actually. But it remains to be seen. They have been known for creating high quality episodes. Edited March 23, 2014 by nioniosbbbb

[Wardaddy 470]

If you see my posts above you will understand i consider it a mistake to be done this way.

 

My problem is that the preferences of some bronies for villains to stay villains are being turned into arguements simply because they find it cliche from their experiences. They are being un-subjective.

 

Plus we dont know enough to determine her irredeemable. Once again i will say this... There is none saying that the comics are indeed canon. For one they are truly a different style in concept both in story and style. The comics aren't about learning any morals like the show... And truth be told an adventure like the comics of QC would be unlikely to be aired on TV.

 

Tbh... I would trade Sunset Shimmer's and Discord's redemption over Chrysalis anyday but thats just me.

 

The point is so much drama has been created over redeemed villains that some bronies even in this thread are acting like immature babies. Like the guy who said she's lile Hitler. That's darn right ridiculous... And since the op agrees on such a ridiculous claim i fail to see any legitimate claim for us to just shut the door for her.

Ok, lets get something straight here. Firstly, if Chrysalis's redemption was done right, then I'd be OK with it. It's just my opinion that Chrysalis should stay bad. Secondly, I never agreed that Chrysalis was like Hitler. There is no comparison between the two at all. Hitler murdered millions of lives, Chrysalis murdered nopony. The point I'm making here is that Chrysalis and her Changelings exist only to harvest love and wreak havoc. In hindsight, perhaps I have been ignoring the whole point of the show by asking for her demise, but from what I've seen personality-wise, this is one villain who has gone well beyond the reach of help. And to be frank, her actions in the show and comics don't exactly save face either.

 

Chrysalis can be redeemed if that is her fate, I just don't think it should happen. She was the kind of evil I like: sadistic, cruel, deceptive and ruthless. That is something I'd hate to see taken away from her.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

Ok, lets get something straight here. Firstly, if Chrysalis's redemption was done right, then I'd be OK with it. It's just my opinion that Chrysalis should stay bad. Secondly, I never agreed that Chrysalis was like Hitler. There is no comparison between the two at all. Hitler murdered millions of lives, Chrysalis murdered nopony. The point I'm making here is that Chrysalis and her Changelings exist only to harvest love and wreak havoc. In hindsight, perhaps I have been ignoring the whole point of the show by asking for her demise, but from what I've seen personality-wise, this is one villain who has gone well beyond the reach of help. And to be frank, her actions in the show and comics don't exactly save face either.

 

Chrysalis can be redeemed if that is her fate, I just don't think it should happen. She was the kind of evil I like: sadistic, cruel, deceptive and ruthless. That is something I'd hate to see taken away from her.

Deceptive ruthless... Those can stay. Cruel can borderline stay so long as its bridled and channeled in the right situations. For example Fluttershy showed that sometimes you have to be harsh. As for being sadistic... Well i see no problem with it. We all are a bit sadistic when we win or brag over the defeated. "Vae Victus" don't they say? Woe to the losers for the victor decides their fate. She simply might be happy her confidence in her skills was proven right. I will say it again... She should have won... But the even more cliche triumph of good vs evil stopped her... By having her simply look away... Its ridiculous and you know it.

 

Here is my compromise with you. She doesn't have to like the ponies or be sorry... But there can be some sort of peace between them out of mutual interest. The ponies want peace for example and she want love to feed "It is up to me to find food for my subjects". Side note... This shows that she does value her changelings somehow and that she cares about them and that she isn't tyranical over them. And maybe she has some honor with her own people. Continuing she could be offered to repair the material damage she did... War compensation and such. That could make her more likeable in the process.

 

It could make for an interesting friendship lesson to have Twilight say "Sometimes you try to change others, but this isn't entirely up to you. No matter how hard you try you can't force change. It is up to the one that you seek to help for him/her to accept it..." There could be there at the end of the episode be a slight glimmer of hope... That sometime in the far distant future Queen Chrysalis could see a different way of living.

 

Example... In the popular game recently enhanced... Baldur's Gate 2 Viconia as a romance can have a similar change. From Neutral Evil to True Neutral. Viconia was raised by drow... The most notorious and bloodthirsty race upon the Forgotten Realms. Love changed her... A child changed her even more. Imagine if we saw a King Changeling... Someone responsible for her change. That would be so awesome.

 

As i might have said above somewhere it was mentioned that the holes are simply there to show that they are incomplete. Makes me wonder... What is their "complete" form? Could they have been ponies? It fascinates me and interests me greatly. It could be a curse or disease related to love... I am intrigued... aren't you?

 

I will say one last thing none bore in mind. The comics and the show are done with a different mindset. While their writers don't enforce them as canon and say "They are only if you want them to be." the things shown in the comics could NEVER be shown in TV.

Edited March 23, 2014 by nioniosbbbb

[Pat.Rio.T. 305]

I agree that Chrysi should not be redeemed. I would REALLY Love to see her again, but definitely as a villain. 

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

I agree that Chrysi should not be redeemed. I would REALLY Love to see her again, but definitely as a villain.

What if she became an antagonist instead?

[Wardaddy 470]

Deceptive ruthless... Those can stay. Cruel can borderline stay so long as its bridled and channeled in the right situations. For example Fluttershy showed that sometimes you have to be harsh. As for being sadistic... Well i see no problem with it. We all are a bit sadistic when we win or brag over the defeated. "Vae Victus" don't they say? Woe to the losers for the victor decides their fate. She simply might be happy her confidence in her skills was proven right. I will say it again... She should have won... But the even more cliche triumph of good vs evil stopped her... By having her simply look away... Its ridiculous and you know it.

 

Here is my compromise with you. She doesn't have to like the ponies or be sorry... But there can be some sort of peace between them out of mutual interest. The ponies want peace for example and she want love to feed "It is up to me to find food for my subjects". Side note... This shows that she does value her changelings somehow and that she cares about them and that she isn't tyranical over them. And maybe she has some honor with her own people. Continuing she could be offered to repair the material damage she did... War compensation and such. That could make her more likeable in the process.

 

It could make for an interesting friendship lesson to have Twilight say "Sometimes you try to change others, but this isn't entirely up to you. No matter how hard you try you can't force change. It is up to the one that you seek to help for him/her to accept it..." There could be there at the end of the episode be a slight glimmer of hope... That sometime in the far distant future Queen Chrysalis could see a different way of living.

 

Example... In the popular game recently enhanced... Baldur's Gate 2 Viconia as a romance can have a similar change. From Neutral Evil to True Neutral. Viconia was raised by drow... The most notorious and bloodthirsty race upon the Forgotten Realms. Love changed her... A child changed her even more. Imagine if we saw a King Changeling... Someone responsible for her change. That would be so awesome.

 

As i might have said above somewhere it was mentioned that the holes are simply there to show that they are incomplete. Makes me wonder... What is their "complete" form? Could they have been ponies? It fascinates me and interests me greatly. It could be a curse or disease related to love... I am intrigued... aren't you?

 

I will say one last thing none bore in mind. The comics and the show are done with a different mindset. While their writers don't enforce them as canon and say "They are only if you want them to be." the things shown in the comics could NEVER be shown in TV.

That's actually not a bad idea. The problem I have though is differentiating whether the Changelings need love for their survival as a species, or whether they want it for extra strength and power to take over the world with. Also, it looks to me that Chrysalis knows no shame or honour. And what if she really doesn't care for her Changelings? What if they are just pawns to her? I've seen this in some villains. They need them to make up their numbers and they promise them wealth or something in exchange. But in reality, the boss villain cares little for his pawns and leaves them to die. It could be the same case with Chrysalis, but I'm willing to give it a chance.

 

Now, as for the holes, I suppose it would be interesting to see their complete form, which is where I got an idea. Remember Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl? Barbossa and his crew came across Cortes chest of cursed gold. After trading and spending it, Barbossa and his crew became cursed, remaining so until the final piece was found, and the bearer of that piece had his blood spilt upon the gold.

 

In the Changeling's case, perhaps Chrysalis and her Changelings were once ponies themselves, until they got their first taste of love (somehow). Feeling incomplete, the pre-Changelings developed a craving for more, raiding the local villages in order to satisfy their taste, to the point where the love they harvested turned rancid and sour, taking the Changelings with them. With time, Chrysalis and her subjects turned evil, roguish and wanton, leading the Queen to take on the name "Chrysalis" in order to better suit her new look. Her ponies were also renamed "Changelings" after they found out that the love they harvested gave them the ability to shapeshift into their old pony forms, giving birth to their despicably effective weapon. And their objective? Suck Equestria dry of all its love. They wanted more, and they were prepared to do anything to get it.

 

That's my headcanon on Changelings. Unless you've got a better idea, that's what I based my understanding of Changelings on. Parasites that live only to harvest, wreak havoc, and conquer.

[IridscentNionios 1,420]

That's actually not a bad idea. The problem I have though is differentiating whether the Changelings need love for their survival as a species, or whether they want it for extra strength and power to take over the world with. Also, it looks to me that Chrysalis knows no shame or honour. And what if she really doesn't care for her Changelings? What if they are just pawns to her? I've seen this in some villains. They need them to make up their numbers and they promise them wealth or something in exchange. But in reality, the boss villain cares little for his pawns and leaves them to die. It could be the same case with Chrysalis, but I'm willing to give it a chance.

 

Now, as for the holes, I suppose it would be interesting to see their complete form, which is where I got an idea. Remember Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl? Barbossa and his crew came across Cortes chest of cursed gold. After trading and spending it, Barbossa and his crew became cursed, remaining so until the final piece was found, and the bearer of that piece had his blood spilt upon the gold.

 

In the Changeling's case, perhaps Chrysalis and her Changelings were once ponies themselves, until they got their first taste of love (somehow). Feeling incomplete, the pre-Changelings developed a craving for more, raiding the local villages in order to satisfy their taste, to the point where the love they harvested turned rancid and sour, taking the Changelings with them. With time, Chrysalis and her subjects turned evil, roguish and wanton, leading the Queen to take on the name "Chrysalis" in order to better suit her new look. Her ponies were also renamed "Changelings" after they found out that the love they harvested gave them the ability to shapeshift into their old pony forms, giving birth to their despicably effective weapon. And their objective? Suck Equestria dry of all its love. They wanted more, and they were prepared to do anything to get it.

 

That's my headcanon on Changelings. Unless you've got a better idea, that's what I based my understanding of Changelings on. Parasites that live only to harvest, wreak havoc, and conquer.

Are you sure you want me to delve on my headcanon about her? I have a lot... But i can crop it to stuff thats only relevant. I need to mention this right now that its going to have demons in it somehow... Like what Tirek was but not nesseccarily him.