Jan animations shut down by hasbro/C&D

[Celestial Wish 349]

What I DON'T understand is... why remove something that was bringing in more support (cash) if all you think about is money?

 

This is the shade of grey I was talking about earlier... You can exact your rights of copyright infringement and shoot yourself in the foot because you just went and pissed off thousands of fans.

 

I remember watching a video of the writers of FiM and remember them stating that the fan-dom need to take some responsibility because of their fan-made ideas for the appearances of the characters in EG. 

 

In this case, Hasbro needs to take some responsibility and not kill off the people who are supporting them.

BUT ON THE BRIGHT SIDE!

 

Thanks to all of our angry hoof stomping emails to Hasbro's face... there seems to be some sort of investigation going on!

 

http://www.equestriadaily.com/2014/03/mike-vogel-looking-into-concerns-about.html

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,854]

What I DON'T understand is... why remove something that was bringing in more support (cash) if all you think about is money?

 

This is the shade of grey I was talking about earlier... You can exact your rights of copyright infringement and shoot yourself in the foot because you just went and pissed off thousands of fans.

 

I remember watching a video of the writers of FiM and remember them stating that the fan-dom need to take some responsibility because of their fan-made ideas for the appearances of the characters in EG. 

 

In this case, Hasbro needs to take some responsibility and not kill off the people who are supporting them.

I'm also fed up with our fandom thinking that FIM is exclusively for us. I've got news for everypony, it's not. We are in the minority. In fact we're quite a small minority. It's just we shout the loudest.

[Adachi 772]

Yes, we should go with china's system of regulation. Let's censor dissenting opinions and squash creativity by eliminating all incentive for innovation by allowing everyone else to rip off what you develop. 

I'm not saying censor dissenting opinions, but I mean, it's pretty obvious that most people, dispite popular belief, are loyal to originals. If someone made their own version of MLP, of course people would watch it, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't continue to watch the real MLP. That's like saying that people would stop watching MLP because of all the fan videos. Hasbro would still obviously make money, since they hired a good studio that puts out quality product this time. And even if Hasbro made less money from the show, it would still serve it's purpose of advertising the toy line. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I just honestly don't see how anyone would lose, unless a company put out a bad show and somehow someone decided to make their own version of that show that others would want to watch. Even then, it would motivate the company behind the original show to make it even better to beat the competition.

 

Life would be a bit harder for producers for sure, but the fans would win in the end when we get better shows on tv, better video games, etc and the original companies would either innovate or realize that their show isn't worth fans spending money on in the first place.

 

I know WHY there are patents, but copyright law can be pretty idiotic sometimes anyway.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Ryudo

[Celestial Wish 349]

 

It's exclusive for every one... Where do you get all these invisible words in my posts? First at one point you exclaimed something about streaming and downloading when I had mentioned youtube and now you're speaking a in text that I made fiM all about us, when I didn't. 

 

Also...

 

In a word,tough. No matter what most people on here think, FIM is a show for little girls.

 

who said the show was for little girls again?

[Shenron00 366]

Well, the reason Button Mash had to stop was because the design had already appeared in the "Hearts and Hooves Day" episode, so Hasbro already owned the design for BM (lol BM). Ponies like Snowdrop didn't have their designs made by Hasbro, so it'd be legal to use them in a video/art as long as it's either yours, the original creator let you use it, or if the creator just doesn't give a shit.

[Adachi 772]

But I doubt that they are exactly they are exactly the same. Different themes? Different graphics? Different ideas, even if they all look the same?

Almost every chinese mmo starts with the player talking to some kind of angel. Almost every chinese mmo gives the player a mount early on, has similar looking enemies, same auto questing system, very similar theme (almost always about stopping some evil god from destroying the land or something) and has the same pay to spin a wheel to win prizes mechanic. You'd probably have to try a few out to get what I mean. There's a lot of them on Facebook.

[USMCav8r 105]

Aw... I liked those videos! I hope someone saved them and can reupload them! 

https://mega.co.nz/#F!fwgiwRgQ!fsbKm74yzGTfP5zT2VuTxw

 

Here is a link so that you can download.

 

Is there a link to download other videos like Snowdrop?

[FractalMoon 378]

I'm not saying censor dissenting opinions, but I mean, it's pretty obvious that most people, dispite popular belief, are loyal to originals. If someone made their own version of MLP, of course people would watch it, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't continue to watch the real MLP. That's like saying that people would stop watching MLP because of all the fan videos. Hasbro would still obviously make money, since they hired a good studio that puts out quality product this time. And even if Hasbro made less money from the show, it would still serve it's purpose of advertising the show. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I just honestly don't see how anyone would lose, unless a company put out a bad show and somehow someone decided to make their own version of that show that others would want to watch. Even then, it would motivate the company behind the original show to make it even better to beat the competition.

 

Life would be a bit harder for producers for sure, but the fans would win in the end when we get better shows on tv, better video games, etc and the original companies would either innovate or realize that their show isn't worth fans spending money on in the first place.

 

I know WHY there are patents, but copyright law can be pretty idiotic sometimes anyway.

It's not a matter of 'people would be loyal to the original', that will always happen, it's a matter of the fact that anyone can take the IP you spend millions (or more) to develop, then rip it off for way less than that and sell to the network for a much smaller cut of the royalties on a smaller operating budget. This will lead to the network picking up the cheaper program, and you going out of business.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

Almost every chinese mmo starts with the player talking to some kind of angel. Almost every chinese mmo gives the player a mount early on, has similar looking enemies, same auto questing system, very similar theme (almost always about stopping some evil god from destroying the land or something) and has the same pay to spin a wheel to win prizes mechanic. You'd probably have to try a few out to get what I mean. There's a lot of them on Facebook.

I guess I would have to try. Because by the way you make it sound, even if they are similar, they are still different. Like using different wallpapers on identical computers. I Don't like WOW. But I would like it if it had ponies in it, even if it had similar mechanics and all. It's about themes. The only "village builder" I play is the MLP one, even when I don't like it's similar.

[Adachi 772]

It's not a matter of 'people would be loyal to the original', that will always happen, it's a matter of the fact that anyone can take the IP you spend millions (or more) to develop, then rip it off for way less than that and sell to the network for a much smaller cut of the royalties on a smaller operating budget. This will lead to the network picking up the cheaper program, and you going out of business.

Think about this. If a network is already making tons of money off a successful program (it wouldn't be successful if it wasn't making people tons of money), do you honestly think a network would suddenly drop one of their biggest money makers to take a chance on an imitation made by nobodies? Of course, there's the potential of an imitation becoming better than the original, but one doesn't have to imitate to get their show picked over even a successful well established show anyways. Just look at what happened to most of the Cartoon Cartoons on Cartoon Network. All well established successful shows, yet they ended up getting replaced with tripe like *barf* Hole in the Wall, Destroy Build Destroy, etc.

 

The only thing that would happen when removing copyright is that companies would be forced to innovate a bit more. I seriously doubt any of the big players like MLP, Spongebob, etc would be in any danger of getting replaced, because their brand has taken on a life of their own (especially Spongebob). As for companies just starting out with cartoons, things might be a bit harder for them. But if they're not ready to improve their show, then it really has no business being on TV anyways. And I honestly don't think that most studios would just copy other studios ideas.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Ryudo

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

You know, I've had enough of people defending Jan animations. They knowingly used a character from Hasbro without permission or paying royalties. In fact I think Hasbro should go further and sue the pants off them!

Bait/10. I mean, you were playing a pretty decent devils advocate before, but you gotta be more subtle with your baiting man.

[FractalMoon 378]

Think about this. If a network is already making tons of money off a successful program (it wouldn't be successful if it wasn't making people tons of money), do you honestly think a network would suddenly drop one of their biggest money makers to take a chance on an imitation made by nobodies? Of course, there's the potential of an imitation becoming better than the original, but one doesn't have to imitate to get their show picked over even a successful well established show anyways. Just look at what happened to most of the Cartoon Cartoons on Cartoon Network. All well established successful shows, yet they ended up getting replaced with tripe like *barf* Hole in the Wall, Destroy Build Destroy, etc.

 

The only thing that would happen when removing copyright is that companies would be forced to innovate a bit more. I seriously doubt any of the big players like MLP, Spongebob, etc would be in any danger of getting replaced, because their brand has taken on a life of their own (especially Spongebob). As for companies just starting out with cartoons, things might be a bit harder for them. But if they're not ready to improve their show, then it really has no business being on TV anyways. And I honestly don't think that most studios would just copy other studios ideas.

It won't be (much of) a problem with cartoons and potentially other TV shows, but everywhere else it's going to basically blow up. It doesn't matter how much money you spend on your new game engine or software UI, someone can rip it from your code base and post it for a twelfth of the price. As much as I detest copyright, it has its place. 

[Rarity Paige Belle 1,854]

Bait/10. I mean, you were playing a pretty decent devils advocate before, but you gotta be more subtle with your baiting man.

I'm not baiting, this is what I believe. But then again I did study a year of law, so maybe my views are biased.

[Midnight Seeker 302]

Well, for anyone interested, there is a Facebook group that has popped up called Strike Against Hasbro (https://www.facebook.com/strikeagainsthasbro) which is inviting folk criticizing Hasbro actions on their page (myself included, I sarcastically thanked them and promised never to give them money again).

Copyright laws are insane and strictly used unethically by the rich, often to protect their version of someone else's work (consider a lot of Disney stuff).

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

I'm not baiting, this is what I believe. But then again I did study a year of law, so maybe my views are biased.

>studied one year of law

>intentionally goes overboard with "fuck it, sue Jan and ban anything hasbro doesn't make me pay for"

>notbait

>I shiggy diggy do

[FractalMoon 378]

Well, for anyone interested, there is a Facebook group that has popped up called Strike Against Hasbro (https://www.facebook.com/strikeagainsthasbro) which is inviting folk criticizing Hasbro actions on their page (myself included, I sarcastically thanked them and promised never to give them money again).

 

Copyright laws are insane and strictly used unethically by the rich, often to protect their version of someone else's work (consider a lot of Disney stuff).

WELL... If you're going to bring disney into this, technically the things they work with are in the public domain, and as such can be used perfectly legally. However, as disney is creating an original IP BASED on the previous work, it's just different enough to be defensible.

[Celestial Wish 349]

I'm not baiting, this is what I believe. But then again I did study a year of law, so maybe my views are biased.

 

 

 

Now he admits it... Wow, that took almost 12 hours.

[Singe 2,111]

Generally Hasbro is going after those that rise in popularity and make a name for themselves using the FIM property. Once someone gets too big, Hasbro is going to shut them down.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Singe

[Celestial Wish 349]

Generally Hasbro is going after those that rise in popularity and make a name for themselves using the FIM property. Once someone gets too big, Hasbro has to shut them down.

 

That is the most ridiculous type of jealousy I have EVER heard of.....

[Adachi 772]

It won't be (much of) a problem with cartoons and potentially other TV shows, but everywhere else it's going to basically blow up. It doesn't matter how much money you spend on your new game engine or software UI, someone can rip it from your code base and post it for a twelfth of the price. As much as I detest copyright, it has its place. 

Yeah that's true. Maybe limit it to television, or if needed, to cartoons specifically?

 

Honestly, I think just being able to copyright characters, locations (rl locations are public domain), and names would be enough. Everything else, go nuts. I think that would keep things different enough to keep problems from arising. And companies should be allowed to give groups permission to use their intellectual works as long as they pay royalties and they're given permission. I feel that Fighting Is Magic was only taken down due to a loophole in the law that would've made Hasbro lose their copyright to MLP. And I would agree with Hasbro, but that doesn't make copyright law make any more sense.

[Freewave 1,145]

I don't care what he says. I care that this is fucking unfair and unnecessary. What, do I have to think that they were magnanimous by letting it live for a while before killing it?

 

Would you rather they do more C&D's immediately on stuff that violates their copyright OR let it succeed for a bit and strike it down after it succeeds and continues to get more and more ambitious in scope?

Well, I don't. This is bullshit. Why is there a fair use clause then? The only reason this happened it's because Hasbro has money to throw at the court. Oh... Poor Hasbro... Someone is making fan content. They are gonna lose all their money if then don't protect their IP! Won't someone think of the IP?! What a load of political correctness. 

 

People always freak out about these C&D's, ignore the legal rights that Hasbro has in this circumstance, ignore the fact that we've already shown that "fair use" and "parody laws don't apply here, and of course continue to  whinge about it while Hasbro's ceo says he'll look into it.  Be a little patient and grow up a little. It's embarassing to see many members of the fandom, act like children everytime something like this happens. Fannon has to be responsible for itself and follow the law.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Freewave

[Midnight Seeker 302]

WELL... If you're going to bring disney into this, technically the things they work with are in the public domain, and as such can be used perfectly legally. However, as disney is creating an original IP BASED on the previous work, it's just different enough to be defensible.

 

Copyright used to only be good for about 50 years. Every time Steamboat Willie comes up, Disney crap themselves, and unleash their lawyers and lobbyists to have that time extended.

 

The point I was trying to make is that the big companies all do this crap (I did not mean to pick on Disney especially). The big guys keep re-writing the rules to suit themselves and this is why I despise copyright laws.

 

I am now backing out of this conversation and will not reply to the thread. I've said all I desire to, and I really don't feel like debating. No issue, I'm just stressed and tired from work. You want to respond to anything I've said, go nuts.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

I know, how about certain people completely freak out about this, ignore the legal rights that Hasbro has in this circumstance, ignore the fact that we've already shown that "fair use" and "parody laws don't apply here, and of course whinge about it while Hasbro's ceo says he'll look into it.  Be a little patient and grow up a little.

Grow up? Seriously? Go condescend someone else.

Show me how is it that this law works that it allows for someone to "claim" an already registered product of any kind because he is making fanwork of it in a way that doesn't sound like scare tactics.

[Bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb 167]

While I don't want to get into full details on what happened after seeing the EQD article due to having blown a emotional fuse and almost flying off the handle as they would say, but this is an issue that keeps creeping up time and time again. First we have seen it with Fighting is Magic last year and now this mess and as always, the fans are up in arms.

 

Now while I don't want to get involved on how this came to be nor I take any sides on this issue,in my opinion the whole copyright and trademark system, not only in Australia, but also worldwide in general is simply put, broken, tired, outdated and in need of a major overhaul. There has to be a fair solution which benefits both parties to prevent things like this from happening again.

 

If it means having to set up some guidelines on how fan works are made (e.g. for noncommercial use, not for profit etc) so fans don't end up falling in the same trap, then it might be a fair compromise in the long run.  

 

 

 

As a member of the Australian branch of the Pirate Party, this is one of the issues that has currently on the agenda in regards to copyright and trademark reform in Australia at present and also fair use and fair dealing of content.

 

I won't go on any further due to risking another fuse blow, but I'll leave this tweet that I made earlier to sum up my feelings:

 

"But still, this highlights the need for massive trademark and copyright reform, especially for fandoms like the brony community."

it really is in need of reform everywhere it takes way to long for one copyright to expire 100 years I think correct me if I'm wrong but I think they should have to renew their copyright on something maybe every 10 - 20 years

[Shenron00 366]

It makes sense that Hasbro doesn't want others using designs they made without permission. There's not a lot of reason to be mad at them for doing something that makes sense. The design for BM (still laughing at that) wasn't made by Jan. But it is sad to see Button go, the personality went great with the character design. Luckily for us, the personality was made by Jan, so he can use it for a design that he made on his own. It won't be the exact same, but we'll get used to it.