Jan animations shut down by hasbro/C&D

[Adachi 772]

 

 

I'm not upset. I'm pissed. And I'm pissed at you for the way you've talked to me.

And if it is not appropriate to cuss then you can report those comments to the mods.

Tell me how this law works and that it's not a tool for scare tactics and I'll shut up. How is it that fan work puts an IP in danger of being lost when this thing is registered, forcing Hasbro to take legal action.

 

They used Sweetie Belle, and their animation is exactly like Hasbro's, if not better. Otherwise I don't see why they would have a problem. It's the same thing with Fighting is Magic. They put a ton of effort into every frame to get the sprites spot on with the show.

 

You don't see Luna Game being taken down, or Daddy Discord, or Smile HD, or the .mov series, or most of the other videos, because either they're not fully animated, they don't use actual characters from the show, or they use a completely different animation style. Button was modelled after a pony that actually appeared on the show, the whole series used the same exact style as FiM, and they used Sweetie Belle, while not a major character, still a character that appears a lot throughout the series. For any major corporation, that would normally spell 3 strikes, and most would've sued the cutie marks off of whoever was responsible. But they let the creator of Buttons off with a warning, same for the Mane 6 team. Hasbro is probably the least lawsuit happy company out of them all, and the only time they will even think of sending a C&D is if it's in danger of threatening their IP. Don't blame Hasbro, blame the FUBAR copyright laws. That's like blaming a restaurant for bad wine when there's a wine monopoly and all restaurants have to buy wine from the same company.

 

Edit: If you want a good example of how to do fan work right, just look at Turnabout Storm. Since the videos were done Phoenix Wright style, it was more like a visual novel, so they got around the whole animation thing, and the VA's did a good job at keeping the voices just different enough so that they wouldn't get C&D'd for using voices from the show. Even with different voices, it was still a smash hit and Hasbro didn't see it as a threat since they used none of Hasbro's properties, except still shots, and maybe a tiny bit of animation to move the characters mouths to make it look like they're talking.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Ryudo

[The Coffee Pony 1,390]

I've only got this to say about copyright law: just because it is law doesn't mean it isn't completely stupid.

[Fox 5,330]

We should sent hate mail. 

[ReverseFaller 2,483]

Isn't the US government trying to pass some sort of new SOPA bill that would do something like this to all fan created content on the internet? I hope it doesn't pass or our loss will be a lot greater than just Button Mash.

 

Also, Hasbro seems to randomly target people when making individuals take down their work due to copyrights. There is just so much fan created pony content on the internet, after all. It makes you wonder Hasbro chooses the people they do. Why Jan-Animations in particular? There are a lot of other people they could shut down as well, but they don't. It's weird.

[Rainboom Dash 1,056]

Shame. It's really sad Hasbro is cracking down on fanworks lately.

[Adachi 772]

Isn't the US government trying to pass some sort of new SOPA bill that would do something like this to all fan created content on the internet? I hope it doesn't pass or our loss will be a lot greater than just Button Mash.

 

Also, Hasbro seems to randomly target people when making individuals take down their work due to copyrights. There is just so much fan created pony content on the internet, after all. It makes you wonder Hasbro chooses the people they do. Why Jan-Animations in particular? There are a lot of other people they could shut down as well, but they don't. It's weird.

Because Jan Animations used a much higher quality that was eerily close to the actual show's, and also used the same style, a background pony's design, and one of their actual characters. Note that all fan works that have been shut down show the same signs. They have top notch quality that matches the show's and they use actual characters from the show.

 

Hasbro isn't gonna go after anyone who uses a different style, or only made up characters that happen to look like ponies. It was those 3 things together that made them take action, and they even allowed them to continue it for a while. Although I do have to say, I think video game companies are a lot less strict, because there's this thing called MUGEN which is a fighting game engine that lets players create their own fighting games, and countless people rip sprites directly from fighting games and claim at least some kind of credit, but Capcom, Neo Geo, Midway, etc rarely, if ever prosecute or C&D anyone over it. Capcom is especially cool, they consider all MUGEN works with their character sprites to be a form of fan art, as long as the people who rip those sprites aren't making money off of it.

[Shenron00 366]

Here's a question though: is that really how it SHOULD be? Is that the kind of world we want to live in? A world where everyone just watches the show, and can't really make cool, inspired things from it in the least?

 

You know that Fan Fiction and Fan Art at all also can be C&D'd. Just period. Is that how things really SHOULD be? For the benefit of anybody?

What are you talking about? You talk like it's the end of the world as we know it. That won't happen for at least a few decades (a decade is 10 years right?) Anyways, not all fan art can be C&Dd. What Jan did was take a character that was already designed and gave it a personality without the permission of Hasbro. The reason ponies like Derpy or Lyra Heartstrings have fan-made personalities is because they were given personalities by the brony community and not 1 person. I love Jan's videos, he's one of my favorite YouTube bronies, but what he did apparently wasn't liked by Hasbro, and was somewhat illegal I guess. It's sad to see good 'ol Button Mash go, but we can't always have what we want.

[Adorkable 2,737]

Hasbro seems to randomly target people when making individuals take down their work due to copyrights. 

 

I think it's more like the really popular works than anything. ^^"

[Guest]

I'm giggiling because another college 20 somthing thinks that because a book says it is ok, that he should never fight against it.

When did I say that?

 

The issue here is that there really is little to contest not  because some "book" says to, but because going against it means you have to strip people of their rights. You are acting like anyone who thinks Hasbro is within their rights is just following a corrupt system, when in reality let's look at this with logic:

 

Hasbro is protecting their IP by saying "okay you can't just rip off trademarks we paid for". Literally Hasbro had to pay for the rights to their characters. They bought the rights with real money. When you use then, you are using something they legally own.

 

"But Mist, it's non-profit!"

 

Is it? Attention creates cash. I am sure that John Joseco gets a lot more commissions because of the attention he got from drawing pony fan art. He definitely benefited, just not directly. Besides even if it's not for profit, exactly how is it fair that you get attention for using something that you don't have permission to use? It's someone else's idea.

 

"But we gave credit!"

 

And I suppose you're going to tell me that because you brought my car back that it makes up for never getting permission to use it?

 

"But Hasbro is stunting creativity!"

 

If I told you that you can't do fan work and you tell me that suddenly your creativity is stunted or that you can't create anymore then you aren't very original to begin with.

 

"But but but... It's still not fair!"

 

And exactly what about your idea is fair? You're basically saying that we should give people permission to rip off IPs that other people have paid for so long as they are only doing it "a little" and not a lot. The facts remain: you use something without permission you are still taking from the original owners. Case closed. There is nothing to contest.

 

Please tell me what part about this equation you are contesting and why. Please give me the reasoning behind why it needs to be contested and I will gladly hear your argument. You seem to have this impression that the copyright laws are being abused and that there is a better way, well let's hear it. You are acting like these laws have not ever been disputed either, when they have. We are not blindly following what a book says, we are following a set of laws that have been argued, contested and held up because they made sense.

 

Please though, tell me how the laws are wrong. I would love to hear your defense as to why Hasbro has no right to take down something that is blatantly using their registered trademarks. Please give me a sound argument as to why Jan Animations was not in violation and why the copyright laws are "unfairly" defending Hasbro. I really want to see this.

[Khaoios 1,970]

Assuming it is C&D, that's truly unfortunate indeed. If nothing else though, it's obvious what mediums Hasbro goes after. Things so official & viral that it could be quite easily mistaken for official content, *Fighting is Magic, top-of-the-line animations like Jan; Double Rainboom would have been most likely if they hadn't gotten educational permission first*, and viral concepts and things that they don't need their target audience seeing *Molestia blog, etc*.

 

While sad indeed, I really don't wanna see people going on about Apocalyptic Hasbro eliminating all fandom content, like people love to do every single time they C&D something. Because as unfortunate and irritating as it is, that's not true by leaps and bounds. Go talk to Warner Brothers and just about every music company on the face of the planet if you want to talk about removing fan content just because it's there and you've been made aware of it :3 When you look at the sheer scope of not just fandom content, but high-quality fandom content that this fandom has made, and then you look at the handful of things Hasbro's gone after, it should not be hard to see that they're pretty damn fair and lenient for the most part.

 

Hasbro has zero to gain from crusading around and trying to quell fandom content. Hell, they've given out licenses to things like welovefine and other merchandise organizations, specifically for our demographic's interest. Few, few companies would do shit like that. This fandom has given them fucktons of money more than anything they'd have ever initially gotten from just their target audience. It's probably because of our impact that's gotten the show going on to five seasons and beyond. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot by trying to stop their fanbase from giving them free advertising, throwing money at them for merchandise and giving their show a worldwide publicity that they pretty much don't have to pay for.

 

They could be worlds, worlds less fair and be killing off a lot more things than they do. And as a company that needs to protect its' trademark like all companies, they're required to do at least some C&D type action. The fact that of the endless list of fandom shit this fandom has produced, they've stopped nothing but a handful of only the highest-known and highest-quality things, is pretty lucky.

 

I have to fully agree. At this point, now that you said that, im concerned about the other fan films,   They keep this up, and they'll be sailing down shit creek.

 

 

BTW, i just realized, on who ever mentioned, "Style similar to actual show's style".   Anyone watch, Children of the Night?  B/c I have a hunch that that is next, but I hope to god its not. 

Edited March 23, 2014 by Promethean Alicorn

[Guest]

 

 

We should sent hate mail. 

 

I hope you're being sarcastic.

[Celli 4,338]

Come on Hasbro. Give us a break.

We should sent hate mail. 

I think that would make the problem worse. -_-

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

When did I say that?

 

The issue here is that there really is little to contest not because some "book" says to, but because going against it means you have to strip people of their rights. You are acting like anyone who thinks Hasbro is within their rights is just following a corrupt system, when in reality let's look at this with logic:

 

Hasbro is protecting their IP by saying "okay you can't just rip off trademarks we paid for". Literally Hasbro had to pay for the rights to their characters. They bought the rights with real money. When you use then, you are using something they legally own.

 

"But Mist, i'm strawmaning a point that I never made!"

 

Is it? Attention creates cash. I am sure that John Joseco gets a lot more commissions because of the attention he got from drawing pony fan art. He definitely benefited, just not directly. Besides even if it's not for profit, exactly how is it fair that you get attention for using something that you don't have permission to use? It's someone else's idea.

 

"But we gave credit!"

 

And I suppose you're going to tell me that because you brought my car back that it makes up for never getting permission to use it?

 

"But Hasbro is stunting creativity!"

 

If I told you that you can't do fan work and you tell me that suddenly your creativity is stunted or that you can't create anymore then you aren't very original to begin with.

 

"But but but... It's muh strawman again goyim!"

 

And exactly what about your idea is fair? You're basically saying that we should give people permission to rip off IPs that other people have paid for so long as they are only doing it "a little" and not a lot. The facts remain: you use something without permission you are still taking from the original owners. Case closed. There is nothing to contest.

 

Please tell me what part about this equation you are contesting and why. Please give me the reasoning behind why it needs to be contested and I will gladly hear your argument. You seem to have this impression that the copyright laws are being abused and that there is a better way, well let's hear it. You are acting like these laws have not ever been disputed either, when they have. We are not blindly following what a book says, we are following a set of laws that have been argued, contested and held up because they made sense.

 

Please though, tell me how the laws are wrong. I would love to hear your defense as to why Hasbro has no right to take down something that is blatantly using their registered trademarks. Please give me a sound argument as to why Jan Animations was not in violation and why the copyright laws are "unfairly" defending Hasbro. I really want to see this.

That's right misgoyim. Keep defending those laws. Keep defending that mega corporation. And you are starting to sound like a ass. The law in its current form gives them the "right" to remove things they feel violate their ip. Things they feel. Not things a court feels, or things that a general consensus of the people feel.What the corporation feels. Go a head, keep defending the US copywrite law that tears away fan works, that right now in the form of the TPP is working to dismantle the internet you currently enjoy. Because all it takes, is a little more added onto the current law, and they could throw you in court for using a mlp inspired avatar on this website. But no, keep defending the current law, don't try to change anything. Why would the great mega corporation ever do anything to harm you? Edited March 23, 2014 by Miaq_The_Liar

[Guest]

I've only got this to say about copyright law: just because it is law doesn't mean it isn't completely stupid.

Just because it's an old law does not inherently make it wrong either. You need to present an argument for why it should be contested in order to contest it. I see a lot of people go "oh those old laws are dumb" but I see no one proposing why or how we could make them better. You think that these laws just are brought to court and someone goes "oh, yup they broke the law. Yup instant lose."

 

In many court cases someone will point out that the law is unfair and they can present an argument as to why. We have had hundreds if not thousands of copyright claims since the law was made. Do you honestly believe that no one has contested the law and that we are just using it despite it being "non-working"? No. People have contested it and their arguments were not sufficient to justify removing the law or changing it. When someone does, the law gets changed, but we are not going to change or remove a law just because it's old.

 

Many people use the argument of old to think "if it's old it must be good" and yes that is a fallacy, however it works in reverse. Just because it's old does not mean it's not good either.

[Adorkable 2,737]

We should sent hate mail. 

 

 

That has "bad idea" written all over it. ^^"

[NavelColt 22,879]

I have to fully agree. At this point, now that you said that, im concerned about the other fan films,   They keep this up, and they'll be sailing down shit creek.

 

The best thing for high-quality animators to do is to seek permission like what Double Rainboom did. I just hope Hasbro works at making seeking permission from them more simple than what it is, by making some public information available about a simple-to-follow guideline for who to contact about projects and things. More people would do it if Hasbro showed better iniative about making that contact info public. Many people go with, 'I'll just do it and hope it doesn't catch their attention and strike them as something that may cause misidentification with their own product', rather than seeking permission, due to the fact that they're not quite so obvious in doing that, yet.

[Guest]

 

 

That's right misgoyim. Keep defending those laws. Keep defending that mega corporation.

 

Annnnd it all comes out. You have a hatred for big business. I am sorry, but just because you don't like big business does not instantly make them wrong. You still have to prove it. I will defend laws that are based upon sound logic. If you can present a good counter, I will look at it and if it is based upon good logic, then I would agree we should convert it into a law.

 

 

 

The law in its current form gives them the "right" to remove things they feel violate their ip. Things they feel. Not things a court feels, or things that a general consensus of the people feel.

 

What the hell are you talking about? Even if Hasbro sent on a C&D, if Jan Animations wanted to, they could take it to court and let the court decide. The court decides if the corporations feelings are justified or not. Don't be absurd.

 

 

 

Go a head, keep defending the US copywrite law that tears away fan works, that right now in the form of the TPP is working to dismantle the internet you currently enjoy.

 

You clearly do not understand that issue very well do you? That's a whole other topic. I'll leave that for another day.

 

 

 

Because all it takes, is a little more added onto the current law, and they could throw you in court for using a mlp inspired avatar on this website.

 

Logic jump. Just because they have the right to take down content doesn't mean they could or would try to press for jail time. You're being absurd and you clearly have not read the laws. Jail time is rare in these cases.

 

 

 

But no, keep defending the current law, don't try to change anything.

 

Once again: You dodged the question. What needs to be changed? Please explain the part that you feel needs to be changed and what we should change it to. 

[GXPBlast 597]

Just yesterday this thread was started, its amazing how many responses it has gotten. I am noticing the many users are against what Hasbro is doing, but some do agree with their actions. Some are getting into debates about this and its getting heated. I wonder how long this thread will last before it gets locked by the mods?

[Guest]

Essentially I am noticing a pattern. Hasbro uses its rights in copyright, they are wrong just because they are a big business. I am willing to bet if like Hasbro was a single artist who is contesting people doing the exact same thing, they would think it's somehow different.

 

Essentially the mentality is: big business is bad, therefore anything they do is wrong unless I think it's not.

[Adorkable 2,737]

The best thing for high-quality animators to do is to seek permission like what Double Rainboom did. I just hope Hasbro works at making seeking permission from them more simple than what it is, by making some public information available about a simple-to-follow guideline for who to contact about projects and things. More people would do it if Hasbro showed better iniative about making that contact info public.

 

That would be an awesome idea! ^^

 

Now that's the kind of mail you should send them, no hate mail. ^^"

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Annnnd it all comes out. You have a hatred for big business. I am sorry, but just because you don't like big business does not instantly make them wrong. You still have to prove it. I will defend laws that are based upon sound logic. If you can present a good counter, I will look at it and if it is based upon good logic, then I would agree we should convert it into a law.

 

 

 

What the hell are you talking about? Even if Hasbro sent on a C&D, if Jan Animations wanted to, they could take it to court and let the court decide. The court decides if the corporations feelings are justified or not. Don't be absurd.

 

 

 

You clearly do not understand that issue very well do you? That's a whole other topic. I'll leave that for another day.

 

 

 

Logic jump. Just because they have the right to take down content doesn't mean they could or would try to press for jail time. You're being absurd and you clearly have not read the laws. Jail time is rare in these cases.

 

 

 

Once again: You dodged the question. What needs to be changed? Please explain the part that you feel needs to be changed and what we should change it to.

 

I answered exactly what needs to be changed, just because you can break up a post and multi-quote, does not mean you are correct. You are nothing more than another first year college kid, who reads what their professors tells them do, and follows suit. The law needs to be changed, as to allow for less user defined infractions of copywrite. And you yourself are quite guilty of logic jumps, "you are just giving out the idea that you can rip off ips!", which was never stated in any sort in any of the posts I made, nor did I ever insinuate that.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

 

 

This I can help with.

 

Thank you. I understand that. This is why every site that has a pony being shown has been "politely asked" to take them down too right?

 

No. This didn't happen. They are targeting Jan Animations because they have some magical scale of nonsensery where Jan Animations got to "TOO BIG!" and it's suddenly a threat. So they send the criminal perpetrator fan a letter that basically says: "We're gonna sue you if you don't stop making us hallucinate that we will lose our IP because of you. And because there are some common sense black holes of laws that let us do it, you need to stop whatever it is that you are doing. By the way, we have a lot of money to maintain a legal battle. Do you have a lot of money? Thought so. Now go back to consume."

 

They are not going to lose their IP because some guys are doing cute fan animations on YouTube. I can agree that that dude selling figures of the characters could be trouble, because he was putting a product on the market, but this is ridiculous.

 

So people want to be nice and don't want trouble with gigantic multinational corporations, and they nicely comply. So now where does this stop? Who gets to decide who they can bully into submission and who they can't? I get that the problem is that there is a legal system that allows for this, but it's like having a gun. If it shoots and kills someone innocent, I'm going to blame the owner, not the gun and not the fact that guns exist.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Essentially I am noticing a pattern. Hasbro uses its rights in copyright, they are wrong just because they are a big business. I am willing to bet if like Hasbro was a single artist who is contesting people doing the exact same thing, they would think it's somehow different.

 

Essentially the mentality is: big business is bad, therefore anything they do is wrong unless I think it's not.

Yes, why would we ever distrust a large corporation, why would we ever voice concern over a large conglomerate. It's not like historically large top heavy corporations have ever done any wrong.

[Metemponychosis 1,261]

They used Sweetie Belle, and their animation is exactly like Hasbro's, if not better. Otherwise I don't see why they would have a problem. It's the same thing with Fighting is Magic. They put a ton of effort into every frame to get the sprites spot on with the show.

 

You don't see Luna Game being taken down, or Daddy Discord, or Smile HD, or the .mov series, or most of the other videos, because either they're not fully animated, they don't use actual characters from the show, or they use a completely different animation style. Button was modelled after a pony that actually appeared on the show, the whole series used the same exact style as FiM, and they used Sweetie Belle, while not a major character, still a character that appears a lot throughout the series. For any major corporation, that would normally spell 3 strikes, and most would've sued the cutie marks off of whoever was responsible. But they let the creator of Buttons off with a warning, same for the Mane 6 team. Hasbro is probably the least lawsuit happy company out of them all, and the only time they will even think of sending a C&D is if it's in danger of threatening their IP. Don't blame Hasbro, blame the FUBAR copyright laws. That's like blaming a restaurant for bad wine when there's a wine monopoly and all restaurants have to buy wine from the same company.

 

Edit: If you want a good example of how to do fan work right, just look at Turnabout Storm. Since the videos were done Phoenix Wright style, it was more like a visual novel, so they got around the whole animation thing, and the VA's did a good job at keeping the voices just different enough so that they wouldn't get C&D'd for using voices from the show. Even with different voices, it was still a smash hit and Hasbro didn't see it as a threat since they used none of Hasbro's properties, except still shots, and maybe a tiny bit of animation to move the characters mouths to make it look like they're talking.

I just answered to Fhaolan. I think that it works for your comment too.

And thank you for not being condescending. I come here to make friends, and I see that I can be dense, but I think that I'm in the right in this one.

[Neon Fire 473]

NOOO! D:  That's SO stupid.  I can understand if he were making money off it, but if not, who cares?!  He's giving more support to the show!  I think that's ridiculous...