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Rarity= Feminism?


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So as a new Brony to THIS forum, I wanted to bring up a conversation based aroud my ring of Rpers/Bronies/Pegasisters that inhabit MN Stpaul USA..

 

"Rarity is the height of what a female is ment to be"

 

Now bare with me with that orignal statement, i know modern standards will BAWK at such a thing, a female who loves dresses, design, and giving to others. I get it, today Women are ment to "be as much a man as a man was in past society...."....sure, ok whatever. But frankly, no man can see the beauty in a stich, no man smile at the pattern of flowers in a garden, no man can know what it means ot bare a pup in there belly to full term. So here is the question.

 

 

Rarity Belle, the femme of fashion, of high society, of drama and of sniff nosed muzzle in the air. She who is the Mare of the OLD SCHOOL, how doe she resign in the societ of the modern age. You know, the female who wears a size 0, who wanders in belly tanks and says thinigs like "sup girl" or "bitchs please", is Rarity a hallmark of old school......OR.....the resign...of what female hood..is ment to be?!?!

 

 

These are the questions..ima Brony, not a Pegasister...i would, envy the insist of those who are born of the female femdom, please respond.

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I think that every person should be themselves. Not watch some skinny models and try to be like them. Rarity is great I love her, but that doesn't mean that every female should be like her. Everyone is great and beautiful in their own way. Raritys way is being appealing to the eye and her generous and beautiful nature, but that doesn't mean that someone who doesn't fit to those standards is less. You just have to get deeper into the person to realize how great they are. 

 

People are different and if you try to be someone else you are not happy because the only person you can be is yourself.

 

 

mlfw2964_small.jpg

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I reject anything that says that a gender is suppose to be a certain way. I'd rather people be who they want to be, not what people think their gender is suppose to be.

 

If I recall correctly, Faust designed the mane six to show that there are many different ways to be a woman, and all of them are good.

Edited by Banul
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I don't think your sex should dictate how you act or what you do. Rarity is a character, and an individual. Many of her friends are female, with different personalities and traits that differ from her own. She is not more or less female than any of the other female characters in the show. They should be seen for their individuality, not their sex.

 

If everyone were the same, it'd be boring. Women and men come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, strengths, weaknesses, qualities, traits, personalities and ambitions. Therefore I disagree with the "No man can" aspect of this topic. You could argue that no man can appreciate or should watch a show about ponies, yet they do, because individuality exists.

Edited by Kek
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I'm pretty sure there are men who can "See the beauty of a stitch" or "Smile at the pattern of flowers". I mean, I like flowers. Some of them look pretty nice and smell pleasant, and I'm a man. 

 

 People should just be who they want to be. Trying to force people to act a certain way just because of what gender they are is stupid. Rainbow being into sports, flying, and other things that would be considered "Manly" isn't wrong. Just as a man liking "Feminine" things like fashion isn't wrong. Rarity is wonderful for being herself, just as all of the mane six are.

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I'm size 0, but I don't act like those other girls. :(  I just have thin in my genetics. I love to cook, clean, take care of my daughter, and dress nicely, but that doesn't really define who I am. I love playing video games, swinging around swords/fighting, and occasionally talking some smack to my friends and husband (just to play around). I still teach my daughter manners and courtesy too. I wouldn't consider myself like Rarity hardly at all (though I love her character), but I don't fit in with the other girls you described either.

 

Honestly, Applejack is actually more befitting of an old school female, in my opinion. Back in the day, women would get out and work with the animals and gardens they had to raise as well as cook good meals. Clothes were more about covering you up rather than being super overdone to look the prettiest unless you were rich, in which case, you didn't usually sew your own clothes. Applejack also isn't afraid of getting dirty while still keeping her house well taken care of (with her family's help too, of course). As a mother and wife, you sometimes have to get dirty. A lot of people would consider Applejack to be quite the tomboy actually, but she fits what women used to be like back in the day. That doesn't mean every female should be like Applejack though.

 

A lot of the problem in today's world is that the women drink and party all the time, they think that the way to a man's heart is through how much they're willing to show or give of their bodies, and that the more guys they lure in, the better and hotter they are. We can thank a lot of pop stars, movie stars, and tv shows for that though. I say if a lot of that thinking and living got cut out, we'd have a good variety of decent ideal females, each with their own interests and personalities.

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I go by the saying, "feminism should be whatever the hell you want it to be."  If you want to be career and business focused, be career and business focused.  If you want to stay at home with the kids then stay at home with the kids.  If you want to be a bit of a tramp, then be a bit of a tramp.  There should be no defined role IMO, it should simply a push for the freedom to choose to do what you wish to do.

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Yes, Rarity represents feminism.

 

Yes, every women can be what they want and the don't need to have feminine attitudes, but that's the point, they don't need to, some women think that they MUST NO, and why? Current "feminist" media is trying to teach us that femininity means submissiveness (and it doesn't) and that feminism and femininity are mutually exclusive (and they're not). That kind of "feminism" reinforces gender roles stereotypes by making the feminine role look like something old with no place in the current world.

 

Now look at Rarity, she's very feminine, but she's an independent strong woman who can stand up for herself, and that's the biggest expression of REAL feminism, women can be strong without ripping off their femininity. Now, if you don't wanna be femenine that's great, but it should be because that's how you are, not because being femenine is "bad".

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Oh no...Don't bring real-world ideals into MLP please...

 

Lauren Faust created these six's personalities to show that they can break gender roles in their own ways.

It would go against that thought process to revert to labeling the idea of Rarity or whoever as feminism.

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no man can see the beauty in a stich

 

Fashion designers.

 

no man smile at the pattern of flowers in a garden

 

A lot of people would disagree with you there. Fair enough on pregnancy, though.  ;) 

 

Now bare with me with that orignal statement, i know modern standards will BAWK at such a thing, a female who loves dresses, design, and giving to others. I get it, today Women are ment to "be as much a man as a man was in past society...."....sure, ok whatever.

 

Backing up a bit, this is kind of weird to me. Your argument seems to be that modern standards balk at women being generous because charitability is a uniquely feminine quality and modern standards promote masculinity for both genders. Isn't generosity a virtue no matter whether you are a man or a woman, though? If men can't understand style or art as well as women (which I would strongly disagree with), are men similarly unable to be as generous as women?

 

You know, the female who wears a size 0

 

And there weren't skinny women in the past? I'm confused at how this fits into your argument, anyhow. Skinniness isn't particularly masculine or feminine quality as far as I know, and Rarity is no fatter or slimmer than her friends. 

 

who wanders in belly tanks and says thinigs like "sup girl"

Again, if you're arguing that modern sensibilities encourage women to be more mannish, this seems like an odd detail, unless there's some really weird trends for men that I've been missing.  :derp: 

 

img-3158222-1-i-Zfn8T5f-S.jpg

The modern man. 

 

 

 is Rarity a hallmark of old school......OR.....the resign...of what female hood..is ment to be?!?!

 

I don't consider her to be either. Rarity is a good person with many admirable traits, but she's a character like any other. She has flaws; she's a drama queen, she can be a bit artificial, she's a perfectionist, etc. 

 

To me, Rarity is a feminist character because she supports the idea that girls can be any type of character, any at all, and be just as well written, just as engaging, and just as varied and flavorful as any male character may be.

 

That's not just something that Rarity supports. That's something all the Mane 6 support.

Edited by Stellafera
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Rarity is my favourite pony, and it's pretty much because she represents feminism the best. Granted, all of the Mane 6 do as well, but this white unicorn deserves some extra credit. 

 

Rarity teaches us that there are different ways to be a girl, which is also a message that needed to be seen. It helps that we don't see any other pony judging others for their tastes and personality. Because of these two reasons, I'd rather view her as an individual than feminine.

 

It's pretty silly to shove things you don't like down your throat. Rather than doing that, you should let others try out things for themselves instead of telling them to stick to the gender roles.

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A strong-willed, independent, cunning, intelligent female who manages to work hard towards her own dreams and aspirations while also being able to be a great friend to those around her and doesn't need a "prince" to come rescue her when she is in need. 

 

Probably the best role model for young girls who watch this show. She's girly, yet strong. Feminine, yet independent. Chases her dreams, yet makes time for those she cares about. She works in a cold and greedy industry, yet doesn't let it change her and she remains friendly and generous.

 

She's truly the type of pony every pony should know and essentially the design of characters I love most - strong yet feminine females.

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Hmm. This is a very interesting topic for me considering that not only is Rarity my favorite character in MLP, but has actually cracked the list of all time favorite fictional characters. Part of the reason has something to do with this very topic and how I approached and approach the character.

 

I'll sit back and watch for now though. When I do post .... 1500 words easy. Maybe longer.

Oh no...Don't bring real-world ideals into MLP please...

 

Lauren Faust created these six's personalities to show that they can break gender roles in their own ways.

It would go against that thought process to revert to labeling the idea of Rarity or whoever as feminism.

As an artist don't you feel that interpretation through a personal filter of experiences is something that goes hand and hand with the psychology behind the shared function of art? I am surprised the hear you denounce this aspect of personal transference.

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First, I strongly disagree with the notion that men cannot grasp the beauty of stitches or flowers, or anything else which is traditionally ascribed to feminine characteristics, for that matter.  I have frequently found myself drawn by the colorful arrangement of flowers or the passing of a butterfly, and make no pretense about having no interest in such things.  The idea that people cannot, or should not, deviate from traditional gender norms is one which has survived for too long.

 

Many of the characters in the show exhibit behavior which contradicts gender stereotypes, and Rarity is no exception.  I think ghostfacekiller56 summed up her personality very well.  One of my favorite episodes is "A Dog and Pony Show", in which Rarity successfully challenges the "damsel in distress" cliche (much to Spike's disappointment).  She uses her personality not in a way which limits her, but empowers her, without having to assume "masculine" traits.  It's refreshing to see a female protagonist shed in such a light.  It seems like most prominent female characters on screen today rely almost entirely on sexuality to advance their part of the story.

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As an artist don't you feel that interpretation through a personal filter of experiences is something that goes hand and hand with the psychology behind the shared function of art? I am surprised the hear you denounce this aspect of personal transference.

Not necessarily, no.

Especially when something has a pre-designated (by the artist, or in this case, the creator) form and function.

 

As a dipsh*t that makes art, I once made a picture of my OC in outer space and some dude asked me if it was an allegory for depression and anxiety.

I'm like, "it's a pony is space, guy".

This is relevant:

what-the-author-meant.jpg

 

 

Also, I kinda don't like it when people inflict real world ideals and afflictions to the show I go to to get AWAY from real world ideals and afflictions.

Yeah, it's selfish.

Take it up with my Indian trube, The So-Sue-Me's ;o

Edited by Dattebayo
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The female stereotype is a businesswoman from a lower middle class family who aspires to mingle with the gentility? :wau:

No no, the ones that at night, they sprout wings and turn into WereDucks and congregate around kiddie pools filled with cocktail sauce and past-due mayonnaise and pray to their base gods, who have taken the forms of everyday vehicles

 

Yes. they worship the transformers.

Edited by Dattebayo
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My idea of feminism is that a woman can be or do whatever suits her. If she wants to engage in a more traditional societal role, that's as valid as being a CEO of a munitions manufacturer. It isn't about kicking women out of old roles, but in saying that women aren't bound by them.

 

Men should be afforded the same freedom by society in fulfilling roles that suit the individual without being ostracized for being "girly" which is nonsensical as an insult in that women are strong on their own. Carrying a child is a pretty crazy thing to do if you think about it. Birth itself is an ordeal worthy of a medal.

 

I ramble though. In summation, let people do what they want so long as it isn't hurting themselves or others.

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I don't think Rarity's portrayal is sexist. I mean, sure, characters like Applejack and Rainbowdash have more tomboyish traits, and even archetypes such as the shy animal lover, the party animal, and the book worm aren't inherently feminine, which could be a big part of why the female Mane Six has managed to find such a large fanbase even outside of their target demographic, but that doesn't make Rarity's portrayal sexist. There's nothing wrong with a female character being super feminine. In fact, I'm not exactly sure why that's seen as a bad thing. By that same token, is it sexist to portray a male character as super manly?

 

Besides, I'm quite fond of the classic lady archetype. In fact, if I could find one and marry her, I'd be on cloud nine, but sadly I think she's a dying breed, if she even exists in the real world, outside of upperclass circles such as the royal family or the Red Carpet(but I think in the latter case, that's more of an act to keep up appearances). I guess you could blame it on the films I watched in my childhood, including classic Disney features like Cinderella, but I think I fell for a lady with an air of elegance to her. Don't take that the wrong way though. I do like the modern woman, and am glad lines are blurring as we move slowly but surely towards an egalitarian society, but does that mean that women shouldn't embrace the fact that they're women?

 

That's not to say I'm against women having a backbone. As a Persona fan, a couple of my favorite characters are Mitsuru Kirijo and Yukiko Amagi, who, in addition to being a more modern portrayal of the classic lady, are also quite deadly in their own right, and aren't the type one would want to mess with. Rarity has also proven she's proficient in hand to hand combat, but I'm not at all implying that combat proficiency is the only thing that gives a woman a backbone. Rarity is the owner of her own business, and a leader in her trade who has ambition to get noticed, and make a name for herself. On that level, there's no reason why she shouldn't be relatable even to those who aren't into fashion. Her trade may not be as traditionally masculine as Applejack's, but I imagine Ponyville's economy benefits greatly from what she does too. The bottom line is, I think Rarity is just as respectable as any of the other Mane Six.

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Now I am a guy, so I may be misinformed on this, but Rarity is my second favorite of the Mane Six after Pinkie Pie for this very reason. My mom always says that girls today aren't taught to be kind, they're taught to be conniving and vindictive.

 

One of Lauren's goals was showing little girls you could be strong without being cruel, Gilda and Suri in particular are archetypes to that effect.

 

Rarity is an astounding role model for both boys and girls, but for focusing on girls, she surpasses many other animated women. She is into fashion yes, but she's not a shopaholic valley girl, she's an artist and an entrepreneur. She's ambitious and doesn't settle for the life she's been given when she knows she can achieve more. Rarity however, prides herself on being a lady, it's an expression of her desire to bring beauty into the world through being both a creator of it and an exemplar of such.

 

If I have a daughter one day, I hope that she likes Rarity when I show her one of my favorite shows.

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Well, I warned you all. I also have to come clean in a way. My post last night was actually premeditated as I was expecting and received the response I was hoping for as a more fitting segue into this twisty and turny discussion. Regarding whether Rarity equals Feminism - there are a few ways one could approach this. So what sticky wicket do I jump into first hmm? Do I tackle it via authorial intent, plausible audience evaluation and interpretation, or do I approach this through my own lens exclusively. Well, since I love a good buffet as much as anyone, I choose all three.


Disclaimer: by reading the below you understand that I will not engage discussion of SJW, nor will any of my opinions be derived from said movement. Quite frankly, I have grown tired of that discussing it.  In fact, with the notable exception of the lovely woman who shares my bed and hogs my comforter, I doubt I will ever engage that topic at all. It has a tendency to give me heartburn.


A Pearl Pone is Born (Authorial Intent)


So, yeah … back to the question at hand: The question of Rarity and feminism.  Lets start at Authorial Intent - Lauren Faust. It’s no secret that she is a feminist herself. She bemoaned the lack of quality animation available to girls for years, and with My Little Pony she was able to set out to create a show that would stand as a beacon in the dearth of female centric programming in the animated landscape. There was a few snags along the way. Lauren was advised that she was to create a character who would be the standard stereotype in many shows already aimed at the younger female demographic. The elementary school equivalent of Carrie Bradshaw if I may be so freaking bold.

 

In my minds eye I picture Lauren in front of a monstrous bag of cash with eyes and a mouth. For whimsical reasons it also has the dollar sign symbol seen in older cartoons and sounds like Jabba the Hutt.


“You will create a character who likes fashion and dresses and girly things,” said the Hasbro the talking money bag.

 

“But this would not fit within my vision for the show. I want to create strong female characters that are familiar yet dynamic. That girls can identify with, but also imprint on. You can’t be serious. How can I fulfill my artist vision by being saddled with the very character I am trying to avoid,” Lauren responded


At this moment the gas lighted chamber echoed with the haunting laugh of a thousand Jabba’s.


“Avoid? Lauren, I can’t make exceptions. What if everyone who created ads for me dropped their cargo at the first sign of an artistic tendencies? There will be no bargain, young Animator. I shall enjoy watching you make me mountains of money. Now … I must feed on cash ... make me a girly Pony!”

 

So Faust, being a sneaky sneaky creator not willing to give up on her dream to see a proper quality product created for girls, gave us Rarity. However, she took on Hasbro’s directive and created a character that while on the surface fit the bill of a diva fashionista, winds up with a few surprises.

 

Rarity loves her fashion, sure enough. But she isn’t a shopper. She designs dresses. Lauren didn’t stop there though. Most of the characters don’t wear clothes, right? Clothing is not a functional item in Equestria. It loses in analogous property of art in functional and utilitarian need in our real world. Her chosen artistic medium begins to become more akin to non functional … gasp … art. Yep. Rarity is a designer of an art form more in common with Monet than Dior. It’s more like wearable paintings. :D


And there was more. Rarity is a business woman. She owns and sleeps in her own shop. She deals with real small business world situations like client satisfaction, difficult orders, deadlines, opportunity cost, unreasonable demands, need for approval, fear of failure, etc. Lauren created a model of feminism, and creativity in this erstwhile element of inspiration. She also imbued the character with passion and emotional responses that help resonate with children who would likely identify with her ‘drama queen’ moments.  


The mold was broken, and Lauren Faust, the owner of Authorial Intent here, created Rarity as a positive female role model. When asked what her favorite moment in the series was, she pointed to Suited For Success. So yes, Faust intended that the show (and Rarity in particular) should function as an elevated form of girls entertainment with characters that act as feminist avatars, without catering just to females. She created passable realistic (though exaggerated) personas.  

 


 

They said I could be anything I wanted - So I chose Fabulosity (My Interpretation)


Dear Princess Celestia,


    The other day I adjusted my inward eye to contemplate your world and the individuals who inhabit it. I discovered three prominent items that I feel the need to burden you with. The first is that property insurance rates are freaking outrageous in Ponyville. Now I know that every few weeks there is some crazy infestation, natural disaster, or silly villain who feels the need to test the concepts of city planning, but this isn’t Sim City. Can we have a little price control over here please? Secondly, can you tell me who does your stained glass windows? That guy is fast as Tartarus! I would love to hire him. Finally, I would like to talk about one of your subjects. Namely the Element of Generosity herself, Rarity.


    I love that Pone (by the way, is ‘pone’ a derogatory term in your society, because if so I know a lot of hairless monkey boys who need to start writing apology letters). Yep she freaking rocks. Now, I when I say love, I mean the way that a scientist loves seeing the Milky Way in the clear skies of Montana in the late spring. Yeah, that kind of love. Each time I turn on the show, I find myself smiling ear to bloody ear when she is on. Her phrasing, her creativity, unbridled generosity (see what I did there … I’m clever I am), magnanimity, her complex dichotomy between independence and needing social acknowledgment, the feverish pace in which she works under duress, the fact that she is not afraid to emote and let her passion flow (the hallmark of many a genius), the way that she learns through adversity always preserving even if failure is imminent. Oh, and that voice and set of pipes. Damn it man.


    It wasn’t always that way though Princess. There was a time about three and a half years ago that I quite dismissed her.  I dismissed Rarity as nothing more than a gag and a walking stereotype; typical. It was years before I gave your world another shot. Many of her aspects I missed before slowly crept up on me. By the time she went to Manehattan she quickly became Best Pony all the way. The rising complexity in her stories, her singing, her humor, all of the layers in this character … let’s just say that I finally understood. She is reminiscent of a few classical literary figures from my world which I love deeply. Oh yeah … did I mention her off the charts fabulosity. Y U NO HIRE HER?


    There is one other thing, a small thing really, you see in my world my daughters grew up with very few fully realized female characters. I appreciate that your world is populated with many positive feminine role models. From the studious Twilight Sparkle, to the exhaustingly hardworking family figure in Applejack, they are all fully realized aspects any child would embrace, and I wish deeply that my two daughters were younger when they first saw the series back in 2011. Rarity may be the one that some humans gravitate to when they talk about femininity and equality, but the truth is that many of your subjects embody this aspect equally as well.


    In closing, keep up the good work, oh … and if you could clear up a question about your relationship between Discord and you I would greatly appreciate it, as would many Fluttershy fans.


Yours Sincerely,


~Jeric

 


   

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man (Your Interpretation)


Goofy time is over. Pony discussion amidst real world issues is tantamount to G8 Summits. First, I am going to sum up the nonsense floating above in one crazy ass sentence. Lauren Faust, a feminist, created good cartoons for girls that she would have liked to see - I love the characters for their general depth and recognize many of the them as having virtues that I would agree are positive female roles (and general role models) Rarity is not special in this respect.


So, should you disagree with me - I will concede that. It may not match Authorial intent, and may not be my interpretation, but it is an acceptable one. Art is completed by the audience after all (not by an analyst or a teacher either). Should you agree with me and say that the characters in general or just damn good and are indeed great feminine role models, well hell … /)

 

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