Are ponies the real villains of MLP?

[ManaMinori 4,145]

Are ponies the real villains of the show? It paints itself as a candy colored realm of magic and friendship, but is it really? The scary thing about pony society is that if you don’t fit within their version of the mold, then you get banished, turned to stone, or outright destroyed. You can’t be different, unless its within their standards. If you aren’t, then you don’t fit. It’s all too easy for ponies to alter someone else’s mind, or natural biological dietary needs, which we’ve seen many times before, in addition to that. The Changelings were accepted, only after they were transformed. So was Discord, Sunset Shimmer, Nightmare Moon, after they were forcibly blasted and had their thoughts altered through no will of their own. Knowing this, is Friendship really magic? How does the fandom feel about this, and underneath it all, the ponies being the true villains?

 

[K.Rool Addict 718]

Yes the ponies are deranged sociopaths

^Replace "town" with continent lol

 

I'm not even joking, btw. Just look at how they treat poor Spikey-wikey; 'tis criminal Q.Q

[Sassy Sweet 33]

Hooray for another fellow fatalist! 

 I found myself a little disturbed with King Sombra's FIENDship is Magic and the entire Seige of the Crystal Empire arc.  I mean, like you brought up, if you don't fit into their mold, they break you for the "betterment of society" kind of way.  If Princess Amore would just have been honest with Sombra and tried to help him rather than leaving him to his own devices... I'd be pretty pissed and go on a rampage too.  It set a whole series of events in motion that seemed to backfire.  Then you have Radiant Hope, who even though she was misguided in her intentions, was doing everything she could for a friend and the Mane 6 seemed to hate her for it. 

[cmarston1 5,958]

Discord was warping all of reality into something similar to (if a lesser version of) Weirdmageddon, so it makes sense that he would have to be stopped.

Also by blocking out the sun and causing eternal night, Nightmare Moon would have unintentionally allowed the entire planet to freeze, and the destruction of crops and other food sources, which in turn would have killed everyone on the entire planet.

And Sunset Shimmer literally turned into a demon, so of course she had to be stopped and had the elements of harmony be used to turn her back to normal.

So, in the end, I think you are just making a mountain out of a molehill here.

[Black Sabbath 2,486]

I agree 100% with you. I mean, how dare ponies try to stop people from using magic artifacts to create an army of mindless slaves so they can take over the world? And what kind of heartless monsters would prevent an army from invading their country so that they can imprison the ponies and feed on their emotions?   

And they won't even allow people to bring eternal night or treat reality as their own personal playground. I don't even know how they can sleep at night. 

[GrimGrimoire 4,973]

16 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

How does the fandom feel about this, and underneath it all, the ponies being the true villains?

 

I can't speak for anyone else.. but I feel pretty damn good about it. I mean who knew Villainy was magic? Not me!

[Jeric 46,848]

16 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

Are ponies the real villains of the show?

No

16 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

It paints itself as a candy colored realm of magic and friendship, but is it really?

It is a show, shows don't paint. Just like clothes don't speak. There is magic throughout Equestria. There is friendship as well, though some areas have more than others.

16 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

You can’t be different, unless its within their standards.

Define what their standards are for the sake of this discussion. Please be as complete as possible so that we can properly run a analysis. Without properly setting what you are talking about when you discuss standards, it really cannot be a productive conversation. I would rather not enter the conversation without that illuminated, mostly because I am scared of the dark, but also because I could inadvertently approach it from a different definition of what Pony standards are. Torch pls. 

16 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

The Changelings were accepted, only after they were transformed.

Is this true though? Could there be a moment in the canon of the show that could possible disprove that assumption, and if so how do we reconcile that with your above statement? How would you factor in the resolution of These Times are a Changeling to the assertion you have made?

16 hours ago, Nightmare Muffin said:

How does the fandom feel about this, and underneath it all, the ponies being the true villains?

Hm. I don't see a strong case built that supports your conclusion. There is one character that would possibly have helped your case be made, however I suspect that your bias against the character prevented you from included her from any evidence (not that you really gave much supporting evidence in the narrative - just a series of assertions). There was an actual two part episode that contrasts different ideologies surrounding friendships. A character whose approach was considered antagonistic, but may not have displayed any world-ending behaviors at the level of Tirek/Discord/Chrysalis/Nightmare Moon. 

 I wonder who that character could be?

 

 

 

[Goat-kun 2,527]

Every hero is somebody else's villain and vice versa. For instance: a vile person such as myself would undoubtedly consider them villains and they would undoubtedly consider me as a villain, but I would be regarded as a champion of justice by all those displaced and downtrodden mythological beasts. I'm greedy, I really like steaks, and I run Naya colors so it cannot be helped.

[Tiny Hoofs 200]

Nah, probably not. But I would like to see the relationship between Equestria and other nations like Saddle Arabia.

I've also wondered how other sapient species feel about ponies. Because the ponies and Celestia and Luna seem to control a lot of things in the world. How do donkeys feel about that, for instance? Even animals like cows and sheep seem to be able to talk. Most of the hoofed animals on this show seem to be sapient and capable of talking and yet some live on farms.

Are they happy living on farms? They seem to live in some symbiotic relationship; both exchanging services for each other. I think it would be cool to see some tensions between the ponies and other farm animals, like cows and sheep for instance. It could make for a good episode.

I think we've already seen a bit of that theme  before with the buffalo, yaks and the deer in the comics.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Tiny Hoofs

[Roughshod 719]

Being strong and defending oneself and one's culture doesn't constitute villainy in my view. It seems a lot closer to heroism if you ask me. 

[Nightfall Veilwing 1,133]

In my opinion, the show's philosophy of "friendship is magic" is based on our fear of loneliness and vulnerability of the real world's unforgiving and and unpredictable atmosphere. In the show, the idea of friendship is executed more like a religion than what friendship is supposed to be: an emotional crutch. The ponies seem to believe that you're a bad person if you're not friends with literally everypony within your sight's range. The goal of these ponies appear to be make as many friends as possible, not because friendship is a nice thing to have, but a way to control others' harmful impulses so that their guards will be lowered and you don't have to worry about threats and dangers that they could pose to you. Friendship, in the show's definition, is a comfort zone that demands you stay within at all costs, and making more friendship is a survival mechanism that strengthens is in order to provide the illusion of security against the many threats, dangers, and the unknowns of the real world that's beyond our comfort zone.

All of this may seem like friendship is a selfish thing, but it's really a survival mechanism that shows that we're not alone, not just in the world around us, but in the problems that every one us have in our lives. Friendship is a way for us to share our ideas and dreams with others, and, in turn, can help us learn understand more about ourselves and make us a better person than before. It's all in the name of survival and evolving fore the future.

That's my take on it.

Edited June 18, 2017 by Millennium Shadow

[Pinkie_Pi 348]

Ok, let us look at the episode Over a Barrel.  The ponies move into the Buffalo's sacred, ancestral land.  They plant their apple trees. Then they get offended when the Buffalo are angry.  The episode comes to a climax of "war," I know no-one truly gets hurt, but that's the sugar-coated reality of what happens. In the end, what do the Buffalo get?  Limited access to their land and some pie.  Pretty shady dealing on the ponies side, that's what I call a bad trade.

I am 3/4 Native American.  I had a few small issues with this episode, but not enough to get angry and start a big stink.  I thought the Native Buffalo could have been portrayed better, but then again Pinkie Pie busting out in her saloon girl dress, singing and dancing a can-can dance, made up for most of it. Now, looking back, the ponies definitely shafted the Natives.

[heavens-champion 1,903]

On 6/18/2017 at 2:09 PM, Pinkie_Pi said:

Ok, let us look at the episode Over a Barrel.  The ponies move into the Buffalo's sacred, ancestral land.  They plant their apple trees. Then they get offended when the Buffalo are angry.  The episode comes to a climax of "war," I know no-one truly gets hurt, but that's the sugar-coated reality of what happens. In the end, what do the Buffalo get?  Limited access to their land and some pie.  Pretty shady dealing on the ponies side, that's what I call a bad trade.

I am 3/4 Native American.  I had a few small issues with this episode, but not enough to get angry and start a big stink.  I thought the Native Buffalo could have been portrayed better, but then again Pinkie Pie busting out in her saloon girl dress, singing and dancing a can-can dance, made up for most of it. Now, looking back, the ponies definitely shafted the Natives.

So, basically, the ponies should have just left... Who's shafting whom now?

Edited June 25, 2017 by heavens-champion

[heavens-champion 1,903]

You are clearly looking too far into this. Besides, it's pretty obvious that eternal chaos is a bad thing.

Besides, I would want Chrysalis's head on a plate for kidnapping Twilight and company... somehow.

Edited June 25, 2017 by heavens-champion

[pteraptor 7]

if ponies are evil, then life unnecessary to pony survivall would go extinct, as the ponies are cornerstones in the biosphere

[Castle Bleck 19,294]

On 4/29/2017 at 4:12 AM, Sassy Sweet said:

Then you have Radiant Hope, who even though she was misguided in her intentions, was doing everything she could for a friend and the Mane 6 seemed to hate her for it. 

 

Last I checked, they really didn't; they were just shocked at her.

 

The only ones who "seem{ed} hate her" are the misaimed Bronies who ironically sympathize with Chrysalis despite her being far worse.

Edited June 23, 2017 by A.V.

[Hierok 11,831]

On 2017-4-29 at 3:39 PM, cmarston1 said:

Discord was warping all of reality into something similar to (if a lesser version of) Weirdmageddon, so it makes sense that he would have to be stopped.

Also by blocking out the sun and causing eternal night, Nightmare Moon would have unintentionally allowed the entire planet to freeze, and the destruction of crops and other food sources, which in turn would have killed everyone on the entire planet.

And Sunset Shimmer literally turned into a demon, so of course she had to be stopped and had the elements of harmony be used to turn her back to normal.

So, in the end, I think you are just making a mountain out of a molehill here.

But maybe this is because they weren't allowed to live the life they liked to live.  I think it is not entirely their fault.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Hierok
Live or life? I don't know!

[Goat-kun 2,527]

48 minutes ago, A.V. said:

 

Last I checked, they really didn't; they were just shocked at her.

 

The only ones who "seem{ed} hate her" are the misaimed Bronies who ironically sympathize with Chrysalis despite her being far worse.

Whoa, easy there champ! Like and sympathize are not the same thing.

 

Hating Radiant Hope would be an overstatement. She is so very shit I've already forgotten how she even looks like. Does one hate a squished cockroach that got stuck to one's foot? Scrape it off and move on.

[Castle Bleck 19,294]

22 minutes ago, Goat-kun said:

Hating Radiant Hope would be an overstatement. She is so very shit I've already forgotten how she even looks like. Does one hate a squished cockroach that got stuck to one's foot? Scrape it off and move on.

 

 

Exactly my point.

 

That said, the only thing I agree with said haters on is that Jeremy Whitley shouldn't have compared her to Twilight like he did.

[General Solar Magus 469]

No they are not the villains.

Just because they don't accept something does not mean they are evil. It means that they stand for something that is opposed to the things they don't accept. Not accepting evil is not just okay, it's be obvious.

If they don't want to live in Nightmares moons eternal night or Discords chaotic world, they "will" say no. You shouldn't be worried about sparing the feelings of something trying to ruin your way of life.

Standing up for what you believe in is not evil, it's means that you care about something and won't just let the villains walk in and do what they want because you don't care about anything.

I'm this case, the ponies of Equestria stand for friendship, unity, kindness, and love. How is it evil or in any way villain like to stand for that?

 

.... and their thoughts were not altered. Nightmare Moon was angry and confused and returned to her true kind self (Luna) after beaten. Sunset Shimmer was revengeful and also angry and confused. Lastly, Discord intentionally chose to join them and could have easily vanished after they set him free or attacked again, but he chose not to to see what would happen (Discord has described himself as "evolved" and has proven to be so on several occasions if you noticed it [such as dropping the ponies hints about the battle with Tirek by making marks in their journel]. A being as evolved as him would never allow brainwashing to even touch him [it would be "below" him]).

[Goat-kun 2,527]

On 23. 6. 2017 at 7:16 PM, A.V. said:

Exactly my point.

That said, the only thing I agree with said haters on is that Jeremy Whitley shouldn't have compared her to Twilight like he did.

Some among our hateful ranks do behave like Bat Nips Junior, but at least those guys suck in their leisure time. Silly Jeremy Whitley sucks at his job.

[heavens-champion 1,903]

On 6/23/2017 at 1:16 PM, A.V. said:

 

 

Exactly my point.

 

That said, the only thing I agree with said haters on is that Jeremy Whitley shouldn't have compared her to Twilight like he did.

Yeah. He made it sound like Twilight was his least favorite character or something.

[heavens-champion 1,903]

14 hours ago, Goat-kun said:

Some among our hateful ranks do behave like Bat Nips Junior, but at least those guys suck in their leisure time. Silly Jeremy Whitley sucks at his job.

 

He didn't even think to have Rabia taunt Twilight by sarcastically thanking her for making their release possible, or to have Iron Will, the Flim Flam Brothers, and Lightning Dust redeem themselves. What a waste of perfectly good plot points.

Edited June 25, 2017 by heavens-champion

[Castle Bleck 19,294]

1 hour ago, heavens-champion said:

He didn't even think to have Rabia taunt Twilight by sarcastically thanking her for making their release possible,

 

Instead:

 

Twilight & Cadance: "Hey, instead of just destroying us here and now to be safe, why not do it via unnecessarily convoluted method in this suspiciously specific area?"

 

Rabia: "Why, that sounds... epically evil and not at all a trap, even though I'm supposed to be the grand puppetmaster over everything Crystal Empire-related since day 1 -- you've got a deal!"

 

Sombra:

"And this b***h is supposed to have been cunning enough to string even me, the no-nonsense trapmaster from the show, along for 1,000+ years?! That's it -- I'm reforming and getting as far away as possible from this dunce!"

 

Quote

or to have Iron Will, the Flim Flam Brothers, and Lightning Dust redeem themselves.

 

Should've just been the Changelings.

 

They're all Hope needed, and Chrysalis was the only relevant secondary villain.

Edited June 25, 2017 by A.V.

[AlbaTross 1,586]

In a sense, yes.  I've been overanalyzing the show and its spinoff media, and I do think there's evidence that ponies are oppressing other species, and no I'm not talking about banishing legit threats to the realm as there is a strong case that the princesses were justified there.  I'm talking about how dragons have to be mindful of where they're located in relation to ponies.  How pony towns seem to be pristine and well taken care of but Griffonstone, which must be within Equestria's borders to be featured on the Cutie Map, is a literal ghetto.  I also noticed that griffons often represent various pony towns as athletes in the Equestria Games.

The Good, the Bad and the Ponies is a terrible two-parter in the comics IMHO, but I have to wonder if Longhorn isn't just trying to get ahold of the town so ponies and cattles can live together in harmony.  If there are cows who don't typically enter Ponyville and presumably live in a large barn just outside of town, are they the source of milk for the town?  If so, do other towns have a similar arrangement?  Where does that leave bulls?  They would only be good for knocking up cows and not many are needed for that, nor would they be needed more than just periodically.  So, are bulls just left to wander and figure out their own way to survive?  If so then maybe they don't ride through towns demanding produce to create chaos, but because they can't integrate into any pony society and get a job in order to put food on the table in a more socially acceptable manner.

Yes, ponies generally come across as kindhearted and sympathetic, but there may be a dark secret the audience isn't let in on.  Has anyone ever considered that various stories in the FiM universe are presented through the lens of ponies or someone like Spike who's sympathetic to them?  I don't actually think most ponies have malice in their hearts.  They're probably just willfully ignorant like a lot of humans are (I'm resisting the urge to make a reference to supporters of a certain country's leader).  Out of sight, out of mind.  

The princesses probably have a lot of dirt we don't know about, but average ponies probably just go about their lives, possibly knowing deep down that things aren't always as they seem, especially when it comes to relations to other races or other nations.  As long as they can go about their lives knowing the princesses are looking out for ponykind, they're content.  Heck, most ponies probably don't even interact with other races on a regular basis.  I don't see a lot of species diversity in Canterlot or Manehattan, and Cloudsdale is only open to Pegasi by design.  Well...technically Griffons too, but aside from Gilda in a flashback, I don't recall seeing any Griffons around there.