S07:E25+E26 - Shadow Play

[BlinkZ 1,151]

First episode was liek "hmm yeah opne the prison let the bad guy out no duh"
A litte miffed how i hae to read a few comcis now to know what hte hell going on. both this season fnile an MLP movie. GRRR habro do not pull a Marvel connected universe on us..please don''t

I was thinking "wait didn't the elements kind of stop thsoe plumber seeds from taking over. I mean assuming Discord can't  just snap his fingers na make them go away that is.

AFter watching: yeah, all the elements of mlp come together pretty well

Edited October 31, 2017 by BlinkZ

[Carolina 212]

I mostly liked the finale, although the constant focus on "look how right Starlight Glimmer is!!!" did get a bit heavy-handed. I wish we had gotten to see more from the Pillars as individuals. I liked Mist Mane and Meadowbrook and Starswirl, despite his negative attitude, was interesting. Flash Magnus, on the other hand, just seemed like a male Rainbow Dash and Rockhoof barely said anything at all. Sonambula's accent annoyed me. 

Anyway, I'm hoping next season, each of the Pillars gets some focus with his/her respective Mane 6. Maybe Starswirl can tell Twilight about his history with the Royal Sisters, or Pinkie Pie and Sonambula can adventure with Daring Do, or Rarity can travel with Mist Mane to learn more about the Eastern Unicorns, or AJ can introduce Apple Bloom to Rockhoof, or Rainbow, Spike and Flash Magnus could go back to the Dragon Lands, or Fluttershy and Meadowbrook can cure an epidemic together. Lots of good potential ways to flesh out these currently pretty flat characters.

[Awkward Segway 317]

Plot hole: If the Pillars used their items to seal the Pony of Shadows in limbo, then why were they all found in the places that their stories took place in? In particular, why was Somnambula's blindfold in the pit of slime in the pyramid? Did someone find it at Pone Henge, bring it back to the pyramind, and throw it in there? And if so, why?

Edited November 1, 2017 by Awkward Segway

[KH7672 1,604]

7 hours ago, Awkward Segway said:

Plot hole: If the Pillars used their items to seal the Pony of Shadows in limbo, then why were they all found in the places that their stories took place in? In particular, why was Somnambula's blindfold in the pit of slime in the pyramid? Did someone find it at Pone Henge, bring it back to the pyramind, and throw it in there? And if so, why?

Considering the pillars knew they were going to be sacrificing themselves, there is no doubt they said goodbyes to their friends and families and told them where they were going. Most likely those ponies came and retrieved the items for commemorative purposes. Hence why Rockhoof's was in a shrine, Mistmane's was in her old village, and Cattail had Meadowbrook's. The curious ones are Flash's and Somnambula's. Garble did say he found the shield in the desert, possibly there was a shrine there too just now completely covered in sand over the 1000+ years. And Somnambula....yeah you got me that is ridiculous, but hey hard to say it's impossible when you have so many unaccounted years in between.

My headcanon: It was brought back to the town of Somnambula and put on display, but many, many, many years later, inspired by the legend, some trouble making foal took the blindfold and tried to replicate the stunt. Unfortunately the bridge was not as sturdy and began to break while out in the middle so the foal throws the blindfold off and runs back to safety as the bridge collaspes and the blindfold flutters down gently and sinks into the green slime.

Edited November 2, 2017 by KH7672

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

"The Darkness" is the most interesting villain concept this show has ever had. It feels like the main antagonist of the shows entire lore. I hope it comes back.

[Truffles 2,033]

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

To start, what's the urgency of figuring out the mystery of what happened to Star Swirl, other than Twilight's being impatient and excited? Is that really all that driving the Mane Seven and Sunburst (and maybe Starlight) to study for three days straight?

I believe so. Twilight is a princess, after all, with some amount of authority over them as we briefly saw in the S4 opener. And knowing her past fangasming over Starswirl, I can see how she's push all her friends to release him and the others ASAP under the guise of freeing them from whatever terrible things she's imagining might be happening to them in Limbo. The more interesting question, however, is why didn't the other princesses step in and tell her to take a step back and slow down? Even if they didn't know anything directly about what the Pillars were doing in the past to trap Stygian until the book was revealed, you would think they would be wise enough and know the 6 of them well enough to know freeing them would be dangerous.

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

First, Twilight says that Starlight used one of Star Swirl's spells to open portals through time, and if Star Swirl were there, he could have stopped it. But could he have, really? Is it necessarily the case that,

Yeah, I agree - probably not. In the S5 finale, Twilight didn't suspect anything was going on until just before Starlight went back in time. Unless she's thinking he could have closed the portal remotely from his version of the timeline - presuming that timeline still existed. I suppose Pinkie showing up after Twilight and Spike got pulled through might lend credence to that theory.

But if that was the case, then Twilight, Spike, and Starlight would be trapped forever in the alternate timelines or the past where Rainbow did the Rainboom. I'm not sure that's something Twilight would consider a positive outcome due to Starswirl being present. I guess if it was the past, Twi and Spike could live as older twin siblings to their younger counterparts. XD

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Furthermore, once they're brought back, they'll presumably resume the aging process and die sooner or later.

Shhh, Twilight's secret plan is to turn all of them into Alicorns. 

Though I don't prescribe to the theory that Twilight is an immortal alicorn, so it probably doesn't matter.

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

If time doesn't pass in limbo, then I don't see how the Pillars could be suffering or feel trapped or anything like that. Whenever they exit limbo, wouldn't they not have any awareness or recollection of being in limbo, since it would just feel as though no time had passed since they first entered limbo?

The story doesn't say whether time is completely frozen and the 1000 years feels like an instant to them, or whether they are aware of their surroundings but don't age or require sustenance. I guess the latter case is what Sunburst was worried about. Having to spend 1000 years, even with a group of 7, with nothing to do but talk with one another would get boring pretty fast and would feel like a prison. Of course, if that was the case then you'd think they would have talked it out with Stygian/TPoS during that time and figured out what was really bothering him, making the danger of his release irrelevant. I suppose it's possible TPoS was sent off to another part of Limbo so they couldn't communicate, but it seems likely they would bump into one another if they could move about in there.

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

The holographic depiction of the Pillars trapping the Pony of Shadows (and themselves) in limbo shows them using their special artifacts to do so, with those objects then falling to the ground after they go to limbo. Is that supposed to be like a recording of the actual event? In other words, is that what actually happened? It would seem so. But then, that implies that the Pillars carried their special artifacts with them, and that their objects would have all been at Ponehenge, since they fell to the ground in the holographic depiction. So then how did their special artifacts get scattered across Equestria?

The answer to the hologram is "yes", and as @KH7672 said, someone probably found the artifacts sitting there and moved them. It could have been friends or family members, though I feel like the Pillars would have even kept their plan secret to their loved ones to avoid the spell getting undone. It's more likely whoever found the artifacts pawned them off. In some cases where the artifact was recognized, it was enshrined (like the shovel and flower) and the others were simply passed around from owner to owner or discarded.

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

The location of Somnambula's blindfold is particularly problematic. How did the blindfold come to be stuck in the "drain" of the pit of green slime? That would almost suggest that the blindfold was simply discarded right after it was removed when Somnambula rescued Prince Hisan. But that would contradict the holographic depiction of the blindfold being used by Somnambula at Ponehenge.

This is a bit of a problem. I guess due to the knowledge that all of the artifacts had to be at Ponehenge for the ritual to work, Somnambula must have retrieved the blindfold after defeating the sphinx, even if it wasn't shown. It was just a flashback from a narration, so it's not that hard to accept the pony telling the story simply didn't reveal that detail. As for how it got into the drain (it does seem like Haber had a brain fart and assumed it was dropped into the pit and forgot it had to be at the site) I can come up with a retcon to explain it, though it's not particularly satisfying: Like some of the other artifacts, someone in the mold of Flim or Flam recognized the scarf and used it as part of their "Somnambula Experience"™ attraction in the town, allowing patrons to do the challenge with the blindfold worn by Somnambula herself. One of them accidentally lost it in the pit where it was stuck in the drain.  Like I said, not really satisfying but probably a good enough explanation as anything. 

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

The gardens that Rarity visited to retrieve Mistmane's flower didn't look as though they could be fixed with a few seconds of pruning; besides the sheer amount of overgrowth and disrepair, a good number of the plants were brown.

Yeah, this was a bit of a stretch. I guess they had to move the plot along so they took a shortcut. It seems like they could have shown her starting the redecorating and then switch to the next artifact, returning later to show her completing the task. That would have been a lot more believable.

Then again, maybe she still has latent superpowers left over from the Inspiration Manifestation spell? 

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

So Garble's idea of "trash talking" Spike right before the race is to give him a thumbs down and blow a raspberry? Wow, how intimidating.

It's interesting Rainbow was not intimidated by the other dragons like she was at the end of "Dragon Quest" where she chose to run away with the others with a worried look on her face instead of staying and fighting them off. I guess Spike must have told her the story of what happened during "Gauntlet of Fire" and she knows Garble is really more bark than bite. Or that she could fly rings around him if she really had to.

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

But after seeing Rainbow and Spike flying off with the shield, why wouldn't Garble give chase? It's not as though Rainbow was flying away super quickly at that time, although she could surely outfly Garble if she needed to.

It would have been cool if he had and we saw her kick into high gear to get away, but I guess the story was again pressed for time and having him stay in place and get dissed by his buddy was more efficient.

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Pinkie just hops out of the deep diving suit and stands on the glowing green slime, and allows the slime-soaked blindfold to smack her in the face as she holds it in her mouth.

Pinkie's not going to let a little radioactivity get in the way of helping her friends? 

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

It feels contrived and unsatisfying that nobody else is willing or able to consider what the appropriate means of stopping the Pony of Shadows should be, just so that Starlight can be inevitably proven right once again.

Agreed. I stated in other comments the episode needed to show TPoS actually doing some pretty bad stuff rather than just talking a good game about being threatening. It would have made the Mane & Crested 7's doubts about Starlight's ideas that the Map was trying to tell them it was a friendship problem and not a defeat-the-bad-guy problem. Or at least, like you suggested, spend some time having them have a discussion about it but eventually coming to the conclusion banishment was the best approach. It seemed like they all pretty much deferred to the Pillars and that was that.

On 10/28/2017 at 7:41 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

Twilight says to Sunburst "I can't believe I'm gonna meet Star Swirl the Bearded! You know, outside of my dreams", while giving a devious smirk. Uh, is Sunburst really interested in what Twilight dreams about? That might be too much information there.

Yeah..... 

 

On 10/30/2017 at 4:22 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

Uh, let's see...I was also thrilled that they finally made it canon that Starswirl was the Sisters' teacher.  That has only been in the Journal, and I am ecstatic to have that be made official.

As am I. Maybe now that he's back with an official presence, we'll get an episode with a flashback of him teaching the two princesses back in the day? Seeing them in their younger years (and maybe their parents?) and how they got along with one another in the actual show would be a real treat.

[Shadow the First 101]

Unknowingly, I wrote my username as Pony_Of_Shadows before changing it.

 

That was before I saw these two episodes.

[Music Chart Fan 819]

4 hours ago, Truffles said:

The story doesn't say whether time is completely frozen and the 1000 years feels like an instant to them, or whether they are aware of their surroundings but don't age or require sustenance. I guess the latter case is what Sunburst was worried about. Having to spend 1000 years, even with a group of 7, with nothing to do but talk with one another would get boring pretty fast and would feel like a prison. Of course, if that was the case then you'd think they would have talked it out with Stygian/TPoS during that time and figured out what was really bothering him, making the danger of his release irrelevant. I suppose it's possible TPoS was sent off to another part of Limbo so they couldn't communicate, but it seems likely they would bump into one another if they could move about in there.

Yeah, I guess the episode isn't clear about what being in limbo entails. Your description of it reminds me of the Spongebob episode "SB-129" where Squidward breaks the time machine and ends up "nowhere", a pure white space that loops around on itself. And I can imagine being trapped in that kind of state, especially for 1000 years, would be torturous. People can literally go insane from sensory deprivation, and I imagine any possible social interaction with the other Pillars would eventually become meaningless, as there would be nothing further occurring to interact about. You make a good point, too, that if the Pony of Shadows were there with them, then why not talk to him and find out what he was doing, given the lack of other stimulation for 1000 years?

I do wonder whether Twilight knew what limbo consists of. She researched enough to know that the Pillars and the Pony of Shadows were sent to it, and she says "That's the thing about limbo. It isn't one place or another. It's in between, so time stands still. If we can pull them out, it'll be like they never left. I actually built another model to demonstrate—" before being cut off. Would Twilight's model have demonstrated what limbo was like, before she was interrupted? If the Pillars were trapped in limbo in a state of awareness, such that they would be suffering, that would seem like a pretty powerful motivating factor that Twilight would want to tell everyone else. Were all of them already fully cooperating, and so Twilight just didn't bother mentioning that? The other thing is that the Pillars, upon emerging from limbo, don't appear to have suffered serious psychic damage, which we might expect if they were in limbo in a state of awareness and sensory deprivation for 1000 years.

Or if it's unknown what being in limbo is like, I could imagine the Pillars being asked about it sooner or later - if not by one of the main gang, then by someone else that the Pillars end up interacting with. After all, the Pillars might have to explain to others where they came from and why they don't know anything about the current state of Equestria or what's happened over the last 1000 years.

[Singe 2,111]

This should have been a three parter with one episode dedicated solely to the past of the start of the Pillars coming together until the final confrontation with the Shadow Pony.

[Shadow the First 101]

9 hours ago, Singe said:

This should have been a three parter with one episode dedicated solely to the past of the start of the Pillars coming together until the final confrontation with the Shadow Pony.

I like your idea, but Hasbro has never pulled out a plot line for that long and probably never will.

[BritishBrony2012 805]

Enjoyed this finale, good to see Star Swirl the Bearded but sad he was being harsh with Twilight, other ponies got on well with their idols but with Twilight and Star Swirl is different. There a say 'Never met your hero'. At the end, Star Swirl give Twilight credit, also on next season he get on well with Twilight. Also Starlight is great.

[Sh Pie 65]

This was a good season finale featuring the return of the Elements and introduction of legendary Starswirl The Bearded. Season 6 and 7 feel like one season expanded in to two if you notice that there was no high stakes premiere like usual and no climactic Mane 6 adventure last time. Not that I mind since the majority of MLP is standalone plots.

I didn't expect those guys from the campfire stories, Somnambula and Meadowbrook to be important characters in the ancient lore of Equestria. The pillars are like the original Mane 6 and Stygian (which sounds more like an ice themed name than darkness) is Spike. His motivation is very similar to Spike's sidekick problem in Season 4 episode 6. He also turns corrupted as the Pony of Shadows like Adult Spike in Season 2 episode 10.

Starswirl is out of the loop after 1000 years hibernation in limbo. Pinkie fills him in on all the strongest villains they defeated from Nightmare Moon to Starlight.

Having Starlight be the one to know the best solution was good development for her and proved that having a former villain's perspective on villains and their capacity for redemption is useful. She even figured out that the Cutie Map wouldn't have led them to breaking the seal unless there was a good reason involving a friendship problem.

Season 5 finale is still my favorite and Tirek the most intimidating villain. Pony of Shadows didn't really do anything but I guess it was justified due to the reduction of dark corners in Equestria throughout the millennium. His return only served as means to solve the friendship problem and bring the pillars back.

[takai 1,060]

Hate to say it, but I was not impressed with this finale. Probably one of the worst in my opinion.The biggest thing I took away from this is that the Dazzlings are officially canon to the TV series. It still blows my mind.

My biggest issue with this is that there were way too many convenient happenings. MLP has always one a pretty great job of making sure things don't feel contrived, but this had way too many for me not to notice. Next is how heavy they tried to lay on Starlight's usefulness. She was the only one able to read the poorly written ponish? Really? And she was the only one to think that Friendship may be the answer? I understand Twilight was probably starstruck seeing Starswirl, but what about the other girls? WE GET IT WRITERS, YOU WANT TO FEEL LIKE STARLIGHT IS USEFUL. I'm really ready for her to be written out of the show, or at least be a background character.

Let's be real, this villain was a discount Nightmare Moon, plain and simple. They didn't have to banish her, they just cleansed her of the darkness that took her over.

I feel little off now that Starswirl is back. I could careless about the other 5 as they don't really have much impact on the world itself, but Starswirl is basically a game changer. I think I would've preferred him as a mysterious and wise figure from the past. He could drastically change the dynamic of the show, which is why I'm a little more than nervous of him being around.

I've always tried to avoid thinking this, but this finale really has me thinking that maybe the writing really has gone downhill since people like Lauren and M.A. Larson have gone?

[Dark Qiviut 22,393]

1 hour ago, takai said:

The biggest thing I took away from this is that the Dazzlings are officially canon to the TV series. It still blows my mind.

That's not all that impressive, honestly. EQG's canonicity to the main series was never in doubt. We just didn't need to watch it in order to fully get FIM.

1 hour ago, takai said:

She was the only one able to read the poorly written ponish? Really?

If it was really contrived, SG would state she knew words in Old Ponish that Twilight didn't. That doesn't happen. Starlight read his sloppy hornwriting decently because she's much worse at it.

1 hour ago, takai said:

And she was the only one to think that Friendship may be the answer? I understand Twilight was probably starstruck seeing Starswirl, but what about the other girls? WE GET IT WRITERS, YOU WANT TO FEEL LIKE STARLIGHT IS USEFUL.

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense for only SG to get it. The RM7 have their own experiences with facing villains. What was their most common method to defeat them? Blast them. Discord, NMM, Chrysalis (not by them), Sombra, Discord's vines, and Tirek were blasted with the physical Magic of Friendship. Starlight was never defeated; she was convinced to give friendship a second chance. As an ex-villain, she is more capable of looking at the conflict through the eyes of a villain than the others. She suspected there was more to the story than what the Pillars laid out. They explained their side, but SG was after the source of the conflict and Stygian's decision to the problem. Rather than a quick fix, she's after a real fix. Villains don't exist in a vacuum, and SG's a living example. Including the Cutie Map brings her into the story organically and humanizes the conflict.

1 hour ago, takai said:

I'm really ready for her to be written out of the show, or at least be a background character.

That'll be a royal mistake. Like it or not, she's a mane character now. If you have her there, use her and develop her. S7 did a fantastic job fixing problems from S6, including giving her more roles and writing more likeable scenarios for her. SP is a culmination of her growth over the last two seasons, especially this one. She earned her status and presence among the cast. Kicking her out of the show or reducing her role is DHX quitting on both the show and us as an audience (both kids and adults alike). It'd be the ultimate "jump the shark" moment to happen to the show.

1 hour ago, takai said:

Let's be real, this villain was a discount Nightmare Moon, plain and simple.

Correction. He's better than her. NMM's backstory was fascinating, but she's a stock villain. The PoS has a better backstory and is a better villain. Instead of leaving Stygian's backstory still in the premiere, they gradually build it in every scene, giving him and the Pillars more and more depth. The PoS is a bitter villain who fed on Stygian's anger, shame, and loneliness, and Stygian — basically a ponified Squib — welcomed him as an equal. Rather than blasting his bitterness and false sense of security (NMM) or destroying his old personality in favor of a fetishistic brainwashed version of him (Sunset), the episode validates his feelings by allowing him to fully explain what happened at Ponehenge, having both TS and SG talk to him as an equal, and pulling him out from the PoS's soul when his conscience plead for his escape.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Dark Qiviut

[bwrosas 252]

I finally got a chance to view (skim through) the 2parter, and I have to say that they did a great job with this one.  I did enjoy Twilight's Fangirling over getting a chance to meet Starswirl pony to pony.  I also liked how when they went to Ponhenge, that thanks to Starswirl's journal being set down on his pillar, that they got to see what exactly happened to Starswirl and the other Pillars in their final fight (at the time) with the Pony of Shadows.

Now some folks may not like the fact that Starlight was the one that basically was trying to be and ended up being the voice of reason in this, but I actually enjoyed her role here.  The reason being that, when Twilight and Sunburst were planning to free the Pillars from Limbo, that she was the one that pointed out that maybe they (The Pillars) had a reason for letting themselves be imprisoned in limbo with the Pony of Shadows, and that perhaps they shouldn't really mess with what was done.  Heck, she even twice (before the spell was cast to free the Pillars) used/mentioned her past example of using StarSwirl's Time-Travel spell (S5 Finale) and how that almost turned out badly as a way of getting her point across to Twilight and Sunburst.

She also was the one the realized that when The Cutie Map Called all the Mane 6's Cutie Marks at once, that it only does that when there's a Friendship Problem to be solved. And her reaction when Rainbow's calling the Cutie Map a Super-Duper Villain Tracker, after Rarity referenced the last time they were all called by the map, was to her village, I found hilarious.

And Yes, I did like the fact that despite feeling down because Twilight wasn't listening to her (due to Twilight trying to impress and prove herself to Starswirl), she still stuck up for Twilight in the end and used her past experience to help Twilight free Stygian from the Pony of Shadows.

 

Now speaking of that moment, after Twilight enters the POS and she meets Stygian, I loved how the Pillars all had the look of surprise and realization that they actually caused Stygian to be manipulated by the POS, because they didn't realize that he wasn't betraying them, all he was doing was trying to help them, by trying to make copies of their artifacts, so he could join them in their missions to protect Equestria. 

To me this was a good moment for the Pillars character development , because once they finally heard Stygian's reasoning for taking their artifacts, they all realized that they screwed up, by assuming something that wasn't true and not giving Stygian a chance to explain his reasoning.  And that everything that occurred 1000 years ago could've been avoided had they just listened and not assumed.

 

One thing I did really enjoy was when StarSwirl dismissed Twilight's plan (to trap the POS) at first, that the rest of the Mane 6 (finally having enough of his treatment of her at the time) stood up for her and explained to him that she never does anything half way when it comes to magic. Rainbow even mentioned her getting her wings, because she finished writing one of his spells. (Someone get a group screenshot of the Mane 6 from this scene)

 

And finally, Starswirl's interaction with Luna and Celestria at the end, I thought was well done and cute.

 

Overall, this was definitely a good Season Finale, and one I would highly recommend seeing again and again.  The animation was good, the Mane 6's , along with Starlight, Spike and Sunburst character development's during their search for the Pillars artifacts and throughout the 44min finale was done very well.  And surprisingly there was no musical numbers in this one, which I will (as good as some of the songs are throughout the series) admit is a welcomed bonus, because it allows the story to flow much smoother, and nothing feels rushed, so kudos for that.

I can also see, where some felt that this could have served better, story wise for the MLP Movie, than what we got instead, but hey both were very good in the end.

Now this does open doors for S8, S9, and S10 (which with the last two I believe we will get), and the stories and arcs that can be explored in those seasons, because of this finale.

 

Rating A+ 10/10

Comments and Replies are Welcomed.

 

 

[NightCloud 84]

This wasn't a bad finale, but wasn't one of my favorites.  One thing that bothered me was bringing Starswirl and the others to present time and keeping them there. These legendary figures (for me at least) kind of lose their mystery and sense of awe when Twilight just brings them all back with a spell (granted she had help).  I always enjoyed hearing about Starswirl, and even with some of the others in past episodes, and certainly would have enjoyed hearing more of their stories. But with all them in the present, some of that lore feels kind of lost now. Granted, I'm still curious as to how they will make appearances in the next season, and how they will be utilized. But some figures I'd like to have them remain in the past so that they only exist as stories, as legends. I like the wonderment and depth that goes alongside that. 

The focus on Starlight Glimmer somewhat bothered me as well. It wasn't so much that she was constantly being the voice of reason among-st everyone (though the resolution to the story became much more obvious as time went on because of it), but more-so how Twilight and the others ignored her. Specifically how Twilight ignored her, even after admitting that Starlight was right, she turned around and ignored her again. 

Those were my biggest issues with this finale. It wasn't too bad, but for me, it left something to be desired. As I said earlier, I'm curious to see how Starswirl and the others are utilized, but I also think the finale would have been much better if they would've had to put the legendaries back into limbo or somehow send them back for whatever reason. For me, that would have allowed these amazing ponies to be with us for a while and have a glimpse of them, but then having bigger things at play, the requirement to send them back to limbo (or where-ever) would have pushed them back into legend for everyone. Then it becomes like a glimpse of a beautiful star that you see in the sky only once before it vanishes into thin air, but the memory of the sighting brings out tales far and wide from different people who may have been touched by its beauty. It becomes larger than life, which is kind of how I would have liked these legendary ponies to remain. 

[bwrosas 252]

Liver Right Now to discuss this topic

[Thrond 3,263]

On 11/6/2017 at 9:54 PM, takai said:

She was the only one able to read the poorly written ponish? Really?

I think she just had an easier time reading his handwriting. It's been a while, so I don't remember clearly, but I think it might have been a joke about Starlight's handwriting being just as terrible?

23 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

If you think about it, it makes perfect sense for only SG to get it. The RM7 have their own experiences with facing villains. What was their most common method to defeat them? Blast them. Discord, NMM, Chrysalis (not by them), Sombra, Discord's vines, and Tirek were blasted with the physical Magic of Friendship. Starlight was never defeated; she was convinced to give friendship a second chance. As an ex-villain, she is more capable of looking at the conflict through the eyes of a villain than the others. She suspected there was more to the story than what the Pillars laid out. They explained their side, but SG was after the source of the conflict and Stygian's decision to the problem. Rather than a quick fix, she's after a real fix. Villains don't exist in a vacuum, and SG's a living example. Including the Cutie Map brings her into the story organically and humanizes the conflict.

While this is a perfectly sensible explanation for why this episode transpired as it did, I still found it hard to take because Starlight's personality has been flattened to nothing here, and we keep seeing her bringing up doubts. I don't feel Starlight has a consistent, satisfyingly developed personality, and here her defining trait is simply having the correct viewpoint, so even though this makes sense, I don't feel like it flows naturally from characterization. Okay, so you fucked up Starlight's characterization for two seasons in a row now. You can still fix it by having her pop in fully formed here. Instead, we get a story where the only wrong decisions she makes are not doing the right things soon enough, and because I find her so bland it all feels so forced. 

What doesn't make sense to me is 1. why Twilight wants Starswirl back in the first place, 2. that she'd be so dumb as to completely ignore Starlight's reasonable advice, and 3. that, once she starts to have doubts, she wouldn't use her authority as a princess to at least stall Starswirl a bit while they work things out.

If we were in Twilight's head rather than Starlight's, then I might not complain as much, because then I'd actually understand what motivates Twilight better, and might even have an easier time taking Starswirl's side of the story seriously. As is, I just feel like Twilight has been turned into an accessory for Starlight to prove herself, because the only empathy she's afforded is a few brief moments of glancing around uncertainly, and if the rest of the six show any doubt whatsoever, it's entirely in the background. Starlight is correct, and she needs to convince them to make the correct choice. I'm not here for that. 

And I'm not sure that "Cutie Map" and "organic" belong in the same sentence. 

23 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Correction. He's better than her. NMM's backstory was fascinating, but she's a stock villain. The PoS has a better backstory and is a better villain. Instead of leaving Stygian's backstory still in the premiere, they gradually build it in every scene, giving him and the Pillars more and more depth. The PoS is a bitter villain who fed on Stygian's anger, shame, and loneliness, and Stygian — basically a ponified Squib — welcomed him as an equal. Rather than blasting his bitterness and false sense of security (NMM) or destroying his old personality in favor of a fetishistic brainwashed version of him (Sunset), the episode validates his feelings by allowing him to fully explain what happened at Ponehenge, having both TS and SG talk to him as an equal, and pulling him out from the PoS's soul when his conscience plead for his escape.

I don't think the Pony of Shadows is exactly the same as Nightmare Moon, but I enjoyed Nightmare more as a fun, hammy villain with a surprisingly deep backstory, whereas the Pony of Shadows is a black ball of generic menace whom the show takes very, very, very seriously. I know everyone likes those flashbacks, but they felt like really broad strokes to me, and while Stygian is easily the most likeable of the "Pillars," we never got to know him well enough to care about him beyond his situation, which strikes me as kinda manipulative storytelling.

[Violet Bookish 350]

I'm late as usual but finally, I am able to write about the final. To start off, I have to be honest when I say I was not a big fan of all the legends in this season. I felt like they muddled the lore of Equestria and added so many questions that didn't seem like they'd be answered. Luckily, this final really made up for it. Not only did it make the legends fit nicely into the lore of Equestria, but it also finally showed Star Swirl. This dude has been mentioned so many times in the story and I was honestly getting rather annoyed that it didn't seem like the show would ever show him or explain more about his backstory. I am very glad this episode finally did that.

I really liked the presentation of all of the legends. Their characters were similar to the main six because they represented the same elements but yet, they were all very unique in their own way. The only issue I had was with Star Swirl, though as the episode goes on it makes sense why he acted the way he did. They were in a stressful situation and Star Swirl believed what he was doing was the right and only way which we later see is because he's trapped in the past. He hasn't had time to adjust to this world and this is the only correct and true answer he knows. It also makes sense why he wouldn't trust Twilight but the first impression he got of her was her bringing them back and not being able to undo her mistake despite her studies. I am very glad that despite who Star Swirl is, the other main six were so willing to stand up for Twilight. I was honestly expecting them to not say anything so I'm glad they did.

The other aspect I really liked was Starlight. Okay, let's be honest, when it comes to Twilight and magic err, annoyingly enough, especially for the finals, magic always solves the problem and unlike Starlight her consequences haven't been extremely destructive until now. I am very glad to see Starlight has taken her lessons to heart and realizes the destruction that using magic can cause. It was nice to see her be the voice of reason to Twilight who wasn't thinking straight. Even after Twilight makes a mistake, Starlight still continues being the voice of reason to both Twilight and Star Swirl which surprised me. It was nice to see the "banishing being the answer" deal which has happened so many times in the show was finally questioned. Banishing is the nice magically, easily, quick fix the show has been using for a very long time and it's nice to see that a villain finally was given a chance to be redeemed without banishing having to be the first step. Plus, it fit very well with this villain seeing as his efforts were simply completely misunderstood by the others.

Lastly, I liked the message. This episode taught how destructive it was to put so much faith into an idol to the point you don't even question the things they do and just go along with it. People aren't perfect and in no way is someone always going to make the right decision. Along with that, it's important to realize times change and solutions and teachings that worked long ago are not always the best solutions nowadays, and as for teachings either they've been improved or better ones have come along. Like for example, the power of friendship which was not the biggest concept back in Star Swirl's day which needed to be taught to him. I was very glad to see that Star Swirl is going to explore the new world before going back to teaching as there is a lot to learn about how Equestria is now if he really wants to be a good teacher. In short, I really liked how this episode was basically old ways/teachings vs new ways/teachings and showed how times have changed and things that once worked back when won't work that great nowadays and there are better solutions.

Overall this was a fantastic final! Not only did it add a lot to the lore, finally showed us Star Swirl, but it also had a great message and broke the mold from the formula of other finals. This was a great season and I can only hope next season is, if not as great, better. This final definitely gets an A+ from me.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Kreamer
Spelling and Grammar Errors

[Ganondox 899]

I like that the board icon has finally been updated. 

[heavens-champion 1,905]

As usual, people are complaining about Starlight. Let's be honest here, if they listened to Starlight, then Stygian wouldn't have been redeemed. If anything, Starlight simply played a role in saving the day, unlike in To Where And Back Again, where she saved the day by herself.

[ShootingStar159 2,156]

22 minutes ago, heavens-champion said:

As usual, people are complaining about Starlight. Let's be honest here, if they listened to Starlight, then Stygian wouldn't have been redeemed. If anything, Starlight simply played a role in saving the day, unlike in To Where And Back Again, where she saved the day by herself.

I don’t think it’s been that bad, I think I’ve seen more people complaining that Starlight didn’t get any credit at the end than people complaining about Starlight herself.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

19 minutes ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I don’t think it’s been that bad, I think I’ve seen more people complaining that Starlight didn’t get any credit at the end than people complaining about Starlight herself.

Right. Either way, it gets old fast. Oh well. The most we can do is ignore the complainers.

[KH7672 1,604]

3 hours ago, heavens-champion said:

As usual, people are complaining about Starlight.

 

3 hours ago, ShootingStar159 said:

I don’t think it’s been that bad, I think I’ve seen more people complaining that Starlight didn’t get any credit at the end than people complaining about Starlight herself.

That and as I've seen the fact that none of the other characters are considering her idea any good. When the character that is being ignored and ends up being right in the end it can come across as "this character is better than all the others who thought the right answer in the end was wrong." Every character had motivations and a thought process that made sense sure, but it still does seem kind of a deliberate choice.

However like you said:

3 hours ago, heavens-champion said:

Let's be honest here, if they listened to Starlight, then Stygian wouldn't have been redeemed.

If you want to get real technical, if they only listened to Starlight and not anypony else, they would be dead, or at least severely injured by the fully restored Pony of Shadows. Stygian was only able to be talked to, free of the Darkness's hold, because it was preoccupied with being sucked into the portal created by the Elements. Starlight's plan had no mention of the Elements so there was also going to be no way the Darkness could have been banished once Stygian was free too (which would have also been hard as it required the power of the Elements the pull him out as well). The unanswered question of how powerful is this Darkness is the key to most of the episode's sequence of events but probably the most frustrating thing about the episode as well as it's also the key to most of it's problems.

[heavens-champion 1,905]

4 minutes ago, KH7672 said:

 

That and as I've seen the fact that none of the other characters are considering her idea any good. When the character that is being ignored and ends up being right in the end it can come across as "this character is better than all the others who thought the right answer in the end was wrong." Every character had motivations and a thought process that made sense sure, but it still does seem kind of a deliberate choice.

However like you said:

If you want to get real technical, if they only listened to Starlight and not anypony else, they would be dead, or at least severely injured by the fully restored Pony of Shadows. Stygian was only able to be talked to, free of the Darkness's hold, because it was preoccupied with being sucked into the portal created by the Elements. Starlight's plan had no mention of the Elements so there was also going to be no way the Darkness could have been banished once Stygian was free too (which would have also been hard as it required the power of the Elements the pull him out as well). The unanswered question of how powerful is this Darkness is the key to most of the episode's sequence of events but probably the most frustrating thing about the episode as well as it's also the key to most of it's problems.

Technically, I meant, the Pillars of Old Equestria and the Pony of Shadows would still be trapped in Limbo if they listened to Starlight. But, yeah.

Edited November 13, 2017 by heavens-champion