a rant on earth pony magic vs the other races

[Ittoni 536]

I posted on the Unicorns are OP tread here and wanted to expand the analysis of magical abilities from the unicorns, pegasus and earth ponies since it's something i feel was not very explored on the earth pony side of the conversation. this is the complete post i wanted to share but i thought was more interesting as it's own thing so others can bring their own ideas and discuss. Also take in mind that i haven't been in the fandom for so long so if this is a theme that everyone already knows i apologize. 

 

As for now there's far more unicorns shown to be considered for the position of alicorn that any other race (which also must have a celestial related cutiemark). So i sense a bit of a preference and at the same time less opportunities for other races to be able to attain that status being earth ponies the less likely and the most forgotten even by the staff and the writers. Unicorns are more likely to be in power positions and have a lot of riches. 

There's a reason for why unicorns are a lot more popular with the fandom. I can assure you that almost 4 out of 10 chooses unicorn OC, 3 will choose pegasus, 2 alicorn, and 1 earth pony. And that's because unicorns have been shown in a better light in the world of equestria than any other race aside from twilight (and alicorn is not higher because of the whole marrysue issue but it would be number one otherwise). If the only thing you need to do is learn how to use magic ( which is also not as hard as it seems shown how starlight teaches Trixie how to transmogrify and teleport) then the only thing that is stopping unicorns to be the overlords is self control and not reading books.

It's true that some earth ponies have shown incredible strength but most of them have normal strength or even none at all (quibble pants), and the show hasn't even bothered to explain what is earth pony's ability commune with earth or how are they balanced out with the other races other than "if the others are not going to give us sun we will go on a strike and see how long they can survive without us working on the farm for their food", so umm... they have the power of mutiny? and there's far less prominent earth ponies too, either in power positions or doing cool jobs. They are more like the masses, the background, the "why be  the lame pony that can't fly and can't do magic".

it's kind of funny because of the rl parallels but i would like to leave social/economic/politics out, let's get back to ponies.

 

So yeah, I would say that unicorns are definitely OP in every sense.  But how would i fix earth ponies then? Do they actually have magic or not? is it true that they are stronger and that's their magical fair share?

I would say that they have a power that others dont have aside form being really good farmers and capable of being stronger (apparently, because we have seen that all unicorns use magic and all pegasusses can fly and control weather but not all earth ponies are strong or attuned to nature which is also damaging the reputation of earth ponies but whatever) and is probably something nor they nor any other has realized yet in the show....... and that's the power... of the fourth wall. No joking.

I've seen some people point it out but earth ponies seem to have a much better and more developed sixth sense and psychic powers (pinkie and maud being the twilight equivalent of the earth ponies). Applejack's ability to call shi*nnanigans are better sharpen than your katana but her problem is that no one listens to her. Pinkie and Maud, well they need no explanation but pinkie has the pinkie sense and maud has tracking sense to track the pony that bought pinkie's cannon, in fact all party ponies we have seen so far have some kind of fourth wall powers and or impossible transdimensional witchcraftery. Quibble's ability to predict the other's moves (even after the pony quidich fiasco which i attribute to him being nervous, you could argue that it was the almanaque what make him predict pinkie's moves but one thing is have a statistic and probability and the other is pretty much predict the future right there). Mudbriar can somehow create a mental plane digital library of memories (which apparently pinkie can actually see) for him to propose that Maud doesn't like parties and actually be right. Dr. Hooves, while still being background pony, he does dwell into things like science, quantum mechanics and metaphysics giving him an extraordinary connection to understanding the universe and how it works for him to exploit that, same with Zecora but from a different approach and to a lesser degree Applebloom being her apprentice with potions and understanding how to utilize that. Most earth ponies we have seen are more either farmers constructors, or musicians artists and entertainers, the first ones staying true to the strong attuned to nature earth pony, the last ones being a bit more interesting since it suggests that they their instincts are more developed to find and create harmonies or read other's feelings (be more sensitive to how others react) better to know what they need (also... I was under the impression that it was Vinil Scratch's music that created that magic sound wave in A Horse Shoe In, but what it was Octavia's "magic"), kinda like what Treehugger does. The post pony somehow managed to get into Discord's dimension and get out. Doble Diamond is the first one to notice something off with the main six in Ourtown for him to suspect them. 

Of course i could be reading a lot more that what the show intents to communicate about earth ponies, but if i would like to suggest a power that they could have without straying much form the canon and that could balance them out with the other races is that. being capable of becoming very strong with less effort than the other races and with a lot more payoff (just look at Rockhoof, I would suggest that it was earth pony magic what granted him instant strength in a dire situation), a higher connection to a sixth sense (to either call shenanigans, "predict" the future, or have a special connection to sense harmony and disharmony), and metaphysical/weird inexplicable dimensional powers (like pinkie and cheese, and probably mudbrair and post pony).

That way unicorns can have their op magic, pegasus can fly and control weather having earth ponies have more extrasensorial magic and strength that would fit right in with their attune to nature shtick. It also fits well with the passive magic they might have with some flare magic like the super strength which we have seen, and those weird spacial jumps which some ponies can totally master like pinkie.

On those like i also have the theory, each race of ponies are connected to certain elements of harmony specifically. Earth ponies to laughter and kindness, pegasus to loyalty and honesty, and unicorns to magic and generosity. So to master their racial powers they have to be more connected to their corresponding element. like all party ponies.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Ittoni

[Pentium100 2,057]

I guess it could work. The reason why earth ponies are not as popular usually is that their magic works only if you are a farmer, while the unicorn magic works to aid whatever your talent is and flying is just cool.

However, even with the extrasensorial magic like you propose, I'd still choose unicorn, as their magic is more useful day-to-day (pretty much everyone can use levitation to carry things etc). Of course alicorn is even better if such a choice is available. 

[CypherHoof 26,479]

I have always just assumed Earth Pony magic works only on themselves, Pegasus Magic is wingpower (which can be extended to things they are carrying) and unicorn magic is limited to just a few spells per pony (usually)

That said, PINKIE is an earth pony and... yeah.

[Latecomer 438]

31 minutes ago, Ittoni said:

 

I already answered the first half of this on the other thread, and I agreed with you that earthpony magic was underdefined. I don't really agree with the "fourth wall" idea though - it isn't really prevalent in more than a few. It's possible they don't have a universal ability any more than they have a signature organ, just a higher frequency of individual "freak" abilities.

[Ittoni 536]

31 minutes ago, Pentium100 said:

I guess it could work. The reason why earth ponies are not as popular usually is that their magic works only if you are a farmer, while the unicorn magic works to aid whatever your talent is and flying is just cool.

However, even with the extrasensorial magic like you propose, I'd still choose unicorn, as their magic is more useful day-to-day (pretty much everyone can use levitation to carry things etc). Of course alicorn is even better if such a choice is available. 

Well that comes down to personal preference and that's just fine.

[Brony Number 42 9,934]

Interesting. I never thought that earth ponies had actual magic, but since magic exists in the world maybe they have access to it. Maybe unicorns are just really good at it. Their horns are like an antenna. Earth ponies spend all their time in the ground so they can tap into magic a little. Pegasi don't spend as much time in the ground so they don't tap into it.

[Latecomer 438]

1 minute ago, Spooky Brony 42 said:

Interesting. I never thought that earth ponies had actual magic, but since magic exists in the world maybe they have access to it. Maybe unicorns are just really good at it. Their horns are like an antenna. Earth ponies spend all their time in the ground so they can tap into magic a little. Pegasi don't spend as much time in the ground so they don't tap into it.

All ponies have magic - it's how cutie marks work, for instance. Unicorns' horns and pegasus wings give their owners extra powers on top of that. The question is whether earthponies have anything like that.

[Brony Number 42 9,934]

1 minute ago, Latecomer said:

All ponies have magic - it's how cutie marks work, for instance. Unicorns' horns and pegasus wings give their owners extra powers on top of that. The question is whether earthponies have anything like that.

Yeah but when a unicorn uses telekinesis or teleport, and an earth pony gets jealous, it is condescending for the unicorn to say, "well you have magic too. The magic of friendship."  Come on, gimmee some of that teleport.

[Latecomer 438]

2 minutes ago, Spooky Brony 42 said:

Yeah but when a unicorn uses telekinesis or teleport, and an earth pony gets jealous, it is condescending for the unicorn to say, "well you have magic too. The magic of friendship."  Come on, gimmee some of that teleport.

To be fair, 90+% of unicorns will never teleport either. And both of them can look on a soaring pegasus with envy.

But in the end, the magic of friendship is probably the more important one. (Especially the magic of being friends with unicorns.)

[Splashee 28,537]

4 minutes ago, Spooky Brony 42 said:

Yeah but when a unicorn uses telekinesis or teleport, and an earth pony gets jealous, it is condescending for the unicorn to say, "well you have magic too. The magic of friendship."  Come on, gimmee some of that teleport.

Just to expand on that. in the season 8 finale (two parter), Pinkie Pie has the ability to "teleport" inside Tirek's cage, multiple times.

 

I believe there is a complete balance between the pony races. It all worked out just fine until that Twilight got wings and was forced into romance with that dude.

[Latecomer 438]

1 minute ago, Splashee said:

Just to expand on that. in the season 8 finale (two parter), Pinkie Pie has the ability to "teleport" inside Tirek's cage, multiple times.

 

I believe there is a complete balance between the pony races. It all worked out just fine until that Twilight got wings and was forced into romance with that dude.

Pinkie Pie is Pinkie Pie - I don't think most of what she does has much to do with being an earthpony.

And balance was hardly better in the early seasons.

[Ittoni 536]

22 minutes ago, Splashee said:

Just to expand on that. in the season 8 finale (two parter), Pinkie Pie has the ability to "teleport" inside Tirek's cage, multiple times.

 

I believe there is a complete balance between the pony races. It all worked out just fine until that Twilight got wings and was forced into romance with that dude.

Also to complement that, Maud has seen "teleporting" without the use of magic. And Starlight's dad, while not an earth pony (but one can make an exception with one unicorn) also has used this kind of "teleport", which from now on i will refer to as appearify, without any use of magic and in front of Starlight with her seeing him directly and suddenly him appearifying behind her, which confirms the existence of this kind of abilities without magic. (i would like to think he kinda learned how to do it from and earth pony but that's my headcanon).

Edited October 5, 2019 by Ittoni

[Splashee 28,537]

3 hours ago, Ittoni said:

apparently, because we have seen that all unicorns use magic and all pegasusses can fly

Sorry for this, but Chancellor Neighsay doesn't really use his own magic. And Scootaloo can't fly.

Still I took that quote out of context. I still wanted to bring that up.

[BornAgainBrony 2,395]

26 minutes ago, Spooky Brony 42 said:

Yeah but when a unicorn uses telekinesis or teleport, and an earth pony gets jealous, it is condescending for the unicorn to say, "well you have magic too. The magic of friendship."  Come on, gimmee some of that teleport.

I've always seen it as being about where the magic is focused. For Pegusi it's the wings. Unicorns, the horns. Earthponies, the legs. Earthponies more specifically, the flashiest form of this magic is super-strength. Big Mac smashed through the front gate of Canterlot palace by himself! And just imagine the kind of energy control it would take to kick a tree hard enough to make every one of its apples fall, while leaving not even the slightest blemish on its trunk. This isn't just brute strength. And that kind of power isn't just useful for farmers but the majority of industry.  Smithing/forging, construction, demolition, mining, etc. But perhaps more generally this could be seen as Earth magic, because they have a certain affinity for things like argraculture, herbalism, geology, etc. I'm sure it was implied somewhere in the show as well that the other races wouldn't be able to work the land as well as Earth Ponies, even after decades of practice.

[Latecomer 438]

Just now, Splashee said:

Sorry for this, but Chancellor Neighsay doesn't really use his own magic. And Scootaloo can't fly.

Still I took that quote out of context. I still wanted to bring that up.

I'm pretty sure Neighsay is a strong mage in his own right. The average unicorn in the other hand mostly just floats things. And there probably a few who can't cast at all.

1 minute ago, BornAgainBrony said:

I've always seen it as being about where the magic is focused. For Pegusi it's the wings. Unicorns, the horns. Earthponies, the legs. Earthponies more specifically, the flashiest form of this magic is super-strength. Big Mac smashed through the front gate of Canterlot palace by himself! And just imagine the kind of energy control it would take to kick a tree hard enough to make every one of its apples fall, while leaving not even the slightest blemish on its trunk. This isn't just brute strength. And that kind of power isn't just useful for farmers but the majority of industry.  Smithing/forging, construction, demolition, mining, etc. But perhaps more generally this could be seen as Earth magic, because they have a certain affinity for things like argraculture, herbalism, geology, etc. I'm sure it was implied somewhere in the show as well that the other races wouldn't be able to work the land as well as Earth Ponies, even after decades of practice.

Both strength and agriculture have been associated with earthponies, but not exclusively.

[Ittoni 536]

Just now, Splashee said:

Sorry for this, but Chancellor Neighsay doesn't really use his own magic. And Scootaloo can't fly.

Still I took that quote out of context. I still wanted to bring that up.

exceptions to the rule are always a thing and i'm actually glad we have them too, but broadly speaking they still have something that their race gives them, like chancellor Neighsay being able to control the amulet at all and cast magic through his horn, or scootaloo standing on clouds which is still pegasus magic. Again with my example of Quibble, he might not have strength at all and could be considered an exception but he could still have higher sense just like other earth ponies (if this is actually a thing that is).

[Splashee 28,537]

1 minute ago, Ittoni said:

exceptions to the rule are always a thing and i'm actually glad we have them too, but broadly speaking they still have something that their race gives them, like chancellor Neighsay being able to control the amulet at all and cast magic through his horn, or scootaloo standing on clouds which is still pegasus magic. Again with my example of Quibble, he might not have strength at all and could be considered an exception but he could still have higher sense just like other earth ponies (if this is actually a thing that is).

But this is the exact point I want to raise. The exceptions for the rules, make for more interesting characters!

The base, you have 3 pony races, and yes, one of them doesn't have a wing or a horn. But the show always compensate with interesting stuff that gives us (the viewer) hope that no matter who you are born into, you are good at something, or meant to do something. I think it is a key to why we like this show so much.

Earth Pony (being one myself) has a lot of potential to be absolutely anything in the world of Equestria, and kinda get away with it. If a Pegasus that only uses her wings for transportation and nothing else, Cozy Glow almost erased all the magic from Equestria, even forcing Princess Celestia and Princess Luna to walk (you do see that if you pause at the right moment). Cozy Glows ability to be cute and adorable, and using that for manipulation of others, is something that an Earth Pony can also achieve.

But when we start talking about Unicorns, and Alicorns, then we have Twilight Sparkle, and her brother, and Princess Cadance, all being written without much though, giving them uneven magic abilities (sometimes just laser beams, sometimes teleportation, sometimes being completely useless even as a guard when supposed to be the best at that, Mr Shining Armor!). Sometimes it is hard to understand why Twilight, just because of magic power, must be in the center of everyone. I will only dwell on this once I have seen the entire Season 9 (no spoilers!)

[Latecomer 438]

5 minutes ago, Splashee said:

Sometimes it is hard to understand why Twilight, just because of magic power, must be in the center of everyone. I will only dwell on this once I have seen the entire Season 9 (no spoilers!)

I don't actually think Twilight being the leader is due to her magical power - rather, both are down to her being the main protagonist. But she could probably have been the leader even if she was an earthpony.

[Splashee 28,537]

5 minutes ago, Latecomer said:

I don't actually think Twilight being the leader is due to her magical power - rather, both are down to her being the main protagonist. But she could probably have been the leader even if she was an earthpony.

That is a good point. I never thought about that.

 

You know, for G5, they should do that (lol, you will come back one day and say, "How did you know that, Splashee?")

[Ittoni 536]

40 minutes ago, Splashee said:

But this is the exact point I want to raise. The exceptions for the rules, make for more interesting characters!

The base, you have 3 pony races, and yes, one of them doesn't have a wing or a horn. But the show always compensate with interesting stuff that gives us (the viewer) hope that no matter who you are born into, you are good at something, or meant to do something. I think it is a key to why we like this show so much.

Earth Pony (being one myself) has a lot of potential to be absolutely anything in the world of Equestria, and kinda get away with it. If a Pegasus that only uses her wings for transportation and nothing else, Cozy Glow almost erased all the magic from Equestria, even forcing Princess Celestia and Princess Luna to walk (you do see that if you pause at the right moment). Cozy Glows ability to be cute and adorable, and using that for manipulation of others, is something that an Earth Pony can also achieve.

But when we start talking about Unicorns, and Alicorns, then we have Twilight Sparkle, and her brother, and Princess Cadance, all being written without much though, giving them uneven magic abilities (sometimes just laser beams, sometimes teleportation, sometimes being completely useless even as a guard when supposed to be the best at that, Mr Shining Armor!). Sometimes it is hard to understand why Twilight, just because of magic power, must be in the center of everyone. I will only dwell on this once I have seen the entire Season 9 (no spoilers!)

i think that is cool too! that everyone can be anything, but one cool aspect of the races is that they are different and awesome in their own right by being different, and since we have a LOT of examples with powerful unicorns, a bit less but enough with pegasus, and barely any with earth ponies (as a race i mean, not individual talents) if there were examples at all that and as clear with their special abilities, one can just speculate what makes an earth pony cool too when it comes to magic and special abilities that come with the race and how to exploit them in a balanced manner with the other races (being my changeling's prefered form an earth pony too), which is kinda what they sold us from the start, that all of them have the same potential and balance themselves out because they are all different and can do certain magic that comes with their race aside from what all of them can do as individuals. Otherwise we couldn't have a fluttlershy for example, that can work with animals and understand them (a very earth pony thing actually since it's nature and communication with the land, or more direct example would be winter wrap up, the earth pony way) but also she can have her unique pegasus magic natural of her race. the problem is that we don't see this clearly with even one earth pony aside from applejack and her family, all other earth ponies are not really shown doing something related to their magic as a race, as something they ALL can do. Even crystal ponies were not that muddy with the explaining of their magic and we better got a clear example of what all of them can do as part of their race.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Ittoni

[Landi 597]

It does seem like Earth Ponies are getting the short end of the stick. From what I've seen, I think that its pretty much fact that they have a connection to Earth. But apart from that, I really am not sure what else they have. I fell like ideas like extra strength and extra senses are more like fan theories than actual canon. They were most likely put into the show without the intent on being an Earth Pony exclusive ability. But, despite the seeming lack of power, Earth Ponies are still doing well for themselves. They get by fine without magic and flight and do have some prominent figures.

The real issue with them is just that the show itself doesn't really seem to care much about them. Like what people have said, the show has never really specifically emphasized what the extent of their powers is. This is really just because they don't care which is unfortunate; especially considering that they like to give the Unicorns seemingly infinite power and utilization.

1 hour ago, Spooky Brony 42 said:

Yeah but when a unicorn uses telekinesis or teleport, and an earth pony gets jealous, it is condescending for the unicorn to say, "well you have magic too. The magic of friendship."  Come on, gimmee some of that teleport.

Although I'm pretty sure that ,most Earth Ponies get by fine, I could see some being jealous of Unicorns. Maybe they feel cheated by the system, like they are getting shafted. This idea is an interesting concept for an episode conflict or something along those lines.

[Ittoni 536]

51 minutes ago, Landi72 said:

But apart from that, I really am not sure what else they have. I fell like ideas like extra strength and extra senses are more like fan theories than actual canon. 

The real issue with them is just that the show itself doesn't really seem to care much about them.

Oh yeah! that's for sure!

But that's exactly the reason of why i felt compelled to find a half baked alternative, because the show didn't really cared to expand on it or give earth ponies much love and it feels like it goes against what the show tries to sell as concept but fails to deliver giving unicorns way more advantages over the other two, even more with earth ponies. It feels more like condescending like Spooky says, leaving us to find our own explanations and hopeful desires, or headcanons if you will to actually find a balance. because saying "everyone can achieve anything even if you are an earth pony" is accepting they are magically crippled and actually not equal to the other two.

is not canon though. as for the canon, earth ponies are farmers, somehow... because reasons.

Edited October 5, 2019 by Ittoni

[Landi 597]

54 minutes ago, Ittoni said:

Oh yeah! that's for sure!

But that's exactly the reason of why i felt compelled to find a half baked alternative, because the show didn't really cared to expand on it or give earth ponies much love and it feels like it goes against what the show tries to sell as concept but fails to deliver giving unicorns way more advantages over the other two, even more with earth ponies. It feels more like condescending like Spooky says, leaving us to find our own explanations and hopeful desires, or headcanons if you will to actually find a balance. because saying "everyone can achieve anything even if you are an earth pony" is accepting they are magically crippled and actually not equal to the other two.

is not canon though. as for the canon, earth ponies are farmers, somehow... because reasons.

Yes, exactly!

And I feel like it has just been getting worse overtime. Throughout the show Unicorns have been given more and more and Earth Ponies are just given the shaft. Pegasus abilities have been shown a descent amount, but the Pegasi themselves seem to be pretty underrepresented and underutilized. But back to what I was saying, the show itself doesn't do a good job at all in making the three pony races equal. So yeah, I agree.

[Cwanky 17,459]

While I do agree with many of the biases and inconsistencies towards and against earth ponies, the problems are equally as much owing to the lack of earth pony main characters as it is an overemphasis, and hence bias for unicorns, considering the "protagonist" Twilight is a unicorn. It will be interesting to see how things change with this shift in Generation 5, where each group has their own planet and may be separate races, and whether earth ponies are still treated as average to subpar Joes and Janes, or if they actually get more unique abilities and other talents.

It's easier if it's viewed from the traditional fantasy to compare the 3 races and their respective traits.

Here unicorns would definitely fit generically as wizards and mages. They rely and can heavily use magic. Barring some of the more ridiculous abilities like long distance teleportation, shooting energy bolts, generating barriers, telekinesis and short distance teleportation are generally found at low levels including in MMOs like World of Warcraft and Runescape. From this perspective these abilities aren't that powerful.

Pegasi, with their speed, agility and minus their flight, would likely be rogues, or perhaps even hunters. They're fast, flexible and can even be stealthy, like when Rainbow pranks others with nimbus clouds. I'd even wager to say they are quite dexterous, perhaps not as a racial trait, but culturally due to their tendency to fly, move and stay physically active.

Earth ponies, minus the connection to the land, are generally strong, hardy, and dexterous. We see these traits manifested in the farmers, but also in Applejack and Pinkie (whose more dexterous than strong, but she's unique ). In a fantasy combat setting they're definitely warriors and hunters even. They pack the punch and are quite handy , no pun intended.

 

3 hours ago, Spooky Brony 42 said:

Interesting. I never thought that earth ponies had actual magic, but since magic exists in the world maybe they have access to it. Maybe unicorns are just really good at it. Their horns are like an antenna. Earth ponies spend all their time in the ground so they can tap into magic a little. Pegasi don't spend as much time in the ground so they don't tap into it.

All ponies, and perhaps all creatures, have magic of some sort. Go rewatch Twilight's Kingdom again in Season 4. Tirek went outta his way to individually drain each pony race of their magic. That's basically his power: draining magic from others, which he did again to earth ponies when the villains visited Canterlot. Also this from Part 1 of Twilight's Kingdom:

Twilight Sparkle: How could he do this?! I thought our friendship meant something to him! I thought he had changed.

Princess Celestia: Tirek has stolen enough magic that he now has the strength to steal flight as well. Without Pegasi to control the weather, there will be no rain in Equestria. There is word he has gone after Earth ponies as well. Without their strength, they will not be able to tend the land.

 

https://mlp.fandom.com/wiki/Transcripts/Twilight's_Kingdom_-_Part_1

Celestia pretty much here confirms that earth pony strength is no myth, it's actually tied to their magic and connection to the land, just as pegasi are tied to the weather, sky and their agility and speed.

Now while, the abilities aren't absolute for a race, they certainly do seem to consistently apply. The majority of farmers and food related workers are earth ponies. In fact I can't recall the last unicorn or pegasus farmer in the show.

With all that said, I am neither suggesting earth ponies are adequately or underpowered. But from different perspectives they aren't as weak and disadvantaged as we may think. They are, however, pretty poorly underdeveloped and defined, much as zebras, griffons, dragons and every other nonpony race sadly seems to be .  Hopefully with the protagonist, Twilight, allegedly being an earth pony in Generation 5, they actually see better development and details on their abilities.

[Latecomer 438]

6 hours ago, Cwanky said:

the problems are equally as much owing to the lack of earth pony main characters as it is an overemphasis, and hence bias for unicorns,

Can someone please point out where there are not about as many of one as the other among our leads?

Also, one obvious analogy that hasn't been drawn is the Three Estates (Priests, warriors  and commoners), especially as regarding the historical situation.